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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/3/2008 10:41:45 PM | Texas does NOT require citizens to carry or have a state ID!
Texas is considering legislation that would require a state issued ID to purchase a prepaid cell phone to restrict gang activity. However, they do not require each citizen to have one, , , yet. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/3/2008 11:01:55 PM | .
What about voting by mail? ...... Is that banned in Indiana now?
No voting by mail or absentee ballots?
Where is the proof that this is a Huge problem? | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 12:51:58 PM | Nomad and Exodus ---
I notice that neither of you reside in Texas at this tme. Also that the question of whether or not you are required to carry ID is not one that cannot be answered by a quick look at Google.
However, continuing to debate this small part of what I am saying would really be off-topic.
The point of my question is this:
Most people have Pic ID's as they are required to do MANY other things -- like getting a job, or collecitng "entitlement" benefits .
Also, the state gives free Picture ID's to those that cannot pay the small fee for them
So, why is it so important to you that ID's be required to vote? It doesn't seem to bother anyone that Pic ID's are required for other things. So why object ONLY when it comes to requiring them for voting? | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 1:28:36 PM | No, but it can be found in the Texas Administrative Code, Section 37.15, if you would like to look it up for yourself.
Why is it important? Because illegal aliens DON'T vote!!!! They aren't going to risk getting deported to try to influence the vte count by one. most of them are oblivious to our poitical arena. It is a LIE by the right wing to scare minorities, to disenfranchise the poor and elderly. It has NOTHING to dowith protecting te sanctity of ouur elections.
I grow tired of the right wing spreading lies, making it sound like they care.
States, not the Federal government, determine the rules for elections, except where there is a Constitutional amendment, such as; 18 year old vote. So, states can require an ID. I am worried that it will disenfranchise elderly voters. I almost didn't get to vote, because I moved. My ID has my previous address, even though I updated it with MVD, they still required two more pieces of identification. It was hard fr me to do. I'm not poor, but I didn't have utility bills or a phone bill in my car. I don't have a home phone, as I am not home enough to have one. So, I almost didn't get to vote, and I haven't missed an election since my 18th birthday! I had my driver's license and my voter's registration card. . . Why wasn't that sufficient? Because the Republicans don't want MY vote to count!
These ID restrictions aren't to limit illegal aliens, they DON'T vote. It is to make it difficult for poor and middle class people. They are the ones targeted, they are the ones who move a lot, they are the ones who don't drive and therefore don't need a driver's license. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 2:30:20 PM |
The point of my question is this:
Most people have Pic ID's as they are required to do MANY other things -- like getting a job, or collecitng "entitlement" benefits .
Also, the state gives free Picture ID's to those that cannot pay the small fee for them
So, why is it so important to you that ID's be required to vote? It doesn't seem to bother anyone that Pic ID's are required for other things. So why object ONLY when it comes to requiring them for voting?
Tradurgirl, some things have importance beyond their immediate practical application. The fact that it's only a limited hardship, or even no hardship at all, for MOST people to provide state-issued picture ID at a voting station is irrelevant to me. I wrote a long post about my feelings on this earlier in this thread--I don't know whether or not you read it.
In my view--this question has significance BOTH in terms of immediate application AND as a BIGGER issue. When it comes to the question of whether or not individual states have created laws requiring this form of identification at polling stations, or will now that the Supreme Court has so schockingly signed off on this in Indiana, .... exodus (above) has provided one example of the possible consequences of this even for relatively young people, with drivers licenses, etc. But beyond HIS experience, there are larger issues of principle here--one of which is, at a very basic level, that an American going to vote should NOT have his or her RIGHT to do so determined based on the subjective judgment of a person LOOKING at his ID. What if I look different from my picture? Does someone at the polling station get to DECIDE that I'm not who I say I am? Do I need to bring several forms of back-up ID with me, in case my photo-ID doesn't satisfy the polling agent? What is the point of VOTER REGISTRATION in the first place, if my ability to vote depends on somebody sitting in judgment of me--essentially in a similar position to a bouncer at a bar--having the RIGHT to DECIDE if I am who I say I am, and if I "get" to vote. What if they have an agenda of their own? Will registered democrats, at some polling stations, receive MORE scrutiny than registered republicans (or vise versa)? Will certain races or ethnicities, or adherents to certain religions, receive MORE scrutiny than others? There is immeasurable potential for corruption here, WELL beyond this supposed problem of non-citizens penetrating the system as it now exists.
But even putting aside the issue when it comes to what happens in polling centers on election day....what about absentee voters? When I lived abroad, I voted absentee in three presidential elections--which I was able to do because I was a REGISTERED voter in the state of Texas, and nobody checked my ID at my post office in London when I sent in my vote. IF Texas had received a second vote from someone with my name and voter registration number, then I would have expected and participated in an investigation of that, including going to the trouble of PROVING who I was. But as far as I know, that didn't happen--and the fact that we have voting districts, at which people are ticked off against their names on reigstration lists, providing their registration cards as they line up to vote, SHOULD be enough to ensure a democratic process.
