| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:50:06 AM | | As I stated he has an "out" under that law here just as he would if she were still fertile herself and had a liason with another and he found out soon enough that the child ws not his. DNA testsing in deliver-rooms anyone? The way it is going if a guy wants to cover all his bases that might be the next step. Sickenning that the feminazi's of old have had this impact and created environments where men and women are more reluctant to trust eachother or even treat eachother fairly. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:00:04 AM | | I have an idea..Why don't you people that are affected by this stupid Candian CS law go write to your goverment officials, hold protests, sign petitions and try to get something changed....just a thought. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:06:56 AM | | It would need the support of the single parents to gain any serious consideration. Being the peole responsible for looking after the best interest of the children...... yet I see I am the only one with the parts to call lizabeth on her entitlement to every guys wallet that she dates if she has kids with someone else previously. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:09:43 AM | quirkyfishy, you mean DO SOMETHING, instead of just whining for all eternity? What a radical "feminazi" thought.
(BTW, loonytunz, you obviously don't know the famous internet debate rule: The person who alludes to Nazi Germany or Hitler automatically loses.) | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:11:35 AM | BTW, loonytunz, you obviously don't know the famous internet debate rule: The person who alludes to Nazi Germany or Hitler automatically loses.)
Yes, I hate that term too, and anytime I see it used I automatically discount the post. It makes me feel like the person using it has issues with bitterness. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:46:24 PM | I have an idea..Why don't you people that are affected by this stupid Canadian CS law go write to your government officials, hold protests, sign petitions and try to get something changed....just a thought.
protesters are generally unemployed students or women.yes there are many women who are supported in some way and have a short ,,if any work week .they are available to protest and the womens groups sure have in the past....there are not many men who pay support that can afford taking time off work to protest ..many men can and do lobby the government by email ..and its becoming a very talked about issue on many forums that a politician wanting a vote will read .. this forum will show up on google..when the government came up with this law the average family was a 2 parent family and the poor men who got caught with this new support were few..but now we are seeing the family brake up more then 50% of the time so the numbers are a lot more ....and now large enough to start demanding some long needed changes with our family law here ..we all know people who get caught with this and its common knowledge that family collections will take after all the men who have relationships with a women with children..but its very wrong and it has turned a lot of men against our court system and our government ..it had to take destroying the family to get the numbers of people speaking out large enough for the government to listen .. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:38:38 PM | Okay if my current girlfriend's daughter (actually she may be my ex gf soon) were to have a child and somehow my girlfriend were to get custody At this point I would just leave...if we were married okay then I would stay but to make something clear here:
I have written letters to politicians, sent e-mails, signed petitions and the reeponse from government is to basically respond with what the law is and saying once someone has established a parental role then they are a parent. Okay fine but do you see how early in the dating process this can be a turn off? Governments would change this as others have said if enough single parents support change. The problem when any politicians bring up modifying this legislation lobby groups for women and parents cry and complain about it until the politicians keep quiet. If singl parents were to want change we would see change but accorring to the lobby groups they do not want change, so we see nothing done to even modify this. Unfortunately the only other way to protest this is not to date single parents. Many single parents are great people and deserve a relationship but can you blame a single person for hesitating before getting seriously involved in a romance with a single parent? For all of you parents reading this let's say you have one or two children and you met someone with 4 or 5 children. If you knew you might have to pay child support for those step children would you not consider the long term ramifications of such a LTR and what it might do to the standard of living to you and your biological children? If you did meet someomne with four kids and you have 2 yourself you would in effect end up paying child suport for 2 ex step children in the event of marriage and divorce or common-law relationship break up. What does that do to your current children's stanbdard of living and your plans fto help oay for the university tution, save for your own retirement and other future plans that you have.
I have posted this before but it applies here too:
I have a friend who was a single father with custody of 5 children. He met a lady who had 4 children. They have 3 children together and are married. They say this marriage hads to work as they could not afford the child support for a break up. They bith admit that if they worked on past marriages they may have worked.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with dating and relationships today. In general people do not work on marriages like they used to. (Not everyone as some people do honestly try to make a relationship work) this new age thinking and laws such as having ex step parents pay child support is causing some single parents with custody to be gold digger and using an almost "pyramid" (spelling) scheme that has been legalized to support themselves and their children.
