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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Photo ID required to vote, good or bad      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 201
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:52:08 AM

According to this cnn article, it was documented that 624 illegals voted in a very close election in california.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/13/cq/sanchez.html
Here is some more info from a member of the house judiciary committee
http://judiciary.house.gov/OversightTestimony.aspx?ID=777



Thank you some one has proof... in ....

.........................1996 624 voters.... anything more current?


from your other site.... We need to out law vote by mail correct... ore than 624


Another tactic employed by illegal aliens and noncitizens to obtain voting rights involves absentee voting. Absentee voting has become increasingly common, and there are no safeguards in place to ensure the actual voter is voting or for elections officials to challenge the voter in person as a possible illegal voter. In effect, there are no safeguards in place to ensure the person requesting the absentee ballot is actually the person voting. Elections official’s hands are tied to protect the integrity of the voting ballot.



still from your site... 58000 illegals with Photo ID....

and when you get your D/L you can register to vote right then....





In Utah, it was discovered that more than 58,000 illegal aliens had fraudulently obtained drivers’ licenses. A legislative audit bureau determined that possibly 383 illegal aliens were registered to vote. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted a sample consisting of 135 of these individuals and discovered that five were naturalized citizens, twenty were “deportable”, one was a permanent legal resident, and 109 had no record and were assumed to be in the United States illegally. More alarmingly, it was revealed that at least fourteen had voted in a recent Utah election.


What is the answer.... You know.... what would solve all this


“Instead of creating a new card, the Commission recommends that states use ‘REAL ID’ cards for voting purposes. The REAL ID Act, signed into law in May 2005, requires states to verify each individual’s full legal name, date of birth, address, Social Security number, and U.S. citizenship before the individual is issued a driver’s license or personal ID card. The REAL ID is a logical vehicle because the National Voter Registration Act established a connection between obtaining a driver’s license and registering to vote. The REAL ID cards adds two critical elements for voting — proof of citizenship and verification by using the full Social Security number. The REAL ID Act does not require that the card indicates citizenship, but that would need to be done if the card is to be used for voting purposes. In addition, state bureaus of motor vehicles should automatically send the information to the state’s bureau of elections.” “Building Confidence in U.S. Elections: Report of the Commission on Federal Election Reform,” The Carter-Baker Report (Sept. 2005)



Homeland security....... Little steps.... Lets move on... get the chip... only safe ID....

we could start with a tattoo... maybe right arm.... a bar code...

hahaha... for all the illegals jajajaja
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 202
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:10:12 AM
I read the article, there was NO proof, just speculation by the loser Dornan!

In fact, the committee ruled 8-1 to stop the investigation, due to lack of proof and that the number of votes in question would not change the results of the election. That committee had 8 republicans and one (Steny Hoyer) Democrat, but ruled 8-1 to halt the investigation.

Illegal Aliens Don't Vote! They have no proof, just lies and speculation.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 203
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:13:19 AM
...hmmm... a Republican named Steven King alerting the committee to the dangers of illegals voting.... whoda thunk?

redwood, did you bother to read what you linked to? Here's the CNN report our colleague linked to;

Proof Of Illegal Voters Falls Short, Keeping Sanchez In House

By Jackie Koszczuk, CQ Staff Writer

The House is set to dismiss former GOP Rep. Robert K. Dornan's challenge to election results that forced him to give up his California seat to Democratic Rep. Loretta Sanchez, ending an acrimonious 13-month battle that many Republican leaders believe has hurt the party with Hispanic voters nationwide.

Sanchez took the seat from six-term incumbent Dornan in November 1996 by just 984 votes. Dornan claimed the election was stolen through rampant illegal voting by non-citizens.

Acting on a recommendation from a contested-election task force, the House Oversight Committee on Feb. 4 voted 8 to 1 to drop the investigation of Dornan's claims. The full House is likely to accept that verdict when the resolution is introduced sometime the week of Feb. 9.

Task force Chairman Vernon J. Ehlers, R-Mich., said investigators had found concrete evidence of 748 illegal votes by non-citizens, not enough to throw Sanchez's victory into doubt. He and other Republicans said the results nonetheless show that Dornan's challenge was not frivolous and that the GOP was not unfairly targeting Hispanic voters.

"The fact that we ended up with 748 illegal votes makes it clear his allegations had merit," Ehlers said.

Democrats have characterized the probe as a witch hunt, charging that Republicans sought to unfairly single out and intimidate Hispanic voters. Rep. Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, the lone Democrat on the task force, said of the panel's recommendation, "It's never too late to do the right thing."

