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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/22/2008 10:58:00 PM |
I think it should be made legal so long as the prostitutes follow health and safety guidelines.
Ok lets say prostitution is legalized.......would you want your daughter to be one.......and if not, whos daughter should be one.............
and why should the women follow the health and safety guidelines..........
why should the woman have to be tested, why shouldnt the men............
that is the thing here.........why is it always the woman who has to conform....... | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 852 | |
| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/22/2008 11:25:57 PM | ^^^^
Who said anything about men not having to be tested?
Every prostitute is somebody's daughter. Nobody decides who's daughter is going to be one or whose isn't. Typical straw man arguement | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 12:20:00 AM | It clear many of you live in a very sheltered lifes ~ have never been put into the places and positions I have lived through and endured.
There is much more to the world then the neighborhoods you know and understand.
Places where there is "no" women. ~ 98-99 % all men. ~ There are places on this earth where no woman should be~ hard , rough places. ~ What few women that are there is the top man's woman and she is very "kepted" or business women. These few women made life bearible and men appericate their sporting nature.
As a GI, we had them smuggled in to restricted area in water tankers, 15 -20 at a time ~ just to make life bearible. ~ Increase the mens productivity, awarement ~ sense of selfworth and belonging ~ One woman fix ~ would kept the men happy for weeks.
It was a very controlled situation, very seceret, very guarded, it was a big project frought with dangers, screening, gathering, flying in and tranporting about a war zone.
You can't move the men ~ so you must move the women.
I don't think many of you girls understand exactly how it works and what you got!
~dar | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 2:59:02 AM | Zain ....... in all your posts, you're blaming women for causing men to use prostitutes .... interesting. A minority of men, will use prostitutes as a result of not finding a partner/friend/consenting adult or when what's there , does not meet their needs. They might use prostitutes (I'm talking about regular users) for a lot of other more deep rooted reasons/causes.... usually to do with themselves and not women (whether they're prostitutes or not).
What makes you think that legalizing prostitution would make it "safe" (or are we only talking about safety for the users?) and that the option of "0pting out" for prostitutes, escort, sex workers would certainly be an easy thing to do for them if it was legalized????
Again, google the situation in Amsterdam 2000-2006....... | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 5:35:15 AM | What makes you think that legalizing prostitution would make it "safe" (or are we only talking about safety for the users?) and that the option of "0pting out" for prostitutes, escort, sex workers would certainly be an easy thing to do for them if it was legalized????
For starters, the possibility of calling the police in case of trouble without the fear of being arrested. Moreover, the chance of expecting protection from the police as any other citizen.
The possibility of being in an known, safe location instead of roaming the streets.
Access to government's medical care and retirement payments as any other taxpayer.
And several other advantages.
About opting out... Not harder than if any other worker in any other profession decides one day to stay in bed (no pun intended) and not going to work.
Again, google the situation in Amsterdam 2000-2006.......
Amsterdam is not the only legal prostitution place in the world. I've certainly been in other countries where prostitution is legal. And the situation -both for johns and prostitutes- is certainly a lot better than in those that make prostitution illegal. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 8:05:42 AM | I work to help women EXIT the life..........
There is no solution as to getting rid of STW (sex trade workers).......but there is education out there to minimize it to an extent...........
There is a program that educates johns........when they get get caught trying to do a transaction.........8 out of 10 of the men, have been convicted of a violent crime or has a history of violence against women,...........the other 2 out of the 10 are married, and/or in a relationship and looking for gratification, when in the program they get tested for STDs and they see firsthand who is affected by prostitution.......it isnt only the women......it is the community..........
DANCECARD: you are absolutely correct about the women that came to the men in the war........they knew they were safe and not going to get killed or beaten........they werent doing it to feed their drug habits or something..........this has been going on for years...........there is no comparison as to today.............where the women, and not all the women.......use prostitution to feed a habit or a pimp....
as for ZAIN--------you dont have to justify being a john...............I really dont careé. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 8:30:34 AM | If prostitutes are a "solution" to anything................the "problem" must pretty F-ed up.
Are Lawyers the solution? SURE... if the problem is "What can we feed to the sharks?"
Are Piranhas the solution? SURE....if the problem is overweight sharks....
