| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:02:32 PM | ^^^^Things do vary by state but who files first does also make a difference. My X had a child with another woman shortly before we got together. We were paying child support and he still will for another year. She receives $700 for one child and I receive $1600 for three. The number of children do make a difference because when her child was 10, she applied for an increase, but only got another $100 a month because in the meantime we had had three children. In another year, my support should go up the $700.
For the person that made the comment about the individuals not being "their kids," it takes more than biology to parent. I'm not reading all of the posts or back and forth but this is my answer to the original post.
I have a friend who married a woman with four kids by four guys. She claimed (something that has subsequently found to be false) that she did not know who the biological fathers of the elder three were but did the youngest. The father of the youngest was involved for a couple of years, brought xmas presents by, but the first time child support was mentioned, they never saw him again.
My friend wanted to adopt them. Gave her the money and found out during the divorce that she had spent it. He had no legal right to the children but three stayed with him unless she got pissed, then she would make the older two move in with her, until they got sick of it and moved back with their stepdad. He was the one that took care of them but she could do whatever she wanted because he had no legal parental rights.
The youngest has always lived with his stepdad, period. She has always claimed the boys on her income tax despite contributing nearly nothing to their upkeep and has never given a dime of that money to their stepdad. She even receives money from the government for kid #4 because kid #3 has a disability, which she does not give to the man that houses and feeds him.
She is now suing all four fathers for back child support and I suspect she will get the money and never give my friend a dime. It really doesn't bother him outside he feels it isn't right because she just wants easy money not what she or the boys deserve. They will also never see a dime of the money but she will probably take them to Mexico again. He feels honored to have taken care of them. But few people have that attitude.
No matter how people feel about it, I think that law albeit poorly devised, was meant to benefit children that are treated like possessions and may go from living a certain lifestyle to a totally different one because their parents and step-parents can't get their sh*t together. It seems like an honorable idea that has gone astray in the application. Kudos for all of the step-parents, whether legally required to or not, that do not abandon their children when the relationship fails. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:17:37 PM |
Would you say the same thing if both parents had adopted the child together? If not, what's the difference?
The difference is that the child was ADOPTED. As in, both of them legally and voluntarily accepted and signed for the responsibility. Not rocket science, you know.
Just like both the non-custodial parent and the step-parent were providing for the child during the step-marriage, why wouldn't they both willingly choose to support their child after? (And I stand by my argument that once you've accepted and begun raising that child as your own, biology is irrelevant; you are a parent to that child.)
Perhaps it's irrelevant for you. For others, it isn't. It's something to be decided by each individual, not by the state. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:37:13 PM | When I married my X, his stepson came with him. He lived with his mother and she didn't do much to raise him. I shed buckets of tears over that boy, what I didn't get was that even my own mother apparently thought I was crazy. Now, if he had not had a mother, if my X had been widowed and the kid lived with an aunt or something because his dad was a railroad engineer and out of town 2/3 of the time, would people have thought I was so loopy treating him as if he were my own child?
But if the child is biologically someone's child, the state should decide then as it does by making child support mandatory? Rock hunter, that logic would leave thousands of children in horrible financial situations....Oh I forgot, that's the way it was for years and years before states started getting more serious about enforcing support. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:54:29 PM | Rock hunter, that logic would leave thousands of children in horrible financial situations...
Ok, let me be clear on this: I DON'T CARE. Send them to an orphanage if mom can't support them. Perhaps if mommy had chosen better those children wouldn't be in such situations. Moreover, if they are sooooooo worried about their children, why divorce or leave the step-guy in the first place? Why is it ok to expel him from her life and family, but not his money?
If you think "it's for the children" is reason enough, perhaps you should inform the next guy you date that you are OK with demanding CS from him if a relationship occurs. After all, it's for the children, he shouldn't have any problem with it.
By the way: What about the horrible financial situation of the guy's own children caused by such an absurd law? And also the forgotten victim in these outrages: What about THE MAN's horrible financial situation caused by having to support somebody else's kids? Oh, yes, I forgot. Men are walking wallets, nothing else. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 2:00:17 PM | If the child is your biological child yes yu should pay support..but do you see the mess that has been created by the state (in Canada) dictating ex step parents should pay support?
