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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 4:38:47 AM |
If a alcoholic stops drinking for 60 days they can get a liver transplant
sounds like he abused alcohol and drugs his whole life (he contracted hepatitis C by sharing needles with "speed freaks" as a teenager). he was an alcoholic and that is what caused the liver problems...the hep c didn't help either. he didn't die because doctors refused treatment from pot, he died as a direct result of his own addictions. don't read the headline and assume that's the reason. i do think it's silly if someone is denied surgery because they're are smoking pot, especially if his doc told him to, however, he was an alcoholic and that's why he needed the liver transplant in the first place. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 5:21:54 AM | Can't believe all the bullshit out there about weed!! I would rather smoke alittle weed than drink any amount of alcohol and F prescription drugs, I know so many peeps gettin hooked and dying on them its unreal!!!! Legalize WEED!!!!!!
Bobby | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:07:02 AM | | My nieces husband died waiting for a liver transplant because of smoking pot. The pot kept his nausea down. He stopped smoking for a year but it still showed up in his tests. THC can form crystals in the tissue causing you to test positive even though you have not smoked in six months to a year. | |
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| Hospital refuses treatment Man dies
Posted: 5/4/2008 8:22:51 AM |
.. Bet they don't make vaccines in Marijuana...
Well, technically they could, right?
Agroinfiltration is a method in plant biology to induce transient expression of genes in a plant or to produce a desired protein. In the method a suspension of Agrobacterium is injected into a plant leaf, where it transfers the desired gene to plant cells. The benefit of agroinfiltration when compared to traditional plant transformation is speed and convenience.
First step of the protocol is to introduce a gene of interest to a strain of Agrobacterium. Subsequently the strain is grown in a liquid culture and the resulting bacteria are washed and suspended into a buffer solution. This solution is then placed in a syringe (without a needle). The tip of the syringe is pressed against the underside of a leaf while simultaneosly applying gentle counterpressure to the other side of the leaf. The Agrobacterium solution is then injected into the airspaces inside the leaf through stomata, or sometimes through a tiny incission made to the underside of the leaf.
Once inside the leaf the Agrobacterium transforms the gene of interest to a portion of the plant cells. The gene is then transiently expressed. The plant can be monitored for a possible effect in the phenotype, subjected to experimental conditions or harvested and used for purification of protein of interest. Many plants can be transformed by this method, but the most common ones are Nicotiana benthamiana and Nicotiana tabacum'.' | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 8:31:17 AM |
My nieces husband died waiting for a liver transplant because of smoking pot. The pot kept his nausea down. He stopped smoking for a year but it still showed up in his tests. THC can form crystals in the tissue causing you to test positive even though you have not smoked in six months to a year.
This would be my guess why he didn't stop. It would be a long time for the tests to show he was clean...
If using hard drugs he would should clean on a blood test in a very short time...
. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 9:22:05 AM | | To Mr P...... Let me explain something to u that might actually give u a better insite of what this thread is all about. Before u add a thread i would like to state, that u need to be in someones shoes before hand. I am not a pot smoker, but do know many. But have had 2 major surgery's on my kidneys, if i were to use pot as a pain killer by no means would it harm me in any way. But to drink yes that would put me at risk of needing a transplant. So i choose not to drink. But if the time ever comes that i had to resort to smoking pot then by all means i will do so. Please keep in mind i am a canidate to receive it from the government if i choose. One thing alot are missing in this thread is, everyone has a right to live a full life to the max. No one is god and to persume u are is a rather disturbing thing to know. If u ask me then they should ban all forms of alchol, that kills not just the body, but people that abuse u and drive.We have seen many die from it, where do u ever hear that they die from smoking pot. Wake up sun shine get ur facts straight before u start making out that u are all that and a bag of chips. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 9:56:55 AM | Hep C affects the liver period. You can have a damaged liver with just that, no alcohol involved.
