| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:58:03 PM |
I do feel there should be some punishment though, i am aiming at the attention seekers here, they may be ill, but it isn't depression, they take a few boxes of paracetamol, liver damage sets in, they will need a transplant, why should they bump the list against someone who has lived according to the letter and been waiting longer?
There are people who do it for emotional blackmail also ... especially abusers to try to give their victim a guilt trip. Far as I'm concerned they should never receive a new liver, they should be prosecuted, do time & made to pay back the cost of medical assistance. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:00:17 PM | Leigh you wear your coat of depression as a badge as though you are the only one to of ever suffered it, your not, get over it. In several threads on this topic you are felt to be hard done to because you have been afflicted with this illness, well so have many other millions in the world.
<div class="quote"> Where cost is a factor
do you have any idea how many hours i have been up at night wasting time with time wasters threatening suicide, you have a gut feeling they are taking the PP but you know you cant risk it...
I work for a pathetic wage, i do it because no other organisation has a full concept of the area where i work. i do it because i know, no other organisation out there will pick up the phone when i do. i do it knowing it makes a difference.
Time wasters are ill, they are deluded, but they are taking the time and resources away from other people that genuinely need it. It is not just teenagers either, i have had women in their 40's like this.
<div class="quote"> I am sympathetic but only to those who wish to help themselves , i have no sympathy for attention seekers and those wallowing in self pity
well said.
And as for my past, do i have right to comment? do you really want to go there? there but for the grace of god? yeah, been there been to the pits, Jeese, anyone want to know my history, mail me and i'll tell you, im not putting it on a public forum, but trust me, few people can top my personal experience on this. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:20:53 PM |
Leigh you wear your coat of depression as a badge as though you are the only one to of ever suffered it, your not, get over it. In several threads on this topic you are felt to be hard done to because you have been afflicted with this illness, well so have many other millions in the world.
and like I stated earlier... there are people worse of than me... does that not mean I am allowed to feel a wee bit sorry for my past and what it has done to my children????
do you have any idea how many hours i have been up at night wasting time with time wasters threatening suicide, you have a gut feeling they are taking the PP but you know you cant risk it...
if you feel your wasting your time on these people then your in the wrong job and give people like Tan a good reason not to seek help... sigh... Tan... believe me... most enjoy there job
I work for a pathetic wage, i do it because no other organisation has a full concept of the area where i work. i do it because i know, no other organisation out there will pick up the phone when i do. i do it knowing i makes a difference.
social workers... pysciatrists... cpn's... don't work for pitance... they are the people who help me and I so much appriciate them...
Time wasters are ill, they are deluded, but they are taking the time and resources away from other people that genuinely need it. It is not just teenagers either, i have had women in their 40's like this.
Time wasters are ill??? if they are ill... they are not time wasters... are you in the right job what ever you do????
And as for my past, do i have right to comment
of course you do... this is a forum of debate...
Leigh you wear your coat of depression as a badge as though you are the only one to of ever suffered it, your not, get over it
but there is no need for personal insults.... I never attacked you and you have no reason to attack me just because I have a view on this subject... if you don't like my personal views... you get over it and don't read it... simple isn't it
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:30:34 PM | and like I stated earlier... there are people worse of than me... does that not mean I am allowed to feel a wee bit sorry for my past and what it has done to my children????
What point does it serve ? Why not take a positive stance over your past and say "from here i build "?
When you reach rock bottom you have a solid foundation to re-build on !!
You must not regret the past or turn your back on it but use it positively as a way forward !! | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:33:02 PM |
What point does it serve ? Why not take a positive stance over your past and say "from here i build "? When you reach rock bottom you have a solid foundation to re-build on !!
