| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 4:10:44 AM |
The question is, was I wrong? Im not a prude, and I dont really care what others do with their lives, but I was raised to think that we are all responsible for our actions,
and prostitution is at best socially irresponsible, the same applies to pornography.
No difference huh ?
Fine. OP you have been sentenced to 30 days as a dancer for the crime of No Empathy.
While you are dancing you have a choice. You can either earn time off by
performing blow jobs in the parking lot and get back to your normal life in 15 days
OR just dance for the full 30 days. What would you do ? If it is all the same i assume
you are going to be in need of some Scotch in a little over two weeks. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 4:21:09 AM |
You obviously think your friends who are in the exotic dancing profession are below you because you said (and I quote):
"i think highly of the men who aren't comfortable with exotic dancers for whatever reason simply because it shows they still have respect for real women."
That statement right there clearly says that you don't consider exotic dancers to be "real women."
ok excuse me but i also said that there is a difference between girls who are doing it to get themselves through college or out of a difficult financial situation and those who think of it as a great career choice while acting and dressing the same out in public as they do in the club without thinking of their future! if you're going to pick apart one sentence, atleast be courteous enough to read everything written throughout the posts.
i'll say it again, why don't people encourage their daughters to do this as a profession if there's nothing wrong with it? why aren't the strip clubs setting up booths at school's on career day? (if they did, parents would have a fit!) and why isn't little suzie or johnny and mom in class on career day with other parents showing the class how to work a pole? my friends are aware of how i feel and respect my feelings on it and know that i don't think the same of them as i do some of their co-workers because their circumstances are that of which where they aren't staying in this profession thinking it's a great life. they're realistic on the issue. i have yet to see on television, in person or in print any stripper who would say it's a fantastic career choice or encourage others to do it. they discourage it and wish they could take it back (you know, the ones who've been there?!) if you're daughter was doing this, would you want your buddies to see her at a bachelor party then come and tell you what a nice rack she has? if you have/had a daughter, is this something you'd encourage her to do? don't attack my feelings and opinions on the issue when you can't even answer honestly on your profile if you have children. you can come in here all you want with your "non-judgemental" attitude. fact remains, if it came down to your own child, your opinion and temperament on the issue would greatly differ to what you've written here! | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 6:04:11 AM | You can rarely judge a book by it's cover, or even uncovered, for that matter. I don't believe exotic dancing is prostitution, but am well aware that some dancers are full service. That does not make all dancers prostitutes, any more than it makes all waitress, or all Walmart cashiers prostitutes if one or more of them does it on the side.
For vicious_vixen: apparently your friends are not tax payers. Any honest dancer does pay taxes,same as honest waitresses/waiters etc pay taxes on their tips. Therefore your argument that they have no security in their job is wrong, and some do it as a lifelong profession, and do very well. Some people win a million dollars and are broke in less than 5 years. It all depends on how you manage what you have. And you are right that it only takes one bad apple to spoil the barrel. One full service girl in a club makes it very difficult for the real dancers. And they still have to pay the fees to the club whether they actually make any money on their shift
One of the earlier posters mentioned talking to a girl who was well educated, and just talked to him. He may well have been talking about a friend of mine who danced in almost every state and province, put herself through college, and invested her money well.
Unlike some posters here, I've never believed it is my right to judge others on their vocation, weight, or lifestyles I would not choose for my own. If I could walk in their shoes, I might have a better understanding, but since as yet in this life that is an impossibility, I think we should worry more about how we live our own lives, rather than trying to make someone else fit into our self fashioned mold. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:25:57 AM | | Well said tchofclas.... even the bible says "Judge not lest ye be judged." i am a trucker and sell my services to a company to drive one of their trucks. Dancers sell their services. We all sell ourselves in one way or another... it is just a matter of degrees. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:33:59 AM | Dude, let me get this straight, you were in sin city, I mean Las Vegas, and you got into a running dispute about stripping being the same as prostitution thus not moral. What were there for a church convention or something like that?
