| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 9:26:23 AM |
If someone chooses to feel hurt? OMG...talk about ridiculous bullshit ways to exonerate oneself!!!
Actually, it's about asking people to be accountable for their own feelings and subsequently their own happiness. It's about recognizing self defeating "victim" behaviours that not only speak to one's insecurities but often ones need for control in those situations where they feel threatened.
Basically, if you say "what that person said/did hurt me" then you are saying I am not responsible for my own happiness. Why give up that kind of control??? | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 10:38:26 AM |
she has every right to be upset....i don't agree with bachelor/bacheloret parties anyway...why would someone who is about to get married wanna see anyone else naket anyway??? to me thats cheating anyway and if they need that party before marriage then there not ready to settle down yet
Interesting. This could be a useful touchstone in judging your compatibility with someone. I don't believe you are wrong here, as it's impossible to be wrong. Your position on the morality of these actions is very true and real for you. Mine is different, and therefor we would be poor partners, but this doesn't make either of us wrong as long as one of us doesn't attempt to foist their version of morality on the other. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 11:25:19 AM | | No, no, no, if I ever get married again.... No strippers, sluts, skanks, nadda..... any man WILLING to go through that sort of thing, sounds like one who'd be unfaithful anyways. Course, if the wife-to-be is ok with it or is going to have her own "thing" with the gals, and male strippers...then go ahead to each their own. I think it's so wrong though. | |
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Fashen
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Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 129 | |
| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:27:38 PM | The term "victim" is over rated word. Once you are a "victim" you are finished. As long you think like that you will always be hurt. Only you can control your emotions nobody else. Even if someone pulled a gun to your head they can't make you feel a certain way. If I considered myself a victim I would be in a mental institution by now.
I had a friend who is married, he did everything in the house, most of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, clean the yard and heck even do woodworking plus he worked also. All did pretty much did was complain. She considered herself the victim. She went to her shrink and blamed him for a crappy marriage. This same woman would expected me to check her out while her hubby was down stairs while he was getting something. My friend laughed and told me this. This woman wondered if I was gay. I would never do that to a friend nor would I make a pass to a married woman. Seriously people who cry victim has setting up for a big world of hurt. Instead of getting upset maybe she should try to change his behavior. When a person takes responsibility even when it's not their fault they can make life changing impact.
There is a clear difference from rape and physical abuse. The physical aspect you can not control but the emotional you can.
I had customers that are strippers and also knew managers for strippers. Most strippers simply want to make their money and go home. Heck I even knew a DJ and all of them didn't want to be there they kept on asking if they could go home. Not all strippers are willing to have sex even if offered large sums of money. Many of them are students, wives and girlfriends.
Live sex show and porn for 3 days in a hotel is way too much. I myself wouldn't do any of it but I guess the strip bar thing should be ok as long there's no sex involved. I see women even married women check out other men so I don't see a difference. Lust is lust, clothes on or off. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:34:28 PM | ^^^^Yep, I agree about the "victim" card. It's overplayed, grossly overused and self-defeating. You are only a victim once ~ after that, you are player in the game. 
~OT~ I've had one man in my life who ventured into strip clubs, I figured out how to deal with that. I became the DD. It was easier to go and not complain than whine about it, make an issue out of it or be lied to about it. I don't tend to dwell on things I can not change, nor would I want to. I figured if I went with him to the strip club, I'd get even by making him go to the opera. He sort of lost interest in the whole strip club thing ~ hmmm ~ wonder why?  | |
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Fashen
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Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 131 | |
| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 7:51:22 PM | Lust is lust clothes are not. If you're checking out someone it's still the same, clothes or not. Women get mad if their man check out a woman in front of them, I see no difference.
The victim crap is for people who want to continue hurting. You can not get over something like abuse if you consider yourself a victim. I have been there if I cried victim I would be far worse off. Since I never did I learned to get over it on my own. I didn't need some wacky doctor telling me how I should think.
Women go to strip joints too, I knew a girl going every week. Lust after them? Maybe some do but many don't. What is pride for your ego?
Bars actually has more sexually touching than a strip club. Especially dance clubs. Are you going to stop him going there too? Heck they even have sex in bathrooms in dance bars if they can get away with it. Strip bars is for entertainment, dance bars is a meat market. If a guy really wanted to get laid he would go to a dance bar.