Sanchez celebrated surrounded by House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt, D-Mo., and cheering Democratic lawmakers and staff at a rally held just after the task force's decision. "I feel great," Sanchez said. "When you stand up and you fight for something and you know that you're right, justice can prevail."

Gephardt said: "Loretta won this election fair and square. There's never been a doubt in my mind."
Not Going Quietly

Dornan, who was present with his wife and daughter for the committee's decision, was as outspoken as ever. He asserted that he won the election, but that the panel was unable to prove it because its investigators were stonewalled by Sanchez, by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), and by Hermandad Mexicana Nacional, a group that helped register Latinos in California but which was found by committee investigators to have registered large numbers of non-citizens.

"I won on election night," Dornan said. "In her heart of hearts, Loretta Sanchez knows that."

Dornan vowed he would stay active in politics, and he hinted that he might run for the Senate against California Democratic Sen. Barbara Boxer, whose term expires this year. He also intimated that either he or his son, Mark Dornan, would challenge Sanchez again this year.

"There will be a Dornan running for the 46th District," he said, but he asserted that he and his family had not decided which one of them it would be.

Dornan's aggressive personal style and the intensity with which he argued that he had been wronged eventually hurt his case. After he got into a heated argument about the matter with Rep. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., on the House floor in September, the House voted to strip him of his former member's floor privileges.

In explaining how the task force reached its conclusion, Ehlers said the panel began with a pool of 7,841 suspicious votes, culled from a comparison of California voting records with INS records. That number was whittled down as investigators weeded out individuals who either did not vote or who proved to be qualified to vote after all.

Eventually, Ehlers said, 624 illegal, non-citizen voters were identified, and they were added to the 124 voters that California officials had disqualified because of improperly delivered absentee ballots.

The continuing investigation had become politically treacherous for Republicans. Democrats kept up the pressure by introducing multiple resolutions on the House floor calling for an end to the probe. And they seized on the issue to court Hispanic voters, who are being avidly wooed by both parties out of deference to their growing electoral strength.


That is a GOP-controlled House declined to overturn the election result, it happened in 1996 and a couple of years later she kicked his ass. This is a district that generally votes for moderate dems and republicans and has a typical turnout of 160 thousand voters. What percentage is 624 out of that number?

More? ok....this is also a district that has HUGE numbers of Latinos which is not the case for the general population of the US.

Is your post what they call a red herring?
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 204
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:18:28 AM
No only that, but they didn't "Catch" any illegals voting. They cross referenced names with an INS list. That doesn't even prove that they were the same people. How many Jesus Rodriguezs are there in the California area? Kind of like eliminating all of the John Smiths! And Yes, I know a John Smith!
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 205
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:22:47 AM
.... hey red, I'm an EMT and can maybe help you out with that hole you got in your foot from shooting yourself there....
 Ezzee

Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 206
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:43:27 AM

You have to have car insurance if you drive, should that be free too?


Is there a state law that says you have to have car insurance to vote? If there was, then I'd agree with you.

The law says you have to have a photo ID to vote, not car insurance. To me, that is a poll tax.
 redwood34

Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 207
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:53:26 AM
Well, bob said thanks for the proof of 624 illegals voting, so obviously I'm not the only one who saw it that way...
As for a republican complaining about illegals voting, would it have been more credible if a democrat said it? As I said, democrat politicians don't complain about that issue because they know illegals are more likely to vote democrat if they do vote, so you can't find articles from democrat politicians. I tried to find some from a democrat politician, but couldn't find any. Anyway, I'm neither democrat or republican and loyal to neither(unlike some others here), I just don't want it to be so easy for non-citizens to vote, I don't care for the partisan bs.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 208
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:00:25 AM

I don't care for the partisan bs.


...then why provide fodder for the "right's" perspective? and perhaps you missed exodus's post...#205
 redwood34

Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 209
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:07:57 AM
You make it sound as if only republican voters are concerned about illegals voting. I'm sure some democrat voters care too considering illegal immigration is something both democrats and republicans care about, but granted probably more republicans care than democrats.
As I said, I tried to find articles from democrat politicians concerned about non-citizens voting, but couldn't find any(though I imagine democrats like Nancy Boyda and Gene Taylor do care considering they are some of the few democrats who are tough on illegal immigration and wouldn't want illegals voting against them in elections). It isn't as if I wanted to avoid posting anything from a democrat.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 210
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:14:23 AM
I tried to find some from a democrat politician, but couldn't find any. As I said, democrat politicians don't complain about that issue because they know illegals are more likely to vote democrat if they do vote, so you can't find articles from democrat politicians.

