| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 2:02:55 AM | Exactly how "paying for a child that is not yours" is complex?
^^rock hunter...6 months.....I would agree that any child would not have a significant bond to merrit child support or visitation....but how about 10 years? That is when I would hope a person's moral compass would prevail in any child support conflicts.
And exactly how do you know a potential date has such moral compass? Is it tatooed on her forehead? Sorry my friend but nobody can see into another person's heart...rc
^^^rock....it takes some effort to see what is in someonelses heart....but just takes a big brush to paint every single mom's forehead that says "golddigger"
I think if you date a person long enough, their intentions become clear....in my experience...slow and steady wins the race. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:07:46 AM | you miss the point lizabeth. Inorder to date the single moms and find one with the moral compass you describe, to steal rock's analogy you would have to stroll around in the dangerous neighbourhood at night for sometime...... which just increases your chances of getting mugged.
In my mind (and mentionned in other threads this law was designed just for such cases as the 10-15 year relationship) I can see SOME justification after such a legth of time. But the reality is some may never bond with the child and the guy could be just putting up with/ignoring until the stress gets to the point he leaves........ see what happens when you try to make it more "complex"? Support for step-children should be voluntary, and as mentionned in a different thread also, your morals on this issue may have zero bearring on whether a guy gets stung for supporting your and some other guys kids....... all it takes is for you to fall on hard times and apply for social assistance....... they aren't at all shy about subsidizing what they pay you out of anyones wallet on the weakest claim. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:36:22 AM |
I would agree that any child would not have a significant bond to merrit child support or visitation....but how about 10 years? That is when I would hope a person's moral compass would prevail in any child support conflicts.
"Hope" for moral compass is one thing. If he loves the child and chooses to support him after the divorce/breakup, it's ok. Nobody is arguing against that. The argument is against the State-enforced, mandatory child support for a child that is not yours. State shouldn't legislate moral compass, nor punish those who have a different morals.
it takes some effort to see what is in someonelses heart....but just takes a big brush to paint every single mom's forehead that says "golddigger"
I think if you date a person long enough, their intentions become clear ..
If you date a person long enough, that "loco parentis" thing may kick in before the "intentions become clear" stage. Would I be painting all single mums with the same brush? Well, yes. So what? It may be unfair to them, but it's a lot -A LOT- more unfair to indenture a man for the next 18 years only because he fell for a single mom. If you're not concerned about fairness for him, I can't see why I should be concerned about fairness for her.
in my experience...slow and steady wins the race.
Your experience is valid, as valid as the experience of those screwed up by the loco parentis law. Why should I take your experience and not theirs? Besides, if I take your experience and I'm wrong, I'm toast. If I take their experience and I'm wrong, there are no consequences. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 5:35:55 AM | Sorry for my absence from this thread. There have been some interesting and thought-provoking points brought up, and I want to take the time to properly think about them before responding. (Plus, I've been incredibly busy in my off-line life lately.)
I did want to respond to one comment though.
Anyway, would you be pissed off with a person who doesn't go to a bad neighborhood because he or she is afraid of being mugged and ignores all the honest people who may live there, or would you be pissed off with the muggers and gangbangers who give that neighborhood a bad reputation?
In my experience (and I fully recognize that I have had limited experiences), most people who are afraid of a "bad neighborhood" are basisng this fear on anecdotal evidence and not actual scientific reasoning. I've travelled in several "bad neighborhoods" at all hours of the day, and never once encountered anything more serious than my own personal irrational fears.
I don't get angry with people who avoid "bad neighborhoods", but I do often shake my head at their reasoning. While I do acknowledge that there are many bad parts of many towns that are pretty dangerous, in my experience, it's more common to encounter people who needlessly fear stereotypes and isolated incidents. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:38:38 AM |
In my experience (and I fully recognize that I have had limited experiences), most people who are afraid of a "bad neighborhood" are basisng this fear on anecdotal evidence and not actual scientific reasoning.
What's the difference if a mugger caves in your skull "anecdotally", or "scientifically"?