And to J.P.. I can appreciate your pain regarding your mother, BUT, you did not experience her pain, just yours in watching her. And yes, being on the painkillers, she would have been out of it. For those of us who deal with these patients on the front line, the physicians, the hospice care nurss, lab techs, etc, I think we have more knowledge, than you do, JP, regarding this. And our opinions will vary, as is proved by this thread.
And I am Canadian also, to the other who stated that. Although I fail to see what that has to do with this. Although David Sazuki had a show on 12 years ago about medicinal marujuana in Vancouver. It was televised to us, and followed patients and their pain regarding their illnesses, And also the places in California that sold it per prescription.
In a circle he had 6 patients, some with cancer, one with Parkinson's, one with MS.
They each smoked a joint. The Parkinson patient had his nurse hold the joint to his lips, as his tremours were so severe he couldn't hold anything, for the severe shaking. In 15 minutes that man, was able to hold a spoon and eat a bowl of soup. The 70 year old in New Brunswick, who had cancer, gained 20lbs, and was in remission for his cancer. And he smoked a joint a day. His wife was happy he was alive, and didn't care if he had the munchies and had to make chocolate cakes a lot. How can your body fight a disease when you fill it with Javex to kill the cells, and it also makes you vomit. How can you ingest nutrition to make your body stronger to fight off the disease, if your vomitting it up. Are you going to sit there and tell me these people smoked it to get high?
I hope you never get sick like that.
But, back to the thread. The hospice nurse said it right, there was no guarantee he would get a transplant, but he would at least would have been in the running.
So, to the people in the medical field, I respect your opinion, even though I may not agree with it. To the couch potato doctors,your opinion is just that. An opinion.
Canada has marijuana that it sells legally, only the gov't charges more than the street, and the potency is minor.
When the gov't changes it's legislation from a negative to a positive regarding medical marijuana, watch the masses change their tune also. And I suspect if it can make a monetary profit, it will!
The same way it did with alcohol, and now with tobacco.
And one last point here. Everyone is individual regarding their pain threshold. A Tylenol #3 can kill someones pain, and to others, not even touch it. As in potency degrees in legal drugs, there are the same in marijuana. No doubt this debate will carry on for a long time, with some valid points on both sides, but, I am on the pro medicinal side.Period. And I don't want to see someone die, because of ignorance and or arrogance. How can we put a dollar value on life? It's priceless. | |
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| Man dies as result of Liver Failure
Posted: 5/4/2008 10:44:47 AM | JamesP166... msg 45
again a lot of this post is simply people trying to justify their wanting to enjoy hits - - - -
the stories about how it is good for you - - - and the facts showing the other side - - -
and the comments about legal drugs and allergic to all of them - - - that is simply not true, allergic to so many different drugs - - - - well, I had a friend that was Allergic to all legal drugs and other pills - - - turns out that they use powdered milk as the filler - - - low cost, in powder form, can easily be mixed with any drugs, and pressed to shape. - - - He was allergic to the powdered milk, - - - yips. - - - - but this is not the posters problem - -
she is simply wanting to justify that taking a hit is perfectly fine - - - - and no logic will convince her otherwise - - - - - -
How self- righteous you must be that in your mind everyone should be the same. I've said before that I am not going to tell my story in this forum, but I must counter a few of the fallacies you present in your disjointed posts.
Fact is that I am allergic to petroleum that is in everything everywhere... to name some common things: conventional food, cleaning and personal care products including prescription drugs, synthetic vitamins and ingredients in cheap nutritional supplements.
I take nothing when I go to the dentist, I've had a couple cavities over the years and I'm allergic to Novocaine (no powdered milk there) so I deal with that pain... would be nice to have a little weed. Beyond that, I react to the cleaning chemicals that are used in the dentists office (clinics and hospitals are the worst), but it is necessary for me to go twice a year.
I also react when I take antibiotics (no powdered milk there either) and had to take it for 10 days last year when I was bitten by a deer tick... I took the antibiotic because the lymes alternative would have been much worse. I wished I'd had some weed at that time as I was miserable for 2 weeks and felt fair to partly horsesh*t for a while after that.
