| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/7/2008 7:04:45 PM | To be proud of one's accomplishments whether it is educational or any other, is not boastful. For me, I knew that going to college, getting an education would open more doors in my life. Reality told me "there are no guarantees", but I knew deep down inside, it's what I had to do and what I wanted to do.
When I was born, I had cerebral palsy, and the Doc's told my parents I'd never amount to anything. Back in the 1950's, children were put in asylums if they didn't develop normally. Thank god my parents saw beyond the crap that the Docs told them. Yes, I underwent speech & physical therapy. I endured years of being teased at school because I was "different". When I graduated from Arizona State University in 1978, it was and still is the best damn day in my life!!! You'd better believe I have my diploma at my computer desk. I'm more than proud of myself, and if it sounds boastful, so be it!
Going beyond high school, to learn a trade or to go to college requires discipline. If one wants to accomplish things in life, it requires hard work, sacrifice, and perseverance. That in itself is not boastful. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/7/2008 7:12:56 PM | True, arrogant people are bores.
But I killed myself to get into grad school and my Dad was a professor for many years...education is important to me and I do want to date someone who got through college.
It's basically just an indicator of goals, values in life, similar experiences, etc. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 12:21:58 AM | This isn't really important but I'd like to point out the technicality that medical doctors don't hold a Ph.D (Doctor of Philosophy) they hold an M.D. (Doctor of Medicine).
Don't let them hear you say that :)
The root of "doctor" means to teach. Doctors don't teach, except insofar as any individual with some specialized knowledge teaches through their work. Historically, doctors used to be called physicians. In french, for example, doctor is called a "medicin".
Who we now associate with being a doctor (i.e. physicians) wanted the prestige of the PhD so they adopted their name. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:19:06 AM | Phd's are like diabetes, you either have it or you don't. The way Dr's phrase this is that if you don't have diabetes then obviously you must be "pre-diabetic"
So if we take that view then each of us on this site who don't have a Phd must therefore be "pre-med" students.. "pre" as in we're never, ever going to enroll in medical school.
We could really stretch it by claiming to be "pre med" AND "pre law"....
Do you all feel a bit smarter now? | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:34:14 AM | Quite simple, actually. A woman goes to school for 8-12 years to earn the degree. She worke dhard for it and expects her man to have similar goals and ambitions. What better way than to make sure he's just as capable as she?
On the other hand... a guy goes through the same education and is almost EXPECTED to find his Cinderella and pluck her up out of the ashes and provide the fairy tale. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:43:01 AM | I don't think it's about being condescending. It's about wanting a good connection with someone.
You learn a lot more in college than just the facts written in the books. Critical thinking, logical reasoning, and effective written communication are just some of the skills that I developed through my college studies. I learned still more useful thought processing skills in my graduate program. You also learn how to fit into the social norms of the collegiate community, those who will later go on to make up the professional community in any workplace. That is valuable preparation if you want to have a professional career, even if you could somehow get those jobs without the degree (which is also often impossible).
With what is to come financially, it is going to be increasingly important to have a degree and for your mate to have one also, especially if you intend to raise a family. The "genius drop outs" and "millionnaire-to-be dropouts" are noteworthy exceptions to the rule. Out of hundreds of millions of Americans, only a few handfuls have been such exceptions. That is no future to plan around.
It also matters when socializing to have common ways of looking at the world, analyzing situations, and communicating about ideas. I've definitely dated guys who would literally keep saying, "You're losing me. I don't understand what you just said. Could you say that again?" and stuff like that. I think you can tell from what I've written here that I don't exactly speak with big words. I just have a complex thought process and tend to interelate a number of ideas to make a point that can't be reached with simple 1+1=2 logic. You need to be able to handle quadratic conversation to "keep up with" me.  | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:09:13 AM | OP, I'm sorry -- I got so caught up in watching for the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors in your post that I completely forgot the question! And I have a college degree. Can you believe how absent minded I am?!
O.k. seriously.... First thing, Congratulations!!!!!!! Completing your high school G.E.D. is nothing to be sneezed at -- it's much harder to do as an adult learner than when we are young and impressionable youths (whether we be on or off drugs, delinquent or well-behaved, insane or sane). And, your recent accomplishment holds more than just intrinsic value. You've attached something to your "resume" that will open doors for you for better job opportunities and job training once you're employed, as well as further education if you choose to pursue it.