But again, I DO NOT believe that this is actually about the pretended immigrant voting problem, NOR do I believe that this step is being taken for its own sake. I believe that this is a step towards softening us up for the implementation of a national ID program, and I'm COMPLETELY against that, for reasons that I have gone into earlier in this thread. But I can just see the arguments now: "Well, you already have to have an ID to drive, get a job, and EVEN VOTE....so where's the harm?"
You or anyone else can list all the places in life in which people living in this country have to provide ID, but none of that matters a bit to me. We live in a representative democracy in which the right to vote is the MOST important guarantee AND reflection of what we CALL our liberty, and imagined fears of significant numbers of non-citizens committing voting fraud is NOT sufficient, IMO, to justify steps making it harder rather than easier to vote, which is the INEVITABLE result of this kind of policy.
Our national elections are a joke as they are....but the corruption that taints them is NOT the result of immigrant voting, it's people being SELECTIVELY disenfranchized who should NOT be (often the very SAME demographic of people most likely to be disenfranchized by this kind of policy). THIS is simply one more measure to ENSURE the continuation of THAT sort of disenfranchizement...giving increased control to WHO "gets" to participate in OUR democratic process to people who shouldn't have it. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 2:33:31 PM |
It doesn't seem to bother anyone that Pic ID's are required for other things.
i guess that depends on who you know and what their views on what our rights are. I know people who refuse even to have a drivers license and have made their points in courts.
requiring drivers licenses does indeed stop people from voting, REGISTERED VOTERS among them.....the blind, people who out of moral or ethical reasons don't drive (I wonder what party folks like that would vote for?), anybody who has had their license taken, which can happen under misdemeanors, disabled, people who don't have/need a car..... | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 2:54:21 PM | | wouldn't it be very easy to have a scanner that read your fingerprints to vote? can't fake that. I was reminded of it this weekend. I have a seasons pass to bush gardens. all I have to do to get in is put my thumb on some sort of scanner and it knows me. plus they wouldn't have to hire an incompetent person to check ID's. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 2:58:19 PM | ^^^^ marquise, that's an interesting thought. But again....this would require being willing to give your fingerprints to the state just to exercise your right to vote....which IMO constitutes an invasion of privacy.
If I commit a crime and get caught, they can have my fingerprints. Until then, I'd rather not, thanks. But should that preference on my part mean forfeiting my right to vote? I don't think so. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 3:02:37 PM | | I was actually fingerprinted in pre school on a field trip to the police station. who knows nomadic, they might print us while we are out at the dentists office. there are a lot of ways to tell who we are that we consent to. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 3:04:18 PM | .
This is a none issue. A way to accuse legislators of not being American enough.
No one will post examples of the PROBLEM. No one will address Absentee ballot or voting by mail.
Great discussion.
Real issues, Caging, Voter machine Fraud, Paper Trail for voter, Ability to recount.......
This is a none issue, and has nothing to do with honest elections.... | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 4:41:38 PM | Exodu --
Your statute refers to "Rules of Practice" . Try again.
As I have pointed out several times by example -- it does NOT make it harder for poor and middle class voters to vote AT ALL.
Still not the issue ---
Also, the isssue is NOT about illegals voting. It is about the facilitaiton of poll workers to correctlly count votes at polling sites. And the lowering of instances of ALL kinds of voter fraud.
I' sure you DO want votes to be counted correctly, and to minimize voter fraud -- DO YOU? | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 4:44:57 PM |
The fact that it's only a limited hardship, or even no hardship at all, for MOST people to provide state-issued picture ID at a voting station is irrelevant to me.
But that is the ONLY point I was making re: this issue. So why the argument? | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 4:47:45 PM |
It doesn't seem to bother anyone that Pic ID's are required for other things.
Your are right, Crash --
I mis-spoke. What I meant to say was "It doesn't seem to bother anyone INVOLVED IN THIS DISUCSSION that Pic ID's are required for other things.
Thanks. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 5:30:14 PM |
But that is the ONLY point I was making re: this issue. So why the argument?
Cuz you asked a question?
So, why is it so important to you that ID's be required to vote? It doesn't seem to bother anyone that Pic ID's are required for other things. So why object ONLY when it comes to requiring them for voting?
And so I answered it? | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:32:25 PM |
Didn't get an answer from you Nomad --
Just more of the same.
tradurgurl, I don't understand what you mean. In what way did I not address the question you were raising? I thought you were asking why I dislike the idea of requiring state-issued photo IDs as a condition of voting, as opposed to in other areas of life? How did I not answer that? Or did I misunderstand the question? | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:58:23 PM | TG;
I apologize that I can't locate the actual section of Texas law, however, the TAC is not well organized and does not have a quality search engine.