What about the step parents rights? As I outlined earlier what about the mess multile step parents can create? (Yes multiple people paying support for one child may be good for the custodial parent but is it good for anyone else?)
In some cases it can allow someone to be a gold digger. I have a friend who is paying for his ex-step daughter's tuition and he muust also pay child support for the 22 year old. He lived with her mom for 10 momnths and mom has gone back to the young ladoes father but still my friend has to pay support.
So just how is it fair to pay child support for a child that is not yours? What if you did not bond with the child? Also how do you stop abuse of such a system? As we in Canada have not found a way to stop abuse of this system. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 2:31:12 PM | | All this law is going to do is get more and more men reluctant to get involved with single mothers. I don't want to take responsibility for a child that isn't mine. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 4:20:11 PM | I am a single mom, but I still think the law is absurd.
As Johne says, all it takes is cohabitation of six months to fall into this trap. Granted, there is a huge difference when we are talking cohabitation of, say, 10 years ... where I would hope most men would WANT to help out the children he has been part of raising for so long.
This law can just create a "golddiggers paradise" ... especially when a woman hooks more than one man for the required time period. Yes, children have needs, but both the biological father and mother are responsible for these needs.... not all the step-dads. By the way, often that is a load of crap about how "it's all for the children" ... as there are some mothers that don't even NEED the money.
Maybe men SHOULD be leary of "cohabitation" with single moms ... stick with dating for a long time ... or move out after every 5 months? Otherwise, there are agreements similar to prenups (I've yet to see one challenged though..to know if it stands up in court).
Sad that others have created such mistrust for the rest. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 4:33:30 PM | | it would be interesting to see if there are any stories of male single parents who are gold diggers, it can't just be all one sided. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 5:21:15 PM | interesting that you are with your bf and filed for support with him, that is something I never heard before
Not sure what you meant by that wander....but maybe I can clarify a bit from my end. I didn't file for child support from him...when they do the work sheet they factor in how many other children each party has from outside of that relationship. They then set a monetary value to that child or children which they deduct from his monthly earnings. When I do their worksheet online via their website the monetary value placed on our daughter is $446/mo...but they only deduct $150. If they deducted the amount that I am getting, then their incomes would be almost equal. Since they don't they say he is responsible for 60% of their care and she is only responsible for 40%. Being as how there are no child care costs since she is home while her parents are at work and her parents are home while she is at work, I just don't get why it wouldn't be 50-50.
Also, I went with him to see the child support officer b/c he isn't good with that type of thing. When something stresses him out he 'shuts down' and he ends up getting walked all over. Plus, since it is something that effects our finances, I need to be knowledgeable since I'm the one that does most of the bill paying, etc. Having to 'rearrange' expenses with a $600/mo loss is not easy to do when we scrape by as it is.
~Welder's Girl~
EDIT: Sorry, I just looked at the paperwork...he is responsible for 65.58% of their care and she is responsible for 34.42%. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:57:12 PM | | Another part of this is the family act or child support act. Prenup agreeements in Canada can not contain clauses waiving child support..it is against the law so there is no way around it...other than to not cohabitate with a single parent for the alotted time in your province. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:10:35 PM | | hmmm...that's kind of a shame, Johne102, as it could be the one thing that would make a guy feel at ease about marrying a single mom. Do you know if agreements made between a couple who are just living together can have that clause? Since they were done with a lawyer, I would assume them to be legit and binding... | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:17:45 PM | This is the problem....once you havce co-habitated for the alotted amount of time in your province (In Ontario it is 6 months) the family law act kicks in and clearly states a prenup can not contain a clause waiving child support so that clause would not stand up in court.
Again living together less than 6 months (or whatever the time frame is in your province) is the only way oiut of this or do not cohabitate at all. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:27:34 PM | welder, thanks for clarifying, that makes sense to how you got the amount.
