NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 26 | |
| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/27/2008 9:37:50 PM | | CAN the US ever "go bust"?? Like a busted-out mega corporation for instance? Is that even possible?? What would it take for that to happen? Would the World Bank or IMF or whatever step in and "reorganize" them as they have done with other countries? I'm not an economist , far from it, so.......anyone with any informed opinions on that I for one would be interested. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 5:53:16 PM | ^^ the big question is the Federal Reserve, which of course is NOT part of the government -- privately owned ^^ BIG IMPACT.
Some politicians (and a whole lotta people) want to do away with the National Reserve Bank (the biggest argument being not having to pay federal taxes) ... I'd like to hear more thoughts/know more on that subject and the consequences since the Federal Reserve impacts nationally, and our money is not based on ore -- only a agreement that paper has worth. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 7:03:18 PM | U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 29 Apr 2008 at 01 08 AM GMT is:
9,339,310,816,304.81 (that's 9 trillion plus)
The estimated population of the United States is 303,894,085
so each citizen's share of this debt is $30,732.78.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.44 billion per day since September 29, 2006!
So assumeing a family of 4.......you would owe 122,931.12
Your interest on this for one year is about 4917.00 at .04 %
Besides that the value of the Dollar has declined since Bush came to office from a value of about 1.20 compaired to other currency to the present of about .72 or a decline of 40 % in value in relation to other currency.
Spend more than you take in and your value goes down......simple economics.
Blow money on war and non-productive expense without offsetting income from manufactureing and production....and you go broke eventually. The problem does'nt hit home until everyone decides they no longer have faith in your ability to manage. It's a wonder this has not happened already.......massive government waste and mismanagement without building intrastructure or createing more value in the physical assets of the country. More money leaveing the country for oil and imports of foriegn goods.
Federal Reserve just adding more to the problem by extending credit to uncreditworthy institutions and putting additional paper money into circulation. Inflationary, monetizeing of the debt.....it has gone on this way too long....but no one wants the alternative......down markets and declineing values of assets.....to equalize the system.... | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 29 | |
| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 7:19:36 PM | | ^^^ So they probably CAN'T actually afford to go to war with Iran for example.....I mean literally afford it......think of what Iraq alone is costing, per week!! How can they keep it up at that pace???? | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 7:26:01 PM | | Oh.......well.......we have an entire paid army and navy and airforce that mainly do nothing but train for war and fire practice rounds.....does'nt cost much more to actually fight a war.........just a few more lost american boys and girls.....and then the weapons companies can make new advanced weaponry and charge the taxpayers more......it keeps the population employed and is actually a large part of our economy. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 7:56:40 PM | ^^^...couple that with a hear and now housing crisis and looming food disturbances...all combine into a perfect storm that spells military dictatorship.....democratically "elected"...
....of course....  | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 8:04:22 PM | xNEROx, the only money that really goes out of the country is for Iraqi reconstruction, but even then, it is American companies doing it.
The money is really a big transfer from taxpayers to private military suppliers and service providers. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 8:21:13 PM | It's not about what the country will do to, it more about what WE the people are going to do to stop a world government from establishing control over our freedom, population, food, shelter & health.
THE SECRET GOVERNMENT (BILDERBERG GROUP) THAT CONTROLS OUR PUPPET GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN PLANNING THIS & THEY WANT YOU TO LIVE OFF OF CREDIT CARDS UNTIL YOUR BROKE. THAT WAY WHEN THEY SECRETLY ORDER A MASS BANK COLAPSE, THEY WILL LEGALLY BE ABLE TO SEIZE ALL OF YOUR POSSESSIONS LEGALLY. IT IS NO ACCIDENT THAT THE PRICES ARE ALL GOING UP. YOU MUST NOT LET FEAR GET IN THE WAY OF PROTECTING YOUR BASIC RIGHTS. INFORM YOURSELF , EDUCATE OTHERS & THEN UNITE. THAT IS HOW WE WILL FIGHT THE AGENDA THAT HAS BEEN PRE DETERMINED FOR US.
FREEDOM & OUR BASIC RIGHTS THAT WERE FOUGHT FOR & ESTABLISHED ARE IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY.
WAKE UP!!! WHAT ARE WE ALL GOING TO DO?
PLEASE GO TO THE FOLLOWING LINK & WATCH ESOTERIC AGENDA & GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS.
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts9843608.aspx
Question Everything,
dvotd2dm | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 8:46:45 PM | """oh, yes, we also have the $10 trillion in long term national debt from this Bush administration.""""
These words of wisdom were in the opening post. Care to expound as to how the current president could be responsible for the entire national debt.Remember now its the national debt,which by nature is an accumulation of "all" prior years deficit`s..... | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 8:57:33 PM | According to the "National Debt clock" (you can google it)
The National debt has increased from just under 6 trillion to over 9 trillion during the Bush administration.......so Bush is only responsible for about 1/3 of the entire national debt. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/28/2008 9:04:10 PM | steven02151...
...the only money that really goes out of the country is for Iraqi reconstruction, but even then, it is American companies doing it.
