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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/6/2008 8:44:45 AM | please explain how Marijuana would effect timber and petroleum industries - - - -
Hemp is better for Paper then tress, grows faster and needs less processing.
Alcohol was used as fuel long before we got petroleum to do the job. Alcohol is made from Bio-mass. As Hemp is the Fastest growing plant on the planet, it could be a major competion for your fuel dollars.
And today with everyone looking for a better way to fuel their engines and our ever informed media suggesting that rising food cost are due to the increased demand for Alcohol, we really need to take a fresh look at this issue.
I am amazed at all the misconceptions and misinformation shown in this thread.
Gee people do a little reseach.
You could start here:
http://www.jackherer.com/ | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/6/2008 9:22:26 AM | Marijuana is illegal for many pathetic reasons, NONE of which being medical.
#1 reason - the Government would not be able to regulate the distribution and taxation.
#2 reason - its use is not socially acceptable due to inaccurate and poor advertising ie. Anti-Drug campain that is blatantly suggestive without proper premise.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------there is not 1 recorded death due to the use of marijuana, either direct or indirect - yet how many people die from smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol EVERY DAY?! and both are legal, and the government taxes the s-h-!-t out of both substances.
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as per an anti-drug commercial, i KNOW everyone has seen, 2 adolesents that find their parents 'stash' get stoned (not the same as high) and get their parents' gun and make fun of pretending to shoot themselves, one, in the head, only the gun is loaded and strangely enough the gun isn't trigger locked. both adolesents are laughing and having fun, just then, the commercial cuts to black and you hear the gun discharge followed by the anti-drug campain slogan and logo. what BULLS-H-!-T peeps, that doesn't happen. that commercial should have been aimed at idiots that leave loaded firearms laying around not locked in a locker without trigger locks on. marijuana doesn't make you think in a way that you would physically harm yourself. marijuana doesn't slow your reflexes, distort reality or any one of the 100's of BS things that i've seen or read about in the anti-drug campains. its worst and most prominent side effect is anti-socialism and an unnatural erge to eat munchies. oh lord! everyone get the hell out of the house, davies got the munchies!  | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 4:24:46 PM |
And your scenario is, frankly, self serving- its an attempt to justify your beliefs by claiming that there can only be evil and good- that the child is innocence, purity, and free of guilt of poor decisions, while the adult is evil, self-mutilating, and deserves his fate where the child does not. Your example does not warrant an answer because your created a situation where you are always right- that the man must die so that the child can live.
it is not self serving...it's realistic because this is most likely the reason for the decision made. not once have i said that i agree with it...i'm putting the reality of it out there. how is it self serving when i've never once said that i condone it? i do believe i've put "sad but true" atleast once!
You're justifying the doctors refusing service based on the belief that his sacrifice was for a far nobler cause than what this man lived for- but we don't know this- its nothing more than an assumption.
you're right, it isn't anything more than an assumption...however it is an educated one. i work in a hospital, my uncle is a doctor and my mother and aunts are nurses. i gained some inside perspective before posting. perhaps you should do the same before attacking someones post and get self righteous with them and what they've said when atleast twice now they don't necessarily agree with it.
also, i've been refused a breast reduction surgery because i do not have children even though i have constant severe back pain. however, it was explained to me and i've relented. do i agree with that? absolutely not, but i understand and respect the reasoning behind it. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/6/2008 4:44:13 PM | | I do not ,have never ,and never will use Pot. However,the Feds need to but out. And doctors should be able to prescribe whatever medication they need to. Without government intervention. (and some of you are considering letting the government have more control) | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/6/2008 5:48:11 PM |
This is true of marijuana also when smoked. Smoking cigarettes typically takes many years to cause chronic lung disease. Smoking marijuana regularly can do this in as little as two years! If the person agrees to stop smoking BOTH, I don't see a problem.
What the h*ll does this have to do with the man's liver desease...
Scenario: You personally have ONE liver to give someone, do you give it to the otherwise healthy 15 y/o or the binge drinking 57 y/o with a history of careless driving charges?
Me, since I have one liver and must choose I opt for the kids cuz that one liver most likely means more years for him than for the other guy. These are the decisions the doc's have to make. Sometimes it is as simple s that rather than a hidden agenda. Although since the reason fo the pot use seems to be related to the Hep C shouldn't the transplant remove the need for awhile afterwards ? | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 6:01:55 PM | >>>.i'm putting the reality of it out there.
