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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:12:07 PM | I continue to be amazed by some of the rationales put forward re this "case", on the basis of the "data" that we posters have.
A couple of points:
a) Yes we all make mistakes. Mistakes have degrees of severity.
b) Lies are not mistakes per se. At best, they are a distinct type of "mistake"
Thus the rationale that the OP, by virtue of his human ID, is bound to have lied as well in his life and thus should not "be hard" towards "The Lie" is interesting but IMO flawed (syllogistically). Because it equates mistakes and lies.
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From post 297:
"....Not only was it a serious lie and that she kept it up for a ridiculously long time, but she even duped him into a future based on a lie. At 61, she is approaching retirement age 8 years sooner than he is, so the talk about goals, expectations and especially the "work" and life part was just compounding the lie and giving him false promise that would very unlikely unfold in the manner that they discussed. ...."
On the basis of the info available to us posters re the case, I agree, especially on "...so the talk about goals, expectations and especially the "work" and life part was just compounding the lie and giving him false promise that would very unlikely unfold in the manner that they discussed...".
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:16:00 PM | "I made no assumptions about the life span of the woman. My statements are general statements about life expectancy. They apply to everyone. If you don't think older people die more frequently than younger people check the obits. "
Your "general assumptions" are the same as my "general assumptions." We both applied them to individuals referenced in the OP's post. My statements are "general" about human nature - yours about life expectancy. Their is no difference.
Obviously, older people die more frequently than younger people. Just as obviously, men die younger than women. And to take it one further, young men are more likely to die in automotive accidents than any other age group. The point being, we all die. The question is when, and what kind of life precedes it. The OP is entitled to be unforgiving, but he came on here and asked for opinions, and that's what he got. No guarantee you're going to like what you hear. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:18:53 PM | nick:
"Thus the rationale that the OP, by virtue of his human ID, is bound to have lied as well in his life and thus should not "be hard" towards "The Lie" is interesting but IMO flawed (syllogistically). Because it equates mistakes and lies."
Not flawed at all, syllogistically or otherwise. You've missed the point of forgiveness. We forgive a) because we love the person we are forgiving and b) because we know full well we will need forgiveness ourselves one day.
Of course, if you're going to throw the offender to the lions, be prepared to go there yourself. Do unto others and all that. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:07:02 PM | Wow, decent_m!
She wasnt perfect, neither was I, pity we couldnt all be as perfect as you OP for surely you are perfect to make such a strong decision on an issue of an age lie.
You nailed it! Nothing better than an actual experience. Wonder if the OP would have reconsidered had he read your post earlier. But would not have made any difference, I suppose as he just wanted validation for his plan to break the engagement.
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:27:59 PM | What I think is that a 61 year old lady could feel unconfortable due to her "natural" age. This could be a kind of fear facing herself, fear of losing someone like you. It looks like you represent a future for her and that she represents a future for you as well. Therefore, just sit down with her and ask her gently the reason for which she was afraid to tell you her real age. You might be surpized that what i just shared with you might come to pass. As for the other things such as :"We had talked about all kinds of goals, expectations, work life " etc., what did you observe based on your discussions? Did you see the fruit? Were you in a construction mode together or were you the one who was only doing "the talking", fulfilling your own dreams? Love sometimes can make someone becoming blind; one do not see or one does not listen to the other one.
I would suggest that you take her hand and that you two take a long walk in nature. Share with her all what you have in your heart, including your doubts as you need to be reassured. Stand back for a little bit and observe. If you do not see the fruit emerging out of it, perhaps that some deeper thoughts will be necessary; in other terms: do not marry an upcoming divorce. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:54:52 PM | I can tell you why alot of people on line don't want to tell their real age initally because most men and some woman seem to want someone 10 to 20 years younger then them.....mostly men take alook at their age range.