You make it sound as if only republican voters are concerned about illegals voting.


...uhhh no that would be you who makes it seem so.....

(really, you should holster that thing)
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 211
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:14:46 AM

Well, bob said thanks for the proof of 624 illegals voting, so obviously I'm not the only one who saw it that way...
As for a republican complaining about illegals voting, would it have been more credible if a democrat said it?


The complaint was over ten years ago.....

What is the problem ... Proof ... This is an issue every where for a non problem

The people pushing this are only using it... your being baited ...
those pushing the laws do it half a$$ not a fix... They do not care about voter turn out..

they want voter confusion...... 12 nun's turned away... ha This is all crap to screw up voting...

Just like the Machines...Corporations have to count our votes...
Give me a break... are we better off.....
Give me a real problem, not some covert means to destroy of our process...

Locally run elections have worked for many years...

Voting machines are a real issue.... cageing is a real issue....... these are complains of Liberals ?
 lethrnek

Joined: 10/19/2006
Msg: 212
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 1:02:35 PM
In Wisconsin you don't have to have car insurance to drive, you do need proof of car insurance before you drive the car off the lot, but once you do you can cancel it. You do however need a some type of photo ID to buy a car, so why is it that people are ok with that but ok with providing one to vote? Most people drive to the polls anyway. Ezzee, I understand what you're saying about an ID to vote is a poll tax, I just disagree with you.
 Ezzee

Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 213
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 1:54:54 PM
lethrnek, I have no problem with them not requiring an id to buy a car either. I really could care less. If you want to buy a car without photo ID, then great. I don't think the government should necessarily put regulations on that either. There are a lot of things the government does that I don't think they should do. All a part of government trying to run people's lives.
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 214
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:03:14 PM
LN;

I assume you are a Marine? You are sworn to defend the Constitution? Do you only defend it for Republicans? Do you care about the "rights" of your Liberal neighbors?

If the answer is yes, you defend it for all, then why aren't you upset that the 24th Amendment, which states that no poll tax can be enacted. i.e. there can be no cost associated with voting. The poor have every bit as much right to vote as does Bill Gates in America. Why isn't that something that matters to someone defending the Constitution?
 a bit nomadic

Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 215
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:53:41 PM

In Wisconsin you don't have to have car insurance to drive, you do need proof of car insurance before you drive the car off the lot, but once you do you can cancel it. You do however need a some type of photo ID to buy a car, so why is it that people are ok with that but ok with providing one to vote? Most people drive to the polls anyway.


You are right of course, lethrnek. Being able to purchase a car without impediment is every bit as important to our democratic process (and to holding up the principles and substance of our constitution) as being able to vote.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 216
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:21:27 PM
....i'd love to hear how people view the Siegelman voting case, which is so typical for voter fraud as we've come to know it during the present administration...

some have tried so hard to show voter fraud for illegals, sticking to the talking points, but the reality is that fraud is used against democrats these days, not republicans.....
 lethrnek

Joined: 10/19/2006
Msg: 217
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:51:58 AM
Exodus, yes, just like all people who served and are serving in our armed forces we protect the constitution for all citizens of the U.S. and defend it against enimies, foreign adn domestic. If what you say that according to the 24th ammendment there can be no cost associated with voting, requiring an ID to vote is unconstitutional, I say this. It says no poll tax, a tax is a tax is a tax, that does not mean no cost. There will always be a cost incurred with a person's right to vote. When you drive to the poll does it not cost the gas money to get there. For those who don't drive because they can't they are drivine there by someone or some group, the cost of that transportation for those who can't drive is passed on to who, those groups aren't doing it for free because there is no free, there will always be some cost.

The point is to minimize the cost of an ID and to ensure that one who votes is actuall who he/she claims they are, otherwise why not just open the polls to anyone who wants to vote and try to weed out all the fraudulent votes.

I agree, the porr have just as much right to vote as anyone else but the right to vote should be safeguarded as much as possible.

It does matter to me to make sure the constitutional rights of all citizens are protected regardless of status unless you have lost that right which some have. Now how can a right be lost if it's a right. Some people in this country have lost the right to vote because w have rules. If a photo ID was mandatory to vote then we would have to follow that rule, we may not like it but we would still be obligated to follow it.