Are Prostitutes the solution? SURE....if the problem is a surplus of unemployed social workers AND a surplus of funds to pay them...and a surplus of "respectable job" openings for former prostitutes. (I can't see this becoming a problem anytime soon, so I'd have to vote "NO" - prostitutes aren't a solution to anything.) | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 858 | |
| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 1:55:01 PM | "Zain ....... in all your posts, you're blaming women for causing men to use prostitutes .... interesting."
I'm not blaming anyone, It just seems interesting, A woman does not give up sex willingly to a man because she does not want sex unless it is in the confines of a relationship. Fair enough A woman does not need to justify her reason for not wanting to have sex with me. I don't need to justify why I need to get those urges staisfied elsewhere. Yet self righteous do gooders like circe believe they have the right to dictate what a man or woman can or cannot do with their body. It's about us having sex and them not liking it. It's about people making their own descisions and them not liking it. It has nothing to do with blame.
"A minority of men, will use prostitutes as a result of not finding a partner/friend/consenting adult or when what's there , does not meet their needs. They might use prostitutes (I'm talking about regular users) for a lot of other more deep rooted reasons/causes.... usually to do with themselves and not women (whether they're prostitutes or not)."
I'm not a "regular user" so I don't see how this even applies to me. Of course there are a whole bunch of reasons why guys go to prostitutes. Unless you ask them you'll never know so this "only the minority of men go to prostitutes because they can't find anybody" statement is meaningless Unless you have interviewed a hundred johns. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what their reason is. What a person does in the privacy of their own home or hotelroom is none of my bussiness.
"There is a program that educates johns........when they get get caught trying to do a transaction.........8 out of 10 of the men, have been convicted of a violent crime or has a history of violence against women,...........the other 2 out of the 10 are married, and/or in a relationship and looking for gratification,"
Where was this study conducted? were these women streetwalkers or escorts and where are your sources?
"as for ZAIN--------you dont have to justify being a john...............I really dont careé"
Then why the hell are you even here? There are hundreds of other threads with interesting topics and what's with all the................pauses | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 2:20:16 PM |
Where was this study conducted? were these women streetwalkers or escorts and where are your sources?"
Where I work is where we do the *JOHN* school..........I work with the police........
When a guy is arrested for trying to buy a STW, their car is taken away.......he has the opportunity to get charged or go to JOHN school and pay the $500.00 to go ...........and receive NO charge........
When the guys are sent to us, we see what the crimes are, and we see what the circumstances are........We have a onsite nurse who checks for STDs and we have ex STWs come and talk about there experiences and their past life............
Why are you trying to see the upside of seeing a STW............do you know where your money is going.........and if you had a daughter that was an STW, would you justify the men that are buying her..........
I seen this thread and i was amazed at the small minded comments made by you and some of the others.........I know my stuff.........i deal with it everyday..........there is a few men that are killing STWs here in my city, the latest as of yesterday........21 yrs old and she is dead and left in the country............ya killed by a JOHN............justify that ...... | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 3:53:43 PM | Speaking of small minded, crazeegyrl, you seem to be that yourself. I have a 23 year old daughter and wouldn't enjoy having her being in the trade, but we don't have a say in the choices others may make. I lived in Europe for about 9 yrs. I have seen the differences in countries where prostitution is legal and the women are in control of their lives and where it is illegal and they are getting beat up and slapped around by their pimps or getting shaken down by crooked cops looking for a freebie or a cut of their earnings. Our tax money gets wasted on sting opperations and prosecutions of johns where the hours of manpower and money would be better spent on catching real criminals. There is also less disease where it's legal because the girls a required to have regular check ups. They also pay taxes on their income. Take a walk down the street in Amsterdam, it's not hidden, they're sitting in the window in their underware showing of the product. The only thing that prevents it from happening in this country( except Nevada) is the good christian lunatics that want to push their frigid morals on everyone else( including all those righteous congressmen that get caught with hookers or busted trying to pick up guys in mens rooms). Legalize it , regulate it , tax it. Problem solved.  | |
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custis
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Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 861 | |
| Re: Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:03:03 PM | "Prostitution, in and of itself, seemingly does no harm to society. However, along with prostitution, comes gambling, drug trafficking, loan sharking, extortion, illegal weapons trading, human trafficking, and a host of other things that are mala in se (inherently bad) things, that societies have deemed criminal activities."