Perhaps the reason why she is receiving more, is she's claiming rent from her parents' house, courts may determine cost of utilities, rent, water, food as well as her not working. Now if she worked, your ex can take it to court to reduce it if she has income. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/3/2008 9:42:47 PM | I am a single mom, but I still think the law is absurd.
As Johne says, all it takes is cohabitation of six months to fall into this trap. Granted, there is a huge difference when we are talking cohabitation of, say, 10 years ... where I would hope most men would WANT to help out the children he has been part of raising for so long.
This law can just create a "golddiggers paradise" ... especially when a woman hooks more than one man for the required time period. Yes, children have needs, but both the biological father and mother are responsible for these needs.... not all the step-dads. By the way, often that is a load of crap about how "it's all for the children" ... as there are some mothers that don't even NEED the money.
Maybe men SHOULD be leary of "cohabitation" with single moms ... stick with dating for a long time ... or move out after every 5 months? Otherwise, there are agreements similar to prenups (I've yet to see one challenged though..to know if it stands up in court).
If you date a single mother, and if it progresses to the stage of cohabitation, just get her to sign a lease when she moves in, or sign one if y0u move in to her place. That way, you have it on paper that she was just a tenant, or that you were... voila!
Arlo, fighting the Forces of Evil since 1965... | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/4/2008 5:59:37 AM | | Question for John102, Does that law apply if it's the woman who is the higher income earner say if she lived with a single dad and things didn't work out. Would she then be forced to pay child support for children that don't belong to her?? Or is that law for men only?? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:19:47 AM |
Question for John102, Does that law apply if it's the woman who is the higher income earner say if she lived with a single dad and things didn't work out. Would she then be forced to pay child support for children that don't belong to her?? Or is that law for men only??
It goes both ways. In fact she does not even have to be the higher income earner. Who earns the higher income has no impact on liability of cs.
But also it is not exactly as cut and dried as Johnie states. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/4/2008 8:50:28 AM | Malibu Stewve:
Where do you draw the line here? When do you say enough is enough? How many ex step parents should pay support? As westpark says it does go both ways and there can be some "wiggleroom" but where would you end all of this? As yu state it the situation you describe can create a nightmaere for visitations for the children.
What if a child has 2 ex step parents and the non custodial parent is still in the picture? How does visitation work? See how complicated this can get? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/4/2008 9:16:16 AM |
All this law is going to do is get more and more men reluctant to get involved with single mothers. I don't want to take responsibility for a child that isn't mine.
I don't either.
For a long time I preferred women without children. But with laws like that it is a matter of survival. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 11:03:30 AM | Why is it ok to expel him from her life and family, but not his money?
What about the horrible financial situation of the guy's own children caused by such an absurd law? And also the forgotten victim in these outrages: What about THE MAN's horrible financial situation caused by having to support somebody else's kids?
Rockhunter ^^^all great questions that are not addressed with the laws in place for step-parents who are forced to pay child support for an ex's children after they split.
I think there is good reasons to have a law where CS should be paid in circumstances where there is a long-term marriage and relationship to the children. I do think that too many SP have taken advantage of this law with the intent to profit from it and/or for revenge in a bad break-up.
I know only too well from experience that this law has had harsh consequences for my children and their Dad, because my ex has been forced to pay for his ex's kids who he dosen't even see.
I think people need to fight for some clarifications about this law so it dosen't finacially and emotionally continue to devastate the men (and some women) who are caught up in the loopholes of a law that was intended to help some kids..not line the pockets of a greedy parent. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 3:02:25 PM | You know, a long time ago I stopped being astounded by the hypocrisy of some single moms.
They justify everything with an "it's for the children". But within their warped logic, it's ok for everybody else to make the effort, everybody but themselves.
"My children are my life"? Bullsh*t. If it were so, they would have remained within their bad, boring, loveless marriages (provided that is no abuse) because it would have been the best for the children. Instead, they decided that their children weren't worth the sacrifice of their "happiness", so they left. But of course, the sacrifice they weren't able to do, they demand it from the next unlucky guy that crosses their paths.
