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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:10:41 PM |
NO MATTER WHAT POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE WHEN YOU CALL A PERSON OR AN ENTIRE COUNTRY ANYTHING SIMILAR TO HITLER OR NAZIS THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND IS THAT YOU ARE CALLING THAT PERSON OR COUNTRY A MASS MURDER ON THE SCALE OF THE HOLOCAUST
So.....
Is it the mass murder thing that bothers you? Or simply its SCALE..... | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:17:02 PM | | its both. its the way it was carried out. its pretty much everything about it. and its not just me its almost everyone. if you are seriously bothered by Americas involvement in Iraq, or Afganistan, or Vietnam or Korea as much as you are with the Holocaust you are in a very tiny small minorty of people. I don't agree with Iraq, or Afganistan, or Vietnem, or Korea but compairing them to the Holocaust is is plain false and makes you sound foolish to almost anyone. Whenever anyone mentions America being even in the same realm as that....well like ive been saying its a conversation stopper. Unless of course you are a Michael Moore liberal | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:17:57 PM | Not to highjack his thread, but has anyone seen this site
loosechange911dot com wasn't sure about linking rules. can't be bothered to look now.
What do you think about this stuff? I for one find it very interesting, and it has led me to research stuff for the last several years. Sometimes I come across some real bs, but a lot of it seems real and totally plausible. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:20:35 PM | | And before anyone starts bashing me about patriotism...I'm a gulf war vet, my family has served in every almost every conflict we have had as a country since WW1. I used to be a fireman, and a paramedic, and I love what America is supposed to stand for. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:27:16 PM | SS,I don't personally compare the Holocaust to our invasions of those countries, and I said in my second to last post on this thread how I think the comparison is useful. Suffice it so say that if I want to talk about the democratic creation of a fascist-leaning state using bigotry and nationalism to create an excuse for an unethical, militaristic foreign policy, while attacking the individual rights of its citizens in the process...then the obvious point of comparison is Nazi Germany
Edit: And if people find that troubling.....well they SHOULD. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:10:42 PM | Ah yes the America is no different than Nazi Germany and President Bush is Hitler reincarnated argument. I really just don't understand why anyone buys into that BS.
Are we rounding up Moslems and executing them because of their race or religion? No.
Is Guantanamo Bay a giant execution chamber? No.
Does our military have some of the strictest rules of engagement around the world in order to limit the loss of innocent life as much as possible? Yes.
Do we purposely target innocent people? No.
Are we using extremely expensive laser guided weapons to limit unnecessary damage and death? Yes.
Whether or not people agree with the war is one thing, comparing the President to Hitler and our country to Nazi Germany is simply idiotic. We don't have a policy of exterminating people because of their religion or race! I don't know how much more glaringly obvious such a significant difference between America and Nazi Germany there can be.
Here's a quote I like:
"With the eloquence of a drunk eating his own puke, you stumbled through this fact completely oblivious. "
-Maddox | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:12:10 PM |
those of you who are so smug and think america will be the true 1000 year reich, remember what happened to the third
So would that make Gordon Brown the 21th century incarnate of Neville Chamberlain?? | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:35:59 PM | jimi~
first of all, we are not the 4th reich. we have elections. we have a chipmunk for president who will be stepping down shortly. also, there are literally NO similarities between the out going chipmunk, W, and adolf hitler. if you reallllyyyyyyy need me to educate you on the differences, i will begrudgingly do so... keep in mind that the nazi's were socialists! if you do that it might help....
you are engaging in what i like to call dysphemisms...exagerations and distortions as a result of being in the throws of a full fledged catastrophising tantrum. what you are saying is bull, and either you ahve no educational background to draw on or you are missing half a brain... there is no other explanation....
lara | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 9:05:03 PM |
you are engaging in what i like to call dysphemisms...exagerations and distortions as a result of being in the throws of a full fledged catastrophising tantrump
ha ha. Kind of like calling George Bush a "chipmunk"?
Pretty lethal chipmunk.
I don't find the OP to this thread particularly edifying or insightful, but don't you think responding with a dismissal of Bush's impact like this is a bit insulting to the hundreds of thousands (or more) of people in the world whose lives he has destroyed? | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/3/2008 11:19:01 PM | random:
Ah yes the America is no different than Nazi Germany and President Bush is Hitler reincarnated argument. I really just don't understand why anyone buys into that BS.
Looks like another one that just rolled out of bed and decided to educate us in history. No one said america is "No Different" than nazi germany, you are making that up. No one said Bushco was hitler reincarnated either, but then that does not mean that his modus operandi isnt the same.