I do not regularly smoke marijuana, but I am not averse to it... now pay attention here... because it doesn't make me sick. But if I were in so much pain everyday, I would want something just like anyone would. Some people are happy to get their "hit" from prescription drugs... I'm not, because they do not make me happy.
Irony would be that you feel as bad at some time in your life and think back on your self righteous judgment of others less fortunate. Trust me, your day will come and you will need a "hit"... could be a long drop and a hard landing from your perch so far above reality.
So much hype and self justification - - - lack of knowledge and understanding
Important to note just where it's coming from...
"Self-preservation is the first law of nature" --S. Butler, Remains (c. 1675)
Edit: bren1954... Thank you for your posts and comment yesterday
jacqh43
One thing alot are missing in this thread is, everyone has a right to live a full life to the max.
Thanks... I am grateful and consider myself fortunate that I don't have to live my life to satisfy JamesP166 and others narrow view of reality. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:06:00 AM | My nieces husband died waiting for a liver transplant because of smoking pot. The pot kept his nausea down. He stopped smoking for a year but it still showed up in his tests. THC can form crystals in the tissue causing you to test positive even though you have not smoked in six months to a year.
My comment is did he really stop or was he sneaking a hit once in a while - - -
I had a friend that had some major heart problems - - ordered to stop drinking - -
he would sneak all the time - - - they found out when cleaning out his office and production area - - - found lots of bottles - - - - and the son later was drinking with the family and realized that nothing was happening after a couple of drinks - - so he took some straight and found out the vodka - - had been replaced with water - - - -
Jim P | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:21:38 AM | what a comment
One thing alot are missing in this thread is, everyone has a right to live a full life to the max. No one is god and to persume u are is a rather disturbing thing to know.
I am not god nor is any one else but some people have been put in that position - - -
there is not enough liver's to be given to everyone - - - So they have to pick and choose - - so if you were the one to have the job of choosing - - who would you choose to have the liver - - -
I agree with your comment that all have the right to live the life to the fullest - - - and I do - -
but of the thousands wanting that liver - - who do you give it to - - who gets a second chance at living life to the fullest - - - - -
a man that has Hep C - - which is mainly caused by sharing needles and heavy drug use - - - and what experience has shown that this type of person will simply continue to abuse himself in what you call living life to the fullest - - - and destroy the liver in a couple of years - - this is what the experience of the medical profession has shown. - - -
This man states he was sharing needles as a teenager. He died at 56. So he was doing hard drugs for 40 years - - - - in what you call living life to the fullest - - - - So you expect him to stop - - - with a new liver?
I have a friend that passed on from liver failure - - - I can not say about his youth but in the 14 years that I knew him, he never took a drink - even at parties with everyone else drinking - - never did drugs. - - - - now this guy did not deserve to have liver failure - - -
when living life to the fullest means abusing your body and then demand a replacement so that you can continue to abuse yourself - - - while others are not able to get a replacement - - that is plainly wrong - - - -
like one posted - - - 6000 livers are available each year - - while 100,000 people need the liver - - - - - how would you decide who gets the liver? - - - - - - - - one that in 2 or 3 years will be bad demanding an other because he destroyed the replacement?
Or the one that shows the best promise to benefit fully and take care of the replacement - - - who would you decide - - - - someone has to decide - - - - - Simply lottery is not good enough - - -
Jim P. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:36:16 AM | response to
And to J.P.. I can appreciate your pain regarding your mother, BUT, you did not experience her pain, just yours in watching her. And yes, being on the painkillers, she would have been out of it. For those of us who deal with these patients on the front line, the physicians, the hospice care nurss, lab techs, etc, I think we have more knowledge, than you do, JP, regarding this. And our opinions will vary, as is proved by this thread.
