| is it rape if...
Posted: 6/21/2008 7:30:08 AM | | are you totally serious? a swift punch in the adams apple stops any man, big or small.. one question, why did you stay soo long? | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:34:32 AM | No, I dont think this would be classified as rape. Regret possibly but not rape. By going along with it you are consenting. If you really didn't want to have sex with the guy, you should have screamed, fought him, etc.
I am sorry if others dont agree with me, however, rape is such a horrible crime and trying to turn regret into rape is just wrong. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:48:42 AM | | I am a law student and we looked at issues and cases involving similiar facts as the OP presented. In Canada it would be considered assualt. There is a supreme court decision which ruled you cannot consent when you are intoxicated. One of the elements of the offence of assualt is direct or indirect force without consent. So first she was intoxicated so she cannot give legal consent. Secondly when she wasn't intoxicated she made it clear that she did not consent to sex related activity. Even if she were silent in the circumstances and the man went ahead it would be considered assualt as silence does not mean acceptance. Despite what the posters here who obviously aren't versed in legal issues there are grounds for an assluat charge. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/2/2008 7:50:57 PM | I personally think (as a Canadian) that a woman consents to drink, she then should be held responsible for the aftermath. The hangover, the fact she feels like crap. Saying no is rape. But the OP didn't. She accepted drinks from a guy she had no interest in and now is turning it around on him. She must have had some sense of it, since she remembers it.
Assault... ok. Rape, no way. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/2/2008 10:31:36 PM | | I think it's rape. I think that it's extremely unethical to push for sex when a woman is clearly intoxicated. She did try to remove herself from the situation, and he wound up following her to the bathroom. I'm shocked that more people haven't pointed out how scummy the guy is in this thread. Yes, there are ways to avoid situations like this, but there is a more obvious wrong here of this guy preying on her. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:38:36 AM | | If you're posting to POF and asking if it is rape, it probably isn't. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 6:30:13 AM | You said you were leaving, and somehow let him talk you into not leaving. You still had the freedom to leave, unless he had you shackled to your bar stool.
Your statement that you "just went with it" makes this NOT rape. "I regret it" doesn't make it rape, and that's something that so many women don't get.
Maybe you should examine whether or not you should be drinking at all, if it causes you to be irresponsible and to do things (again, of your own free will) that you later regret. Sorry, but you've got no one to blame for this but yourself. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 6:33:49 AM | 'There is a supreme court decision which ruled you cannot consent when you are intoxicated."
What a crock. Does this mean you are unaccountable for anything else you do while intoxicated? "But occifer, I didn't consent to driving the car, it was the alcohol that made me do it!" or "I didn't start the fight, it was Jack Daniels who did it! I was an innocent victim of the alcohol!"
I'd like to see how that would go over in a court of law. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 8:39:47 AM |
She did try to remove herself from the situation
By accepting not one, but several alcoholic drinks that led to her intoxication? | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 8:48:38 AM | Well,
I would consider it date rape. BUT, the issue is where does your responsibility lie? The prosecuting attorney wont take your case. You drank freely and got drunk. You constructively consented. Sorry that happened to you but you have no remedy. The standard for culpability is "beyond a reasonable doubt". You not there or even close.
You may, however, prevail in Circuit Court where the standard of culpability is "a preponderance of the evidence". Think OJ...
ER | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:01:34 AM | | So OP, is it rape when I'm drunk at a bar, and a woman just randomly climbs up onto my lap, asks me what my name is, and asks me to buy her a drink? (She was probably very drunk too, but still, the point remains). | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:12:58 AM | Wow, I just had to post something here ...
OP you should speak to a lawyer about this. Whether you were raped or not is not for all the pseudo-lawyers on here to say.
I AM a lawyer and yes alcohol negates consent. Granted each country has a different legal system and each case is judged on its own merits but whatever happened, if you were indeed the victim of a rape or sexual assault, this is the last place you should get opinions on such a serious matter.
Arguments like " you didn't resist and just went with it" are a typical response of people who have never been in that position.
Do the people who make these arguments also toss in the "you dressed provocatively and were therefore asking for it."?
The responses to this thread are exactly why many rape victims are afraid to come forward. A little sensitivity can go a long way. I would hate for any of you to be a victim of rape or sexual assault and if you ever are (men or women) I hope that people you choose to tell are less judgemental.