However, I found an article that basically covers the fact that an ID is NOT required, because the Texas St Legislature is currently fighting over the issue.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA042908.VoterID.EN.38d45c7.html
An ID is NOT required to live in Texas! Moreover, it is NOT even a current requirement for voting in Texas.
Texas blocked the legislation. . . Arizona, has began requiring the ID, as I mentioned, it nearly cost me my ability to vote. I had a photo ID, my Driver's License and my voter's registation card with my current address and polling station on the card. Moreover, I was on the list at the polling station. These are only issues for poor and middle class people, wealthier individuals don't move as often.
Illegal aliens don't vote! This is a non-issue!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a red Herring. Make people think illegal aliens are voting to distract from the fact that they are stealing elections with voting machines from Diebold! | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 7:16:28 PM | ok, sorry Nomad --
I did read your last post a little more carefully.
The checking of picture ID's has been going on for some time without objections -- and was not (to my knowlege) significantly challanged until the last election. The situation arose when some voters appeared at the wrong precinct (for their addresses) and attempted to vote with no identification. When poll workers attempted to turn them away they claimed that the "real" reason that they asked to confirm to basic requirements was due to "racism" and "disenfranchisement" of blacks.
The votes were accepted by the poll workers, to appease the voters, but they had to make specail effort to verify them later. Also, even after the votes had been accepted, the voters in question continued to complain of "racism" and to attempt to press suit.
The purpose of having everyone vote in their own precinct and show picture ID is to facilitate accurate counting of votes and to discourage voter fraud. It is not to "disenfranchise" anyone, or to make it hard for anyone to vote.
Mail in, and absentee ballots do not require picture ID's for obvious reasons. They are verified by the voter's social security numbers. It does take longer to process them, but it is necessary -- so it is done.
Poll cites are monitored by members of both parties (to be fair) and more than one person from each party is there to check ID's in the event of a person not looking like their picture. If a person really didn't look like their picture, their identity could be verified by their giving their social security number (which is on the voter reistraton list).
I CERTIANLY DO agree with you re: your concerns about the new national ID's that have already been legally approved. They make me suspisous, too. I wish we could do something to stop that.
But the only issue that I have about this is that SOME of the posters who don't object to ID requirements for other things -- just don't want them to be used for voting. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 7:30:47 PM | Exodus:
An ID is NOT required to live in Texas!
Not technically. However, if you are stopped by the police in this state and can show no ID, they can take you to jail if they chose to do so. So that is what I meant by stating that you need ID on you when you come and go.
Moreover, it is NOT even a current requirement for voting in Texas.
Not an exact state statute, maybe. But it is a polling place reqirement. Everytime you are asked to vote at a poll in Texas you will be required to produce picture ID. This is done to facilitate accurate vote count and discourage voter fraud.
Mail in and absentee votes do not require picture ID's of course. They are checked by using the voters SS#. It takes more effort to do this, but it is necessary.
it nearly cost me my ability to vote. I had a photo ID, my Driver's License and my voter's registation card with my current address and polling station on the card. Moreover, I was on the list at the polling station. These are only issues for poor and middle class people, wealthier individuals don't move as often.
Sorry to hear that! Please tell me more about why your picture ID was not accepted.
My issue is not with people in your position
My issue is with some of the posters who say that it is fine to have to present ID in other cases but it is unfair to have to do same at the poll.
You, no doubt have a legitimate issue, but some of the others issues raised do not seem to be so legitimate. | |
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/4/2008 9:31:46 PM | .
Mail in and absentee votes do not require picture ID's of course. They are checked by using the voters SS#. It takes more effort to do this, but it is necessary.
This is not correct. I verified information for TX .
The SSNBR is not used....
There is not more effort in checking voter ID for mail in.....
Discourage voter turn out..... Caging and Forced to accept a provisional ballot...
I' sure you DO want votes to be counted correctly, and to minimize voter fraud -- DO YOU?
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| Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/5/2008 6:51:56 AM | a bit nomadic: There are very few registered voters falling into the groups you mention, I agree they have the right to vote and for them the government would provide an ID for them. The only thing the governemnt shouldn't is take people to the polls to vote but people would complain about that not happeneing. If you don't trust the government and or have a marginal existance, then the problem lies with those people not the government.
The requirement of a photo ID to vote isn't the end all cure all for voter fraud but it's the best way to keep it to a minimum. For those who say no to the photo ID idea and want to just let people show up an vote, why even register any voters, what about those who can read or write how do they register to vote, if they can fill out a registration with the help of someone they they can to the same for a photo ID.
Dems and repubs alike take part in some very shady and maybe even illegal activity around election time and both sides have no pronblem rounding up voters to say what they want them to. The best way to ensure that only citizens vote and vote only once is proof of who you are and the best proof is a photo ID. | |
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