I would like to point out a fact that a friend of mine pointed out - - heroin is legal to be prescribed in England - - - that is right - - -
part of heroin is that it is a great pain killer but also highly addicting - - -
They prescribe this to patients in the last days of their lives with painful death coming - cancer etc. - - -
Her doctor reacted when she said this to him - - His response was - it is addicting - -
her response to him was - - so the person is going to die in 3 month to a year anyway. So what does this matter - - -
and it allows for the persons mind to be reasonably clear - not like a lot of other pain killers.
as for MJ for medical reasons, I feel that for medical reasons is abused and self justified and that has been stated and agreed to by many others - - - -
I keep myself reasonably clean - - I have watched to many people abuse drugs, MJ, and alcohol - - and the effects it has on their life.
and yes, I have chronic pain but deal with it - - - Aleve - - does not remove the pain totally. My pain came from living life to the fullest - - - being active - - joint pain - -
Jim P. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:36:49 AM | To Jim P 166
Ignorance MUST be BLISS!
To Bohemianjack:
You are so welcome, and I thank you for enlightening me regarding petroleum and medicinal drugs.
Okay now, beam me up Scotty, me thinks I've read enough!
Bren1954 | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 11:48:11 AM | To Jp166 msg 62
My apologies to you and your pain regarding this message. Now you sound human, not so self righteous. Your mom was right, what difference does it make at that point.
Yet, I have seen so many patients dying, and the doctors are ordering bloodwork done daily, why? When they are in excrutiating pain. And tests daily, and have also seen members of the health field that are the caregivers, lose sight of their compassion.
So, I am sorry for your loss, and the helplessness you must have felt in that period of your life.
I'm glad Aleve can help you, but in other's it can't. That's the point of this all. We all have our own experience to bring to the table, but nobody can truly understand unless they've been there. And marijuana is an alternate. Not everyone who drinks becomes an alcoholic, same with the above. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 4:33:02 PM | bren1954
right on about the david suzuki documentary...i vaguely remember it, but yes it was all true. there wasn't a single test patient in that who didn't benefit. a close childhood friend of mine died at 21 from cancer and the only thing that gave her any kind of relief from her hysterectomy, bone marrow transplant, kidney dialysis and chemo treatments was having a toke! she had a permit for it as well. you're right, it's difficult to recover from something when your body is revolting against the idea of food. i too work in the healthcare field and i see all sorts of maladies that i feel could easily be lessened in regards to pain, if they could just light up! | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 4:37:34 PM | | oh bren 1954. i know that 'Hep C affects the liver period' however, the post also indicated that this man drank heavily as well and was infected with hep c by drug abuse...that was the point i was making. pot or refusing surgery because of pot wasn't the cause. i'm guessing this medical board reviewed all the extenuating circumstances, etc., and determined that perhaps he just wasn't a good candidate. sad, but most likely true. and who said anything about living in canada or not having anything to do with it? although we have a great healthcare system, i doubt that has anything to do with it. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/4/2008 10:44:28 PM | | Mr P as we will call u, in response to u. There are many people in this country of ours that received Aids, Hep C, all from a needle. And that needle was given to people that needed a blood transfusion, Hemophilliacs for one. All of the men that have this disease have passed away, or they are still suffering from the lack of knowledge that our government had back in the 80's regarding this horrible mistake that was transfered to hundreds. These men didn't deserve to die, or to obtain a bad batch of blood, but what u are saying is that since they received it, and are need of medical help at all times. That we shouldn't put them on the list of a transplant, because hey they aren't going to servive so why waste a body tissue on them. My 16 yr old nephew passed away from the result of what i stated above, he didn't do drugs nor drink, but since he had a non curable disease why waste it on him. Do the math before u add things that u have no idea about. Sad that people can say things and feel that they are justified on there quotes. It is a sickening day to know that we have attitudes as urself in life, as i stated everyone has a right to live, regardless of there medical. The last time i heard was that if u had 2 feet 2 arms and a head u were called a human. What right do u have to think that people that are in need of medical be pushed aside for the healthy to be. No one is healthy we all have issue's, as u have urself. So u need to relax on ur thoughts about this forum, until you walk in their shoes u will never know what it feels like to have to have that joint to at least help them make it through the day. Lets hope that u never have to experience there suffering, and if it happens i gurantee u will change ur thoughts on life to the max. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:49:45 AM |
who deserves the liver more and how long will the patient live and benefit due to the transplant should always be paramount as to who gets it
id gladly step aside if i was 50 yrs old and there was a 20 yr old kid that needed the same organ
very well put. excellent point of view! there is such a long wait for organ donation and i too agreed that it should be based on need. many people complain about the canadian healthcare system and the time it can sometimes take in regards to surgeries. it's done on the need basis and organ transplats should as well. if there is a 6 year old waiting for a liver with the same tissue type as this man, i think the 6 year old is more entitled to it. is it fair or right to play god? no, however, this man abused his body for years...what are the chances he'd stop after the transplant? then you have a 6 year old (example) who hasn't done a thing to deserve liver problems, with their whole life ahead of them. if you were on a review board in this situation, who would you approve/deny for something like this? | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:14:44 AM | jiperly....
