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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:12:29 AM | When I hear the words, as well as when I say them, the meaning is that there's a willingness to show up and explore whatever exists, whatever it is. It might be a good movie, a good conversation, a nice romp, a budding friendship, a really bad time...or something more. The base meaning is that there's a willingness to show up and explore.
I think it's a given that it needs to be mutual.  | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:19:05 AM | jutn,, let me get this straight,,
you agree that its an open ended fairly vague statement. at least you seem to in your post. so the question begs,, why do you figure it refers to sex and not bungee jumping? and why should she not be offended when you have presumed it could include sex? and why do you figure we arent entitled to be offended by the very crass nature of your presumption that it includes sex? why would you expect that a person would want to be intimate with simply because the conversation is comfortable? that is a pretty far fetched notion when you think about it. for example,, lets say,, yeah,, lets use your most prized possession as an example. i say, "whatever happens happens" and you figure its on for sex if we get along.. I am thinking if we get along you are gonna sing over the title to your brand new jaguar. thats my "whatever happens". yours is sex. get the point now?? even if you dont,, try a new rule of thumb fellas
unless she has told you straight out that sex is even considered,, dont go there. we have clearly explained that its a vague statement and has different meanings for both genders. generally speaking, the ladies arent including sex in the dynamic, so you fellas should back off of the notion as well. on the one hand if we sleep with you on the first meeting,, we arent "take her home to meet the folks" material. but if we dont, we either are frigid, or a tease, and certainly not "dateworthy" beyond that.
DOUBLE STANDARDS, gotta love em! | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:01:16 AM |
...but unless they are meeing for an intimate encounter NO WAY does she have to communicate that the date is just a date and NOT an invitation to her bed!!
In order to avoid an confusion or miscommunication I suggest that a woman be clear about what her expectations are. A "date" can mean a lot of different things to different people so going on a date by itself does not preclude the idea of sex.
I have a female friend who tells any new men she dates that she has an "eight date rule". There is no ambiguity or confusion. If the man is looking for quick sex he simply doesn't date her. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:09:19 AM | | To me this says that I will not malnipulate the relationship. I will let it flow naturally and let things happen that way. I won't try to become something I am not to fit the other person. And if they happen not to like me that is part of it. I will know that we are not meant to either be together and even through this sometimes hurts being rejected I accept this as part of life.........or at least I like to think that....Blue | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:30:38 AM | That is such a broad statement that I'd have to know the context it was said it. If a man says it, I'd have to assume he was asked by the woman what he hopes for. I don't think this is a question the woman should be asking.
If a man were to ask me what I looked for and my best answer was "What happens happens", I would think I was trying to let him know that I don't care to give any sincere consideration to what I expect of him. Regardless of what my expectations are for a relationships, if I don't 'feel' him, this is a polite way to dismiss the subject. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:37:15 AM | To me that means, lets just see where things go before rushing in one direction or another. I find a of people want to know exactly where they stand at every step of the way, where as I just like to go with the moment and let things happen naturally.....
I like what blue eyes above me had to say, she summed it up nicely as well. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:45:07 AM | Tried to post this early this morning after my night out but the site was funky and wouldn't take the text...my apologies, I'll catch up.
However, the reality is that even times when you have been stone cold blunt like “sex isn’t going to happen on the first date” it is taken as somehow you were vague. It is mind blowing how many times an attempt was made to “talk” me into it and how angry they get when the answer after the date is the same as before the date, which was no. I have even asked point blank, what part of “no” did you not understand? The answers have been along the lines of “I thought I could change your mind” or “I thought it meant if you didn’t like me”, even “I didn’t think you really meant it”. So, it has been my experience that in many cases it really doesn’t matter. There have been some of these instances that didn’t involve sex, but just interest period. I have told men, I have no interest in continuing to see you, please don’t call me and I think some people would be surprised at how many times it is not accepted. I am sure this happens a lot on the other side, but of course I don’t date women.
Absolutely - that paragraph takes me back to many one time meetings or first and last dates...I really think that some men think there's a certain amount of times he has to ask, or a certain phrase he's not saying, or a certain formula that's gonna turn things around...and when you say no, you're met with "awww c'mon" or "what can I do to change your mind" or something that frankly dismisses the fact that you just gave a clear message to them. I think it makes it worse to keep asking, but they don't seem to grasp that. Either they are used to women giving in after a certain amount of pressure, or they figure they have nothing to lose and change their game up or something.
This guy asked me at least 5 times before I left him sitting at the bar if I was sure I had absolutely no sexual attraction to him. I'm sure it was partly the drinking, but it did get kind of silly after the first three.