You must not regret the past or turn your back on it but use it positively as a way forward !!
if it was as easy as that we wouldn't have mental problems would we... sigh.. I give up... I will leave it alone now... yeah forget the past it is so easy... woohoo... I am cured... | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:38:34 PM |
and like I stated earlier... there are people worse of than me... does that not mean I am allowed to feel a wee bit sorry for my past and what it has done to my children????
yes your allowed to feel sorry for yourself, you don't wollow in it. CBT might come in handy there...
your kids? children only suffer as much as you let them. its up to you to seek the right help, up to you to make sure it has no adverse effects, hence why in my last post i added the word GUILT
Time wasters are ill??? if they are ill... they are not time wasters... are you in the right job what ever you do????
time wasters are ill, if they feel they need to pick up the phone for attention there is something they are lacking, its not depression, it is not what i am there for. this thread is about punishing attempted suicides, of whom a good proportion are time wasters. i have noted genuine people in genuine need are often so far down the line it is all meticulously planned out and not a split second decision, no-one knows what the ill person is going to do so there is no way of stopping it.
but there is no need for personal insults.... I never attacked you and you have no reason to attack me just because I have a view on this subject... if you don't like my personal views... you get over it and don't read it... simple isn't it
you threw down this comment responding to mine.... simple etiquette for me to reply no?
attention seekers???? those who fail to kill themselves you mean? taking a few boxes of paracetamol is lethal... if they survive.. it is not intentional.... they are mentally ill, yes they deserve the same treatment as anyone else
And last but not least, you really believe that most CPN's and social workers enjoy their job? do you have no idea how many stress related sick days they take? and for your information, they do work for a pittance. the hours they put in, the work load, whilst its not the same wage as your average factory worker, they have studied for at least 3 years for this.
oh and i can peace out too...
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:46:30 PM | if it was as easy as that we wouldn't have mental problems would we... sigh.. I give up... I will leave it alone now... yeah forget the past it is so easy... woohoo... I am cured...
Some people move forward and some people wear the victim badge with pride!!
Your choice !!
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:55:32 PM |
Some people move forward and some people wear the victim badge with pride!!
Your choice !!
IMO ... there are people that will always be victims ... but I wouldn't necessarily say they all wear the badge with pride - & I wouldn't agree all victims always have a choice. I guess it depends on learned behaviour alot, how you were conditioned to cope with things as a child, which then leads to if & how a trauma/abuse affects you later in life.
In saying that ... even though I understand it, doesn't mean I don't find self pity exasperating & infuriating. Like Fiona I've also had to stay on a helpline for three hours whilst someone chose to end their life, until their 'dying breath' ...only for them to call back the next night to repeat the whole process. (She was drunk, pretending to have overdosed & was a regular caller) ... Yep, she's sick - but to have no empathy as to how she was affecting me - tells me she's a selfish attention seeker & I've no time for emotional vampires.  ... I would have had her charged with something if I could too!!! | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:07:17 AM |
IMO ... there are people that will always be victims ... but I wouldn't necessarily say they all wear the badge with pride - & I wouldn't agree all victims always have a choice. I guess it depends on learned behaviour alot, how you were conditioned to cope with things as a child, which then leads to if & how a trauma/abuse affects you later in life.
In saying that ... even though I understand it, doesn't mean I don't find self pity exasperating & infuriating. Like Fiona I've also had to stay on a helpline for three hours whilst someone chose to end their life, until their 'dying breath' ...only for them to call back the next night to repeat the whole process. (She was drunk, pretending to have overdosed & was a regular caller) ... Yep, she's sick - but to have no empathy as to how she was affecting me - tells me she's a selfish attention seeker & I've no time for emotional vampires. ... I would have had her charged with something if I could too!!!
I disagree with this because it's wrong. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:38:41 AM |
There are people who do it for emotional blackmail also ... especially abusers to try to give their victim a guilt trip.
Yep, there are, usually people with BPD or MPD. my ex was one.
doesn't mean they are in their right minds . they're mentally ill y'see.
http://www.echo.me.uk/bpd1.htm#criterion
But personality disorders are a whole different kettle of fish.
They feel they have the perfect right to play victim (not meant as a put-down). attention-seeking disorder. or to feel they're worse off than anyone else (histrionic personality disorder). or feel more worthy of attention (narcissisitic personality disorder)Snap and blame everyone else (anti-social behaviour disorder).
They have no wherewithall to take responsibility for their words/actions/feelings, so, blame everyone else. making everyone else responsible for them.
as for depression and suicide.
medication!
