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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 2:50:31 PM | Hey look Rock....I feel sorry for you....but from your post it sounds like you neither have any interest in a relationship with a woman NOR do you give it any value...
<div class="quote">What are the other options? How about communication? WHAT a concept. Negotiation? Mutual excitement? If those are "hoops"...I don' t think there's much hope for you.
<div class="quote"> You said yourself we men have no clue about how to get sex. nah. I said "IF" more of them had a clue...
<div class="quote">And certainly there is nobody out there to teach us. sure there is....your partner. she's different from the last one...and you're different from her last one. Learn from each other.
<div class="quote">And anyway, such teaching normally implies a guy jumping through an awful lot of loops, just for the "privilege" of having sex with a woman. It's SUPPOSED to be a privilege....hell if it's not, why do you even WANT her? Relationships are an effort, we jump through hoops too...
Your experience with women DOES sound like it has sucked - for which I feel profoundly sorry for you - but it may be you have been barking up the wrong trees....or barking at them for the wrong reasons. Not all women regard sex as a chore.
The purpose of sex is different from one person to the next...and from one experience to the next. Some regard it as purely procreative. I prefer to think of it as expressive, intimate and mutual sastisfaction - EVEN in those cases where it's purely for fun. IF it's just to get your rocks off, ASAP...then by all means, go to the nearest knothole, sheep or whatever does it for you...but don't toss blame at an entire gender for what you have not been able to successfully negotiate. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 2:55:10 PM | Zain...the reason you have decided that these women have a choice is because that way you won't feel guilty about what you've done. As for your contention that hookers can choose...of course they can. And people who work them as I do believe they can turn their lives around...but not without a lot of support and counselling. Because, unfortunately they don't BELIEVE they have a choice....THEY ARE VICTIMS OF YEARS OF ABUSE. And they were taught at an early age that they are worthless unless sex is involved.
Do I want to help you? Nope. I want to help the hookers. I think johns are the scum of the earth. I want them to go to john school instead of jail to learn why there is prostitution and how contributing to it damages these women and all of society. In many cases, johns come out of the school with a completely different perspective and never repeat the behaviour. It is very much like the 'Scared straight' program. If educating them will curb the practice, then I think it is worth supporting. Cause every john off the street is a small victory. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 3:01:23 PM | | Brava, weaselontoast, brava!!! Though I don't really know why you and I are bothering....I mean look at the men we're talking to....talk about throwing pearls to swine! | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 3:01:25 PM | Hey look Rock....I feel sorry for you....but from your post it sounds like you neither have any interest in a relationship with a woman NOR do you give it any value...
You're partially right. I don't have any interest in a (romantic) relationship with a woman. However, I do give them value: the same value I give to every fellow human being.
And no need to feel sorry for me, I'm very happy (and a lot less stressed) after I decided to ride solo forever.
It's SUPPOSED to be a privilege....hell if it's not, why do you even WANT her?
You just proved my point, twice.
First: It is a privilege precisely because of the difficulty to get it. Prostitution removes that difficulty, renders that privilege moot, and that's what irks most women.
Second: You said it yourself: If there is no sex, why do I even WANT her? The answer is: Why do I indeed? (perhaps it's something that those "once-a-month" wives should think about)
but don't toss blame at an entire gender for what you have not been able to successfully negotiate.
Again, "I" am not blaming any women, even less an entire gender (unlike those john-bashers who blame us for all kinds of crimes). To decide that something is worth only that much -and sex falls within this category- is not "blaming". | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 3:11:37 PM | I think johns are the scum of the earth.
Uh-hu. I might think that grandmas in miniskirts looking for men while still married are the scum of the earth, but I wouldn't allow it to affect my professional viewpoint, which in the case of a law-enforcement officer is supposed to be impartial. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 3:16:50 PM |
Second: You say it yourself: If there is no sex, why do I event WANT her?
Actually I don't "say it myself". I said if it's not a privilege, why do you want her..." "privilege" implies it's something she shares with someone intimately. A woman's body is HERS to share with whom she chooses...and "Privilege" implies it's not something she gives to every male she meets. In the context of a relationship, clearly two people have agreed to share that part of themselves and satisfy each other. Some guys would value being "among the chosen"...and that would be part of a the benefit of a mutually exclusive relationship.
Clearly you don't feel that way about it...which is your prerogative - and if that is satisfying to you, I wish you luck with it.
However, please don't presume to use "I said it myself..." when what I have said does not at all, in fact, support your point.
Circe - I appreciate your support...does seem like a losing battle, LOL but wtf - as the great Don Henley said...