"Are you interested?"
"No. Not at all. I wish I could say I was, but it's just not there for me. I'm sorry".
"Oh. So does that mean you don't want to sleep with me?"
"Well, no - that would go along with the not interested part. It's sort of the same thing."
"Oh. So what you're saying is you don't find me the least bit attractive."
"No."
"So in other words, you are not sexually attracted to me in any way?"
"No."
"Can we get together again? Maybe I can make a better impression. I might be able to change your mind."
"No, I'm afraid that's not possible."
It wasn't all in the same 10 minutes, but it was basically like that. In any case, I am sure this dude was just taken aback that someone could not be interested in him, or he was slow from the liquor (or just in general), or he figured there wasn't anything else on the horizon that night so he might as well keep badgering me. It was just astounding to me that he'd get a nice clear response and ask again.
But when he came out with "but you said whatever happens, happens", it was like I had promised him something and didn't deliver. Meh, oh well. Live and (try to) learn.
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:59:03 AM | I'm very pleased with this thread because I too have run into a date who I actually like, but I think he bumped his head...no, thats not it. I think he wants so badly for something to happen, and I dont just mean sex, he wants a relationship...that he cant hear, understand, comprehend..."What ever happens, happens," "Slow down and enjoy the moment" "Are you having a good time? Good, then lets have a good time right now and worry about tomorrow later." "Be in the moment" "Settle down Cowboy! I have lots of friends and I'm not sleeping with any of them either!"
He is so wrapped up in relationship issues, I cant get to know him. He's nice and he's fun, but he's scared to death to be alone and he is scaring me away.  
Peace,
Shay | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:59:48 AM | Ok let's break this down:
I tend to be very literal minded and a "say what you mean and mean what you say" type of person. So if I hear someone say "Whatever happens, happens" I'm not going to rule out anything and yes, I'm going to hope for some sex if all goes well.
Generally, hoping for sex isn't surprising to me - I expect that all men secretly do if hanging around with a girl they have some attraction to (or even if they don't for all I know).
If I'm with a lady that used such a phrase and then got insulted if I thought she'd be interested in being sexually intimate when we were both enjoying each other's company I would think she was sending mixed signals.
Yeah to me this is just another story. Knowing each other for an hour and 47 minutes I wouldn't expect a man (logically) to expect or think "yeah, this is in the bag, we're getting laid" especially when they're hearing continuously that it's just a beer and a game of pool and some conversation. I'm not one to not run disclaimers if I feel I need to. In a sense, to me, "whatever happens happens" is a disclaimer in itself meaning we could get along, we could NOT get along...there are no expectations to this meeting. If it was the only thing I said at all it'd be one thing, but it was said amongst other things that let him know that where we were could possibly be (and actually was) all that she wrote as far as us getting together.
If she truly didn't want sex to be a consideration she should make that plain or not use that phrase. If I use that phrase then it means exactly that: Whatever happens, happens, whether it leads to sex or not.
That's odd to me, since sex wasn't listed in that phrase. It could be about floor tile grout for all he knows outside the context of meeting and deciding IF we even liked each other enough to stay for the first beer...interesting. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:08:20 AM | When I say it, it's because I'm not really interested enough to make too much of an effort because the vibe I'm getting from the girl.
When I hear it, I interpret it the same way. She doesn't want me enough so she's just saying it to either keep me as an option, or another version of "Lets just be friends." | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 10:11:28 AM |
jutn,, let me get this straight,,
you agree that its an open ended fairly vague statement. at least you seem to in your post. so the question begs,, why do you figure it refers to sex and not bungee jumping?
Yes, it is very vague. So vague that I don't think I'm out of line for hoping things would lead to sex. I figure it could very well lead to sex, bungee jumping or even to jumping off a roof with an umbrella while trying to whistle with a mouthful of crackers if that's where the conversation takes us. But, if I'm attracted to her, my testosterone driven brain is still hoping for some nookie.
and why should she not be offended when you have presumed it could include sex?
Because my definition of "Whatever happens, happens" is apparently broader in scope than hers. It implies that anything is possible. If she doesn't want sex included in any of those possibilities then she should make that very clear. Otherwise we aren't communicating on the same page with the same expectations. I also don't understand why she should be offended at all. I haven't said anywhere that I expect sex if That Phrase is uttered, just that I'm hoping things would head that way. If her body language/attitude leads me to believe it ain't happening, I'm not going to pursue it.
and why do you figure we arent entitled to be offended by the very crass nature of your presumption that it includes sex?