But its equally- strike that, more likely- that the liver is NOT going to a small child who wants to be an astronaut, but another grown adult who made poor life decisions involving liquor. You cannot claim you are speaking of reality, then complain that people object when your reality is based on assumptions rather than facts. We are talking the life and death of a man, and you want to make the assumption that he died so a child may live- but we don't know that- this man might die so that a 78 year old prostitute who drinks themselves stupid and shares needles with anyone who enters their home everyday may live- why do you disregard the far greater chances of that and instead cling to the hope that this man was allowed to die for noble causes?
According to the Liver Transplant Program and Center for Liver Disease, the majority of Liver Transplants in the US is because of Hep B and C, accounting for 20-30% of all transplants- coming in second is alcohol abuse, accounting for 20%- and according to the Canadian institute for Health Information, 60% of those who receive liver transplants are between 18 and 64.
This man more likely died because of his drug habits so another person may live with THEIR drug habits. Don't sugar coat it, then whine that people won't swallow. Your scenario WAS self-serving- you may not like to hear it, but its true.
So, please, stop hiding behind children to find support in allowing this man to die because he refused to stop taking pain killers. Its not at all the majority, and a complete assumption. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 6:29:40 PM | Organ transplants go 1st to those they will help most. Simple fact(except for those that can pay to jump the to the front), now the factors involved can include:
How desperate the recipient needs the transplant. (Clearly this guy did need it sooner rather than later)
How long the individual is likely to survive vs another potential recipient. And just as you say no one knows who the liver went to (if there was even an available match as I read it to be that he was not even on the waiting list). So then you cannot know the level of benefit for the person that did get the liver if there was one. And remember that the other person waiting could well have died too and we know nothing of that person circumstances at all either.
Halfa$$ed armchair surgeons with less than 10% of the information is laughable.
This man more likely died because of his drug habits so another person may live with THEIR drug habits. Don't sugar coat it, then whine that people won't swallow. Your scenario WAS self-serving- you may not like to hear it, but its true.
So, please, stop hiding behind children to find support in allowing this man to die because he refused to stop taking pain killers. Its not at all the majority, and a complete assumption.
Not hiding behind children btw age is another factor in transplant candidacy. And there you have it, if the rehab really was for just the prescribed pot and not meth in a blood screen (this is where not having all relavent info makes armchair critiques pointless and frankly I have little faith in journalistic integrity as a sole source). In the end right or wrong he chose his pot over life, seems remarkably stupid to me. Even if I was in severe pain and had an option to suffer with the pain short term in order to live a fairly normal life versus dampen pain till the very end and ensure my own demise the choice still seems clear. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 7:20:29 PM |
based on assumptions rather than facts
everyone's opinion on the topic is based on assumption. everyone immediately assumed that it was due to smoking pot when there stands a very good chance that it wasn't. and everyone is assuming the right or wrong reason for this man being denied a transplant. i'm not hiding behind children to make my point...i'm not hiding behind anything. i'm giving an example on how a medical team may be making their decision. and what if it's an 18 year old who has a bright future ahead of them VS an alcoholic or something? (since you got the facts and all)
how was my scenario self serving? if that is the case, then anything you've posted is self serving as well. that is what a debate is genius, to prove your point using facts and researched information. you're not making any sense! what i've been saying is IT IS AN EXAMPLE ON HOW A MEDICAL TEAM BASES THEIR DECISION...I NEVER SAID IT WAS RIGHT FOR ANYONE TO PLAY GOD JUST STATING HOW LIFE IS IN THESE SITUATIONS. most of my family and i work in healthcare and see these scenarios on a regular basis! that is how i am basing my opinions...by asking medical professionals what their take is on this topic. it's realistic when you ask those who have the answers!
furthermore, people are turned down daily for surgeries, many of which are life saving, or forced to wait because of obesity or smoking. no one sees anything wrong with that because it's considered to be the person's own fault because of their food addiction and lack of physical activity or because of their nicotine addiction. reason for this? because the risks of surgery in their condition outweigh the benefits. has it occured to you that perhaps this man's body wouldn't have been able to withstand a surgery of this nature and could have died in the operating room? | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/6/2008 7:54:05 PM | to add to my above comment...
~with the scarcity of donated organs, transplant committees like the one at the university of washington medical center use tough standards, including whether the candidate has other serious health problems or is likely to drink or do drugs.