Whether she was raped or not is for a court of law to decide. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:33:51 AM | | I think the OP should be charged with prostitution. She accepted drinks ($) knowing the intention of the drinks ($) for sex. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:36:36 AM |
Wow, I just had to post something here ...
OP you should speak to a lawyer about this. Whether you were raped or not is not for all the pseudo-lawyers on here to say.
I AM a lawyer and yes alcohol negates consent. Granted each country has a different legal system and each case is judged on its own merits but whatever happened, if you were indeed the victim of a rape or sexual assault, this is the last place you should get opinions on such a serious matter.
Arguments like " you didn't resist and just went with it" are a typical response of people who have never been in that position.
Do the people who make these arguments also toss in the "you dressed provocatively and were therefore asking for it."?
The responses to this thread are exactly why many rape victims are afraid to come forward. A little sensitivity can go a long way. I would hate for any of you to be a victim of rape or sexual assault and if you ever are (men or women) I hope that people you choose to tell are less judgemental.
Whether she was raped or not is for a court of law to decide.
What if he was drunk too? What then? Furthermore, the legality of 'drinking negates consent' is the most hypocritical legal bull ever constructed in the justice system. It's not even fair.
Maybe I should just get into my vehicle when I'm drunk, and kill your family in an auto-collision. BUT hey, I never GAVE consent to get in the car, I had no control of my actions!
By the laws standards, that doesn't fly. I'd be put in jail for a long time for vehicular manslaughter at the very tamest.
So which is it? If you can't give consent when you're drunk, that implies that you don't have control over your actions; thus legally, you cannot be held responsible for killing people when you're drunk.
that simple. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 10:08:39 AM | i have to chime in...this will probably more then likely get me flamed on and maybe hated....but this is a VERY UNFORTUNATE SITUATION. but that doesnt mean its rape. he bought her and himself drinks....meaning they BOTH were drinking....she didnt actually leave....she went to the "bathroom"....maybe if she wanted to send the proper message she should have went to the "front door and exited the building." but my point is this, they were BOTH drinking together, she didnt scream no stop or dont once he came into the bathroom, by her words she "went with it." meaning that she let it happen. in a court of law if those words are uttered, the accusation of rape becomes null and void. maybe a sexual assault.....but its not rape if she went along willingly. now if there were drugs in the drinks that she was consuming...then it might still be a date rape thing...but if there is no proof of the use of date rape drugs in the drinks she consumed...then its just her having "buyers remorse." Does this make the guy right? Hell no it makes him an Ahole and a first class douschebag and gives nice decent guys like myself a bad name. but then again...on the flipside of the coin...id be willing to bet that if it was a guy being forced to have intercourse with a girl when he was drunk...the courts would just toss that case right out the window. this is why its not good to mix alcohol with hooking up. Ladies, learn a lesson from this....drink with friends who will make sure your taken care of properly, or just dont go out to bars/clubs and drink. Guys, dont be Aholes either, we are ALL RESPONSIBLE for our OWN ACTIONS.
Though i think all this is a moot point because the OP deleted her public profile here...meaning our words wont be reaching her ever.
drinking and driving cases are never thrown out because as long as you are not unconcious when you get in the car, you MAKE A CHOICE to start the car and drive away. so instead make a choice to call a cab or have a DD with you...or even catch a ride with a friend whos not intoxicated. responsibly! | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 10:18:48 AM |
What if he was drunk too? What then? Furthermore, the legality of 'drinking negates consent' is the most hypocritical legal bull ever constructed in the justice system. It's not even fair.
Maybe I should just get into my vehicle when I'm drunk, and kill your family in an auto-collision. BUT hey, I never GAVE consent to get in the car, I had no control of my actions!
By the laws standards, that doesn't fly. I'd be put in jail for a long time for vehicular manslaughter at the very tamest.
So which is it? If you can't give consent when you're drunk, that implies that you don't have control over your actions; thus legally, you cannot be held responsible for killing people when you're drunk.
that simple.
The difference is that it's not illegal for someone to drink and/or get drunk. It is, however a crime to drink and drive.