so woman who are in their age group don't even get looked at from the get go....Frankly in my opinion if your not looking to procreate, and are looking for someone for real to spend the rest of your life with then aslong as both your needs are met it doesn't matter in the age group we are concidering. This guy just wanted out and wasn't man enough to step up to if it was true love. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 2:50:30 AM | | A lie is a lie thier is no stages as to the servrity of the lie, a fib is a lie. she should have said something in the first month but no she did not say anything for 18 months, now thier is the servirty of the lie she kept it up for 18 months. now he has a problem with the age and the lie so should he lie to himslef and forgetr it well he cant and thier is nothing wrong wiith the way he feels. Why would some one want to lie to a friend they are no friend in my book. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 3:01:56 AM | I agree that a lie is a lie, there is no doubting that, she lied plain and simple.
I just cant get my head around someone being in love with another so much to marry but not enough to forgive. There is no doubt in my mind that he would have lied about something, we all do.
Some people are acting like she should be tarred and feathered as if they have never ever ever lied about anything in their whole lives.
What it comes down to is the OP couldnt forgive or live with this particular lie and ended his relationship and he is entitled, we all have our deal breakers, I just hope he doesnt have a future of lonely years ahead of him because of his stance on this issue. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 4:16:12 AM | The age would not be an issue, the lie WOULD be. I would would tell her to leave and not let the door hit her on the a$$ on the way out. In my opinion,generally speaking,lying is a habit. I would be surprised if that is the ONLY time she has lied to you. What you need to decide is if you can "forgive AND forget". I really don't think I could forget,but that is something only you can decide.
Best wishes
OFCB | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 4:27:36 AM | OP, just a couple of points that have only indirect relationship to the lie. I'm 29 years married, and there is a 12.5 year age difference. No matter how well kept your lady is nature will likely make the age difference more and more obvious in the next 8 years. I was always the older(more settled, steady, focused) one in our relationship even though my wife was the oldest in years, then at about 64 my wife seamed to hurtle by me at lighting speed, age wise. She "aged" dramatically mentally and physically. Communication on many levels changed (deteriorated) rapidly. Just something to think about. Maybe this only applies to me and my personal circumstances, I'm married for life and I care very deeply for my wife, but it is difficult, very difficult. The age difference is a major factor. I have come on POF to find friends to communicate with, share with to have common interests. To find a friendly compassionate person to communicate with, I have given enormous effort to do the same at home, however it takes more than one to be successful.
I surely can not tell you what is right for you, but if my personal experience gives any insight then maybe it will save pain and discomfort for you and your lady. Best wishes.
Solver | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 4:31:53 AM | re post 303 as it relates to the Opost:
The post puts forward argumentation based on the concept of forgiving. Forgiving is one thing, going on with the plans to marriage and continuing the rel is another. And the OP or anyone else did not suggest throwing anyone to the lions or throwing stones at a person who lies. But a lie is not the same thing as a mistake. Are we eg to forgive a cheating SO AND continue the rel? Do people leave a rel when the other has "cheated" because the "cheating" is in the act of having sex with someone else or in the not telling the SO about it? The infidelity act (mistake) or the lie?
The point, in reference to the OPost topic being, that if she had a fake age on profile but told the OP her real age right off the bat, eg first date or even before, then it would have been a totally different case.
The key issue is that the true age, according to the OPost, was revealed at a much later date (there are other issues as well, but that one is the key, IMO).
So let us not syllogise on a we all make mistakes basis to "defend" the lie or the perpetrator of the lie, because then we open Pandora's box. Most women emphasise honesty in the type of man they seek for a rel, so it is only fair that men should expect the same!!
In post 308, it is argued "....I just cant get my head around someone being in love with another so much to marry but not enough to forgive...."
Because: love and marriage are two different things, a marriage is a contract and it is based primarily on trust, not love.
Those who love, in the romantic sense of love, not the general (love for all human), IMO, need not to get married to "seal" the love into a "contract" before state or God.
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Hence:
And are we to argue, by analogy, that a sexually cheating SO should be forgiven on the basis of the love we have for her (or him)?