Pot is natural
Again, let me say I am a pro-smoker. But, pot these days is MUCH more potent then say 25 years ago. No, you can't 'overdose' on pot. And 'pot' won't kill you unless you are allergic to it. I guess I see the point as to why it is illegal..since it does impair your judgement and there have been plenty of people I know that have been high and wrecked their car. BUT...if they say pot should be illegal, then I think they should make alcohol illegal. It's all about someones perception on pot. Obviously the DR who refused the transplant had a very skewed perception on marjiuana and decided to judge the man for his use...rather than 'judge' him for his disease and need for a new liver.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/5/2008 3:41:30 PM |
Obviously the DR who refused the transplant had a very skewed perception on marjiuana and decided to judge the man for his use...rather than 'judge' him for his disease and need for a new liver.
Good point Welder!
Seems I recall stories of the rich sailing to the
front of the line for transplant organs which
are precious few and far between.
One wonders what doctors endure, making
decisions under pressure, who lives,
who dies? Certainly , not all decisions are
easy to call. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:34:40 PM |
Obviously the DR who refused the transplant had a very skewed perception on marjiuana and decided to judge the man for his use...rather than 'judge' him for his disease and need for a new liver.
Seems I recall stories of the rich sailing to the front of the line for transplant organs which are precious few and far between. One wonders what doctors endure, making decisions under pressure, who lives, who dies? Certainly , not all decisions are
easy to call.
am i one of the only few who actually read the whole story?? this guy abused drugs as a teen and developed hep c from a dirty needle. he was also an alcoholic...THOSE things were what caused his liver problems....things he chose to do. the american health care system or money had nothing to do with it! why give him a new liver when little 6 year old johnny needs one as well, but isn't going to go out on a bender all weekend when released from the hospital?
i can confidently say that the decision had nothing to do with the marijuana use at all...especially since it was prescribed by his doctor in the first place. i work in a hospital folks, there comes a point where healthcare professionals kind of give up on certain people when they don't seem to want to help themselves! as sad as it is, there were no doubt young children and people who didn't self inflict liver problems, on the list as well and should be ahead of someone who's had a lifelong substance abuse problem. PERIOD! | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:06:29 PM |
this guy abused drugs as a teen and developed hep c from a dirty needle. he was also an alcoholic...THOSE things were what caused his liver problems....things he chose to do. the american health care system or money had nothing to do with it!
You raise some interesting questions. Do people who make health-compromising lifestyle choices deserve to suffer the health consequences that inevitably come later? Does their prior poor decision-making warrant our denial of the basic human right to good health in the present?
I don't know... but I do think it's important that we, as a society, establish some clear ethical guidelines to guide our decision-making in these often controversial matters.
why give him a new liver when little 6 year old johnny needs one as well, but isn't going to go out on a bender all weekend when released from the hospital?