So, yes if you were to drive drunk and kill someone while doing so, you could and should be prosecuted. You're not the victim. The dead person is. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 10:27:15 AM | Yes. This fits the legal definition of rape, and is prosecutable. If you didn't get a rape kit done in the morning, you'd have a really hard time proving it, but either way, filing a police report would send a strong message that he can't get away with this sort of thing.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Please take care of yourself. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 11:13:15 AM | You were not physically held down and raped, but you were definitely under duress. And you were culpable. also, in that you did not quit drinking and leave. No is always no, though. When you just "went with it" you kind of ruined your case. Though fighting can end in greater physical injury than just rape.
Sherry | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 12:21:34 PM | I would say the case was damaged by implied consent by "giving in"... drunk or otherwise.
It's too bad that while you did give "No" signals that the guy just couldn't find it in himself to be a decent human being and go with that.
BTW, no always means no and like I tell my kids, if you don't get an answer from me then the answer is always no.
Best wishes to you. | |
|
| |
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 1:47:44 PM |
3. Feel very very drunk after one drink, stupidly accept another. Very intoxicated by this point, accept a couple more. Still maintaining that you don't want to have sex with him, and tell him you're leaving after he trys to kiss you a couple of times. Try to change the subject several times.
Getting very very drunk on one drink? Did you drink on an empty stomach? Where you drugged? If you were drugged, you would get very very drunk on one drink. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:09:22 PM | in reverse order.
jonboneheadmo is clearly simple with his drunk driving comparison. It is blindly clear that the issue of giving or not giving consent to another person to commit an act with/to you while you are too drunk to be aware or in control or to effectively withdraw at any time should you wish, is miles away from been in the same category as an @rsehole driving while drunk. The idiot has fallen into the common pitfall in law of comparing apple pie with apple juice. It never works in court, judges and counsel are too experienced and intelligent to allow anyone to do so.
The OP is asking if what someone else did to her while she was too drunk to defend herself is rape, not whether she committed an offence herself because she was drunk. And who the hell do you normally give your consent to anyway to get in your own car and drive yourself. What a cr@p argument.
Moving along. Regret is no cause for action. Its just something you personally feel afterwards.
Your description as others have said too, screams out either date rape drugs or at least a very clever way of mixing drinks to give such an instant inebriating effect. If you felt so drunk after the first drink then it could have been fait accompli after that. It sounds like your resistance was gone and the other drinks were just to make sure. The fact that whilst you were trying to wash your hands he was ripping your top off sounds like assault/rape to me.
Some people are polite. They find it difficult to walk away from someone in situations that others couldn’t comprehend. That makes the perp an even bigger b@stard because he knows he is using your nature to his advantage. He wouldn’t try it on anne widdicombe because she would flatten him with one punch.
The fact you wouldn’t do it when sober is irrelevant in itself, you could say that about lots of things, maybe a parachute jump or flashing out your mates car as you go down the highway.
What is relevant is whether you were able to give your consent after clearly repeatedly withholding it. Without a doubt this perp is guilty morally of raping you, in law it is more difficult, he can claim that you didn’t resist once he kissed you outside the bathroom. It’s a great regret you never had a blood test as soon as possible afterwards, my gut feeling is he used a drug to overcome your resistance.
Get in touch with a rape counselling centre, it matters not that you arent pressing charges, they will help anyway with the emotional side and hopefully courses on how to avoid been manipulated, i.e self assertive classes. Take care. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 5:18:43 PM | | No. It is not rape. You should be slapped by someone who has been raped for trying to blame booze that you accepted, or worse somone else for being "persistant to a fault". Rape is a ****ing huge charge to even imply let alone use to feel better about your own poor choices. Shame on you. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 6:06:00 PM | | It is simple . It is absolutely date rape. If that begins simply do not take any drinks leave immediately if you catch it in time. | |
|
| is it rape if...
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:22:43 PM |
No. It is not rape. You should be slapped by someone who has been raped for trying to blame booze that you accepted, or worse somone else for being "persistant to a fault". Rape is a ****ing huge charge to even imply let alone use to feel better about your own poor choices. Shame on you.
This is what is referred to as "victim blaming".
In the US, it is illegal to have sex with a woman who is too intoxicated to say no, which is clearly what happened here. It fits the legal definition of rape. How you feel about that definition is irrelevant; the fact of the matter is that it's rape, period. Further, it sounds likely that there may have been drugging involved, which compounds the issue.
Yes, rape is a huge charge. It's a huge violation. And it's exactly what happened here. She on you for blaming a victim whose perpetrator clearly committed the legal definition of rape. | |
|
Home
login 