If I had a bunch of girls wanting me to go with them to a strip club and "whatever", I sure as shit would not be arguing with them about morals. If necessary I would drink heavily and go with them to see what popped up - It could have been a really twisted fun evening. You had a golden opportunity thrown at you. One that most guys would love to have. No wonder you are on POF looking for dates . This post must be some kind of joke post. Next your going to tell us you went back to your room and prayed.
To ad insult to injury, then you go and attack porn like it is a bad thing. What do you beat the bishop to? The bible?
I think many people do things in their jobs, on a daily basis, that would be considered immoral (lying to make a sale to get someone's money) thus , to to some degree, aren't many people out there prostituting themselves for money by compromising morals. Lay off the hookers and strippers.
May I digress, prostitution and stripping are victimless and an even exchange. Neither should be illegal anywhere.
Stripping is not prostitution and, as for prostitution, there should be more of it. If there was, maybe there would be fewer sanctimonious, bible thumping clergy banging little boys and girls.
Sorry to be so long winded, but I enjoy it at times. Do you still have those girls names and numbers? | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 10:11:07 AM | | Sure sounds to me like you care what other's do. And then you judge them for it. You have every right to have your own opion but that doesn't meam every body thinks the same way. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 10:58:03 AM |
his is where the line gets blurry. If a man is a customer and tips the dancer and then she has sex with him outside of the club...is that prostitution? Does it matter if the guy only spends a few bucks watching her dance compared to a few hundred on lap dances? The line seems to get blurred there and that is why dancers get a bad rap.
I agree, it is a fairly gray area (more to the darker gray to me). Chances are, she is only sleeping with him because he was so "generous". It's a different way of asking, but I think if the intent between both is seen as "this money=sex" then yes. The same guy could have been throwing bills at her all night, but if she had no intention of doing anything more than the lap dance, then what, is she in the wrong?
Maybe I'm naive on what goes on in these places nowadays. It's been 14 years since I've gone to one, with no interested in going now.
While i see your point of view, ask yourself this: were they naked? (no) were they doing it for individuals who were putting money between their thongs? (no) were they giving lapdances? (no)
there are ways for women to flaunt their sexuality in a classy, not trashy manner. there was a thread on here not long ago where men were making a point of saying that it is more of a turn on when a woman covers up but leaves a little to the imagination (and some of the guys in this forum were in that one saying they prefer subteltly over in your face!) i'm not saying that a stripper is automatically a prostitute. a few friends of mine are actually in this line of work. there is also a difference between a girl doing it to put herself through college and the one who wishes to make it her life long career. what are these women going to do as they age and are no longer wanted by the establishements and can't support themselves? i've spoken to many women who were/have been in the profession for years and say they can't just invest their money because the government will question where the money came from and nail them on taxes and fraud, etc. so they end up with little to no savings, lots of material posessions and no actual career to fall back on.
i guess my point is that of judge judy's "beauty fades; dumb is forever"
I remember that thread, and yes, I was one of the ones that thought "less is more". I have known a few strippers that were just in it for the dancing. They were single moms, or students, but they had a "no sex with customers" rule. How much they adhered to that, who knows, I wasn't privy to that part of their life. As for my pin-up examples, I was just using them as an example that a "sensuality" based profession does not make it prostitution. I think it's the intent behind the transaction on both parts of the people involved. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 11:22:29 AM | Dear OP
Respect your belief system ... always be true to what you believe ....
If something doesn't feel right for you it isn't. I respect your choice not to heed to peer pressure. I would strongly caution you not to be judgemental towards others or other professions. It wasn't that you chose not to go to the club -- everybody has the right to their own preferences -- it is more you came across as judgemental and thus placing yourself above others. We live in a PC country. Stand for your beliefs always. If your friends can't respect that this activity is not within your comfort zone -- the friend has issues. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 11:30:59 AM | just about every song out in the Hip-Hop/Rap culture makes reference to or is about a guy's obsession with a stripper. Some are harder to pick up on than others but the references are all there. Maybe it started with the song "I'm In Love With a Stripper" but in these new songs all the girls they talk about are "shakin it for their money" or "sliding down the pole" and these are girls the singer is supposed to be in love with.