Now are you going to tell Little Johnny he'll get his liver as soon as he can outbid Larry Hagman or am I? | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 4:40:52 AM | Well, its really getting into another issue with weither or not he deserved a new liver, but to say that he's depriving a child of a new liver is kinda skewing the facts- after all, it takes a certain blood type to accept a liver, and I'm assuming that a child cannot accept an adults liver- but then again, that's an assumption, nothing more- feel free to correct me.
While we're asking weither or not this man should be allowed a liver rather than it be given to a child, we also have to ask weither or not we should hold onto livers incase a child who needs it comes along- should we save this mans life with a liver when has no one else is claiming it, or should we let him die in case of someone more deserving comes along and needs it? And by whose standards are these values on human lives placed? Wouldn't there be a great expanse in place for interpretation that allows for this noble goal to be perverted into simple murder by ignoring those who need treatment in lue of those whom someone claims has a greater value?
Its questions like these that make for a very disturbing society.... | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 5:50:31 AM |
Do people who make health-compromising lifestyle choices deserve to suffer the health consequences that inevitably come later? Does their prior poor decision-making warrant our denial of the basic human right to good health in the present?
I don't know... but I do think it's important that we, as a society, establish some clear ethical guidelines to guide our decision-making in these often controversial matters.
Now are you going to tell Little Johnny he'll get his liver as soon as he can outbid Larry Hagman or am I?
i never said this was ok (i do believe i put in a previous post that it's sad but true)...i said this is most likely what happened. and sorry, but i live in canada where little johnny wouldn't have to worry about being outbid. here, surgeries and transplants are based on need/severity of the situation. it may mean someone will have to wait for 6 months, but they'll get it before it's too late. the "outbidding" issue is something you'll have to debate with another american where i'm not familiar with it, i don't think it is an issue i should debate.
think of how long it takes to find the perfect match with organ donation. now put a small child and a grown man beside one another. the small child tells you he wants to be an astronaut or something when he grows up. the man beside you tells you about his drug abuse, his alcoholism and how he quit drinking only a short time ago just so he could have his surgery. are you trying to tell me that it would not cross your mind that this guy may very well waste a perfectly good liver while the little boy beside him, who has his whole life ahead of him and was eagerly looking forward to it, slowly dies? then a week after the man was released from the hospital after his transplant, you find out that he's hit someone because he was driving drunk. how would that make you feel if you were on this medical team who made the choice? i know it's just a scenario i made up, but that is how the team who made the decision were thinking. they have to when lists are so long in order to determine who goes to the top of the list. sad but true. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 7:51:45 AM | >>> i know it's just a scenario i made up
And your scenario is, frankly, self serving- its an attempt to justify your beliefs by claiming that there can only be evil and good- that the child is innocence, purity, and free of guilt of poor decisions, while the adult is evil, self-mutilating, and deserves his fate where the child does not. Your example does not warrant an answer because your created a situation where you are always right- that the man must die so that the child can live.
We will never find an answer to the question of who deserves to live and who deserves to die if the only question we will ask ourselves is the choice between good and evil. Not every choice will be that way- the adult who is dying will not always be evil or guilty of their own poor decisions, and the child who is dying will not always be good or innocent of their own health and well being. Presenting scenarios like those serves no purpose than pander for praise at your ability to be the judge and jury at the value of human life when it is at its extremes- but not in reality.
How do we know this man died so a child could use the liver he was on a waiting list for? How do we know that the man who sold him his first gram of crack isn't the one who got the liver? Or a man who drank even heavier, but had the strength to stop taking pain killers long enough for the surgery? What if the liver went to a 16 year old who dropped out of school at 9 and spent the last 7 years drinking his liver into its death? Does the age of the victim somehow change the need for it?
You're justifying the doctors refusing service based on the belief that his sacrifice was for a far nobler cause than what this man lived for- but we don't know this- its nothing more than an assumption. | |
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