~in addition to medical concerns, transplant committees - which often include surgeons, social workers, and nutritionists - must evaluate whether patients have the support and psychiatric health to cope with a complex post-operative regimen for the rest of their lives.
hmmm....interesting...it's exactly what i've been saying and it came from a medical transplant association. isn't that just fascinating?!! | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:58:17 PM | I am in 100% agreeance of Vicious Vixen, who is correct fully.
when you become Chief of Staff for a particular hospital, and your a$$ is on the line for making judgement calls on sugical procedures, you will make a better, more informed decision on what could, should, and would happen in your hospital. the medical use of marijuana does not govern whether someone will get the transplant they need to survive or not. of course its a consideration, but its a very low consideration. the legality of it is inconsequencial, as I stated above, marijuana is not illegal for any medical related reason.
and as for the guy that thinks marijuana is more likely to cause lung disease in a shorter span of time than cigarettes (as short as 2 years)... go back to school guy, you aren't very smart - you must be employed by the government, the dept. of IDKS! | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/7/2008 7:35:48 PM |
as for the guy that thinks marijuana is more likely to cause lung disease in a shorter span of time than cigarettes (as short as 2 years)... go back to school guy, you aren't very smart
It is not just my opinion. According to an Article in an issue of JAMA about 8 years ago, chronic daily smoking of Marijuana causes chronic bronchitis in as little as 2 years. They had not found there to be any increase in incidence of Emphasema at that time.
It is odd to tell people what they would do or think as Chief of Staff of a hospital when at age 31 it is highly unlikely that you are even a physician (or at least not a very experienced one) and impossible for you to be a Chief of Staff. I do agree of course that there are many things to consider when determining if a person would be a good organ transplant recipient. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:34:57 PM | Jana60
when you become Chief of Staff for a particular hospital, and your a$$ is on the line for making judgement calls on sugical procedures, you will make a better, more informed decision on what could, should, and would happen in your hospital
i think he was simply making that statement to prove a point...i don't think his intention was to impersonate a doctor or anything. it's painfully obvious that is what he is doing so why would you pick that apart? just like the guy who said i was self serving or hiding behind a child because i mentioned a child in an example of how these things are determined. seriously!  | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:27:18 PM | | Given what I have read here, it sounds like in a few years that people will be refused transplants if they smoke tobacco or over eat. After people get used to that I suppose the next step will be to refuse hospital treatment too for the same reasons. It’s sooo nice to know that we have elite people looking after us for our own good despite what we may think we want in our lifestyle. I guess the concept of freedom is old fashioned and it is better replaced with an intellectually superior class of people to make decisions for us, again for our own good. Stuff like this is good like in England when they do not tell an elderly person about an operation that could extend their life because the same resources can be used to save a younger person yielding a better return for the pound. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:55:47 PM | | My boyfriend was sick with a tumor which turned out to be cancer. The dr. said that they had to take it out as it grew but the dr. waited over a yr. Shortly after they had to take out the kidney as it had cancer they waited another yr. He is my hero as he goes three days a week for treatment I must say they really treat him well. I have stayed with him all the way I don't want compliments but rather for him to have a long life. In the last few months they discovered a mass on the vein of his other kidney. I will be by his side because I loved him and will always love him even if he turns away from me if I canot be with him as he is very angry I will be with him in spirit. My main message is never give up hope. I am ill with a serious ailment multiple sclerosis and he has stayed by my side. I must say that when I have been in Montreals terrible emergency he has just shown to suprise me it is worth any amount of money or riches it is sooo nice to know someone cares. We are a partnership and I hope that continues. For whatever time we both have left. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:59:18 PM | | If someone need marijuana for pain and appetite then they should have the choice to do so. I have chosen not to go that route for my ailemnt( multiple sclerosis) but I donot look down on people who do to each his own. Besides there is recreational pot and medical marijuan | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/8/2008 5:51:35 AM | warmthnpassion
it sounds like in a few years that people will be refused transplants if they smoke tobacco or over eat. After people get used to that I suppose the next step will be to refuse hospital treatment too for the same reasons. It’s sooo nice to know that we have elite people looking after us for our own good despite what we may think we want in our lifestyle.