You're entitled but this is a communication issue. I think That Phrase means one thing, you think it means another. As a result, if later in the evening I make a suggestion that you consider offensive, I'm left wondering why you implied one thing and actually meant another. Mixed signals.
why would you expect that a person would want to be intimate with simply because the conversation is comfortable?
A "comfortable" conversation is very vague. I'm guessing your idea of "comfortable" means no mention of anything sexual. I'm also getting the impression you think I'm being sexually forward on this date and actively attempting to get in her pants. That's not at all the case. My post was simply to give OP an idea of what goes through my mind when I hear That Phrase. I don't expect any kind of intimacy at all.
that is a pretty far fetched notion when you think about it.
I don't think it's far fetched at all. There are men and women that won't even consider sex until they're married and then there are men and women who have sex on a first date. The problem arises when one person is ok with sex and the other is "offended" by the very idea. I don't see a problem with hoping. I do see a problem with hoping, acting on it, being turned down firmly, and then continuing to act upon it when it's obvious the other party isn't interested.
for example,, lets say,, yeah,, lets use your most prized possession as an example. i say, "whatever happens happens" and you figure its on for sex if we get along.. I am thinking if we get along you are gonna sing over the title to your brand new jaguar. thats my "whatever happens". yours is sex. get the point now?? even if you dont,, try a new rule of thumb fellas
I don't understand your logic. Just because you're hoping for a certain outcome doesn't mean it's going to happen. The example you gave would imply that somewhere along the date I'm going to agree to sign over the title to my car to you. If you manage to get it with my complete and willing permission then my hat's off to you, ma'am. If it's done by coercion it's another matter entirely.
unless she has told you straight out that sex is even considered,, dont go there. we have clearly explained that its a vague statement and has different meanings for both genders. generally speaking, the ladies arent including sex in the dynamic, so you fellas should back off of the notion as well. on the one hand if we sleep with you on the first meeting,, we arent "take her home to meet the folks" material. but if we dont, we either are frigid, or a tease, and certainly not "dateworthy" beyond that.
DOUBLE STANDARDS, gotta love em!
- Generally speaking, not everyone thinks the way you do. And without knowing for certain that sex is not an option, I'm going to go on hoping.
- "Whatever happens, happens" is still implying that anything is possible. If you don't want sex to be part of the equation, say so. It will help avoid some uncomfortable situations later.
- I'm not sure where the "double standards" entered into this. I can only speak for myself when I say that a woman willing to have sex with me on a first date doesn't automatically disqualify her from meeting my folks nor would a woman who wasn't willing to have sex immediately make her frigid, a tease, or undateworthy.
"Whatever happens, happens" is an open ended phrase. Nothing more. I just happen to associate it with the possibility of an intimate encounter and so do a lot of other guys. How we all act on it should matter far more than what the phrase implies.  | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 10:11:42 AM | There are times when I'm delighted to be in my age cohort, which pretty much doesn't use the phrase. And delighted, because it is one of those phrases whose entire purpose is to NOT convey actual information. Another one is: What is, is. And another: shit happens. Is this all Valley-Girl speak, or what? The worst of the bunch is one that sez " for no reason I'll ever tell you, you are soooooooooooo unimportant in my scheme of things that I don't owe you any kind of honest or intelligent response." = "Whatever."
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 10:35:10 AM |
My post was simply to give OP an idea of what goes through my mind when I hear That Phrase. I don't expect any kind of intimacy at all.
That's more what I am used to and expect when it comes to men, whether I hear it from talking to male friends, possible dates, male relatives/co-workers in conversation. The hoping isn't where I am confused. As well a woman may hope for another meeting or more time spent if interested. Usually, both know these are unspoken "givens" when two people who like each other and know it are getting along.
I don't see a problem with hoping. I do see a problem with hoping, acting on it, being turned down firmly, and then continuing to act upon it when it's obvious the other party isn't interested.
Agreed.
- "Whatever happens, happens" is still implying that anything is possible. If you don't want sex to be part of the equation, say so. It will help avoid some uncomfortable situations later.
Perhaps men are optimists about this phrase while women see it as preparation for things NOT to progress or work out. Truth is, it's got an upside AND a downside, which for me is the reason I say it - to let them know that anything could happen - but also nothing could happen, and to realize that either way it's just part of the process of meeting new people. I just think it's better not to be overly eager about a meeting or think you know what's coming from it until you're there in the moment, and I try to see if I can put others on the same page. Is it mostly because a majority of the time I end up not interested? Maybe....