OP, you are correct in your assertion that intelligence and education are not equivalent. But, it's "smart" to stay in school or to return to school. It's an investment in yourself and your future potential, not only because it increases your chances of providing a greater income for yourself and your future family unit, but also because it nurtures your ability to think and reason and to develop a life-time love affair with learning.
As far as the issue you presented, I have to weigh in with Kayliecat on this (and others have made excellent posts as well). Snooty is always bad in my book, but I don' think many who list their educational accomplishments are being snooty, per say. Don't take rejection too personally, either. People just know what they want, and you have to give them room to go after it.
For me personally, I don't immediately compare educational notes with someone who I'm considering dating. I get to know someone and learn whether he's a good conversationalist, whether he's articulate and well-read and interested in the larger world around him, and whether he has a clear vision and goals for his life. Believe me, in the past I've found men with a lot of degrees who were none of those things, and many without any degree who possessed all of those great qualities AND were successful financially and otherwise.
By the way, I strongly encourage you to now take a few classes at the local community college in a subject or vocation/art that you enjoy. You'll open yourself to yet another world, as well as a whole new set of people, many of whom will be single. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:30:45 AM |
It also matters when socializing to have common ways of looking at the world, analyzing situations, and communicating about ideas. I've definitely dated guys who would literally keep saying, "You're losing me. I don't understand what you just said. Could you say that again?" and stuff like that. I think you can tell from what I've written here that I don't exactly speak with big words. I just have a complex thought process and tend to interelate a number of ideas to make a point that can't be reached with simple 1+1=2 logic. You need to be able to handle quadratic conversation to "keep up with" me.
Oooooh, a second degree polynomial. What's that, sophomore level math at a decent high school? We're totally impressed now, you precious dear, you...
The responsibility is on the side of the communicator to make sure the communicatee "gets it" in the way intended. If the latter doesn't, it means the former is merely incompetent. And that's all. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:03:44 AM |
The responsibility is on the side of the communicator to make sure the communicatee "gets it" in the way intended. If the latter doesn't, it means the former is merely incompetent. And that's all.
This is true and it merits being repeated.
The communication barrier between the educated elite and the drooling masses is quasi-acceptable if the subjects at hand are matters of individual specialization: a mechanic may not know about the social habits of the Paiute people; likewise, an anthropologist may not know exactly how a carburetor works. That's fine. Communication isn't really about knowledge though; it's about comprehension . And there's no reason that a mechanic shouldn't understand the meaning or significance of an anthropologist's subject of interest; again, likewise, there's no reason an anthropologist shouldn't be able to understand how a carburetor works, or of what smaller parts it is comprised.
If neither one of those people can make himself understood to the other one, it is unfair to lay the blame on the difference between their individual academic backgrounds. Institutions of so-called "higher learning" are big on students leaving their hallowed halls with the abilities to synthesize and to explain themselves with clarity and precision; if an educated person--a person who has been trained to communicate--can not make himself (or herself) understood, then his or her "complicated thought processes," and a lay person's inability to parse them, are not the problem. The burden of misunderstanding rests squarely upon the educated person's inadequate communication skills.
All of that aside, I'll agree that educated people--at least those educated in a similar field--may have the ability to speak in a kind of sophisticated "short-hand," something that enables them to leave out many expository/explanatory details, and that, yes, certainly an ability to speak in comfortable, familiar terms is a bonus when you're in a relationship.
(My rant is over now.) | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 12:09:05 PM | So LifeofLeisure and Molesworth, are you saying you didn't understand what I posted? Because if you did, then clearly I am communicating clearly enough to be understood by a person of average intelligence (unless you consider yourselves to be above average).
Can you explain to a 10 year old the same things you can explain to a 20 year old or a 30 year old? There are of course some subjects you wouldn't even try to approach with someone who lacks the intellectual development to understand the points you are making, even if they can understand the words you are using. I think it is reasonable to want to be able to speak to a date freely, instead of having to speak as if you're talking to a 10 year old all the time.
Sure, I CAN simplify everything I say to the point that an uneducated person could understand me, but then I would be leaving out all the subtleties of the topic (which is the part that really interests me) and certainly not getting any comments back from the other side that would give me "food for thought" to chew on. That doesn't sound like a very fun conversation to me, nor a very good relationship.