You will not find a single one of the things listed above in ANY legal brothel in Nevada. By keeping prostitution illegal, just like drugs, we set up a situation where people are able to use the proceeds to fund other far worse activities. There is virtually no argument for keeping prostitution illegal that holds any water whatsoever, except for satisfying the holier than thou folks who object to anyone having sex for just fun. | |
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| Re: Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:21:53 PM | I seriously find that in either scenario there are pros and there are cons............
My mind is not closed to any avenue............the thing that bothers me is people who think legalizing it is the answer................
So if *sallys* choice is to be a STW.........that is her choice, she should be buying her own condoms, getting tested, paying her bills, food, clothing.....etc...........
Now...*cathys* choice is to be a STW......that is her choice, but she is paying for her addiction, her needles, her crack, her abusive mans drugs.......she needs to get FREE condoms......she gets welfare.........she is a the low track.........but it is legal, and so guys are going to feel free to rape, abuse, demean her............there is nothing anyone can do cuz it is legal..........another life destroyed..........
Now if it was illegal, the man who bought Cathy, may be arrested, and so could she.......he could be charged and have to pay the $500.00 to go to the JOHN school, where as the money goes to programs to help these women go to treatment, to go to school, to get a life..........
sally doesnt have that problem......she will probably buy a house and go on to live a productive life..........
You dont hear of those women.............
You hear about the Cathys............I see it everyday, and I have been a part of studies in Amsterdam and all the legal countries.......the women that are in the windows are mostly women from poor countries......who were brought and sold to pay off their tickets to paradise.............never to be able to pay them at all............
You have to take the good with the bad........who is really benefiting........and your tax dollars are my tax dollars too.........i would rather them go to this than to some Government official who is lining his own pockets...... | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:21:55 PM | Where I work is where we do the *JOHN* school..........I work with the police........
Therefore it is in your best interest that prostitution remains illegal, lest you lose your job.
Why are you trying to see the upside of seeing a STW............do you know where your money is going.........and if you had a daughter that was an STW, would you justify the men that are buying her........
Why are you NOT trying to see the upside of seeing a STW?
Do you know where your money goes for everything you buy?
If I had a daughter, would I own her body and deny her the right to do with it as she pleases?
I seen this thread and i was amazed at the small minded comments made by you and some of the others.........I know my stuff.........i deal with it everyday..........there is a few men that are killing STWs here in my city, the latest as of yesterday........21 yrs old and she is dead and left in the country............ya killed by a JOHN............justify that ......
No. YOU justify that. YOU justify that this girl needed to do her trade in hiding, instead of openly, therefore giving a real criminal the advantage of not involving the police. YOU justify that prostitutes cannot go to the police for protection, since you criminalize them. YOU justify that this 21 years old girl had to be "in the country" instead of practicing her trade safely in a legal brothel.
Now...*cathys* choice is to be a STW......that is her choice, but she is paying for her addiction, her needles, her crack, her abusive mans drugs.......she needs to get FREE condoms......she gets welfare.........she is a the low track.........but it is legal, and so guys are going to feel free to rape, abuse, demean her............there is nothing anyone can do cuz it is legal..........another life destroyed..........
If you really worked with the police, you would know that rape and abuse are already illegal. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:41:50 PM | LOL---
I am not paid.........I volunteer......................I lost my best friends sister to the life and her killer is on trial as we speak................He killed her and mutilated her, he cut off her breasts and her genitilia..........she was 19.
the girl they found in the back of his truck...........was in a hockey bag.......there for 3 months..........
Ok legalize it--------you have made your arguement...... you win.
i would rather see it gone, and that is never going to happen.........but legalizing it just says that exploiting women is ok............all to benefit men..........NICE.
*ROCK HUNTER what if your son wanted to live that life-------are you going to drive him to the LEGAL brothel and pat him on the bum and say...........Now make a bunch of guys happy my boy..............Have a good day at work*
I highly doubt it.............. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:53:17 PM | I am not paid.........I volunteer......................I lost my best friends sister to the life and her killer is on trial as we speak................He killed her and mutilated her, he cut off her breasts and her genitilia..........she was 19.