I have heard a few single parents at work talk to others and get upset that the ex step parent wants visitation saying it is too hard on the children to be bounced from home to home every weekend. (The child goes from custodial parent to non custodial biological parent one weekend and then is back with custodial parent during the week and then to ex step parent #1 the next weekend and now ex step parent#2 wants visitation and the parent was complaining all of this was hard on the child.
That is part of the problem where do we draw the line here folks?
The government also does not really want to change this as it saves them money on welfare payments as they make the "parental figures" pay first when a single parent has to apply for welfare and they force the parent to sing over he rights for welfare to go after the parental figures and if they do not they do not get a welfare cheque. That is also part of the problem...even if single parent does not want the ex to paay sometimes they have no choice the government forces them to accept the child support.
Until such situations are sorted out and made more clear and fair it will cause many to really reflect on if they want a serious romance with someone where children are involved.
I think it is sad that it has come to this.
If you care abut the child sure you can still be in the child's life and if you want to pay child support great, what if the child hates you? What if the child's parent is being a gold digger. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 12:50:33 AM |
Many single parents are great people and deserve a relationship but can you blame a single person for hesitating before getting seriously involved in a romance with a single parent?
John,
I think we may have found a shred of common ground on this issue from which we (hopefully) can build. I'm glad we agree that many single parents are great people. I can agree that it makes sense for a single person to hesitate before getting seriously involved with a single parent. Hopefully you can agree that there is a significant difference between hesitating (and possibly deciding against it) and rejecting the very idea on principle. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 4:24:36 AM |
Okay if my current girlfriend's daughter (actually she may be my ex gf soon) were to have a child and somehow my girlfriend were to get custody At this point I would just leave
On paper you have that option. In black and white, that sounds like the perfect way to handle it to avoid paying support on a child/grandchild that is not yours.
But life is not lived on paper and it is not black and white. What if, you were living together (perhaps because the gf was skittish about marriage) and you actually loved your girlfriend? Would it still be your choice to walk away from someone you loved just in case you may or may not end the relationship someday and you'd be stuck paying for that child? Would that not be against your ideal of making relationships work? It's all well and good to have an opinion and to be against something you think is wrong. But you have to take into account other factors....like feelings and human emotions..... | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:12:15 AM |
Would that not be against your ideal of making relationships work?
Or to further complicate things, (and to take the what-if game to the next level), what if they were married and had a kid together before step-grandbaby came into the picture. Wouldn't that just be the ultimate dilemma? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:41:50 AM | I have one child whose father, nor any man, has ever paid any child support for. I have never asked for anyone to raise my son. I will, do, and since he was 7 months old, have accepted full responsibility of him.
Would the IRS still allow him to claim these children on his taxes? To qualify for the EIC? How about for CTC? or The CSC? Shouldn't the IRS still allow them to claim the children on his taxes if he (as with bio dads) pays child support? Recently there was a law passed that allows a parent that is current on their child support to claim $500. of this support to the IRS... but what about the others that i've just mentioned... and some dad's actually pay more than $500./month... and there are stipulations to claiming the $500. CS tax credit.... such as, it MUST be made through a child support collections agency, must be current, and must be the BIOLOGICAL or ADOPTIVE parent... | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:01:43 AM | If I had a biological or adoptive child I would not leave the marriage. With my current girlfriend I do not have to worry about such a situation though. She can't have anymore children. A atep grand child? If we were married I stay just dating I am gone.
Back on topic though....Why don't single parents fight to get loco parentis modified in some way?
Having step parents pay child support creates gold diggers.