Some think "oh i feel ok today " or..... "im going to try and cope without the pills today"
WRONG!!!
it causes inconsistancies, serotonin levels can drop pretty rapidly, you're on medication for a reason. same as if it was anti biotics you finish the course, with anti D's you should never stop them without a Dr saying you can, they should be cut down slowly.
some complain...... oh i was fine but suddenly im angry unhappy depressed again, just missing one anti D will have an effect that can last days or weeks, and sometimes doesnt present until a week or two later, baffling everyone.
But.... i STILL don't think that anyone attempting suicide should be punished. you need to get to root cause. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:10:53 AM |
IMO ... there are people that will always be victims ... but I wouldn't necessarily say they all wear the badge with pride - & I wouldn't agree all victims always have a choice.
I agree, hence why i quoted "some" .
I guess it depends on learned behaviour alot, how you were conditioned to cope with things as a child, which then leads to if & how a trauma/abuse affects you later in life.
I disagree. Forget about the text book stuff, its all about getting off your ass and doing something about it , its about truly "having had enough" (rock bottom) and trying to unlock all the doors that may lead you out of your dilemma.
If i had adopted learned behaviour/coping mechanisms from my childhood, i would be dead now !!
There was a fella in rehab who was sexually abused twice as a kid and he tried to hang himself several times over the years. He went on in life and become addicted to booze and cocaine . The councellor asked him " Are you trying to tell me that everytime you walk into a pub to get pisssed you are thinking about the abuse you suffered?" His reply was "no" . He had used his abuse as an excuse in his own mind for his addiction and other areas in his life where his abuse become a get out clause for things he didnt want to face.
He had a choice , he made a decision , dropped the self pity and moved forward .
Some however are unable to make that choice through their own mental anguish and those are the ones truly deserving sympathy. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:37:35 AM | I think there are issues that need to be mentioned, if you are depressed you are given antidepressants, sent away and told you are on a waiting list for counselling. The waiting list can be as much as 5 months or so...... Tablets alone are not the answer for some deep seated problems.
No wonder people do decide to end it at times, to call people selfish, well you obviously do not understand real depression, it is a mental illness that when very bad you have no control over it and you do NOT think rationally, you have no feelings at all whether it be guilt, sadness, happiness etc. In these extreme cases where people take their lives they are void of any rational thoughts and feelings.
No attempted suicide should NOT be made punishable. 
A x | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:57:14 AM | How would punishing a failed suicide attempter work if its seen to be done fairly?
All cases have there own reasons for attempting to end it.
would a young girl who has been subjected to years of abuse from her carer,then finds herself having to have an abortion from that abuse be treat equally to any other type of "offender"?
Would it be of any benifit to anyone to add sentence to someone who has been jailed for an addiction problem that they had lapsed temperarily from becouse they have trouble at that time dealing with there issues?
Would there or could there be a fair and ridgid sentencing tarriff that addresses all possible cases?
To my mind the only people who deserve sentencing are those who deliberately or consequently endangered or successfully have harmed others physical wellbeing and/or mental health.
Maybe there are cases where an attempted suicide has inflicted great alarm and disstress to an innocent person/s by naming them as a cause of there actions via say a suicide note or video naming an individual/s for causing there attempt.
The cruelty of such accusations that may just have been a last nasty dig at people who dont deserve it should,in my oppinion be punishable,at some stage. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 2:32:14 AM | not quite sure where i stand on this one!!!!!!!!!!!
i think something should be done with people who fail suicide, and not just a little bit of help until they try the next time,
i think there are many types of people and suicides
there are people who want to die and will put a bullet through their head or jump off beachy head or under a train where there is no coming back from and they know that, they want to die end of and if someone stops them they will succeed another time,
then there are some in between who might want something to stop but maybe not be dead but dont really think of the consequences
and then there are the drama kings and queens who will swallow the paracetamol with the vodka and cry and if they are lucky someone will find them pump their stomach
they all need help but maybe if there was more of a threat of punishment those who really dont want to die but need help might just think about getting the help rather than trying to cop out of it.