Was she killed inside a legal brothel? I don't think so.
Anyway, I also have a sob story... a friend's son, a very ugly, overweight, timid guy. At 24 he had never had a girlfriend. Not for lack of trying, but he didn't have game, wasn't attractive, typical good guy. He wanted to have sex, but no woman wanted him. So he went to a sex worker. Guess what? Police sting. Handcuffed, booked, criminalized. His crime? Wanting to feel a woman's touch for once in his life.
I suppose that you think he's as criminal as your friend's murderer.
*ROCK HUNTER what if your son wanted to live that life-------are you going to drive him to the LEGAL brothel and pat him on the bum and say...........Now make a bunch of guys happy my boy..............Have a good day at work*
Perhaps your "what ifs" should include: "what if we let consenting adults do with their bodies as they see fit". Anyway, i will answer you: I am not the owner of his body, so whatever he wants to do with it, it's his business. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:57:15 PM |
would rather see it gone, and that is never going to happen.........but legalizing it just says that exploiting women is ok............all to benefit men..........NICE.
No. You are saying that you would rather ensure that guys that aren't alpha males or attractive NEVER reproduce at all costs nor engage in the act that causes said reproduction, whether they use protection or not.
You must be a geneticist.
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 5:02:24 PM | what if she met him there...........and gained her trust..........and she seen him on the side, so she didnt have to pay the BROTHEL their cut...........
He was a freind of hers that gained her trust and paid her for a service...........*helped her out*...... and then offed her like a freakin deer on a deer hunt........
And i seriously doubt you would sit there and tell your son that what he was doing was his choice......... ya if i had a daughter and that was her choice, i would not be happy.......cuz all it is is LEGAL pimping.......the Government is happy and so are the users of the women..............
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 5:03:40 PM |
I seen this thread and i was amazed at the small minded comments made by you and some of the others.........I know my stuff.........i deal with it everyday..........there is a few men that are killing STWs here in my city, the latest as of yesterday........21 yrs old and she is dead and left in the country............ya killed by a JOHN............justify that ......
That's such an outrageous statement I don't even know where to begin. To suggest that it would even enter the minds of those of us who support the decriminaliztion of prostitution to attempt to "justify" the murder of some poor young woman is a disgusting insult.
You're not getting our points: it's the very fact that the industry is criminalized that draws troubled people into it, puts them in more-dangerous situations than the average person, and makes them easy targets for REAL criminals - people who are violent and abusive, from the element that controls prostitution through violence and the odd, rare violent "customer" - not the vast majority of men who pay women for sex, and are themselves senselessly criminalized.
Everyone involved in an underworld activity is at high risk. If prostitution were legal and regulated, the "market" for the extreme low-level, desperate, wounded practitioner would practically dry up, because their now-customers would have better, safer options. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 5:08:28 PM | ^^^^ Oh, yes, crazeegirl. And what if an asteroid hits the earth and renders this conversation moot? We could play this "what if" game forever, and it wouldn't matter.
So your friend had the bad luck of finding that one-in-a-million psycho. Do we all have to pay for it? Specially when the criminal is already paying for it? Oh, please. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 5:49:48 PM | crazeegyrl ~ so sorry for you loss
I don't know anyone that could get over something like that in just one life time!
Your hurt is felt by us all here ~ Whatever sorted feeling and emotions you carry is understandable.
I'd really not wish to discuss this thread topic with you.
But I will say this ~ laws make criminals out of some very nice people. ~ Laws are not the silver bullet to everthing preceived bad and wrong. Often as not laws make bad things worse. ~ It empowers some and disinfranchises others.
Your sisters killer had little regard for laws.
~dar | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 871 | |
| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 6:34:21 PM | "Anyway, I also have a sob story... a friend's son, a very ugly, overweight, timid guy. At 24 he had never had a girlfriend. Not for lack of trying, but he didn't have game, wasn't attractive, typical good guy. He wanted to have sex, but no woman wanted him. So he went to a sex worker. Guess what? Police sting. Handcuffed, booked, criminalized. His crime? Wanting to feel a woman's touch for once in his life. "
The do gooders are going to suggest he had gone to counselling of course.