Yes, I know most single moms are not like that. But every time I hear an "I need help to support my children" I think: "Then you should have remained married". | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 3:24:13 PM | | Some good answers here. rock hunter said it best. I think It's a goldmine for some single moms and dads. It's too bad that the government let it go that way. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 5:40:57 PM | I apologize for not responding to so many of the posts here. I will do so when I get time (things have been very busy; I've been spending lots of time with my kids).
However, I just had to respond to rock hunter's latest post.
"My children are my life"? Bullsh*t. If it were so, they would have remained within their bad, boring, loveless marriages (provided that is no abuse) because it would have been the best for the children. Instead, they decided that their children weren't worth the sacrifice of their "happiness", so they left. But of course, the sacrifice they weren't able to do, they demand it from the next unlucky guy that crosses their paths.
Yes, I know most single moms are not like that. But every time I hear an "I need help to support my children" I think: "Then you should have remained married".
This is, by far, the most biased, unrealistic, and completely absurd line of b.s. I've seen posted in a long time. Sometimes, even in non-abusive marriages, the best thing for the children if for the parents to split up. For instance, my wife and I were both miserable and arguing on a nearly daily basis before we separated. Since the split, we've been able to get along better and are more cooperative. Also, when we do argue, the kids aren't hearing it. (We tried to prevent that before with limited success.)
Also, if the father makes up his mind to leave and chooses not to work on reconciliation, how can you fault the mother? If the father runs off and moves in with another woman, how can you fault the mother? (Feel free to reverse the genders here, and the same principles still apply.) A parent can try to remain in the marriage, but if their spouse wants out, there's not much that can be done. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 6:33:23 PM | This is, by far, the most biased, unrealistic, and completely absurd line of b.s. I've seen posted in a long time.
Don't worry, I'm sure you will surpass it without much effort.
For instance, my wife and I were both miserable and arguing on a nearly daily basis before we separated.
Is it just me, or that falls squarely within the "abuse" (in its verbal category) definition?
Therefore, my "(provided that there is no abuse)" clause applies. And I stand by what I say: If there is no abuse, just your classic "I'm not happy, he's a good man but I'm bored" b.s., then don't complain if the pasture isn't greener at the other side.
A parent can try to remain in the marriage, but if their spouse wants out, there's not much that can be done.
If you read my post, you'll see a very clear "I know most single moms are not like that". But I'm fairly sure that those who would use such an outrageous law justifying their snaring of a man as being "for the children" belong to the type I'm talking about. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:04:04 PM | And I stand by my argument that once you've accepted and begun raising that child as your own, biology is irrelevant; you are a parent to that child.
And here is the most biased, unrealistic, and completely absurd line of b.s. I've seen posted in a long time. You are equaling "living together in the same house" with "being a parent to that child".
How do you prove that a man has accepted a child as his own? How do you know if the guy isn't simply tolerating the kid for the mother's sake? How do you know if he sees the child as a son, or simply as "his wife's child"?
What do you call "raising a child"? Helping with his schoolwork? I've done that to my nephews. Giving money/advice/help? I've done that to my neighbor's child. Taking him to a footy match? I've taken my kid and a couple of his schoolmates (one of them from a single mom) to the footy. The kid next door spends a lot of time at my house because my son has a lot of toys he doesn't have. His mom thanked me once because I'm a male role model for him. Does it mean I'm raising him? Am I now responsible of supporting him?
The only -THE ONLY- way to prove inequivocally that he has "accepted the child as his own" is via legal adoption. And the law already says that an adopted child has the same rights as a blood child, including CS.
What you are doing is ASSuming that only because the man and the mom share the same bed, it automatically means that the guy is a stepfather. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:04:08 PM | Malibu Steve:
What do you suggest is done to stop abusing he system. Yu say that if you act as a parent to a child then you are a parent...okay fine but let's say your ex gets married again and then divorced and marries someone else and gets divorced. I am not sure about the child support laws in your state...but where does all of this stop? What about the visitation schedule? If a child has multiple ex step parents how does that work? Could it cut into the visitation schedule of the biological non custodial parent? There are a lot of things to consider here. Some people only look at the money and there are more issues than just money. As I stated already how is visitation schedules divided up? It can be turned into a nightmare for the child and ex step parents. | |
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