Which recent hip hop songs talk about strippers? | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 11:53:54 AM | | In your quest to define prostitution, consider this quote by Tennessee Williams: "Sex you pay for is usually a lot cheaper than sex you don't pay for." | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:01:36 PM | [quote}How do you live in the world without a moral center?
The global sex industry brutalizes and exploits millons of women and girls,
many of whom are little more than sex slaves, and the bulk of the money goes into the pockets of thugs and criminals. It reduces women to little more than animals.
Somones daughter, mother, sister or wife has to debase themselves.
You need to reevaluate your ethics.
If you don't think your particpation on this site doesn't indirectly support some aspect of the global sex industy, then you are really missing the boat. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 2:39:31 PM | tchofclas
Therefore your argument that they have no security in their job is wrong, and some do it as a lifelong profession, and do very well.
really? i've been to strip clubs all over and haven't seen any 50 or 55 year old strippers getting up shaking their thangs. why? because men don't want to see menopausal or pre-menopausal women doing that. and why aren't there any 60+ women doing it either? it's easy to attack what i say, however, no one can actually condone the idea of encouraging a child to do this as a career. amazing how the people who are ripping apart what i say and calling me judgemental seem to completely ignore this and then have the balls to say i'm judgmental. i've simply put the reality of this issue out there and empathized with the OP about how he felt and how the issue can be a grey area and why some people feel it is and listed very valid reasons for why many see things that way. i think it's absolutely hilarious that when people give their PERSONAL opinions and/or feelings on an issue, many come in here and say it's judgemental. isn't criticizing someone for how they feel on something and calling them prudes, etc. also judgemental? my friends are taxpayers honey...majority of strippers however are not. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 2:56:01 PM | | Vixon -- you've got my support as does the OP. People do seem to have a judgemental attitude today. Yet, blast the OP for being judgemental .... has some entertainment value for the day. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 2:56:59 PM | | First when i moved to Ontario, i met a lady on here who was 53 and a stripper. i went to see her at work and found her to be quite good and very appealing. Was also in a strip club in Quebec one night that had two BBW's (over 30 by the way) and another stripper who was 48. Turned out that these three were the most popular dancers that night. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 3:22:44 PM |
ok excuse me but i also said that there is a difference between girls who are doing it to get themselves through college or out of a difficult financial situation and those who think of it as a great career choice while acting and dressing the same out in public as they do in the club without thinking of their future!
That still doesn't negate the statement that you made that I merely quoted.
You didn't say, "I think highly of the men who aren't comfortable with exotic dancers who aren't doing it to get through school." You said, "I think highly of the men who aren't comfortable with exotic dancers (period) for whatever reason simply because it shows they still have respect for real women."
Ergo........
Whether you meant to or not (or are merely trying to backpedal, which is what it appears to me), you implied that your friends who dance are not real women. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 3:48:59 PM | Nah, it isn't prostitution at all, but I understand your reaction. Only certain types of girls do pole dancing or any kind of exotic dance. They sure do look good though!
I think you should have been a bit more sensitive to her opinion and just let her win the argument. If she is getting bent out of shape about it, it is better to just let her have her own way while you still believe what you want. She obviously is really into that stuff. In my opinion though, I just think exotic dancing is a waste of time unless the girl is young or doing it as recreation or a hobby. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 3:58:15 PM | raphael_adroit_esquire
i'm not attempting to negate my statement. i stand by every word written in this forum. i also made an excellent point of a girl who used to be on this site and the issues she faced by stating her career even though she was also a med student and not being taken seriously and what happened once she made a change to her profile. whether some people want to admit it or not, she was judged and treated by what was on the surface and assumed that she would give guys on here a free thrill. once the change to her profile was made, a HUGE and overwhelming difference occured. don't sh!t on me because i'll put reality in black and white!