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 6:37:16 PM | Crazeegyrl,
I am sorry uhm...I have to say, you don't come across as truly affected, so I am wondering whether your story is even true or if you are using drastic sensionalism to prove a point. It becomes very difficult to argue with people who have been affected in the worst way by a certain subject matter. It is not fair to the general debate of this discussion.
"He was a freind of hers that gained her trust and paid her for a service...........*helped her out*...... and then offed her like a freakin deer on a deer hunt........"
The statement above, is highly insensitive towards someone that close to youl.
If the story is indeed true, first, my apologies, and second my condolences.
I feel like a jerk coutering you on this but I am trying to maitain a less emotional point of view. So:
Meeting a man, and growing to trust him...can happen in everyday life.
Women who have become victims of sick twisted individuals, who are charming sociopaths, or dark premeditative and systematic murderers....do not necessarily have to be STW's, to use your coined phrase.
Women have been killed by men who become obssessed with them online. I hear horror stories from my mother who watches way too much tv and always thinks of the worst case scenario.
I would venture this much, after reading your story, my first thought was: "what is doing online? with a screen name as "crazeegyrl"?" Someone with your experience would not be here, and would not put herself out there for men to shop up...so to speak and with the implication that you are "crazy"...where? in bed? in life? party hard?.
This is not a personal attack, I am playing devil's advocate here. It is just a question.
Would you be so kind as to enlighten me on what I perceive to be contradictory images of who you are, where you are and your experiences vs your sensationalistic point of view? | |
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| Re: Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 6:40:41 PM | I think mostly the prostitute thing is for female companionship for those who are too socially inept/awkward to do anything else cuz as long as you pay a prostitute doesn't care how awkward/inept you are.
also , some men just want that objective third party to talk to | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 8:16:59 PM |
I lost my best friends sister to the life and her killer is on trial as we speak................He killed her and mutilated her, he cut off her breasts and her genitilia..........she was 19.
the girl they found in the back of his truck...........was in a hockey bag.......there for 3 months..........
Ok legalize it--------you have made your arguement...... you win.
Crazeegyl, you MUST recuse yourself from any volunteer work you're doing in this field, because your unique and tragic personal experience is hurting both you and the people you're dealing with on both sides. The person who brutalized and murdered your friend IS NOT the joe-schmoo john who pays for sex, and the poor girl who died IS NOT the average sex-worker. That sort of horrible thing can happen to anyone, female or male, in the sex trade or not. Legalization is NOT the issue in the case you're talking about. If you can't see that, you NEED to step back. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/23/2008 8:23:43 PM | """"Ok lets say prostitution is legalized.......would you want your daughter to be one.......and if not, whos daughter should be one............."""
I wouldn't want my daughter to work at Quizonos or Subway either. But those big madison avenue corporations are legal, nothing we can do about it. And I do eat there (LOL. ROTFLMAO).
""""It clear many of you live in a very sheltered lifes ~ have never been put into the places and positions I have lived through and endured""" Yee Haw! another person who thinks their lives are so unique. and we haven't walked in his/her shoes.
Which one of us here do in particular do you think is sheltered or not "endured" enough?
""""the john's.....these are men that women tend to not find attractive, even though they are probably good or harmless people. Are you saying that in order to protect the prostitutes, you are willing to be a good samaritan and have sex or a relationship with said john's? """
Excellent post ocyrus, there are some other threads you could post that in too.
and someone quoted this viewpoint, a seemingly valid if not "mighty white all american yuppish view"
""""MEN AS PROVIDING OBJECTS, WOMEN AS SEX OBJECTS
The result today, 1 million years later, is that modern women are genetically programmed to view men as providers of material comfort, while modern men are genetically programmed to look at women as sex objects. To put it another way: the very nature of all intimate relationships between women and men is inherently prostitutional. Like their prehistoric ancestors, contemporary women provide men with sex in exchange for material goods; contemporary men provide women with material goods in exchange for sex. So strong is this genetic program that it has even been made the foundation of modern monogamous marriage: in all 50 states, by law, husbands are required to financially support their wives and children, while wives are legally required to provide sexual services to their husbands. This is why it is so difficult to convict a husband of raping his wife: until recently, the idea of "marital rape" was unthinkable. This also explains the curious fact that many men prefer that their wives not work outside the home.""""""
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