The Best Enemies Money Can Buy
From Hitler To Saddam Hussein to Osama bin Laden - Insider Connections and the Bush Family's Partnership with Killers of Americans
Brown Brothers, Harriman - BNL- and the Carlyle Group
By
Michael C. Ruppert
[© Copyright 2001. All Rights Reserved, Michael C. Ruppert and From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com. May be reprinted or distributed for non-profit purposes only.]
FTW, Oct. 9, 2001 - Since the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, major media powerhouses and the increasingly influential alternative media alike have begun to focus attention on Bush family connections and a long history of arming and financing America's attackers in the months and years prior to the outbreak of war. Recent stories in the Wall Street Journal (Sept. 27 & 28, 2001), ABC News (Oct. 1, 2001), as well as a host of reports from so-called alternative news sources have begun to focus attention on the Bush family's profit-making role in creating and arming our enemies.
The following is a more comprehensive look at the documented history of these relationships that will also open some new avenues of inquiry for the press, Congress and the American people.
In a world now filled with biowarfare agents, backpack nuclear devices, and chemical weapons like Sarin gas -- where there are people in many countries with reasons to oppose the United States -- the Bush Administration is following predictable strategies in a way that redefines the concept of brinksmanship. Human survival may depend upon the will and the ability of both the Congress and the press to focus on these relationships and to take appropriate action. Moreover - and I am not the first to say this - if a national security priority is to seize the financial assets of those who support terrorists, then perhaps we should start right here at home.
---
Adolph Hitler
Meticulous research, including U.S. government records from the era, along with contemporaneous news stories from the New York Times and other papers is presented in the 1992 book entitled, "George Bush, The Unauthorized Biography" by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin, Published by The Executive Intelligence Review and located at http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm. The following is sourced entirely from Chapter II of this essential work. [Note: Although FTW does not always agree with conclusions reached by the Executive Intelligence Review, or its founder Lyndon La Rouche, we have never found a single flaw in any of their factual research. History is history, no matter who presents it. And this history is essential to understanding our era.]
George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was the Managing Director of the investment bank Brown Brothers, Harriman from the 1920s through the 1940s. It was Brown Brothers, in conjunction with Averell Harriman, the Rockefeller family, Standard Oil, the DuPonts, the Morgans and the Fords who served as the principal funding arm in helping to finance Adolph Hitler's rise to power starting in 1923. This included direct funding for the SS and SA channeled through a variety of German firms. Prescott Bush, through associations with the Hamburg-Amerika Steamship line, Nazi banker Fritz Thyssen (pronounced Tee-sen), Standard Oil of Germany, The German Steel Trust (founded by Dillon Read founder, Clarence Dillon), and I.G. Farben, used the Union Bank Corporation to funnel vast quantities of money to the Nazis and to manage their American interests. The profits from those investments came back to Bush allies on Wall Street. Thyssen is universally regarded as having been Hitler's private banker and ultimate owner of the Union Bank Corporation.
Early support for Hitler came from Prescott Bush through the Hamburg-Amerika Steamship line -- also funded by Brown Bothers -- that funneled large sums of money and weapons to Hitler's storm troopers in the 1920s.
According to Tarpley and Chaitkin, "In May 1933, just after the Hitler regime was consolidated, an agreement was reached in Berlin for the coordination of all Nazi commerce with the U.S.A. The Harriman International Company... was to head a syndicate of 150 firms and individuals, to conduct all exports from Hitler Germany to the United States."
Furthermore, a 1942 U.S. government investigative report that surfaced during 1945 Senate hearings found that the Union Bank, with Prescott Bush on the board, was an "interlocking concern" with the German Steel Trust that had produced:
- 50.8% of Nazi Germany's pig iron
- 41.4% of Nazi Germany's universal plate
- 36% of Nazi Germany's heavy plate
- 38.5% of Nazi Germany's galvanized sheet
- 45.5% of Nazi Germany's pipes and tubes
- 22.1% of Nazi Germany's wire
- 35% of Nazi Germany's explosives
The business relationships established by Bush in 1923 continued even after the war started until they became so offensive and overt as to warrant seizure by the U.S. government under the Trading with the Enemy Act in 1942.
In 1942, "Under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government took over Union Banking Corporation, in which Bush was a director. The U.S. Alien Property Custodian seized Union Banking Corp.'s stock shares...
"... all of which shares are held for the benefit of... members of the Thyssen family, [and] is property of nationals... of a designated enemy country."
"On October 28, the government issued orders seizing two Nazi front organizations run by the Bush-Harriman bank: the Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation."
"Nazi interests in the Silesian-American Corporation, long managed by Prescott Bush and his father in law George Herbert Walker, were seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act on Nov. 17, 1942..." These seizures of Bush businesses were reported in a number of American papers including The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.
Prescott Bush went on to become an influential Republican Senator from Connecticut who went on to be a regular golfing partner of President Dwight Eisenhower. His attorneys were the lawyers John Foster and Allen Dulles, the later became the CIA Director under Eisenhower.