you're joking right? people are already refused here in canada (where we have free healthcare! well, it' s not really free because of our taxes but whatever!) every day for smoking and obesity and i already put why...THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE THE REQUIRED SURGERY BECAUSE OF THE LIFESTYLE CHOICES!!! that doesn't make an elitist society you bonehead. did you not read either of my last 2 posts that clearly state this and explain why?? also, i actually found pics of this guy on the net before he passed, i have a strong feeling he wasn't physically capable of surviving that surgery or the post-op either. people get educated on a topic before you go trashing us "elite people" who know the reality of a situation like this! look it up on the net, ask your doctor, whatever, but stop trashing those of us who know what goes on behind the scenes with your ignorant, unresearched and uneducated responses! | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:29:09 PM | Actually there is not one reported case of anyone dying from lung cancer or any other disease from marijuana, In fact the opposite may be true
Marijuana May Fight Lung Tumors
Cannabis Compound Slows Cancer Spread in Mice, Researchers Say
By Charlene Laino
WebMD Medical NewsReviewed by Louise Chang, MDApril 17, 2007 (Los Angeles) -- Cannabis may be bad for the lungs, but the active ingredient in marijuana may help combat lung cancer, new research suggests.
In lab and mouse studies, the compound, known as THC, cut lung tumor growth in half and helped prevent the cancer from spreading, says Anju Preet, PhD, a Harvard University researcher in Boston who tested the chemical.
While a lot more work needs to be done, “the results suggest THC has therapeutic potential,” she tells WebMD.
Moreover, other early research suggests the cannabis compound could help fight brain, prostate, and skin cancers as well, Preet says.
The findings were presented at the annual meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research.
The finding builds on the recent discovery of the body’s own cannabinoid system, Preet says. Known as endocannabinoids, the natural cannabinoids stimulate appetite and control pain and inflammation.
THC seeks out, attaches to, and activates two specific endocannabinoids that are present in high amounts on lung cancer cells, Preet says. This revs up their natural anti-inflammatory properties. Inflammation can promote the growth and spread of cancer.
In the new study, the researchers first demonstrated that THC inhibited the growth and spread of cells from two different lung cancer cell lines and from patient lung tumors. Then, they injected THC into mice that had been implanted with human lung cancer cells. After three weeks, tumors shrank by about 50%, compared with tumors in untreated mice.
Preet notes that animals injected with THC seem to get “high,” showing signs of clumsiness and getting the munchies. “You would expect to see the same thing in humans, so if this work does pan out, getting the dose right is going to be all important,” she says.
Paul B. Fisher, PhD, a professor of clinical pathology at Columbia University, says that though the work is “interesting,” it’s still very early.
“The issue with using a drug of this type becomes the window of concentration that will be effective. Can you physiologically achieve what you want without causing unwanted effects?” he tells WebMD.
There is a lot of evidence that cannabis fights cancer effectively. | |
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| Man dies as result of Medical Marijuana Use
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:33:26 PM | Ummm you do know that alcohol is a natural substance too right? Check out slightly over ripe apples in any orchard.
Gotta love how potheads jump on anything as discrimination. Frankly if the transplant doc said "no tylenol for 6 months" and this guy refused then ultimately he chose his own end. Really couldn't give a rat-a$$ if it was over pot or not.
This guy destroyed his own liver with life-style choices. Then ensured his own death with yet another choice. Sure he has the right to make those choices for himself, but no one has the right to b1tch about not liking the consequences. Sorry I'll save my sympathy for those that actually deserve it. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:54:21 PM | | Vicious... One can always identify the ignorant because they always resort to name calling for lack of anything of substance to say. The missive was satirical but I guess that shot over your head. Hell on earth to me is having government run healthcare. One’s choice of lifestyle is certainly not something I want in the hands of government. Government run anything quickly attracts the incompetent as its workforce. People, well, like you. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/8/2008 5:43:08 PM | One can always identify the ignorant because they always resort to name calling for lack of anything of substance to say
i already made my case and proved my point with well researched info from the AMERICAN transplant commitee, not the canadian one. and how was the "missive satirical" while still insulting the intelligence and well researched points of view from those who see the reality of the situation. that isn't satire...that is direct and blatant hateful sarcasm. i insulted you simply because your remark had no point and was absolutely ridiculous.