Or on the basis that we all err or lie or ar vulnerable to sleep with someone else on a business trip, eg?
Neither, IMO.
Thus I propose that not going on with the marriage or the rel is not inconsistent with the concept of forgiving and love. And that most women put honesty and trust at the top of the agenda for a rel, even more so, Marriage? Are they "lying" when they do that or just saying it but do not mean it? I assume they mean what they write.
Thus:
This (the Opost) merely is a case/example of a man who did the same thing as so many women in POF do: Put trust and honesty at the top of the rel and marriage agenda and acted upon it. Or is one to declare the value of honesty and trust but leave it at that: mere words? I assume not.
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:07:27 AM |
Your "general assumptions" are the same as my "general assumptions." We both applied them to individuals referenced in the OP's post. My statements are "general" about human nature - yours about life expectancy. Their is no difference.
No, you're wrong. It's just an actuarial fact that as we age, the chance of death and illness increases. I don't need to know anything about OP or his ex to make that statement. It applies to everyone. You're making the case that the OP is a jerk and his ex is wonderful based on almost no evidence. You don't know what else she may have misstated, or anything else about their relationship.
The point being, we all die. The question is when, and what kind of life precedes it.
And that is unknowable. No one knows for sure whether they have genes for long life. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:22:46 AM |
OP, just a couple of points that have only indirect relationship to the lie. I'm 29 years married, and there is a 12.5 year age difference. No matter how well kept your lady is nature will likely make the age difference more and more obvious in the next 8 years. I was always the older(more settled, steady, focused) one in our relationship even though my wife was the oldest in years, then at about 64 my wife seamed to hurtle by me at lighting speed, age wise. She "aged" dramatically mentally and physically.
This gentleman has done all a great favor by posting. This is why lying about an age difference of eight years is not a harmless fib, and why a caring partners would want their partners to know everything about them - age, health, financial issues - everything. OP's ex didn't care enough about him to disclose everything she owed him.
And cut the pious 'forgiveness' bit. No one here knows enough about that relationship to decide for the OP whether he should forgive or not. People keep writing - 'have you ever made a mistake? Well, have you ever decided something someone did was unforgivable?
I think a lot of this discussion is coming from women who feel morally justified in lying about their ages. It's lying - if it blows up in your face, don't crybaby about it. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:54:02 AM | My queston is would you be uncomfortable if you found out she was 8 years younger?
I doubt it. If your asking if your shallow, you already know the answer to your own queston. I'd say she lied at the start, found out she really liked you and didn't know how to get out of it. I guess you must tell the truth 100% of the time. In the long run, you either love some one or a number. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:35:39 AM |
On the basis of the info available to us posters re the case, I agree, especially on "...so the talk about goals, expectations and especially the "work" and life part was just compounding the lie and giving him false promise that would very unlikely unfold in the manner that they discussed...". - nickphilosoph
Not neccessarily nickphilosoph, it depends on what she wants & is able to do. In Canada, they no
longer require mandatory retirement at age 65, it was outlawed last year, as a form of age discriminiation.
And if he never realized that she was older, then she may be healthy enough to work beyond that time,
if she wishes to. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:06:28 AM | some woman seem to want someone 10 to 20 years younger then them.....mostly men take alook at their age range...so woman who are in their age group don't even get looked at from the get go Then wouldn't it be better for an older woman to maybe fib at first in order to meet a younger guy who suits her, then somewhere between the first fib, getting engaged, and then six months after that, finally feel like she could relate to the guy her actual age? Her lie is only going to get worse when they go get their blood test for their marriage.
Nobody seems to want to state what other sorts of fibs are acceptable. How about lying about your fidelity? After 18 months and six months of engagement, she tells him she's been lying about her fidelity to him, she has a FWiBbie on the side, but he should forgive her, after all, his love for her hasn't changed, she's still the same woman, right?