Saddam Hussein
After becoming President in January 1989, Prescott Bush's son, George Herbert Walker Bush - father of our current President - authorized a series of programs that not only armed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein but also provided him with technology that assisted in his development of chemical weapons like Sarin gas, and biological weapons, which he still possesses. Apologists for Bush (the elder) say that, after the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s left the region unstable, he was just trying to establish a new balance of power. Not so. Bush directives and policies, including relationships with the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL) were directly and deliberately responsible for creating the army the U.S. fought in 1991.
A story by Russ W. Baker, in the March/April issue the Columbia Journalism Review (CJR), provided the most compelling overview of Iraqgate that I have seen.
"ABC News Nightline opened last June 9 with words to make the heart stop ÔIt is becoming increasingly clear,' said a grave Ted Koppel, Ôthat George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into the aggressive power that the United States ultimately had to destroy...
"Why, then, have some of our top papers provided so little coverage?" Baker poignantly asks.
" The result: readers who neither grasp nor care about the facts behind facile imagery like The Butcher of Baghdad and Operation Desert Storm. In particular, readers who do not follow the story of the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, which apparently served as a paymaster for Saddam's arms buildup, and thus became a player in the largest bank-fraud case in U.S. history.
"Complex, challenging, mind-boggling stories (from Iran-Contra to the S&L crisis to BCCI) increasingly define our times: yet we don't appear to be getting any better at telling them...
"Much of what Saddam received from the West was not arms per se, but so-called dual-use technology -- ultra sophisticated computers, armored ambulances, helicopters, chemicals, and the like, with potential civilian uses as well as military applications. We've learned that a vast network of companies, based in the U.S. and abroad, eagerly fed the Iraqi war machine right up until August 1990, when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
"And we've learned that the obscure Atlanta Branch of Italy's largest bank, Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, relying partly on U.S. taxpayer-guaranteed loans, funneled $5 billion to Iraq from 1985 to 1989. Some government-backed loans were supposed to be for agricultural purposes, but were used to facilitate the purchase of stronger stuff than wheat. Federal Reserve and Agriculture department memos warned of suspected abuses by Iraq, which apparently took advantage of the loans to free up funds for munitions. U.S. taxpayers have been left holding the bag for what looks like $2 billion in defaulted loans to Iraq.
"... In fact, we now know that in February 1990, then Attorney General****Thornburgh [appointed by George H.W. Bush] blocked U.S. investigators from traveling to Rome and Istanbul to pursue the case...
"... As New York Times columnist William Safire argued last December 7, ÔIraqgate is uniquely horrendous: a scandal about the Systematic abuse of power by misguided leaders of three democratic nations [The U.S., Britain, and Italy] to secretly finance the arms buildup of a dictator."
While Democrat Henry Gonzales, Chairman of the House Banking Committee during the period, stood as the lone voice from the wilderness in raising alarms about Bush's obvious corruption, the rest of the Congress sheepishly ignored all the signs demanding immediate action. Gonzales' voice reportedly fell silent after his empty car was machine-gunned in a Washington suburb in what passed for a drive-by shooting.
The CJR continues: "Meanwhile, The Village Voice published a major investigation by free-lancer Murray Waas in its December 18, 1990 issue... "That American troops could be killed or maimed because of a covert decision to arm Iraq,' Waas wrote, "is the most serious consequence of a U.S. foreign policy formulated and executed in secret, without the advice and consent of the American public..."
The L.A. Times, on Feb 23, 1992, dug deep enough to find secret National Security Decision Directives by the Bush Administration in 1989 ordering closer ties with Baghdad and paving the way for $1 billion in new aid. The Times' series, co-authored with Waas, emphasized that, "buried deep in a 1991 Washington Press piece - that Secretary of State James Baker, after meeting with Iraqi foreign minister Tariq Aziz in October 1989, intervened personally to support U.S. government loans guarantees to Iraq."
Baker's CJR report also noted, "On October 3, the [Wall Street] Journal reported [BNL official Christopher] Drogoul's assertion that the director general of Iraq's Ministry of Industry and Military Production had told him, ÔWe are all in this together. The intelligence service of the U.S. government works very closely with the intelligence service of the Iraqi government.' Three weeks later, the Journal reported that [Henry] Gonzales Ôproduced a phone-book-sized packet of documents' showing the involvement of U.S. exporting firms... The documents mentioned one... which designed parts for Iraq's howitzers and was financed through BNL..."
In the wake of highly suspicious anthrax outbreaks in Florida, just miles from where several of the WTC suicides pilots trained, we add one final note. In his 1998 book "Bringing the War Home" author William Thomas writes, " Under that same [weapons transfer] program, 19 containers of Anthrax bacteria were supplied to Iraq in 1988 by the American Type Culture Collection company, located near Fort Detrick, MD, the site of the US Army's high security germ warfare labs."
