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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:59:24 AM | The problems we see are a result of a long history of issues out of the entire middle east, not just Iraq. Go back beyond the Persian Empire and Roman Empire if you wish. Follow through with the crusades, colonialism, WWII, the creation of Israel, etc. Our issues do not just involve "Iraq", "Iran", Saudi Arabia" etc. These "states" were created over the centuries by wars and conquest that predate even the known existence of the American continents much less US profiteering and interference. The attacks on 9.11 were not some singular starting point or event. They are symptoms of cultural clashes that are hardly different from any other species on this beautiful scum covered ball of magma.
If you can see well beyond your nose, consider what cultural characteristics should prevail. This is difficult for those who cannot see the forest for trees in front of them but does reduce the "anger" so many people over the immediate issues in their minds.
For those with really short memories, here is a summary:
Saddam, as many empowered dictators in human history do, had complete control of his own country so he set his sights on expansion. He tried Iran without much success so how about little Kuwait? Bush 1 did not specifically say we would react after all, we didn't do squat over his Iran efforts so he attacked Kuwait. Kuwait supplied a lot of US oil so nope, we won't allow it. Gulf war one but the pictures of the destruction of the convoy of looters was politically bad so no "punishment" for Saddam. He slowly began to test our resolve to enforce the cease fire agreement and found no backbone. This lack of backbone also showed up in the African embassy bombings, the Saudi building bombing, the Somalia debacle, and finally the Cole attack where our entire reaction was shooting million dollar missiles at empty mud huts in Afghanistan. Finally, the spineless Clinton admin was done and Bush 2 took over with a promise of disengagement in the Middle East. Emboldment by all this led to the 9/11 attack on the symbols of western culture. Despite Bush 2 vaunted lack of intelligence, he learned we cannot ignore a middle east empowered by huge oil profits as cultural clashes are human nature. Afghanistan was not the only front in the cultural clash as Saddam was still testing our resolve so Bush 2 chose to act there as well. It went pretty well until Brenner took over and made two huge blunders ordering the dismantling of the Iraq governing structure and the Iraq military. These people knew their jobs and they were not Saddam. They were people doing their jobs. Bush 2's biggest failure is his political loyalty over reason and just like he did with Brown and FEMA, he stuck by his people instead of firing them when he should have. So here we are, the cultural war continues.
So where do we go from here? I would suggest everybody examine their own cultural values. Are you willing to accept a fascist culture based on a religion or do you value democratic values perhaps tempered with individual civil rights? This cultural clash will continue no matter what your choice. If you are intimidated by tactics and willing to roll over well, you have my pity. If you extend this roll over to political activism, they you get my anger as you have by default allied yourself against my values. At the same time, if you justify some other brand of religious fascism wrapped in a democratic flag, you get my anger as well. Come on folks, look at the forest, not just the trees. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/30/2008 9:12:17 AM | Some Americans seem to forget how secular and advanced Iraq was compared to heir great allie Saudi Arabia.
Saddam was contained and nto hurting anybody, there was no reason to invade. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/30/2008 9:22:31 AM |
Gulf war one but the pictures of the destruction of the convoy of looters was politically bad so no "punishment" for Saddam.
A popular urban myth, that forgets these words.
Cheney, 1994, explaining why Iraq was not invaded during Desert Storm.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a8_1186873756
George Bush Sr. , explaining the same thing.
"Why We Didn't Remove Saddam"
George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft
Time (2 March 1998)
While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs.
Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/2003/0419reasonsnot.htm
You'll notice what both men said then was what actually occurred when Iraq WAS invaded,
Who knew ? | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 5/27/2008 8:12:01 AM |
I have no time for anybody who acts as if serving in the military puts somebody above others.
Then you will probably get, nor deserve any respect, from anyone who has been there, and done that.
Even tho I dont support our so called war in Iraq,....I will support their efforts, and their right to speak their minds on any subject matter,....
At least our "OP" has found a way to express his views,..without raising the hackles of his superiours,...hopefully,...something thats very few,..get to do.
First off,...the very first words from you, are,...... "Go to hell",......in responce to another poster,......shows lack of taste, and maturity on your part.
You seem to fancy yourself as being either an ,....A**hole, or a genuis",.....I wouldnt count on the latter,......
Out of consideration for others, and their feelings,...you,..can try to be a triffling more Polite,.....then maybe people will take you seriously,..instead of looking at YOU, as an armchair warrior that is just blowing hot air.
There,..are a lot of military personal, that has been involved in Iraq,...and ARE involved in Iraq,..and they dont feel we, the US, has any business being there.
Thats their opinion, and They, are entitled to it,....YOU,..are just an afterthought. | |
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