~OT~ I've had one man in my life who ventured into strip clubs, I figured out how to deal with that. I became the DD. It was easier to go and not complain than whine about it, make an issue out of it or be lied to about it. I don't tend to dwell on things I can not change, nor would I want to. I figured if I went with him to the strip club, I'd get even by making him go to the opera. He sort of lost interest in the whole strip club thing ~ hmmm ~ wonder why?
Now there's a real woman. Instead of crying and getting upset about it she found a solution to the problem and it worked out fine. I would go to the opera even if I was bored though. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:05:48 PM | The whole "last night of freedom" is just a hold over from the days when marrages were arranged(meaning the poor groom had no choice in who he married).
so for the last 90 or so years the last night of freedom mentallity has not been valid. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:07:21 PM |
Now there's a real woman. Instead of crying and getting upset about it she found a solution to the problem and it worked out fine. So the solution is to accept whatever your mate wants to do?
So then.....if a man wants to go to a strip club and the woman is hurt by it.....then anything that the man doesn't like in the relationship he has to put up with? Say she one day says she doesn't want to have sex anymore...the man simply has to accept it? A real man would do that now, wouldn't he?
Funny how it's always in the debate about strip clubs the partner has to put up with it. All it is is an attempt to discredit women who think respect is important in a relationship. If I had a man and he told me that I had to "deal with" him going to strip clubs, spend money on other women and get a hard on while watching them wriggle and then come home to me and want to use my body while he fantazies about a stripper or two, he would not be my man for long.
I also cannot fathom that so many men keep defending this when so many women are against it. Wouldn't it make sense to try to understand that we regard it lack of respect instead of trying to change us? Do you do that with your boss too? Or anyone else in society who do not agree with you? You keep holding on to an idea that clearly does not work and is hurting other people just because you want it to be a certain way? | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:15:02 PM |
So the solution is to accept whatever your mate wants to do?
So then.....if a man wants to go to a strip club and the woman is hurt by it.....then anything that the man doesn't like in the relationship he has to put up with? Say she one day says she doesn't want to have sex anymore...the man simply has to accept it? A real man would do that now, wouldn't he?
now thats going toooooo far. | |
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Fashen
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Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 135 | |
| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:27:58 PM | Say she one day says she doesn't want to have sex anymore...the man simply has to accept it? A real man would do that now, wouldn't he?
I would have no problems at all.  I can work on my computer, read, even go mountain biking. I used to riding 4 to 6 hours a day everyday.
The thing was she changed his behavior not put up with it. There's clearly a difference, I would have done it differently I would have done something both would enjoy but she gets the job done. See she had him stop going to the strip, she didn't demand or didn't even say he couldn't go, he made his own decision to stop going. There will always be things you won't like other people do, but you can not demand people to change. Plenty of women try to change a man and that rarely works because men don't want to change.
Btw I never said going to the strip bar was ok. But I don't see how the crying victim is going to solve anything, in fact it just makes things worse. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 10:34:32 PM | I haven't read everyone's response, but I see about 1/2 saying ok, the other 1/2 saying not ok. Some saying, it's a good way to end a marraige before it starts, others say, they see no harm.... So now let me throw in my 2 cents worth. Remember, this is coming from a man who's a 3 time looser, so I have experience in this subject.
First of all. Every man should show respect to his bride to be. Having a party with porn and strippers, in my old aged opinioin... is perfectly harmless, provided of course, it is simply that... a party, with porn and strippers. If sex is involved... then you crossed the line.
Guys, if you are getting married and you decide to have sex with someone else at your Bucks night or Bachelor party.... you're not ready to be married. Tell your fiancee you are still not ready to settle down and ask her to postpone the wedding for a year or so. If she breaks up with you... then it was meant to be, since you were still looking to have sex with others anyway.
HOWEVER... Girls, If your groom to be is about to have his bucks night... based on the premesis I stated above... and your concerned about what he is or isn't going to do, or you insist that he not do this for his night... then YOU are not ready to get married. Any woman who throws a fit about that kind of activity... has bigger underlying issues.
In all three of my bachelor parties.... we Made the nudie bar curcuit... and at my 3rd, my fiancee's father... was the ring leader. AT NO TIME, did I ever think of having sex with anyone prior to my wedding day. It's marrital suicide. BUT... I did have a really good time... even with my futer father in law in tow. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 10:45:10 PM | daca 1 hit the nail rite on the head
excuses
excuses
excuses to see somethin 'fresh' i givem the BOOT but thats me | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/23/2008 11:33:59 PM | I think these things get way out of hand, personally. If either the bride-to-be or groom-to-be are thinking in terms of "one last chance..." then I think they're not really entering into the marriage with the right mentality. Further, if their friends are into teasing them with all kinds of forbidden fruit like this then again, it doesn't feel supportive to me. Marriage is serious.