The Carlyle Group, the Bushes and bin Laden
The warnings about the Carlyle Group, the nation's 11th largest defense contractor, and the Bushes came long before the World Trade Center attacks. The Carlyle Group is a closely held corporation, exempt, for that reason, from reporting its affairs to the Securities and Exchange Commission. Little is known of what it actually does except that it buys and sells defense contractors. As of October 4, 2001, it has removed its corporate web site from the World Wide Web making further investigation through that channel impossible. Its Directors include Frank Carlucci, former Reagan Secretary of Defense; James Baker, former Bush Secretary of State; and Richard Darman, a former White House aide to Ronald Reagan and Republican Party operative.
On March 3, 2001, just weeks after George W Bush's inauguration, the conservative Washington lobbying group Judicial Watch issued a press release. It said:
"(Washington, D.C.) Judicial Watch, the public interest law firm that investigates and prosecutes government abuse and corruption, called on former President George Herbert Walker Bush to resign immediately from the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm, while his son President George W. Bush is in office. Today's New York Times reported that the elder Bush is an "ambassador" for the $12 billion private investment firm and last year traveled to the Middle East on its behalf. The former president also helped the firm in South Korea.
"The New York Times reported that as compensation, the elder Bush is allowed to buy a stake in the Carlyle Group's investments, which include ownership in at least 164 companies throughout the world (thereby by giving the current president an indirect benefit). James Baker, the former Secretary of State who served as President George W. Bush's point man in Florida's election dispute, is a partner in the firm. The firm also gave George W. Bush help in the early 1990's when it placed him on one of its subsidiary's board of directors.
"This is simply inappropriate. Former President Bush should immediately resign from the Carlyle Group because it is an obvious conflict of interest. Any foreign government or foreign investor trying to curry favor with the current Bush Administration is sure to throw business to the Carlyle Group. And with the former President Bush promoting the firm's investments abroad, foreign nationals could understandably confuse the Carlyle Group's interests with the interests of the United States government," stated Larry Klayman, Judicial Watch Chairman and General Counsel.
"Questions are now bound to be raised if the recent Bush Administration change in policy towards Iraq has the fingerprints of the Carlyle Group, which is trying to gain investments from other Arab countries who [sic] would presumably benefit from the new policy," stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton."
Judicial Watch noted that "even the Clinton Administration called on the Rodham brothers to stop their business dealings in [The former Soviet Republic of] Georgia because those dealings started to destabilize that country."
Since the WTC attacks the Wall Street Journal has reported (Sept. 28, 2001) that, "George H.W. Bush, the father of President Bush, works for the bin Laden family business in Saudi Arabia through the Carlyle Group, an international consulting firm." The senior Bush had met with the bin Laden family at least twice in the last three years - 1998 and 2000 -- as a representative of Carlyle, seeking to expand business dealings with one of the wealthiest Saudi families, which some experts argue, has never fully severed its ties with black sheep Osama in spite of current reports in a mainstream press that is afraid of offending the current administration.
The Nation, on March 27, 2000 - in a story co-authored by David Corn and Paul Lashmar - wrote, "In January former President George Bush and former British Prime Minister John Major paid a social call on Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Abdullah..." This story confirms at least one meeting between the elder Bush and Saudi leaders, including the bin Ladens. That the bin Ladens attended this meeting was confirmed in a subsequent September 27, 2001 Wall Street Journal (WSJ) story. The January 2000 meeting with the bin Ladens was also later confirmed by Bush (the elder's) Chief of Staff Jean Becker, only after the WSJ presented her with a thank you note sent by Bush to the bin Ladens after that meeting.
James Baker visited the bin Ladens in 1998 and 1999 with Carlyle CEO Frank Carlucci.
The WSJ story went on to note, "A Carlyle executive said that the bin Laden family committed $2 million through a London investment arm in 1995 in Carlyle Partners II Fund, which raised $1.3 billion overall. The fund has purchased several aerospace companies among 29 deals. So far, the family has received $1.3 million back in completed investments and should ultimately realize a 40% annualized rate of return, the Carlyle executive said.
"But a foreign financier with ties to the bin Laden family says the family's overall investment with Carlyle is considerably larger..."
In other words, Osama bin Laden's attacks on the WTC and Pentagon, with the resulting massive increase in the U.S. defense budget have just made his family a great big pile of money.
More Bush connections appear in relation to the bin Ladens. The WSJ story also notes that, "During the past several years, the [bin Laden] family's close ties to the Saudi royal family prompted executives and staff from closely held New York publisher Forbes, Inc. to make two trips to the family headquarters, according to Forbes Chairman Caspar Weinberger, a former U.S. Secretary of Defense in the Reagan administration. ÔWe would call on them to get their view of the country and what would be of interest to investors.'"