Arlo  | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:01:53 AM | In my experience (and I fully recognize that I have had limited experiences), most people who are afraid of a "bad neighborhood" are basisng this fear on anecdotal evidence and not actual scientific reasoning.
Isn't your own experience also "anecdotical" instead of "scientific reasoning"?
In the same way, aren't all those "I wouldn't do it" and "my friend/brother/ex dated a single mom and isn't paying her CS" also anecdotical evidence?
I don't see why should we consider only positive anecdotes as valid.
I don't get angry with people who avoid "bad neighborhoods", but I do often shake my head at their reasoning.
Frankly, who cares if somebody "shakes his head"? No offense intended, just curious. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 8:37:01 AM | Malibu Steve:
With all due respect I must ask you and other posters this question:
How do you deal with visitation schedules when a child has multiple step parents? Let's say they have a biological father with visitation and mom has married and divorce 2 times since she and dad divorced so the child also has 2 ex step fathers wanting visitation as well. So this is 3 people the child has to see. What if schedules conflict? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:07:58 AM | | Well i have a 7 month old daughter, i am on social assitance until she is a year old, in which i am going to school. Now social services said that if i move in with my boyfriend (who is not my childs father) then i get no more financial help from them. Which i live out in the country about 40 mins from town and i dont drive, in order for me to go to school, i need to live in town. Which i could not possibly afford a place of my own, even if i worked a full time job, cause well rent now is... WOW..So they are giving me a choice of either stay living out in the country with family and not better myself for my daughters sake, or move into town with my boyfriend and get cut off completely of social assistance, and have him support us, while i am in school. Now honestly i dont think it is my boyfriends responsiblity yes he accepts the fact i have a daughter he welcomed her with open arms. And her father hasnt worked a job for almost a year, he is more concerened about "doing up" his car then to pay child support. My boyfriend said he would support me because he thinks a child should be with their mother for atleast the first 2 years of their life. Honestly i dont think it is the step parents responsiblity, BUT if they choose to then that is their decision. But i am not in favour of is parents and the step parents divorce that the step parent has no interaction with the child especially if they were there for most of their lives. Always having different "dads" really screws up a child. If the step parent is a great role model and is willing to be their parent then for crying out loud let them. The child obviously means alot to them, and the step parent means alot to the child aswell.. Serisouly are people trying to screw up their children. My brother married a woman that has 4 kids, one is his own. Now all those kids call my brother dad, and every guy she has married dad, and there is a total of 3, so now they call 3 guys dad. That morn likely will mess up a child! | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:04:18 PM | CkelseaBaby you are about to do something very normal..you found another man who wants to have a relationship with you and is willing to have you and your child live with him ..so you get cut off welfare and from now on he is responsible for you and your child ..even if you don't want him to be ..this isn't fair or right forcing this man to be responsible now is it .?? just read all the postings from people who have family collections after them now for doing what you are about to do ...its wrong forcing him to instantly be responsible and forever after be responsible ..and everyone agrees ..when they came up with this one they were looking for ways to save what they spent on single moms on welfare ..so they went after the boyfriends ...
stay on welfare and move in with him and go to school ..this system is screwed .just picture yourself getting the money instead of some women working for collections going after your boyfriend after living a short time with him .....good luck | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:06:44 PM | Well Chelsea, good for you. I sincerely hope you can better yourself and the lives of yourself and you child. And this is the exact sort of situation many of us have in mind.
I'd consider checking out if it is possible to "break-up" with this guy but remain friends and when school starts "room-mates", as to whether that helps with you having the finances to get through school and if it offers him any protection at all. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:54:23 PM |
1) in order for the mother of the child to get the support from a step parent she can not be getting support from the bio father.
Wrong.
2) in order for the step parent to have to pay support they have to be married and go through a divorce, as that child is not legaly their's until the couple is married.
Wrong.
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:56:46 PM | Hey John--I just had a thought. What happens to you if your gf's 'over 18' son has a baby that ends up in the custody of your gf? And if she is legal guardian, and you are living with her....wouldn't you end up paying support on this grandchild that's not yours?
Maybe you better broaden your paranoia? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 5:45:30 PM |
this isn't fair or right forcing this man to be responsible now is it .??