If we can't make sure that only citizens of the U.S. vote in our elections then how can it be a fair election? How can it be a valid election? I believe that a mandatory ID will only help, not hurt the proces.
 lethrnek

Joined: 10/19/2006
Msg: 218
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:03:52 AM
Nomadic: I wasn't comparing the privilage to drive with the right to vote, I was responding to someone else. But since you think that driving is just as important to voting, I'll give opinion. Driving is not a right, noe in our country has the right to drive or buy a car, we do however have the right to vote as established in the constitution.

We have muddied the constitution enough, and do so, many times for our own greed and benefit but we should never confuse a privilage with a right. The point is that proof of who you are is important because it helps to safeguard the rights we cherish. Without proof of who we are everything we know will fall apart. Some say that a mandatory ID to vote will make it harder for some to vote, I just don't see it, I understand and hear what they say but I don't agree with it.
 flyonthewall!

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 219
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:53:59 AM
This entire argument is stupid. For the people who don't have photo IDs already (i.e., a driver's license), all we have to do is provide a national ID at no cost to them.

The cost to the US would be minimal, because the IDs can be gotten at any DMV.

Problem solved.
 a bit nomadic

Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 220
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:53:00 AM

This entire argument is stupid. For the people who don't have photo IDs already (i.e., a driver's license), all we have to do is provide a national ID at no cost to them.


This is the kind of thing that sends chills down my spine.....and not in a good way.
 jmarquise

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 221
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:21:22 AM
I thought I was the only one nomadic! while I'm at the DMV, can the insert the microchip so I don't get kidnapped? how about the shock collar so I don't go too far.
 spitfire6844

Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 222
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:19:18 AM

No where in the constitution does it say people have the right to vote. It does say that if states give you the ability to vote they can not abridge it based on certain factors, including a tax or fee, which I would argue this is a fee that is being imposed. Oh well, there goes more of my rights.


You are dead wrong. You need to get a copy of the Constitution and read it. First of all, the right to vote is specifically set out in the Constitution, and it can be abridged (for reasons other than race, color, gender, or previous condition of servitude.)

Article 1 of the Constitution deals with the election of U.S. Representatives by the people of "the several states". Article II deals with the election by "electors" of the U.S. President--it doesn't even reference individual voters, only the electoral college. The 15th Amendment states that the right to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. The 19th Amendment states that the right to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State on account of sex.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it state that the right to vote can't be abridged for other reasons (such as breaking the law or not being a U.S. Citizen). That's why felons currently cannot vote and illegal aliens shouldn't be able to vote.

Everything the poster said in the quote at the top is wrong.
 lethrnek

Joined: 10/19/2006
Msg: 223
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:55:06 AM
I agree spitfire6844. I also say why not spend our tax dollars to provide a photo ID to those who can't afford it, very few in our country can't afford one anyway so the one time fee would be minimal, our taxes are alrady supporting dead beats, lazy people, criminals and who knows who else so why not have some of our tax dollar go for a worhty cause.
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 224
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:02:27 AM
That is not sufficient. It doesn't matter if the person can or can't afford it. If there is a cost, as a requirement, associated with the voting process, it is unconstitutional!

If they require IDs, the IDs must be free, for everyone, from bill the Hobo to Bill the Gates.

Otherwise, it is a poll tax.

No, the cost of getting there isn't included, because it isn't a requirement. If they required you to vote in another state, then I would say yes, they would have to provide transportation.

However, there are plenty of LIBERAL organizations that work on election day to provide free transportation to ANYONE who wants to vote.

Liberals are all about making sure everyone's votes are provcessed and counted. We aren't the ones who shred our opponents registrations. In fact, on two seperate occasions I PERSONALLY gave rides to people who cancelled out MY vote. I defend the Constitution, I am tired of the lies that are destroying my Constitution!
 spitfire6844

Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 225
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Photo ID required to vote, good or bad
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:34:37 AM
^^Instead of using the "poll tax" loophole as an excuse to allow illegal aliens to vote, I'm sure we can come up with a way to provide U.S. Citizens (who don't already have State-issued driver's licenses, passports, or Social Security cards) free ID cards so they can vote. It's not a big deal. The OP's point is that voters should provide proof that they are American citizens in order to vote.

When I voted in February (California primary) I was asked to show proof of identity (as was every other person at my polling station). No one complained about it, and everyone had suitable ID. The only people who would have a problem with it are chronic malcontents or people who aren't entitled to vote. The right to vote simply doesn't have the same guarantee of protection from abridgement as does the 2nd Amendment, and for good reason.
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