Sometimes I wish I was the one who was interested and the other wasn't a lot more. I truly think it would be easier because I don't go in with expectations, so the dissappointment factor isn't huge. It's happened a few times, and I don't ever remember even discussing it. I know and expect that MOST meetings are one sided interest wise. All you can hope for is that both are either interested or totally repulsed mutually.
In my case, yes it's said to squelch expectation - because until I meet someone and talk to them for 10 minutes, I can't honestly form an opinion of interest or have any projection about what will come of it (or whether or not I want anything to).
Oh, and in this case, I pretty much made it clear before I met the guy that there was no sexual outcome...whether I ended up liking him or not. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 10:52:29 AM | well since we are both from R.I. most men here are pigs, dogs classless and they will take that bone, meat,scraps leftovers anything if offered ..so uh "what happens happens" term should never be used with a man on the first date or even second...
p.s i have learned any man that is nice and doesnt mention sex has to be medicated or injected with viagra.sexual handicapps on the internet. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:11:15 AM |
one can ALWAYS use more friends...
Eh.....I used to think this way when I was in my 20's....now I can safely say, "I have ENOUGH friends."
Seen profiles that have said that too. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:12:53 AM | I don't understand your logic. Just because you're hoping for a certain outcome doesn't mean it's going to happen. The example you gave would imply that somewhere along the date I'm going to agree to sign over the title to my car to you.
that you dont understand it isnt all that surprising. the example i gave is simple.
for the sake of the example, you have not specifically mentioned the title to your car, anymore than she has mentioned sex with you. but somehow, you figure "whateverhappens" includes sex but doenst at all include the title to your car.
using the title to your car was meant to demonstrate a point of ludicrousy,, its ludicrous to presume "whateverhappens" includes sex as much as it is ludicrous to think it includes your personal posessions being handed over.
if you seriously stand by your notion that it means "ANYTHNING IS POSSIBLE" then it is as well possible for you to be expecting to sign over that title. i mean,seriously dude,, what isnt on the table here?? and who gets to decide wha gets added into it and what doesnt? | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:01:46 PM | ^^^^^ I don’t know, might sound ludicrous, but in the same text it makes sense. It sounds as ridiculous to me to expect sex is going to or even should happen on a regular basis with a slew of strangers than it does for man to have enough cars to sign over to every woman he dates.
So essentially what you've described, is The Chase that we've read and heard about, right?
Not in my book. Once the “NO” is expressed in my view the “chase” should be over, some finally get it, drop it or go away but there is this whole other type that keeps pushing.
A "date" can mean a lot of different things to different people so going on a date by itself does not preclude the idea of sex.
So, now “Yes, I will go on a date with you” is vague enough to suggest it will include sex?
I have a female friend who tells any new men she dates that she has an "eight date rule".
“Rules” can also suggest to men that they are used to control and manipulate men, how many times have we heard it ladies??? Anybody?
I really can feel for the younger gals like the OP, I went through a lot of this in my younger years and still do even with some of the "old coots" and me not being at all as pretty, shiny, slinky or trim these days. I know for me I used to turn it inwards, I thought, am I dressing in a provocative way, am I flirting too much, am I giving off wrong signals? Sure enough even when I wore skirts to my ankles and blouses buttoned to my neck, even resist hand holding I would have the same behavior shown to me and it still happens even though I am fat now, so it certainly can’t be some irresistible radiance glowing off that is blinding some guys to act like uncontrollable nincompoops.
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:03:46 PM | | When I say it, I use it in the context that I have no agenda. I take things one day at a time. I let time reveal whatever is going to happen. No expectations/pressure. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:16:35 PM | ""I have a female friend who tells any new men she dates that she has an "eight date rule".""
ok,, sorry for the bit off topic post, but i just gotta ask,, what on earth is "THE EIGHT DATE RULE"?
he has to take u out 8 times before you have to put out?or you only have to considering "putting out" after the 8th date? or,, if you havent put out by the 8th,, he is not obliged to continue with you?
dagnabbit,, if theres rules i wanna know what they are! | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:18:57 PM | "Whatever Happens Happens"
Posted: 4/25/2008 12:01:55 PM
I have a question about the context of this phrase and would like to know if it differs greatly with gender, or if it's just me.
I think it means those people are using worn out cliches. And the people wh0 must do that, are the last to know themselves what the phrase means (they might know what thety are trying to say). Its just a phrase, much like a poliitician who says "We are moving forwards" etc.