Is this forgiveable? A dark-complexioned guy tells a woman he's Italian when he meets her, 18 months later she finds out he's not Italian but Hispanic. Should she forgive him?
Lets say a guy wears lots of nice clothes and seems to be quite solvent. After 18 months and six months of engagement, his fiancee discovers he is $100k in debt due to gambling losses. He's still the same guy, she ought to forgive him, right?
Fact is she lied for 18 months, and his dealbreakers are his business, criticizing what constitutes a dealbreaker is circumventing the issue of lying to one's partner, whether it is a woman lying to a man about her age or fidelity, a guy lying about his ethnicity or solvency, etcetera etcetera etcetera. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:06:30 AM | Re: post 316 as it relates to post 312:
This gentleman has done all a great favor by posting. This is why lying about an age difference of eight years is not a harmless fib, and why a caring partners would want their partners to know everything about them - age, health, financial issues - everything. OP's ex didn't care enough about him to disclose everything she owed him. Interesting! You say this gentleman had done us a favor... Now here's a man that is married.. on a dating site.. looking for "friendship" outside of his commitment. Interesting that you think he's done us a favor. I wonder if he's caring enough to at least let his wife know he's attempting to step out on her by being a member of this Dating site. He states his wife is somewhat "failing" in her vitality (in sickness and in health???) as such, unless they are in an "open" relationship.. I'd say his lie shouldn't be pointed out as "doing us all a favor" Why take one lier's word as gospel, yet propose not to be able to get past one who has lied about age? | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:51:40 AM |
Nobody seems to want to state what other sorts of fibs are acceptable. How about lying about your fidelity? After 18 months and six months of engagement, she tells him she's been lying about her fidelity to him, she has a FWiBbie on the side, but he should forgive her, after all, his love for her hasn't changed, she's still the same woman, right? By lying about her age.. she did not renege on a promise of commitment or to"forsake all others"
Is this forgiveable? A dark-complexioned guy tells a woman he's Italian when he meets her, 18 months later she finds out he's not Italian but Hispanic. Should she forgive him? This is still about "who" the person you fell in love with is. Ethnicisity wouldn't/shouldn't change my love for that person.. just like chronilogical age shouldn't/wouldn't change my love either.
I suspect that if the Op really truly loves(ed) this woman, then he will not be able to get her out of his system quite so easily just because she's 8 years older than what he first thought. Perhaps with distance from her.. he will come to realize this. Perhaps he won't.. cie la vie! | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 12:00:45 PM |
Now here's a man that is married.. on a dating site..
I have no idea what he's doing here (he clearly states he's married) and I don't care, and I have no way of knowing whether his story is true, or if anybody's story online is true. Even is his story isn't true, it wouldn't be hard to find other people in similar circumstances.
You don't like the fact that lying about age matters - well, it does. Be honest or accept the consequences. | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 4:15:24 PM |
You don't like the fact that lying about age matters - well, it does. Be honest or accept the consequences. I've never considered that lying about age or lying about ANYTHING doesn't matter... I contend that if someone has already fallen in love with a person.. THEN their age should'nt matter..
"Be honest".. I have been! | |
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| wat if she lied about age....... do you continue anyway?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:02:40 PM | Hello bikeman and SomeonesX
I posted a thanks and catch you later line when Jan and I engaged, and I never returned to remove the profile or peruse it , nor did I "keep trolling". I loved,,,, love her and would not do that , that is why I entered a committment in marraige!!!!
I am amazed at the response here and mostly my problem is that she lied for so long after the engagement. Also the timeline or chronological age is pretty signifigant in that around 62 or so we show age more. or so I think.
Jan and I have talked this weekend, we have propertyu together, dreams and lots of other things couples do together invested in each other.. so we have lots to talk about. Shallow Dave(that would be me) is coming around to the idea that 8 yrs might be ok.......... the six month deciet is the toug pill to swallow. Thanks all.........hey be honest and take whatever lumps it brings cause the pain associated with this two weeks of hell is not FUN!!!
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