"Maybe we'll leave come springtime, meanwhile, have another beer. What would we do without all these jerks anyway - and besides, all our friends are here....." | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 3:40:16 PM | A woman's body is HERS to share with whom she chooses...
We agree on this. The thing is, what if she chooses to share her body with me in exchange of money? Suddenly her body is not hers, but belongs to all those "do-gooders" who tell her what she can or can't do with it.
Moreover, we johns KNOW your body is yours to share with whom you choose. That's why we don't try to force you to share it with us. That's why we leave you alone and go elsewhere.
Some guys would value being "among the chosen"
And many more guys will never be among the chosen. What about them? Do they say: "hey, I'll never have sex, but I've respected women's choices, yay for me"? I don't think so.
Besides, what's that "among the chosen" mindset anyway? Is she some kind of royalty whose favor is bestowed on a few of the masses or something and all the other non-chosen ones must be happy for her and the few lucky ones, waiting in silence with the hope of being chosen the next time?
Again, it's what I said: Some women hate prostitution because it removes their power by putting a (sometimes cheap) price tag on something they think should be invaluable.
It's SUPPOSED to be a privilege....hell if it's not, why do you even WANT her?
Am I to assume that you are of the opinion that if a woman shared her body to the point of not being a privilege anymore (as in, "I slept around a lot when I was younger") are men justified in not wanting her?
Anyway, when it can be bought, it loses its "privilege" condition.
does seem like a losing battle
Yes it was, from the beginning. Nor johns nor prostitutes will listen to do-gooders, so what's the use?
And since we're on song lyrics, what about:
American woman, stay away from me
American woman, mama let me be
Don't come a-hangin' around my door
I don't wanna see your face no more
I got more important things to do
Than spend my time growin' old with you
Now woman, I said stay away
American woman, listen what I say-ay-ay-ay.
About your post below, you start from a wrong premise:
We don't "hate". The only hateful posts here came from do-gooders and miniskirted grannies.
I said WITHIN an exclusive relationship.
Since most sex nowadays is not within exclusive relationships, what does it have to do with anything? Anyway, whether in or out of relationships, what kind of mindset thinks "privilege" for that? What would you think of a man who thought that you have the "privilege" of having sex with him?
I've honestly never encountered someone who recommended that women just spread their legs and yawn at whatever drooling horndog passed by.
I've honestly never encountered that, either. Unless you imply that's what I'm saying (which of course is absurd).
What I'm saying is:
It's not my business who you have sex with, nor why.
It's not your business who "I" have sex with, nor why.
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 3:57:05 PM | CONTEXT, Rockboy....I said WITHIN an exclusive relationship. I personally wouldn't want a guy who's banging everything in a skirt....Especially if we have agreed to a "mutually exclusive" relationship, I'd drop his ass in a New York minute if he can't honor that...and I'd expect a guy would drop a female for the same breach of agreement. I sure as hell don't want to be involved with him, it's not a privilege to be involved with a cheater - especially if he's bringing home every skanky STD in the books.
If her "favor" is bestowed on everything with a penis, most guys would call her a skank, a slut, half a dozen other things. I've honestly never encountered someone who recommended that women just spread their legs and yawn at whatever drooling horndog passed by. That isn't intimacy - I seriously doubt you're truly attracted to every slobbery female you meet either.
I'm not a do-gooder...just trying to understand the dehumanization and the hate that makes it acceptable to traffic in human beings. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 4:16:07 PM | | I am no longer going to respond to your infantile personal comments....which you have resorted to out of desperation and cowardice. You say that you will not listen to the 'do-gooders'. That is obvious. I have said everything I want to say on the subject. Your hatred of women is palpable. I hope you get help. Because the truth is that johns are just as screwed up as hookers. And weaselontoast...it is NOT acceptable to dehumanize others....not by civilized people anyway. Thankfully, the kind of mindset that characterizes a 'john' is not shared by the majority of loving, decent men in our society. So there is hope. And rock hunter....sorry but it is my business who you have sex with when you break the law...very much MY business. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 4:17:59 PM | Circe 1
No I don't feel guilty, she seemed to be doing pretty well for herself. judging by the area she operated out of. I could never afford to live where she operated. Infact I'm willing to bet most mid range escorts make more then I do.
How a prostitute feels about herself is not my problem, Why should I be held responsible for her low self esteem and her years of abuse? There are lots of people who've endured years of abuse and are not living on streets and haven't destroyed themselves. We are all responsible for our own actions so enough with the sob stories. If you want to be their savior be my guest. I never said you shouldn't help these women. but many don't need saving and are capable of thinking for themselves. For every john you get off the street another will come and take their place. unless you plan on having sex with these men yourselves don't expect it to ever stop it will never ever EVER EVER stop. Many johns are already "scared striaght" which is why they don't pick up streetwalkers and would rather deal with a professional who operates out of a safe clean location where using a condom is mandatory. We don't want a drug addict or an emotional wacko. We are looking out for our safety to remember? You can't get these johns because hey, they're already off the street!