Now im not forcing him, he said i could move in, so i can go to school. Its not like im like here sweetheart im moving in and you have nothing to say about it. And im not forcing him to be responsible, he wants me to move in, not me forcing myself to move in. Now ok i only get 430 a month from social assistance, even for jsut a room to rent anywheres they are asking more then 400 a month. So even if i had broken up with my boyfriend and moved somewheres else, i would be struggling just to make it.
stay on welfare and move in with him and go to school
Now with this, staying on social assitance and move in with my boyfriend, now im not sure you are aware but you have to tell them were you move and whom you move with. What the address is, you screw them over they turn you around and do you doggie style! If i move in at all with him they cut me off, so how could i possibly go to school if i live 40 mins outta town and i do not drive. And really the only possibly way i could go to school is by moving, now even if i got subsidized housing, which they would only give 550 a month for rent, then plus 330 a month for my food and everything for my daughter. That is what the 430 is for, but that will get cut down if i moved out and was accepted for subsidized housing. Which it can take a couple years to be approved. 550+330=880, now once again, even if i rented a room, that is still not much, most even basement suites around here are atleast 600 a month, then plus like half the bills.
Now i have told my boyfriend that i dont want his financial help, i will try on my own. He is a really great guy and wants to help me. There is no crime in a boyfriend wanting to help his girlfriend, it is not right to condem the girlfriend. The boyfriend is a big boy, they can make their own decisions. So because i am a single mother, well techincally a single mother because i am not with my daughters father, i should stay living at home with my family, not better myself and not be in relationships because im "forcing" the guy to pay for my daughter and I. Jsut because i have a daughter, im "forcing" him to responsible for us. And if i didnt have a daughter it would be completely different, now that is alot of blame to put on and infant now dont you think! | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 5:51:51 PM |
even for jsut a room to rent anywheres they are asking more then 400 a month. So even if i had broken up with my boyfriend and moved somewheres else, i would be struggling just to make it.
A blonde moment? The quotes were there for a reason...... your boyfriend would be your new "room-mate".
Oh and I seriously doubt anyone anywhere has ever placed the blame on an infant in these threads...... | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:07:30 AM | loonytunz>>>you miss the point lizabeth. Inorder to date the single moms and find one with the moral compass you describe, to steal rock's analogy you would have to stroll around in the dangerous neighbourhood at night for sometime...... which just increases your chances of getting mugged.
LT^^^you carry a big brush with red paint on it by making the above statement.
The only time there can be an increased chance of being mugged..per you analogy..is when a person places themselves in an unstable situation of their own choice.
I am really torn regarding this issue. I do believe that at some point when you choose to live with a woman/ man who has children..then a commitment to the children should be there both emotionally and finacially.
Having said that, I don't think it is morally right for anyone to demand child support for kids when a short term relationship (say 5 years or less) breaks down, especially when the relationship towards the step kids becomes non-existent.
LT, I haven't missed the point at all....My children feel the impact from this particular law daily. I only take issue with being lumped into the same catagory of the few bad apples that take advantage of this law and the loopholes.
As far as I am concerned, the comments that have been made about dismissing a single parent with children as a liability, tells me that some single people are more interested in perpetuating the stigma of single parents than they are in making an effort to get to know them. As I said in a previous post...slow and steady wins the race...so why are so many people racing into live-in relationships when there are kids involved? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:58:07 AM | It isn't MORALLY right to DEMAND anyone other than the father of the kids help you raise them. Period. That said, there are plenty of times where a guy might actually start to see kids as part of "his own" having spent enough time around them to have a larger impact on their lives that he may WANT to help. But that SHOULD be at his discretion. Not yours (drain a guys account for having the audacity to leave you ..... revenge, that teaches children so well) or the courts.
Having said that, I don't think it is morally right for anyone to demand child support for kids when a short term relationship (say 5 years or less) breaks down, especially when the relationship towards the step kids becomes non-existent.
Really? Okay I know around here visitation and support are completely separate issues in the eyes of the courts. But the lack of involvement seems to be a pretty clear indicator that the guy never did view hmself as a father or deeply bond with YOUR kids....... and you still want access to his wallet? Get real.