President G.H.W. Bush pardoned Weinberger for his criminal conduct in the Iran-Contra scandal in 1989.
Our current President, George W. Bush has also had -- at minimum -- indirect dealings with Carlyle and the bin Ladens. In 1976 his firm Arbusto Energy was funded with $50,000 from Texas investment banker James R. Bath who was also the U.S. investment counselor for the bin Laden family. In his watershed 1992 book, "The Mafia, The CIA and George Bush," award winning Texas investigative journalist Pete Brewton dug deeply into Bath's background, revealing connections with the CIA and major fraudulent activities connected with the Savings & Loan scandal that took $500 billion out of the pockets of American taxpayers. A long-time friend of George W. Bush, Bath was connected to a number of covert financing operations in the Iran-Contra scandal, which also linked to bin Laden friend Adnan Khashoggi. One of the richest men in the world, Khashoggi was the arms merchant at the center of the whole Iran-Contra scandal. Khashoggi, whose connections to the bin Ladens is more than superficial, got his first business break by acting as middle-man for a large truck purchase by Osama bin Laden's older brother, Salem.
Another key player in the Bush Administration, Deputy Secretary of Defense Richard Armitage, left his post as an Assistant Secretary of Defense in the Reagan Administration after a series of scandals connected to CIA operatives Ed Wilson, Ted Shackley, Richard Secord and Tom Clines placed him at the brink of criminal indictment and jail. Shackley and Secord are veterans of Vietnam operations and have long been linked to opium/heroin smuggling. The Armitage scandals all focused on the illegal provision of weapons and war materiel to potential or actual enemies of the U.S. and to the Contras in Central America.
Armitage, a former Navy SEAL, who reportedly enjoyed combat missions and killing during covert operations in Laos during the Vietnam War, has never been far from the Bush family's side. Throughout his career, both in and out of government, he has been perpetually connected to CIA drug smuggling operations. Secretary of State Colin Powell, in a 1995 Washington Post story, called Armitage, "my white son." In 1990, then President Bush dispatched Armitage to Russia to aid in its "transition" to capitalism. Armitage's Russian work for Bush has been frequently connected to the explosion of drug trafficking under the Russian Mafias, which became virtual rulers of the nation afterwards. In the early 1990s Armitage had extensive involvement in Albania at the same time that the Albanian ally, Kosovo Liberation Army was coming to power and consolidating its grip, according to The Christian Science Monitor, on 70% of the heroin entering western Europe. [See FTW Vol. II, No 2 - April 24, 1999]
Armitage and Carlucci are both Board Members of the influential Washington think tank, the Middle East Policy Council.
The connections continue with Vice President****Cheney. Amongst the multitude of oil pipeline construction running through the new war zone is one project - according to a Sept. 19, 2001 Wall Street Journal story - a joint venture in which the bin Laden family joined with the construction firm H.C. Price. A researcher named "Phoenix," writing for the Internet news site Rumor Mills News Agency located at www.rumormillnews.com, reported that Price subsequently changed its name to Bredero Shaw, Inc. and is now owned by a subsidiary of the Halliburton Corporation, Dresser Industries. It was Dresser industries that gave George H.W. Bush his first post war job in 1948. A check of the relevant corporate web sites has confirmed this.
Vice President****Cheney, who served as Secretary of Defense during Desert Storm, directing the campaign against Saddam Hussein, was Halliburton's CEO until last year's election.
And, according to a 2000 story from Harper's Magazine, in 1990 our current President, through a position as a corporate director of Caterair, owned by the Carlyle Group - at a time when the bin Laden's were invested in Carlyle - had additional connections to the bin Laden family. In addition, on March 1, 1995, when George W. Bush was Texas governor and a senior Trustee of the university, the University of Texas Endowment voted to place $10 million in investments with the Carlyle Group. As to how much of that money went to the bin Ladens we can only guess. But we do know that there is a long tradition in the Bush family of giving money to those who kill Americans.
Now, as the people of America are beginning to awaken to what is really being unleashed upon them, as a few brave souls are asking who's going to get all the money the Bush Administration is "borrowing" from government coffers and who's going to pay for it - the above history is more than ominous.
Considering that during the 1980s, under the pretext of fighting a Sandinista regime in Nicaragua that never once launched an attack on the U.S., these same people oversaw an explosion in U.S. cocaine consumption that went from 80 metric tons in 1979 to 600 metric tons in 1989 - considering that the CIA trained and equipped death squads that tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands of people from Guatemala to Panama - considering that these same people have brutalized Iraq, leaving portions of it radioactively contaminated by depleted uranium for the next 4 billion years and causing a fivefold increase in the number of childhood leukemia cases amidst a starving population, one can only wonder what they will produce for the world now given the context of the World Trade Center attacks.