Not quite true...the companies are sub-contracting to other companies, who in turn sub-contract to others....each taking a slice of the money until there is no money left to do any meaningful reconstruction.
I'm beginning to think the debt, the housing collapse, the food scare, the wars, and the general fear mongering are deliberate and calculated steps to ensure that the control of world events are another step to solidify the corporate control over every aspect of individuals lives to their own betterment.
It is certain these attempts have been made in the past, some with limited success, but they are learning. With governments that now hand over regulatory processes to corporations, it's know wonder they control which countries win and which fail....offices and people can be moved or removed....it matters not a wit.
"Greed is good"
Gordon Gecko | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:16:06 AM | You asked if the USA can ever go bankrupt.....
The quick answer is no - at least not in the short term. In addition to the ability to keep printing money from the federal reserve, some of its biggest trading partners are keeping the dollar from depreciating buying treasury bills. China for example is helping to keep the us economy afloat because it needs americans to keep buying from china.
In the long run, yes is the answer. Because as soon as the world finds another source of consumer spending, say 1 billion in india or 1 billion in china, they don't need the american consumer anymore. They'll dump their remaining treasury bills (as they would be migrating to the euro over time), and its cya later usa. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:46:16 AM | xNEROx, no, we can't "afford" to war with Iran..........but.........did ya notice that Shell and Exxon et al are making big, big bucks despite the.....ah....oil crisis? Every time there are "jitters" or it's "summer" or it's not summer or whatever .....supply concerns! the barrel of oil is bid up! money is put into oil hedge funds and driven up, up, up!
So we can bomb those reactors, create a hell of a mess like Israel did in Lebanon, and just walk away. And then .........supply concerns! bid up the barrel, we'll have a barrel of fun, bid up the barrel, we'll have a barrel of fun .........$200 a barrel, do I hear $250? $300? Do I hear $10.00 a gallon at the pump?
The Big Oil boys are positioned to make big, big bucks now and in the future.......and Iran has got to be the biggest jackpot of all. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:51:04 AM | feedem, where did you hear that there was a 6 trillion debt, perchance?
When bush took office, we had a $500 billion or so SURPLUS from the Clinton Administration.
A surplus.
We went from a $500 billion surplus, NO NATIONAL DEBT, to a $9 trillion debt....and the interest on that, say 10%, could be as much as $90 trillion.
Everyone born now is born into financial SLAVERY because they will be paying this debt down all their lives ...........and not have any benefit from it or any choice. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:04:11 AM | There was only a small surplus for one or two years with Clinton....those are yearly surplus figures....not the entire national debt......( google "National debt clock" and you will find a graph )
Americans will be paying interest on the debt, but currently bond rates are in the 4 % area, and inflation is running about the same........therefore if you are buying govt bonds you are going nowhere.....probably can't collect enough interest from the govt. to offset inflation. So, people don't save money....they keep it spent because saving is not profitable......However buying items that depreciate is worse, and most things depreciate. Elaborate retirement accounts have been in use to delay taxes on income but there is no guarantee of the tax rate when the retirement money is needed.
The American economy is no different from Enron or Bear Stearns.....when people loose confidence in the system.......it will collapse in days.......not even weeks will transpire......the Arabs and Chinese back away and we can't do anything but print massive amounts of paper money and it triggers hyper inflation........your savings and property become virtually worthless as the tax rates accelerate........and now that the fed has used up so much credit.....there is not much room for them to manuver further. Watch out when nobody can pay their credit card bills because of high fuel prices and food prices and house payments and health costs and insurance, heating and cooling, cell phone, direct TV.....Starbucks......geesh.....what a system. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:28:47 PM | dvotd2dm, thank you for supplying this link ... to the other link (esoteric agenda)
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts9843608.aspx
I appreciate the efforts it must have t aken to consolidation this information ...
I wonder how many people will take the time to view the entire video before forming an opinion -- the latter portion of the video addresses most of the expected rebuttals -- I just wonder if most will even get it that section.
Youtube breaks the video into sections presumeably for easier viewing. It's a lot to take in for anyone who has never been exposed to ANY of the information offered.
At any rate, thanks dvotd2dm, for sharing. More power to the people  | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 43 | |
| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:59:50 PM | QUOTE: The American economy is no different from Enron or Bear Stearns.....when people loose confidence in the system.......it will collapse in days.......not even weeks will transpire......the Arabs and Chinese back away and we can't do anything but print massive amounts of paper money and it triggers hyper inflation........your savings and property become virtually worthless as the tax rates accelerate........and now that the fed has used up so much credit.....there is not much room for them to manuver further. Watch out when nobody can pay their credit card bills because of high fuel prices and food prices and house payments and health costs and insurance, heating and cooling, cell phone, direct TV.....Starbucks......geesh.....what a system.
^^^ Yes, I think they might run the boat ashore , or at least into a pretty good sandbar  one of these years coming up. It doesn't feel like it can go on at this same kind of rate forever. Gas prices going up, as you said, the basic costs of living so high, many peoples' home values down (at least for now), or even in danger of losing their homes, etc etc. And that's just on the domestic front.