If either the bride/groom suggest that they "need" this level of party then I don't think they're ready to be a faithful partner. Save this level of excitement for the honeymoon. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/24/2008 2:05:29 AM | I find the question 'is it OK to be upset' an interesting one because it assumes we don't have rights as an individual to be ourselves. That question gets asked a lot and I think sometimes people make themselves ill by refusing to accept and live with who they are emotionally.
Having said that - yes, I would feel upset if my partner to be had a need to go out and be surrounded by slithering male strippers with the possibility of sex happening too. Why?
I mean, I don't get that fri****g treatment now so why should I get it just before I get married? It's like a taunt, isn't it? 'hee hee, this is what you could be getting, but no, you chose to be with HER!'.
It could put some serious doubts in his head about whether or not he's doing the right thing. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/24/2008 2:20:30 AM | I agree that this was WAY too far for a bucks night, but you should keep in mind these things are organised not by the groom but by his mates... traditionally its kind of like a challenge, to see how committed he is by showering him temptation
If the groom has anything to do with planning the night, its probably second thoughts and doubt talking and a big warning sign... but the guys I know who have had a bucks before their wedding were given a 'surprise' by us mates and I know we enjoyed it more than he did lol 
My point is, don't get angry at him for being in a situation he didn't create-just tell his mates to stay the hell away from you're marriage  | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/24/2008 3:24:09 AM | | I've never heard the term "buck's night" before this thread but I have attended a couple (I bought my brother a private lap dance for his). Frankly, I think they're rather harmless, sort of a male rite of passage. They seem to be more about the groom's buddies trying to make him as uncomfortable as possible for their own amusement than they are about getting the groom off. If I were getting married and attended my fiancé's bachelor party, it would probably be raunchier than if I didn't and I think if anybody is worried about their betrothed's behavior the night before the wedding, they're going to have a very rocky road ahead of them. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/24/2008 5:57:53 PM |
I'd be pissed off if I didn't get to participate in the night hehe
Now there's someone I'd be compatible with. | |
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Fashen
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Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 144 | |
| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:35:21 PM | | grapevine you seem angry at men, it seems this discussion is getting you upset. I am going to end it for your benefit. It's a waste of time to talk to someone is so angry. Nothing I will say is going to change your mind so I'll leave it at that. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:29:56 PM | I have read many threads where people say all that is ok, and one must be insecure to have a prob with it.
I think that whatever a person's perversion is- if any are had- is up to whomever has them. However- be honest with the one you choose to spend the rest of your life with... or regret being so backhanded. Last time I checked, hell hath no fury. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:36:03 PM |
LOL; I don't need a card to be a man;-)
Ok, ya'll this is the real deal. Note it as I quote it! | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/28/2008 1:07:03 PM | Wow I'd lost track of this one. The other poster is right...Grape you HATE men.
No one is "crying the victim." I'm not advocating staying with the cheating SOB while he continues to go to strip clubs and continues to victimize her, while she sits home and cries about it.
As someone who's had to learn it for himself...Happiness is a choice. Any emotion is a choice. Choosing to feel hurt because your partner goes against your personal wishes is still a choice. You are not a victim, you are simply a participant.
For the record, comparing being murdered or being hit by a car with being left at home while your man goes to the titty bar for the purposes of defining a victim( and worse trying to make yourself into one) is one of the biggest piles of shite I've ever seen posted here. Grow up and learn that you are always responsible for you. Always. | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/28/2008 1:33:01 PM |
I figured if I went with him to the strip club, I'd get even by making him go to the opera.
The abdupsion in the Seraglio (a burdelo)
Madame Butterfly (a burdelo Japanese stile)
Carmen (a slut)
You can get even with me any time. Opera season is about to begin!!! | |
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| bucks nights and strippers
Posted: 8/28/2008 1:39:16 PM |
I also cannot fathom that so many men keep defending this when so many women are against it. Wouldn't it make sense to try to understand that we regard it lack of respect instead of trying to change us?
The argument also goes the other way. Men like it, so don't try to change us. And many of us know plenty of women that have no problem with it, don't mind it, and don't think it's any big deal. So the solution is we don't try to change how you feel about it, I don't try to change how I feel about it. | |
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