Are we rounding up Moslems and executing them because of their race or religion? No.
Nope we are just shooting them dead and dumping 700,000 tons of depleted uranium on their country for their oil. Religion aint worth a red cent
Is Guantanamo Bay a giant execution chamber? No.
No its just where they fly people they want to hold without the luxury of a constitution so they can torture them indefinitely. Then SCOTUS ruled that bushco boys are war criminals. Missed that didnt you?
Does our military have some of the strictest rules of engagement around the world in order to limit the loss of innocent life as much as possible? Yes.
Yeh thats why we spread uranium all over iraq.
Do we purposely target innocent people? No.
Oh so stopping searching how many US citizens to write 1500 traffic tickets and calling any crime terror and the fbi stating that anyone defending the constitution is a terrorist is not a targeting innocent citizens huh? cough...
Are we using extremely expensive laser guided weapons to limit unnecessary damage and death? Yes.
yeh and depleted uranium rounds to shoot em with LOL You think these guys carry laser guided shoulder mounted weapons and the whole war is fought that way?
Whether or not people agree with the war is one thing, comparing the President to Hitler and our country to Nazi Germany is simply idiotic. We don't have a policy of exterminating people because of their religion or race! I don't know how much more glaringly obvious such a significant difference between America and Nazi Germany there can be.
We have a policy for exterminating people for oil not race or religion. We have a policy for exterminating people who want to use the mutha of all wmds "euros"
Here watch this then go back to sleep man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORL3Ekpv0A&NR=1
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/4/2008 12:22:30 AM | | Nice post. What Americans have a hard time with is reality and how truely evil our government can be. They no little or nothing about what the NSA, CIA,FBI,DEA, and so forth do around the world. Jus tno clue. And they assume it like all for the betterment of the masses. It is just too much for them to handle to accept the fact that we are the spearhead of a global dictitorial government. Christians would call it the anti christ. We are arrogant beyond redemption as demonstrated by our policy of nation building and destroying when said nation decides to run things THEIR way. It is the height of evil it just concealed better than say Saddam. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:06:47 AM |
Looks like another one that just rolled out of bed and decided to educate us in history. No one said america is "No Different" than nazi germany, you are making that up. No one said Bushco was hitler reincarnated either, but then that does not mean that his modus operandi isnt the same.
Just look at the title of the thread, the 4th and final reich, the purpose of this thread was to say that America is acting like Nazi Germany and Bush is like Hitler. So while I may have exagerated a tad bit, the original premise of the thread is still false. While there might be similarities, you can pick any President and administration and find some similarities, there are massive differences that far outweigh any similarities like the most important one involving genocide, Americans are not rounding up Moslems and simply executing them.
Then SCOTUS ruled that bushco boys are war criminals. Missed that didnt you?
Actually I did, I would like to see that ruling.
Yeh thats why we spread uranium all over iraq.
The long term health effects of using DU are unknown at the moment, the scientific community has not come to an agreement as to the effect of DU or if there is any. Until there is more info available the DU argument isn't legitimate.
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Features/DU/faq_depleted_uranium.shtml
Oh so stopping searching how many US citizens to write 1500 traffic tickets and calling any crime terror and the fbi stating that anyone defending the constitution is a terrorist is not a targeting innocent citizens huh? cough...
If I understood what you were trying to say I might be able to answer.
yeh and depleted uranium rounds to shoot em with LOL You think these guys carry laser guided shoulder mounted weapons and the whole war is fought that way? And you seem to think everyone is carrying DU rounds, that isn't the case. We have a policy for exterminating people for oil not race or religion. We have a policy for exterminating people who want to use the mutha of all wmds "euros" LMFAO. You don't even realize how much easier things would be over there if we just rounded people up and killed them, better yet just carpet bombed the whole area or nuked. There would be no resistance, there would be no insurgency, we could just go in and steal all the oil and be done with it, but you actually believe that we would do it the hard way. That we are retraining and rearming and rebuilding that country while rounding them up and exterminating them at the same time! That we are spending billions over there to eventually just exterminate them all and steal the oil! If the administration has no moral qualms about doing something like this why not simply push a button, save billions of dollars, and then go take the oil? Probably because it's a retarded proposition and has no basis in reality. Or maybe Bush is an evil genius who has the whole world fooled, except for some people, who on one hand consistently portray Bush as an idiot yet give him credit for running an administration capable of exterminating Moslems and stealing oil while fooling a majority of the American populace. Please stop and think about what you are suggesting. Does it make any sense? Here watch this then go back to sleep man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORL3Ekpv0A&NR=1 I don't agree with the Patriot Act and I find much of it unconstitutional, but you shouldn't use random you tube clips as support. That's like quoting Wikipedia. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 5:30:02 PM | .