i will never forgive my friend for trying to commit suicide and then calling me when i lived hundreds of miles away. if i had got in my car she would have been dead by the time i had got there so i had to wait while police down here contacted police up there to go and break down her door and take her to hospital and even then they had to call me to make sure i knew she had called and that i thought she had really done this | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 4/30/2008 2:43:47 AM | with regards to people being or playing the victims through things like this yes there are some that do, there are more that dont.
after a diagnosis it can take quite some time to get your head round it, especially when the diagnosis leads straight into you having to relive all that caused you to be where you are, you are basically reliving what happened back then so yes you are a victim again at that point. slowly over time and with help you come out of the victim status and begin to move on with your life, but if you have children you worry that they will have been affected by what happened to you and that will stay you and you spend forever watching for possible signs, its guilt! (more than likely unwarranted but its usually still there)
also if someone in a debate like this (or several as is happening on here right now) speaks out about their own circumstances to help others, it can eaily be seen as victim status but it isnt necessarily so, it could well be (as i do) letting people know what happened to you, small bits of info given by yourself can be enough for another person to realise somethiing isnt quite right and if info given by me helps just one person to get help then i am happy. the more people who have mental health problems who are open the better as it allows people with problems to see there is nothing wrong in getting help. its time to bring it out of the dark. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 1:52:40 AM |
There are people who do it for emotional blackmail also ... especially abusers to try to give their victim a guilt trip. Far as I'm concerned they should never receive a new liver, they should be prosecuted, do time & made to pay back the cost of medical assistance.
I think you might be right on this one, and you have a nice arrse too. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 3:45:11 AM |
Forget about the text book stuff, its all about getting off your ass and doing something about it , its about truly "having had enough" (rock bottom) and trying to unlock all the doors that may lead you out of your dilemma.
For some people, "rock bottom" means death...there's no coming back from that! But regardless of how low you sink, if you have someone there to lend a helping hand/sympathetic ear/practical advice/whatever it takes, coming back from the black hole is easier.
But what about those out there who don't have anybody? It must be a long, hard, lonely climb when you've got nobody to hold your hand...punishing them won't achieve anything other than to make them feel even more guilty. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 4:00:49 AM |
For some people, "rock bottom" means death...there's no coming back from that!
The ultimate rock bottom yes i agree , these are the ones i sympathise with.
But regardless of how low you sink, if you have someone there to lend a helping hand/sympathetic ear/practical advice/whatever it takes, coming back from the black hole is easier.
Again i agree, however they have got to want that help surely or your efforts will be in vain ?
But what about those out there who don't have anybody?
When your at rock bottom , you are alone and thats where you need to be.
Its only when you truly want that help you start looking up and start talking to the right people and looking in the right places.
Theres help for everything and everyone , you have just got to be desperate enough to want it !! | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 4:18:05 AM | suicides are always a last resort,and attempted one i think are more a cry for help.yes i have dealt with someone who hits rock bottom and have fought to get them back up and yes they attempted suicide more than once.
what i say is
if they have children,just take a few seconds to look at what will happen to that child,you think things are hard on them with you there?think what happens when your not..childrens home,the street,they now have to carry with them the rest of their lives that their parent wasnt there to look after them,thier lives will be made much worse without you being their than knowing you loved them enough to stay there for them.
no it shouldnt be punishable. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 4:44:26 AM | | There are the suicides where the only hurt caused is to the friends and family around them but I have a friend of a friend who chose to jump off a motorway bridge and was hit by a car he is now in a wheel chair and the driver of the car apparently had a nervous breakdown as a result of the accident. Perhaps these people should think what effect their actions might have on other innocent peoples lives before they consider such actions. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 10:14:17 AM | | Well ok, but in the name of consistency, just as those who commit murder are punished worse than those that actually attempt it, those who are successful at suicide should be punished worse than those who only attempt it. | |
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| Should Attempted Suicide Be Made Punishable ?
Posted: 5/1/2008 12:21:32 PM | | but... sorry back again,,, my soon to be ex husband actually did this once and awful as it sounds,, it was such attention seeking,, even left powder marks round his lips,,, left few tablets in sink,,, but still think help needed | |
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