You parents did not answer my question:
If you had 2 children and met someome with custody of 4 children and if you knew you would have to pay child suport for 2 ex step children if the marriage comon-law relationship failed. (Where I live you are considered common-law and married if you live in a common-law relationship for just 6 months) would you not look at what it might do to your children's standard of living your plans to pay for thier university tuition and your retirement? To throw another "monkey wrench" into this in Canada you also must pay child support for children (and ex step children) until they finish college or university and you must pay part of their tuition fees as well. With all of that on the table what would you parents do? I anxiously wait your answers.
The other issue 2nd and 3rd marriages in Canada have a 60% rate of divorce....something else to consider, the odds are not in your favour. The odds of paying for ex step children are. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:56:36 PM | | If i ever had to pay child support for my X step kids, I would shoot myself !!!! I don't know about everyone elses situation, but being a step parent is one of the hardest, non rewarding jobs I ever took on. You raise them as your own and when you get divorced they walk right by you as if you never existed (LITERALLY) | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:36:37 PM | I think that this is an insane idea, personally.
I am not overly informed of the terms of the law, however, it seems that it would be more logical to lay down a boundary such as adoption as a determining factor; if you are simply married, then it would not apply, but if the step-parent takes on the adoption process, then the child is considered his or hers and he or she should be entitled to all parental rights (including custody/visitation) and would be responsible for child support. This would draw a line that would prevent step-parents from being taken advantage of. There is so much opportunity for abuse with such a law that does not allow for exclusions pertaining to abuse. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/12/2008 3:49:22 AM | It would need the support of the single parents to gain any serious consideration. Being the peole responsible for looking after the best interest of the children...... yet I see I am the only one with the parts to call lizabeth on her entitlement to every guys wallet that she dates if she has kids with someone else previously.
^^^Ohh LT...why is it sometimes we are all so quick to judge? I have managed to raise my kids for the last 8 years without alot of help from their dad or anyone else...
I have also managed to seperate the issues of child support and the time and access my ex husband has with my kids.
In the last two years...I have managed to keep up with the expenses for MY kids...since their dad has had to pay twice the child support to his ex girlfriend of 4 years....and has been contributing less and less to his own bio children....as I said...there are some people who have the need to exact revenge and devastae their ex after a bad break-up.
I will direct and forward your comments to me, to the woman who has that feeling of self-entitlement you mentioned in your post.
So, I would join you in supporting some ammendments to this particular law.
My children have had the devasting experience of watching their Dad loose everything.
This law was initially created to protect the kids who had significant bonds and relationships with a step parent. It is the loopholes regarding the laws of "co-habitation" that need to be changed. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:52:49 AM | Very well said Lizbeth.
A general post:
Parents care to answer the questions I posed in my previous post? Or would you prefer not to answer it because you would have to admit paying child support for someone else's children do not appeal to you? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:01:17 AM | john,
to answer the questions in your most recent post:
1) As I single parent, I don't fight to get the laws modified because the laws you discuss are in Canada, and I'm in California.
2) I might consider the financial impact of what could happen if the relationship fell apart, but I'd worry about that before moving in, not before dating.
3) With all of that on the table, I'd make sure I was willing to make a lifelong commitment before making that level of commitment. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:09:50 AM |
To throw another "monkey wrench" into this in Canada you also must pay child support for children (and ex step children) until they finish college or university and you must pay part of their tuition fees as well. With all of that on the table what would you parents do?
What you're forgetting as you go on your little war of words and what if's, is that it's not always so cut and dry.
I collect child support from 2 men. My ex husband pays child support for the oldest 2. My 'just ex' pays child support for the others (HIS biological children) NEITHER of them are required to pay past 18 OR any tuition fees.
Guess what? I lived with the 'just ex' for almost 5 yrs. When we split up, I went on assistance. NOT ONCE did they mention a word about taking ex#2 to court for child support for the oldest 2.
It all depends on the worker (if the ex goes on assistance), the lawyers, the judge involved... You know, all those 'what if's'...
Life is full of what if's and I'm not going to live in fear of them. If I met a man who I wanted to spend my life with, his children bonded with me, I bonded with them, he treated my children well, and I his, and all the other things that go with blended families, then that's just a chance I would take.