I didnt look at your age but I find it difficult to argue this issue with you as it appears you are like in high school or something.
The us supreme court ruled torture unlawful, be my guest and look it up I am to lazy to get the link.
Please show me ONE study that indicates ANY radiation is healthy? For you to suggest and whatever it says on the link which is irrelevant that radiation at any level is safe is ludicrious.
Again vets that served in those ares cannot give blood to our blood bank. Does that not tell you something?
So you want to talk about how smart your bombs are and totally ignore the million 1/2 dead iraqis then want to tell me what? we are the freakin good guys?
Welcome to the american genocide, regardless of what your personal cold blooded opinion is it will go down in history for what it is: genocide.
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 6:04:01 PM | The 4th reich is Saudi Arabia.
The 5th reich is Iran.
The 6th reich is China.
The US is very far down the list in reichs! | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:36:16 PM | I'm 25 and my age has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, I've seen and done and been more places than a vast majority of American's my age. So don't even go there.
The us supreme court ruled torture unlawful, be my guest and look it up I am to lazy to get the link.
Ah, so the Supreme Court ruled that torture was unlawful, and they didn't rule that President Bush was a war criminal as per your original statement.
Please show me ONE study that indicates ANY radiation is healthy? For you to suggest and whatever it says on the link which is irrelevant that radiation at any level is safe is ludicrious.
The question isn't whether or not radiation is healthy, it's whether the use of those rounds concentrate enough radiation to effect long term health anymore than the radiation present already coming from various sources, like the sun. Is the concentration great enough to negatively effect health? Scientists are still uncertain.
Again vets that served in those ares cannot give blood to our blood bank. Does that not tell you something?
Do you not know that if anyone visits a third world country they can't give blood regardless if they are a vet or not?
So you want to talk about how smart your bombs are and totally ignore the million 1/2 dead iraqis then want to tell me what? we are the freakin good guys?
I'm not saying we're the good guys, and I'm not saying we're the bad guys. I'm saying we aren't like Hitler and Nazi Germany. Of course there are going to be innocent people who die, it's a war, but we aren't purposely targeting them. Accidents happen, but we aren't carpet bombing whole cities.
Welcome to the american genocide, regardless of what your personal cold blooded opinion is it will go down in history for what it is: genocide.
No it won't.
You obviously don't understand the meaning of genocide.
For us to be committing genocide in Iraq there would need to be INTENT TO DESTROY the people of Iraq. That is not happening, right now our intent is to try to secure the country long enough for a pro U.S. democracy to flourish and take control. Are Iraqis dieing? Sure. Are we killing Iraqis simply because they are Iraqi or Moslem? No. The intent to destroy a whole people based upon ethnicity, race, nationality, or religion is necessary to qualify as genocide, what we are doing does not qualify. If we really wanted to commit genocide it would probably be a lot cheaper than trying to rebuild that country, we have the power to wipe out that entire country in a matter of minutes using nukes, biological, or chemical weapons. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 9:24:29 PM |
Ah, so the Supreme Court ruled that torture was unlawful, and they didn't rule that President Bush was a war criminal as per your original statement.
Ahhh but Dubya was worried enough to pass a Bill giving himself and his whitehouse retroactive immunity for possible war crimes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc
For some info on DU hazards.
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:16:18 PM | | The President doesn't have the power to pass his own bills, that would be the Legislative branch that passed such a bill. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:48:31 PM | Funny you should bring up the radiation thing. You know how they treat cancer? Radiation. Yo uknow how they cure some foods so it wont go bad in Africa? Radiation. You know how they test for certain diseases, especially instead of a lengthy/possibly deadly operation? radiation.
Are you afraid of the airport sir? do you not go to the dentist, or get an x-ray from a doctor when you break an arm? actually better question, do you not go outside at all?
You cannot escape radiation. its everywhere. its in bananas for crying out loud. it takes rediculously high amounts of radiation in a short period of time before a human feels ill effects. You would literally have to be hugging a plutonium rod for a couple hours, and then youd prolly just puke and be fine. over a lifetime most pilots receive more radiation than the average person living just 20 miles from hiroshima and they arent keeling over by the hundreds every time they take off.
You come off as this smug know it all but you are just an idiot. ZOMG I STUDIED THE HISTORIES! Big deal. You know what you really did? Wasted about $60000 on a college education that wont get you the job you thought it would. So you read some books written by some liberal schlockmeisters who will give you the whole schpeel about how bad America has been in the past. You listened to a couple of liberal history teachers spew their hatred for Bush. And now you believe them, just like they want. Colleges have turned into nothing more than a breeding ground for the next generation of liberals who think they know what everyone wants and think their new hip cool idea is creative (even though a million others have the same thoughts because they were spoonfed the same crap) so it makes it ok for a guy to wear mascara to his next job interview. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:50:36 PM |
I get offended when we talk of America as a modern day nazi state.