"""He asked if I was interested, told him I wasn't... He then asked if I would sleep with him (which I thought was the same as being interested, but I digress), and I said "no, of course not."
He then mentioned that I had said "whatever happens, happens" to him several times before we met. I took it as I might like him or not, he took it as "whoa, lemme bring extra condoms""""
Well I think I made my point exaclty "whatever happens happens" is not any form of specific communication....except maybe, something might happen, anything, its not a date specific phrase. INcluding BEING HIT BY A VOLCANO! or Martians purchasing your lease, or Sonics playing in Seattle....That phrase would have zilcho meaning in court, or the court of common sense.
See below: """The phrase is vague, and it is apparent from the mixed responses that there are indeed those who think that “whatever happens, happens” could have an “oh-boy-I-might-get-lucky” connotation""" Exactly, or exactly not. OP made no direct comment to her date that "hmmm, I thinking of sleeping with you...maybe maybe not". | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:23:16 PM | | The phrase is vague, and it is apparent from the mixed responses that there are indeed those who think that “whatever happens, happens” could have an “oh-boy-I-might-get-lucky” connotation. Perhaps these hopefuls find the phrase akin to the “what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas” maxim, which conjures up mental images of debauchery, depravity and every other sinfully licentious “whatever happens” type of behavior imaginable. In any case, when going to meet a virtual stranger, I would think it best to always speak your intentions clearly and precisely, without any ambiguous terms or phrases that could be misconstrued. It does make one yearn for a simpler time; a time when Rerun asked Raj, “What’s happening!?” and you knew the answer wasn’t going to be “whatever happens is what’s happening!” Whether they were chillin’ with Shirley or engagin’ in some downtown yappin’ with Mabel, there were always specific things happenin’. Whatever happened to the delineation of happens? Have we left happens to happenstance? | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:28:17 PM | uglybetty,
To me, it simply means we will see where it goes...no expectations or guarantees. To most of the men I have come in contact with, it simply means the door is open for sex. It's the same when they say they are looking for a friend, they aren't REALLY looking for a friend...they are simply looking for someone they can sleep with. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:30:49 PM |
that you dont understand it isnt all that surprising. the example i gave is simple.
for the sake of the example, you have not specifically mentioned the title to your car, anymore than she has mentioned sex with you. but somehow, you figure "whateverhappens" includes sex but doenst at all include the title to your car.
using the title to your car was meant to demonstrate a point of ludicrousy,, its ludicrous to presume "whateverhappens" includes sex as much as it is ludicrous to think it includes your personal posessions being handed over.
if you seriously stand by your notion that it means "ANYTHNING IS POSSIBLE" then it is as well possible for you to be expecting to sign over that title. i mean,seriously dude,, what isnt on the table here?? and who gets to decide wha gets added into it and what doesnt?
Thanks for the vote of confidence about my mental faculties. [/sarcasm]
I don't think it's ludicrous at all and I'm sure there are even some women that would agree with me. You also seem to be overlooking the fact that just because I'm hoping sex will happen doesn't mean it's going to. What I think is my business. What I act upon is the business of everyone involved. Can you appreciate the distinction?
Your example is extreme. The point of a date is for two people to get to know each other. The extent to which they get to know each other is determined by how far both wish to go. For some, it ends with conversation. Others end it in bed. What my expectations are or aren't, based on whether she uses "Whatever happens" is irrelevant. What matters is what actually happens. So you don't like sex on the first date? Fine. I respect that. But others don't share your opinion and until everyone thinks like you do I'll continue to hope.
I guess I should have said anything is possible within reason. You may now flay me alive for thinking that sex is within reason while not handing my car over isn't, even though first date sex happens a lot more frequently. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:46:17 PM |
A "date" can mean a lot of different things to different people so going on a date by itself does not preclude the idea of sex.
So, now “Yes, I will go on a date with you” is vague enough to suggest it will include sex?
I also mentioned several times before meeting that this was NOT a date, at least as far as I was concerned...nor could it be since we hadn't met in person. I realize a lot of people think this is semantics, so I made it clear what I call a "date" which is two people that like each other already, and have established that they want to get to know each other better.
What I agreed to meet him for wasn't remotely close to that - it really couldn't be before we actually met. | |
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| Whatever Happens Happens
Posted: 4/26/2008 1:14:15 PM | Whatever Happens Happens
I'm not a fan of happenchance and this statement goes there for me....too much left to chance for my liking...with regard to sex and/or otherwise...personally I would only accredit the phrase if the circumstances presented allowed for zero control of the outcome... | |
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