It's not like anyone is evaluating the quality, goodness or value of a person based on their reasoning skills. It is about finding someone whose company you will enjoy. I don't see room for finding fault in either direction. Either you are compatible or not, and I can reasonably understand a PhD feeling compatible with people with similar educational backgrounds. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:36:53 PM | Why is it any more acceptable to regard Ph.Ds as "snooty" than it is to refer to rural blue collar workers as "rednecks"?
Find somebody you're compatible with and live and let live. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 5:32:42 PM | I have been with a couple.....the worse lovers I have ever had Why boasting anyways? Who cares what title they have.....it's not a guarantee of performance!
Boasters of titles have little else to offer, in my personal experience. Did anybody see 'Piano'? True connections do not include titles and status, only arranged connections do. Communication does not only happen at the level of the mind. Bodies speak too. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:12:06 PM | Now, I don't see the problem with someone stating that they have a Ph.D in their profile. It is an accomplishment that they should be proud of. But, OP, I do agree that people shouldn't judge others based on their education...but people do have preferences. I wouldn't care really what level of education you had as long as I could have an intelligent conversation with you.
And I will say this...in a lot of cases you don't have to be a very smart person to get significant titles. My older sister has a Ph.D and TWO Master degrees. And you know what? Hate to say it, but she is one of the least intellectual people I have ever met. She earned those things because she did her homework, attended her classes, and memorized what she needed to know on tests. A lot of people can do that. And she only did it to make sure she didn't have to move out of our parents house.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:30:48 PM | | Someone stating that they have a PH.D doesn't meat that they are arrogant at all. It's just their way of saying that they are hard working, ambitious, intelligent and have a special interest in a particular subject. Don't compare yourself with someone with a PH.D. I think it irritates you because you feel that you're far behind compared to someone with a PH.D. Having a PH.D is a great achievement and not everyone has the will power and dedication to do so. However, it does not mean that someone without a PH.D is not intelligent or an 'idiot'. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:53:10 PM | I know I shouldn't go back and address this, but it bothered me.
So LifeofLeisure and Molesworth, are you saying you didn't understand what I posted? Because if you did, then clearly I am communicating clearly enough to be understood by a person of average intelligence (unless you consider yourselves to be above average).
If this wasn't intended as condescension, then I don't think it's an example of clear communication.
Can you explain to a 10 year old the same things you can explain to a 20 year old or a 30 year old? There are of course some subjects you wouldn't even try to approach with someone who lacks the intellectual development to understand the points you are making, even if they can understand the words you are using.
I see your point, but implicitly comparing the intellectual divide between a 10 year old and a 30 year old to the divide between "educated" and "uneducated" people is a contentious, and, I think, insulting thing to do.
Sure, I CAN simplify everything I say to the point that an uneducated person could understand me...
This is arrogant. I don't care how intelligent you are. You may not be arrogant, but that statement is.
Either you are compatible or not, and I can reasonably understand a PhD feeling compatible with people with similar educational backgrounds.
I made this point in both of my previous contributions to this thread. The fact that you stated this in a post that was somewhat defensive makes me wonder if you even bothered to thoroughly read what you were defending yourself against. I resign myself to my unfortunate lack of education, which speaks to my sub-par communication skills and may have made my previous comments incomprehensible to the more intellectual among us.
The attitude in the quoted segments included here is, to me, just the sort of thing some of us less-educated people fear and resent in well-educated people. It has nothing to do with their intelligence, ambition, or dedication--all laudable things--but some feel the need to draw a line in the sand between themselves and the knuckle-draggers. I don't care if that applies to the people you date, but it oughtn't apply to the way you address people in general. | |
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K-lo
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Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 41 | |
| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:16:24 PM | Molesworth - I rather liked your original post. I thought that it may have been the best post to have an impact on the OP - because you have a very open-minded viewpoint and a good grasp of the differences, the perceived differences, and that neither person is better or worse - just . . . different. Something can be gained by both.