I get offended to see America becoming a fascist dictatorship.
The people don't control the government anymore, it's not bashing America, it's calling the criminals who control our government the traitors that they are. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/6/2008 9:14:54 AM | The President doesn't have the power to pass his own bills, that would be the Legislative branch that passed such a bill.
Ooops .. me bad.
Guess he has enough control of the legislative branch to still get it passed. | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/6/2008 9:37:18 AM |
The President doesn't have the power to pass his own bills, that would be the Legislative branch that passed such a bill.
who needs a legislatures or Bills when you have signing statements that make you the Führer? (that all the other candidates except Nader have said they will continue to use)
Excellent post nomad....I was starting to wonder if anybody was going to bring Prescott into this.... | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/6/2008 10:12:41 AM |
You come off as this smug know it all but you are just an idiot. ZOMG I STUDIED THE HISTORIES! Big deal. You know what you really did? Wasted about $60000 on a college education that wont get you the job you thought it would. So you read some books written by some liberal schlockmeisters who will give you the whole schpeel about how bad America has been in the past. You listened to a couple of liberal history teachers spew their hatred for Bush. And now you believe them, just like they want. Colleges have turned into nothing more than a breeding ground for the next generation of liberals who think they know what everyone wants and think their new hip cool idea is creative (even though a million others have the same thoughts because they were spoonfed the same crap) so it makes it ok for a guy to wear mascara to his next job interview.
yep. That's the REAL problem in this country-- Books and too much edju-ma-cashun.
And all those pesky "HISTORIES"!
It's so MUCH better to just believe what the White House Press Secrtary decides to tell ya.
No! No to learning History! No to critical thinking! Bad! Bad! | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/6/2008 10:34:54 AM | The international Atomic Agency says this:
based on credible scientific evidence, there is no proven link between DU exposure and increases in human cancers or other significant health or environmental impacts
the bad part about depleted uranium is that its a heavy metal, like lead. so dont freaking eat it. if the radiation was a hazard, soldiers firing the weapons, reloading the weapons, working near the weapons would be wearing full lead suits to not die.
I would guess that i receive about 6 or 8 times what a soldier who works with DU shells does. my "extra" chance of receiving cancer because of it? about 4 in 1 million, i.e. negligable, so negligable that studies cannot even confirm that radiation would be the reason for getting cancer because its so tight against the margin of error. As a matter of fact, soldiers actively in Iraq get more dose from the sun and natural Earth Radon then DU shells.
again, more spoonfed "radiation is bad" stuff from people who actually know little to nothing about radiation itself. I bet you want to put up more of those "green" windmills all over the place too. because you know, covering every square inch of a landmass the size of Pennsylvania for a machine which runs at about a 17% capacity factor is whats necessary for our energy needs right? | |
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| america - the 4th and final reich
Posted: 5/6/2008 10:48:03 AM | It would be ok for you to make that claim, if college campuses were evenly represented. But they are not. Almost all colleges are extremely liberal. I've attended courses at three separate campuses, and at every one of them I hear the same things.
Open up one of the new fangled history books. Look at how many pages there are for how America oppressed African Americans, or Chinese, or women. Then look at how many pages there are for WWI. Look at how many pages there are for the Spanish-American War. Look at how many cover in depth important issues like Andrew Jacksons abolishment of the Central banking system.
If an alien from another planet came to Earth, landed in America, and went to school he would get a completely different view on America than if he had even just 20 years ago. So much emphasis is placed on things America has done wrong (neglecting the fact that it was like that around the entire planet at the time) it disgusts me. Do I think we should celebrate everything America does? Nope. Do I think taking so much effort to talk about our wrongs in the past which are all behind us instead of important concepts people need to understand, such as what Congress legally can vote on per the Constitution, is a good thing? No.
It's so MUCH better to just believe what the White House Press Secrtary decides to tell ya
I think you don't understand me at all. I really don't like Bush. I probably don't like him more then you. But mostly because he is a sellout and a traitor the the Republican parties base ideals. But I don't believe basically anything a person who has to tell me they studied History in college has to tell me. Their ideals are identical to their teachers. College doesnt teach you to think for yourself, or be independant minded. If that was the case, they wouldnt be so overly slanted to one side of political thought. If it was the case, you wouldnt hear the exact same thing coming from the mouths of hundreds of thousands of these kids who have no idea how the actual world works because their only life experience is going from highschool to college. You are not different if you are a liberal graduating from college. You are different if you are able to leave that place with your dignity in tact as a Republican. | |
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