Internationally, I have heard before (not sure if it's true or not) that Saudi Arabia for example has a few trillion dollars , give or take, tied into the US economy. If they were to pull that all out, not to mention if they were to tighten up the spigots on the oil (I know, not our most important supplier but still a big one nonetheless) the result would be a nightmare. Actually now I recall; it was in the book, "Sleeping With the Devil", by former CIA agent Robert Baer. He said about 1 or 2 of every 6 US $'s Americans spend at the pumps basically winds up going towards Saudi State Security; in other words, as he put it , towards "keeping royal heads attached to royal shoulders". Baer said in that book what amounts to , basically, due to the way things have worked out in general Saudi Arabia has the US "by the balls", despite the US's obvious military might.
All of this could have been at least part of the reason, as we've seen, in my opinion Bush and company did not seem to really push 100% to close the deal (so to speak) on capturing OBL, and why they were so quick to rush all the important Saudis out of the US on or immediately following 9/11, and why about 28 pages of the 9/11 report (said to be regarding the Saudi money trail to the hijackers) are still and probably permanently "redacted".
Might explain why, following an attack by 15 Saudis (as well as an Egyptian and 2 UAE natives), the US made the necessary forays into the land where the chief financier and organizer (also Saudi) was hiding out, but then ultimately diverted so much of the effort and the "let's get 'em"-type public sentiment into a totally uninvolved country. Who knows......  < ---- IMO looked very very "fishy"though, to say the least ..... | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:03:20 PM | The Clinton "surplus" was a matter of jiggering numbers. Part of the debt was restructured during the Clinton years, which led to a small reduction of the interest debt (older, higher interest debt was paid off with newer, lower-interest debt). The budget was "balanced" in similar fashion, by diverting monies from their intended purposes; because of this, the "balance sheet" showed slightly more income from taxes than was spent, thus a "surplus."
To answer the question, "Could the US Government go bankrupt?"
Actually, no. The government owns too much stuff and too much real estate to go bankrupt. If it came down to it, they could sell off all those expensive nuke aircraft carriers and submarines, all those military bases, buildings, land leases, etc.
How much is Nevada worth? Most of the state is Federal land (great potential beachfront property for after the "big one" hits CA...), lots of Federal holdings in other states, and overseas.
Of course, they could simply print up enough money to pay off the debt. That would trigger the most calamatous financial disaster in history, on a global scale. Think of food and fuel prices going up 1,000% overnight- gas at $400 a gallon, loaf of bread $290, gallon of milk $309, cup of coffee at a local diner $50.
I'm going back to work on my 100 mpg single-seat commuter vehicle. I think I'm going to need it. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 45 | |
| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:07:44 PM | QUOTE: Of course, they could simply print up enough money to pay off the debt. That would trigger the most calamatous financial disaster in history, on a global scale. Think of food and fuel prices going up 1,000% overnight- gas at $400 a gallon, loaf of bread $290, gallon of milk $309, cup of coffee at a local diner $50.
^^^ Rather like how it got in Germany in between the 2 wars when Hitler came to power. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:31:56 PM | | Far worse than what Germany experienced. The collapse of the US economy would knock down other countries like dominoes, and it would take decades to recover. | |
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| How To Control Money
Posted: 4/29/2008 6:43:30 PM | Just a note of quiet thankful meditation for you forward thinkers on a serious subject: particularly focused on xNEROx and Beaugrand...
This Fed Reserve Bank of "ours" .. affects every country i.e. not just "our economy" ultimately ... the printing of money, not based on ANYTHING, is "accepted." We are looking at global economic shifts beyond my imagination ...
Bush, making agreements with Canada and Mexico, (and none of it is passed through the people of this Nation America through the "usual" voting people) is dissolving our individuality as a Nation. Am I alone in this concern?
Our Country is run by a coup? Should we not question this?
Every friggin "pumped up" (some think staged) event/issue ends up with less civil rights and more power for big government.
Frankly I am scared for the masses -- am I alone? I welcome ANY comforting rebuttal. | |
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| The Looming National Debt Crisis
Posted: 4/29/2008 8:15:38 PM | | feedem, I stand corrected. The surplus I was referring to was $500 billion in that year's annual budget, not the accumualted debt. But, no sooner than Bush took office and, of course, 911 to be fair to him..........that surplus disappeared and we went deeply into debt and ever since. | |
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| How To Control Money
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:20:45 PM |
Am I alone in this concern?
You are not.
I'm in Canada, and not just concerned about my country...but yours as well.
Every friggin "pumped up" (some think staged) event/issue ends up with less civil rights and more power for big government.
Not big government...multinationals through the taxpayer dollars they receive via contracts (especially the no-bid ones) that are handed out by governments....who in turn receive political donations...who then use that money to further their political (and future) careers....many of whom simply move into the industry that they were previously giving taxpayer dollars to.
Cheney (Haliburton) and Rumsfeld (Gilead Sciences) are two that never left their corporate interests behind.
Some may ask....."But what about "We The People....?"
Answer is....corporations are defined as people....
Lastly...but my no means least....security is the fastest (if not the only) growing sector of ..the economy.
Governments no longer offer hope....they offer protection....which....in reality....
....is a ruse. | |
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