"I think johns are the scum of the earth"
What you "think" is irrelevant. as a police officer it is your job to enforce laws not make them. As a professional it is also your responsibility to not let your personal feelings and morals get in the way and judge everyone accordingly.
weasonontoast,
quite the contrary, I have no problem satisfying a woman's needs if she actually TOLD me what they were instead of yelling at me for no reason and blaming everything she does on "PMS" . and as long as its not a one-way street. you give and you get. I'm aware of the concept.
"I am no longer going to respond to your infantile personal comments"
Does this mean you're not coming back? promise this time?! | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 4:22:42 PM | one last snapshot from my friend, in the biz
The woman in escort is a bulimic, she has a double fridge filled with food, shops grocery store, once a week.. gives all food away?? (to me, others)
eats, then feels 'fat' goes worksout at gym, goes to Mels diner, orders milkshakes and cake. She lives on that plus 3 gallons of coffee each morning! She always asks me 'am i too fat'.. i tell her truth.. 'NO!! ur bones with one layer of meat" she never seems to hear me?
turn her sideways, cant se her! She called her dad and said 'daddy, im so tired of these men ****ing me up the ass'... in those words!!! I could never talk like that to my dad!
if that isnt cry for help, i dont know what!
These women hate being hookers!!! alot of them have girlfriends, very few have boyfriends, who are what?? living off of them! waiting for that money to come home to do drugs. (she tells me alot)
but u know all this,
She doent know 'way out, where do i go... cant wait til ive made enuff money, own what i want, then im gonna find my man and make love the way older people do.. slow and easy' she says that alot
edit: my prior post, counslor from amsterdam, was a street hooker, her and her sister, came to USA... | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 4:29:44 PM | which you have resorted to out of desperation and cowardice.
And which are all true, according to your profile. My regards to your husband.
sorry but it is my business who you have sex with when you break the law...very much MY business.
That's why I travel to countries where prostitution is legal. If I ever go to the U.S., I'll call you from Vegas.
By the way, I agree with Zain. You're a piss-poor law-enforcement officer. First, you let your personal feelings interfere with your work, and then you have "triggering" episodes. I wonder how the PD psychiatrist is dealing with you. I hope you won't crumble the day you surrender your badge. It must be very hard to lose that power feeling.
Very apt nickname, by the way. According to greek mythology, Circe was the witch who loved to turn men into pigs. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 4:58:11 PM | "Very apt nickname, by the way. According to greek mythology, Circe was the witch who loved to turn men into pigs."
I think I'm gonna listen to some Lenny Kravitz now.
"Besides, the only ones who use "blame" are those against prostitution. I don't "blame" women who don't "do me" for prostitution. I simply choose not to bother unwilling women, and go to a willing prostitute"
Yep. pretty much nailed it. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 5:12:44 PM | ""The reason it is not legal is because it is an essentially inhumane practice. As for punishing the offenders, I would prefer to see these men go to john school. Unless they re-offend. And then I would throw the book at them."""
Who says prostitution is inhumane? Inhumane huh? Thats really stretching things. I think Rock has made some excellent points As quoted above, prostitution was the first occupation, police enforcement came along later.
It is common social theory that "Social problems are what people say they are". In the USA thats based on morality as taught in the Christian religion. In the 1600's for example women were persecuted by "the good town folks" for being WITCHES! Then it was socially acceptable to HAVE SLAVES, because Negroes weren't human. Let's not forget the PERSECUTION OF JEWS, boy did a lot of Germans go along with that. How about homosexuality? Is that inhumane? Yes it was if you asked a lot of "good law abiding folks" a few years ago.....
It always amuses me how the "have's" want to tell the "have nots" how to live. That is inhumane. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 5:51:15 PM |
"Are prostitutes the solution?" Um, what was the problem?
This is the problem (from the OP):
I've read some posts here. Some people seem to be tired of the realities of the dating game.
I have a friend who has found a solution. He goes to see sex wokers. His claim is: You don't play mind games with them. You pay and play. Me, I beleive in a healhty relationship, where both people are realistic and down to earth. But in the long run, Am I really right?
So, yes, for someone in that situation, prostitution is a solution. De-criminalization would also be a solution to most of the negative and dangerous aspects of it, for both sex-workers (female and male) and their customers.