i've also asked why aren't people who are attacking the little things i've written, condoning the idea of presenting this career choice to young girls and promoting the career in schools, yet no one has seemed to comment on it. i wonder why? it's because those of you who are out there typing out your judgements on those of us being realistic on the issue, don't like the idea when it hits too close to home. i've scratched beneath the surface and you hate the idea that i actually have valid points that may tap into your own judgemental attitudes underneath your "i'm not judgemental" facade! the same sentences i've written are repeadily picked apart, yet no one will comment on the overall message. face it, if it came down to your own child, not a single one of you would encourage her/him or even throw the option out there, as a career choice. you'd discourage it and it would make you all hypocrites. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 5:24:42 PM | I'm guessing that your friend wasn't bent out of shape over your choice not to go but from your pronounced moral superiority. By extension, everyone who performs in a "provocative" manner might be described as a prostitute.
You have a problem with stripping. Fine, you didn't go to watch a stripper. You don't like prostitution? Don't hire one. You don't like porn? Don't read/watch it. These are your rights. You're not right to judge others for these activities. It's easy to judge someone but harder to try and understand them. Takes more responsibility, too. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 5:28:11 PM | nah...it's not prostitution unless she's fuking him in while she's dancing..............in which case he'd have to be kinda dancing too I think...hmmmm, just two people fuking dancing....so nope neither scenario makes her a prostitute... | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 5:35:02 PM |
Which recent hip hop songs talk about strippers?
There are definately more than this and I only know the name of one "artist"  here are four:
Apple Bottom Jeans
I Wanna Make Love In This Club
I Like The Way She Do It (50 Cent)
She Got It
I will get a more inclusive list in a day or so but this is just a start. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 4/30/2008 11:59:30 PM | YES! Stripping IS prostitution! I think everyone who has posted a comment so far and does not agree with that, is either:
a) A former or current dancer (which is why the majority of the women posting are so defensive)
b) A dirty old man who is constantly at the strip club, sitting in "perverts row" and to make himself feel better he tells himself that it's an "art" other than what it really is.. prostitution.
c) Never been to a strip club and has no idea what it consists of.
I've been to strip clubs before with groups of friends to end a night out or for guy friends birthday or something and honestly I feel dirty just talking about it. It is the lowest, most degrading "job" I have ever witnessed.
Protitution is defined as engaging in sexual acts for money. I'm pretty sure the last time I checked, a woman rubbing her private parts all over a mans face was a sexual act. Someone tried to defend strippers before by saying "It's not protitution because men aren't even allowed to touch the women!" Well that's great and all but you forgot to mention the fact that the women are still allowed to touch the men...i.e: prostitution.
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 5/1/2008 12:23:15 AM | How does the saying go...when you go to a strip club u will get screwed but u wont get ****ed.
Who cares what they are doing in there. This is a question of personal morality and the only reason prostitution is illegal is because the majority of prostitutes are women. If men could sell****as well as prostitutes then prostitution would be the greatest paying job in the world.
How many men here have the balls to take there clothes off in public and shake there ding a lings to the masses.
What exactly defines prostitution ?
If its the exchange of something valuable for gratification then we are all prostitutes.
This goes to all you women trolling bars for free drinks, all those of you who look at someone because he has a nice car or house, or because he dresses nice. You do that because ultimately you know that he has the money to invest in those material things. Does that make you all prostitutes ?
Stripping is a questionable job due to society's morality but we have all taken off our clothes after too much to drink or the prospect of a desirable future so to all you fire and brimstone preachers, ask yourselves if you are that much better than the stripper. | |
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| Is exotic dancing prostitution?
Posted: 5/1/2008 2:56:50 AM | Oh sure, exotic dancing is prostitution, in the same time honored tradition as being p-teased or c-blocked by another girl's friend at bar is prostitution.
And let's see...women who marry men who are financially stable and know they can provide for them...wow, I guess those soccer mom's are hitting the street corners tonight huh?
And I'm sure real prostitutes are soooo glad they're on the street turning tricks for money looking forward to the risk of being baited by vice squad or the random john that turns out to be the local serial killer.
Before you judge, why don't you find a women's center where real bonafide prostitutes are, and spend some time talking to them and knowing who they are and what their background was before they took to hooking. | |
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