LT, I haven't missed the point at all....My children feel the impact from this particular law daily. I only take issue with being lumped into the same catagory of the few bad apples that take advantage of this law and the loopholes.
Well from your sense of entitlement shown above that...... I'd suggest that maybe this apple is a bit bruised if not rotten.
As far as I am concerned, the comments that have been made about dismissing a single parent with children as a liability, tells me that some single people are more interested in perpetuating the stigma of single parents than they are in making an effort to get to know them. As I said in a previous post...slow and steady wins the race...so why are so many people racing into live-in relationships when there are kids involved?
While the issue isn't as appearant among older daters (less chance of dating without children involved over all so some must "settle") it is qiuite clear that because of laws and attitudes such as this that single parents are at a disadvantage in dating. Maybe I wouldn't want slow and steady and time to get attatched to children to find later we are incompatible, you need not agrre since that can be MY choice, just as having kids was your choice. I'm not here blaming you for your choice, not a fan of people whining about their own choices though or insisting everyone should change to suit them. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:51:40 AM | Lizbeth raises some good points about people rushing into live in relationships where chilren are involved. I would also agree "slow and steady" is the way to proceed when dating someone with children (or if you have children.)
The problem comes when one party knows that in order to "win over" the other person they should take things slow and sometimes hide their true motives for wanting a relationship until it s too late. Yes mpst peole will show their true colours over time, but some will hide them until it is too late and then they have someone else paying child support for "their" children.
I was out last night with a lady I met on this site. We were discussing some of the forums on this site and she said until she read threads on paying child support for step children she had no idea it was even possible to collect child support from a step parent. (She went on to say that she now will not date single father's) Not everyone knows all of the laws and court rulings. Some people want you to think with emotion and not your brain where this type of thing is concerned.
I wish we could go back to the days when relationships were about love, caring about the other person and wanting to make a relationship work. Today we have to worry if the other person has alterior motives!!!! | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:55:42 AM | | Also where do we draw the line? How many people should pay for a child that they did not create or adopt? With how you describe your utopia Malibu Steve it can lend itself to the mess we have in Canada multiple people paying for one child. Where does it stop? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:15:03 AM |
Johne: I was out last night with a lady I met on this site.
Johne, you've got a real keeper in that girlfriend of yours... she is widowed, so no ex- drama; she's only got a son over 18, so no loco parentis issues; and she doesn't mind that you're still dating off POF. Don't let her get away, man. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:22:35 AM | john,
I haven't responded to a lot of the points because I'm still processing them, but as far as my utopia, that's easy.
In my utopia, this wouldn't be an issue. In my utopia, concepts like divorce, separation, abuse, adultery, death of a spouse (for any reason other than old age), death of a child, war, poverty, famine, disease, etc. would not exist. Everybody would live together peacefully, respect each other, and find civil ways to settle disputes. Bad things simply wouldn't happen.
Unfortunately, the world we live in will never approach this concept, but it's a pleasant idea (for me at least). | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:33:57 AM |
Pssst... Simmah... I don't think he's actually got a girlfriend. Just sayin'. ;)
lol Well if he does, she sure doesn't see him 6 nights a week like his higness desires. I wonder how that's working out. And since he's such a child lover, I also wonder how she feels about bearing his fruit when she already has a child 'over 18'. I know my boys are 11 and 12, and while I can't have anymore, the thought of diapers and midnight feedings at this point in my life is a little scary. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:39:24 AM |
I'm still looking for an answer to the question I asked a few posts ago......Grandad
I'll respond to your scenario for him. If that issue came up he is free to leave before he can be declared in loco parentis..... of course then we'd have another poster in here berating men for looking out for their own interests instead of taking responsibility for someone elses choices. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:43:07 AM | | It was more of a personal question for him than one of legalities. He says he feels free and clear of any loco parentis laws because the woman he's dating has a child over 18. I just wondered if he thought about the possibility of this other thing happening. I don't really have much to say about loco parentis, because it's not a law here and I'm sure it never will be. I don't really think it's fair, but I don't know anyone who's lived through it either so I can't say either way. | |
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