I don't really care if you don't want to risk it. I don't really care about others who don't want to risk it. It's YOUR choice!
And it's not as hard for a single mom to date as you seem to think Johne.. I believe it has more to do with the person than whether or not someone calls her mom... | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/12/2008 11:14:01 AM |
It all depends on the worker (if the ex goes on assistance), the lawyers, the judge involved... You know, all those 'what if's'...
Even one "what if" is too much. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:28:55 AM | Malibu Steve:
Thank you for you reply...I hope Simmah and a few others respond.
The thing is having step parents pay child support for step children can create a whole new set of problems we have to solve such as visitation.
Where do we draw the line? What if the child has multiple step parents? Again as of now there are some loop holes that can be used by a gold digger.
How do we deal with visitation issues? | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:14:18 PM | First of all it's a non-issue for me because I don't live in Canada. And I can't find one person to marry, let alone mulitples. ha ha.
Secondly, dating is for getting to know someone. To put it simply, date for at least 2 years, don't live together before marriage, and all should be well.
As far as I'm concerned, I doubt I'd try to get an ex step dad to pay anything for my kids. If they wanted to throw some $$ my way for sports or whatever, fine. And if they wanted to maintain a relationship with my kids after ours was broken up, fine. But hell, their own dad doesn't even pay, I can't see myself asking someone else to. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:06:17 PM | SimmahDahnNah:
You bring up a good point. If the biological parent does not pay child support how does it make sense for the step parent to do so?
Under Malibu Steve's suggestion that is something else that needs to be worked out. In Canada we have that worked out...it does not matter if bio parent pays ex step parent still pays!!!! | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:57:01 PM | johne,
I think it is pretty clear to everyone how you feel regarding the "loco parental laws" that are currently in place here in Canada.
I think that most people agree it is a law that has been abused in the last few years.
You have already said you wouldn't date a single parent.....so stop negotiating terms for breaking up with a single parent!
All your comments are only releveant as worse case scenerio's not even you have experienced.
It is pretty obvious that the law in place is ambiguous at best, regarding the scenerio's that have been given on this thread.
I am sure I am not alone in feeling that this law of "loco parental child support" needs to be more defined that will discourage the single parents who abuse it.
There is a loop hole for everything these days...it's too bad some people don't have the moral compass not to use some of those loopholes. | |
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| Child support by step-parents
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:21:27 AM | OK, I've given a lot of thought to this issue, including many of the ideas that have been put forth. I've got a couple of ideas, and while they are not perfect (and I'm sure some people will strongly object to them), they would address the abuses as well as attempting to best care for the children.
One suggested plan that I have would be to simply change the law so that a judge would have the option to award child support from step-parents, and to also award visitation, custody, or whatever else to step-parents. I believe that making a law that says "you are entitled to support from a step-parent" opens the system up to abuses. This allows the judge to examine the situation and determine if, based on the individual situation, support would be appropriate. If the step-parent indeed had been acting as a parent, I see no reason to consider this person a non-parent. My concern with this idea would be that some people might try to distance themselves from their step-children "just in case."
The plan I prefer has to do with the adoption concept. I forget who originally brought it up, but I thought that was a great point. If the step-parent adopts the child, then they should be "on the hook". At that point, they are saying that they are that child's parent. However, I believe that in the current system, a step-parent cannot adopt a child unless the biological parent relinquishes their parental rights. I don't see how this is in the best interest of the child. I think a step-parent should be allowed to petition for adoption regardless of what the other biological parent does. Then, if the relationship goes sour later, the courts could simply look at the adoption status.
And, to answer John's concern about visitation, I believe denying a child access to somebody they view as a parent is far more damaging than bouncing them around on visits. (It's common for kids to go visit grandparents, aunts/uncles, etc. anyway.) I feel that, barring abuse or other damaging situations), a step-parent who has become a parent to the child deserves visitation, and so does the child. As far as the exact details, just as with biological parents, it should be determined based on the specifics of the situation. | |
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