And I particularly appreciated this statement:
I can further sympathize because, fascinatingly enough, I've never had anyone accuse me of being stupid until after I've mentioned not having anything resembling a university education...Once that's been mentioned, the floodgates of criticism appear to open. - Because I get the same reaction, but in reverse. If I hold out on telling someone "what I do" - they really get a chance to know me. But sometimes, once the cat is out of the bag - the defensiveness and inferiority issues start flooding the gates. I wish it weren't so. Because I'm the same person whose company they were just enjoying. I am just "me" - and my profession and the road it took to get there is just part of what made me "me." | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:33:15 PM | When people have very different backgrounds and life expectations it simply causes problems down the track. The PhD you met probably didn't mean to seem snooty to you, she probably saw you in the same category as a first year student, a professional hazard possibly. If the "snootiness" was your impression just from her profile stating she had a PhD then you need to rethink your attitudes about women. This lady isn't hiding who she is to avoid "offending" someone with less education; she is simply and honestly stating a fact about herself. Educated women don't expect to be have to act subservient and simpering - they are looking for their equals. If she hadn't put in the PhD, her dates would be walking off, feeling intimidated and foolish. Few women enjoy making their dates feel like they are silly; it is kinder and more humane to just give advance warning in the profile. She has done the right thing. PhD or not, educated or not people are still human, there are precious, precious few men that would really be in her league. You may find her quite a friendly person, who has lived very simply for a long time to afford her studies, so don't judge too quickly.
Equals would bring equal things to the table in a partnership. Equal levels of ambition and perserverence and importantly equal expectations about pay packets. Let's face it the PhD would be expecting to do considerable amounts of international travel and live quite well. Would you be able to afford your own plane fares if you want to play in this league? Can you expect to be earning a similar salary or would you expect her to support you?
Be proud of who you are, and congratulations on your GED, I think you should certainly put that in your profile. It took some courage and determination to get it, so be as justifiably proud of it as anyone else who has worked for something. I hope you are inspired to go as far as you can. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:23:48 AM | I think that compatible intelligence levels are important for a relationship to work. Most people see degrees as a way to ensure this compatibility.
This is from my observations:
This is more of a problem if the women is significantly smarter than the guy.
Because: Women like to talk about their work, what happened at work, etc., far more than guys. If her SO can't comprehend what she is talking about then he will appear disinterested, and the relationship will go down hill. Men seem to be better at leaving work at work, and find other focus topics for discussions. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:47:29 AM | | Look at it this way: Be glad they outed themselves so you can pass them over and not wonder if you're missing something. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/9/2008 2:23:13 PM | To each their own. It don't think it is so much bragging, simply stating.
I did meet a woman (my age) in a pub once who introduced herself to me as "Dr. So-and-so." I mean we're in a bar, too hell I'm referring to anyone as "Dr."
"Nice to meet you Dr. I'm the Duke of Maple Road but you can call me Duke." | |
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| No snow jobs please!
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:37:57 PM | Doctor of Philosophy/Ph.d boasting
no snow jobs please
This title is a quite respectful title! A person that has devoted their life to, life long learning, is like a needle in a hay stack.
My old partner had a Ph.d , and was the most down to earth person you can meet.
Though it is not nice to say; " sonny you need to go read some books"
Bottom line; If you are fortunate enough to meet someone from a higher level of education to befriend you, my suggestion is to take full advantage of that.
"To write a thesis, or to read a thesis" That is the question.
If at first you don't succeed , here is some advice that you should meet; Don't ever let no one criticize your drive,
These people are taught to teach.
Yours sincerely,
111incogneto
notes; A candidate must submit a thesis or dissertation consisting of a suitable body of original academic research, which is in principle worthy of publication in a peer-refereed context.
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/10/2008 10:15:21 PM | | As others stated before, a PhD is A LOT of work, so if people are proud of it, they have a re ason for that. This being said, there is no mentioning of my education in my profile (and I DO have reasons to brag) because the last thing I want to do is to come across as a stuck up person or intimidate the girl who is reading my profile. | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/10/2008 10:31:31 PM | I don't ever mention my education or what I do... Not in my profile, not in my forum posts.
That info is released strictly on "need to know" basis.
Although I do admit to running my own dungeon.
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:10:06 PM | | And in the case of that dungeon... PhD means "Pain? Her Dungeon!" It's really more of a marketing ploy... | |
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| Ph.d boasting
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:28:06 PM | thorondor, lol! When I was in grad school, after making the mistake once, I vowed never to get involved again with a guy working on his dissertation. These guys fall in love with their typists since they're spending so much time with them. . . . And believe me, you can't compete with a guy's typist. . . .
OPie, the perception is coming from *you* not the other. Buck up and just be proud of you. And don't worry about other peeps and what they think. You'll prolly be wrong anyways.
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