It's obvious it would NOT be a solution for men who are unsuccessful in finding either casual sex or a viable relationship if they ALSO have personal beliefs that stop them from an honest "pay and play" transaction. Those men will either have to live without sex or get into a relationship with relatively less-appealing partners (either in a physical way or a personality way) who are "laddering up." If he does that, and can bring himself to have sex with her anyway just to get SOME sex, he's still rolling the dice on whether she's going to provide it. He might end up stuck in a dreadful relationship and STILL be without satisfying sex.
A smart man who's sick of dating or is no good at it will budget for occasional good sex with a high-end sex worker. A stupid or timid or desperate or frightened one might choose lower-end sex-workers. They're the ones who are AT high risk and who are also riskier to GO WITH, because of the criminal element in which they live.
De-criminalization is the solution for everybody - and society as a whole. The only ones who would be damaged by it are the small segment of women who are threatened by ANY man getting sex under ANY terms that isn't a direct benefit to them. Most of those women also despise women who partake of casual, no-strings, non-"relationship" sex. They call us sluts and wish we would just go away. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 6:10:24 PM | Prostitutes are the solution for easy, immediate sexual gratification. If that's all a person wants and isn't in an exclusive, monogamous relationship, then as long as the woman or man is an adult and isn't being coerced into the profession, I say go for it.
Just goes to show you can't buy love, but for 15 min. in the car in a dark alley, you can buy a temporary facsimile. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/24/2008 7:33:18 PM |
Just goes to show you can't buy love, but for 15 min. in the car in a dark alley, you can buy a temporary facsimile.
Or a mug shot. Ask Hugh Grant. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 4:35:55 AM | Visiting this thread this morning was a mistake. Not a good way to start my day.
Reminder to Gardennut: Do not visit the prostitution thread again.
It's threads like this that make me want to wrap my arms around my loving partner and whisper: "Thank you, God, for sending me this man so that I am no longer out there in the dating market with those men."
Amen. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 5:13:27 AM | Hi,
Well I have no complaints with sex workers. You always pay in the end anyhow.
I have met some where the chemistry has been good and had a great time its luck.
You can meet a beautiful woman why feel ashamed that you have to seek such a person.
I believe it is better than self pity and getting deleted from these forums for showing it.
Regards,
Atkin | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 5:16:00 AM | Hi,
I stay away from prostitutes in America they are usually drug addicts or dangerous not the same quality as other countries.
Atkin. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 6:06:55 AM | | There is nothing wrong with prostitutes....they serve a purpose and they have been here since the begining of time | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:45:48 PM |
In my profession I have met many prostitutes. From every walk of life. And have tried to save quite a few.
Circe, while you have been trying to save some of these ladies, I have actually had success in doing so. I can Boast about three that I have gotten out of the bizz, they are living happy normal lives now. For some Johns, that is something they feel obligated to do now and then. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it is always worth a try.
Sorry I havent been posting, however I see most don't care. ONward and upward I always say.
I am sure that some of you are not really familiar with just how wide spread this phenomenon is, prostitution that is. When you start into really finding out about such women you find out that there is an entire sub-culture that deals with it. What most are familiar with are the street whores. These are the ones that the drug dealers go to and some of our lower class and some middle income workers end up dealing with because that is all they know.
Then there are people like me who have dealt with the upper income and upper class style of prostitutes, Safer? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly without much of the risk of the street whore.
But what is happening right under your nose without you even realizing it is what I like to call the hooker in disguise. These are of course women who hunt out and date or even marry men of the upper income range simply for the sake of doing so. They get rich, they get what they want and they get to live the life they want. Where can these women be found? Everywhere my friends, everywhere. There are even web-sites that are devoted to pleasing the taste of these men and women who seek out relationships based on income, lifestyle and taste. It has nothing to do with love, believe me.
I would bet most of you are not aware that that even takes place right here on POF. If you don’t like POF then all you have to do is look at the advertisements that are plastered right next to your picture on your profile, right here on POF. They go by such names as, “Sugar Daddy.com” and “SeekingArrangment.com.”
Would you like to know where these web-sites are most commonly advertised? Yes thats right folks, right in web sites that are most specifically dedicated to Johns finding upper class Escorts. Thats where these sites got there start and thats what these web-sites are all about.
This message is especially dedicated to the next woman that turns down a man based on his wages, or lack there of.
Peace and love people, peace and love. | |
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 1:46:36 PM | I wouldn't personaly, however i do have a mate who said its cheaper, and when your done she's not going to follow u around moaning
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| Are prostitutes the solution?
Posted: 2/25/2008 2:27:30 PM | I'm not into prostitutes myself, but I don't really care if that's the preference of others. Either way, you're going to wind up paying, but only one is a guaranteed. | |
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