One’s choice of lifestyle is certainly not something I want in the hands of government. Government run anything quickly attracts the incompetent as its workforce. People, well, like you
so you'd rather the choice be in the hands of a multi-billion dollar corporation who's only concern is the bottom line and whether or not you can pay up, regardless of your health condition? and if you aren't able to or if your HMO or healthcare provider doesn't cover something, you're turned away or given the basest of care. incompetent in its workforce huh? well, i can tell you now that i am very well educated as are the other members of my family who work in healthcare which is why i have been able to give factual, well researched and educated answers...something you have yet to do.
since you chose to attack my country's healthcare, i will educate you. our country, just like yours is run by democracy. our taxes look after the healthcare system so that when we need to see doctors, have surgeries, etc., we don't get billed or given second rate care based on the kind of health plan coverage we have from a corporation, or because of our annual income. everyone here is given the same care regardless of their earnings. if an elected prime minister were to upset this balance, he is simply not re-elected. how is that a bad thing? furthermore, you did you fail to notice that this whole debate stemmed from a situation regarding the healthcare in your country where an american health provider (ie: corporation for profit) decided this man's fate? be careful when attacking a person or their country's perks and trying to toot the horn of yours when you will fall short and your insult comes right back in your face, thus making it ineffective (and again, showing your ignorance!). perhaps you need to view the documentary from micheal moore entitled "sicko". my country is not the only one who practices this form of healthcare and it would really open your eyes. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/9/2008 10:01:41 AM | Quotes were taken from the ramblings of Vicious:
since you chose to attack my country's healthcare, i will educate you. our country, just like yours is run by democracy.
The United States is a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy. It may be a good idea for you to actually get an education before trying to educate. I said nothing about Canada so I’m not sure how you feel that I insulted your country.
… however, he was an alcoholic and that's why he needed the liver transplant in the first place.
Please re-read the original post and you will see that there is no mention at all of any alcohol abuse. Perhaps you could take a remedial critical reading course at your local high school to reduce your reading errors.
Actually, I am very critical of the current USA system and I know that more government involvement will not help here. Now, if someone has the money, there is no better medical care then in the USA and even Canadians will cross the border for that better care if they can afford it. The only public system that is currently being considered in the USA would involve the private insurance companies or as you called them, the billion dollar corporations out for a profit. The insurance companies are in fact behind the whole idea of public healthcare because it would mean huge profits for them. My concern about the American system is not one of quality but of affordability. My concern about public medical care is that care is rationed whether you realize it or not to maximize the care for the dollar. If you would like to discuss/debate the issue of public healthcare, there is another thread called “FREE Federalized Health Care.”
i do think it's silly if someone is denied surgery because they're are smoking pot, especially if his doc told him to…
As far as this post is concerned, we both are in agreement that someone that is using medical marijuana prescribed by a physician should not be denied a transplant. So, in short, we agree on the important part of the post. | |
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| Man dies as result of liver transplant refusal
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:25:28 PM | If a alcoholic stops drinking for 60 days they can get a liver transplant....
that is where i got the alcoholism. i also reasearched this topic thoroughly outside this forum as well and learned he was an alcoholic (something you should try before attempting to criticize my posts since i've been consistently able to throw your own words back in your face!). "Please re-read the original post and you will see that there is mention of alcohol abuse. Perhaps you could take a remedial critical reading course at your local high school to reduce your reading errors."
One’s choice of lifestyle is certainly not something I want in the hands of government. Government run anything quickly attracts the incompetent as its workforce. People, well, like you...I said nothing about Canada so I’m not sure how you feel that I insulted your country
hmmm...you contradicted yourself there! especially when i mentioned in a post that i am in canada and shouldn't really debate with anyone here on how the american health corporations determine eligibility (you've seemed to have read all of my comments since you're quoting them and nitpicking them) i'm very well read on the issue as i do work in healthcare, just not something i wanted to get into.
The United States is a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy
so then american citizens do not vote in politicians? democracy is defined by the following: democracy as currently understood and practiced is competitive elections. Competitive elections are usually seen to require freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and some degree of rule of law. so in the united states, it is not it's citizens who vote politcians in to represent them? the majority does not rule? that's odd...whenever i watch american politics, it seems pretty clear that if the majority of voters do not vote for someone, they aren't in office. a constitutional replublic is simply a branch of democracy...all it is are categories of individuals chosen by the people and are governed by laws in how to conduct themselves in relations to power and avoid tyranny A constitutional republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people
nice try! perhaps you should take your own advice...It may be a good idea for you to actually get an education before trying to educate.
i'm not arguing with you anymore. i was playing devils advocate in this forum by stating what the medical team was no doubt thinking by turning this man down for a transplant and that it was not solely based, if at all, on his doctor prescribed marijuana habit. i've contiuously proven my point and given straight facts by seeking information on this outside the original post. whereas you have not and are attempting to go off topic. you still haven't been able to prove me wrong or give factual information (the original post isn't a good source because it's an overview when other factors are involved here!) take care and good luck!
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