| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:59:09 AM |
10,000 hrs wow!
How about another 5 minutes of study and observe that Jesus never said this in Revelation.
That was what I was trying to understand as his meaning as well. I found it interesting that he stated since age 5 as his starting point since a child’s mind does not think that way. Unless he was different from almost every other child.
I also questioned it because for myself seeing the nice round number of 10,000 hrs seemed more like an assumption of a measure of time spent. For myself I study many things every single day and could never separate what topic of study is sectioned out since the study of one thing usually also results in a study of something else at the same time simply by following the rules of chain study.
When following one thing I quite often get steered in a different thing than what was originally started. That results in studying many different things at the same time.
I guess he just wanted to reach a 10,000 hr level and then stopped. For myself I never stop.
One thing that I did notice and was waiting for him to respond to point out was that, with so many hours of study logged you would think he would be better at communicating. I am not trying to pick on him, but... the way the human brain absorbs information can not be prevented from shinning through what it has read and understands. That is generally shown by its ability to process and relay the information stored within that it has experienced.
I just do not see much experience shinning through. Regardless of what is studied, it becomes clear by examining what comes out. In the same way you can see what someone has been eating by studying what comes out the other end. knowledge seems to work the same way. You can see what someone has been seeing, reading, and STUDYING, by seeing what is coming out of it.
If I had to make a educated guess I would say he read a few chapters of the end of the book, glanced at a few others, listened to what a few preachers were saying and then dismissed it all as bullshyt refusing to read any further out of fear that it may change him and chose to start a rant instead.
IMO of course. 
OP try reading some of Proverbs I think you missed that book. | |
|
| |
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:03:42 AM | As a highly trained bible guy myself... Over 6 billion hours, (and that's how many people Mcdonalds serves by the way.) I too would like to shed some light on a few Bible fairy tales..
1. Jesus name is really translates Jimmy.. Yeah, so were suppose to say all our prayers in Jimmy's name..
2. And Elijah wasn't taken up in a chariot of fire or a whirlwind.. It was a U.F.O... Jimmy said so in his revelations..
3. There weren't 12 apostles.. There was 21.. the guy who translated that number was dixlexic, (did I spell that right???)
It's amazing what one can learn in a few billion hours of study... And even if it make no sense and is off the wall.. It still looks good in writing and makes me feel good...lol.. 
And I might also like to add that the OP must have been one heck of impressive 5 year old.. Studying all that complex material... He must have been on par with the baby Jesus.. excuse me, I mean Jimmy... | |
|
| |
| |
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/18/2008 5:01:11 PM | | the way i feel about church is the pastors teach people wrong sometimes. I feel like the chruch goers are like brainwashed zombies running around. they are also no better than non church goers. alot of them are rather mean people. and as far as bible goes there are lots of things the church teaches that is not true. and if people would jsut read it for themself instead of chooseing to bleive what someone is saying they would know right. for instance adam and eve were not the first two people put here but everyone thinks they are. if u read in ur bible it talks of all these other peolple before it tells where adam and eve came into play. if adam and eve were first two here where did the others come from before them that the bible speaks of? adam and eve did not even come into picture until day 8 i think day 8 or 9 . not sure which day.when two of everything was put on the ark that meant everything of every kind including people. two blacks two whites two of this and two that and so forth. it was not jsut animals as we call animals today. and then the bible has been re written so many times and i belive the people who wirte in write it in the way they understood it to mean. well there is more than one meaning for alot of phrases not to mention the bibles of today u buy are not even half the size of real full bible. there are so many phrases missing it aint funny which could change the meaning of the phrase we do have in our bible. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 2:57:34 AM | ^^ could you write and explain your last orgasm to the folks here?
Not trying to be rude
But with some things
In fact MANY things
Getting info from the written word just doesnt do it
You had to be there
So no matter who is telling you they have it right
They dont
The only judgment call you can possibly make is
"He who says he knows...is a gullible twit!"
So feel sorry for him but give him a wide berth at the same time
(he doesnt know he's a twit)
Why is it do you think that lil ol book mentions FAITH so often
You hear people spruke on about I am of this FAITH or that FAITH
But they really mean this RELIGION or that RELIGION
Faith....is another thing entirely
Quit thinking and quit reading so the plain simply truth that is staring right up your left nostril can make itself known to you.
cheers | |
|
| |
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 11:20:51 AM |
when two of everything was put on the ark that meant everything of every kind including people. two blacks two whites two of this and two that and so forth.
I was just curious if you realized no matter what color we are that we are all the same race. We are all human. Our blood is the same (Just different types) Our Organs are the same (Again just many different markers that control compatability)
Just like with cars not all the same parts will fit on every car and not all the same fuel will allow the cars to operate the same.
The pigmant of the skin is just what was required for that person to survive in the area of the world they lived in. That pigmant change just simply got encoded into their DNA to allow it to be passed on through the reproduction process.
So I don't think it says anywhere that two of every color of people were needed to be placed in the ark.
I may agree with you that some preachers are very confused but not all are completely ignorant.
I think where the problem is comes from that some preachers will pick passages from the bible to share with the understanding that they likely only have 45 min to 1 hr to get some word into your mind so they can't teach you the entire chapter of the book. It still requires you to read the passages before the ones quoted and after the ones quoted before you can understand the whole message they were trying to teach.
I agree far too many people wish to be religious and just choose to go to church on sunday to main line their fix to get them through to the following sunday. They listen to the preacher and then leave and do not bother to utilize what they were attempting to teach them.
Don't blame it all on the preachers. Some are bad but some are good. Some choose to condemn people and some choose to ease the burden of people.
One bad egg doesn't spoil the whole dozen. This is to say a few bad preachers doesn't spoil the whole message. It just means you have to check with what the bible says for yourself to be able to recognize the bad from the good. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 11:27:00 AM | One thing that I did notice and was waiting for him to respond to point out was that, with so many hours of study logged you would think he would be better at communicating. I am not trying to pick on him, but... the way the human brain absorbs information can not be prevented from shinning through what it has read and understands. That is generally shown by its ability to process and relay the information stored within that it has experienced.
I know what you mean, but I would also say that it can be difficult and even impossible to explain revelations from God that we are given, to others. Revelations from God are always based on the sure foundation of grace in Christ...and this grace in Christ can be difficult to put into words that others may understand simply because they are working on a different foundational premise and it doesn't have the ability to discern the revelation. Sometimes I am completely hopeless at writing what I want to say. This may have something to do with the fact that I am self educated, as I was removed from school after only comlpeting grade 8....They said I had a bad attitude....go figure :)
Anyways Paul had many revelations from God regarding heavenly realms, he could not speak of these to others and excused them as being unlawful to repeat....Sometimes God reveals things to individuals that are specifically for the individual and He doesn't allow us the words to explain our revelations, as this is meant for the individual and no one else.....But if they are explained, then they cannot depart from the premise and foundation of truth that is written in scripture. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 8:43:43 PM | Ahem
What is called revelations is called 'just knowing stuff' in many other cultures
But they dont analyse it to death
They just know its real and trust it
And revelations and people who received said revelations were around (and documented) loooooooooooooooooooong time before Jesus
So I dont know what all that has to do with it
In your good book there is an OLD testament as well as a new
Maybe brush up in it a bit
Walking with god
Or 'god' telling you stuff (or some people stuff)
Has been around since forever
They used to be called seers
Those who are 'disconnected' are only those who are in need of either scripture, or being told whats going down. Because they cant see it themselves. They are cut off from the source.
Pls refer doubting Thomas
The more proof you need
The more proof you seek
The less faith you have
The more you are cut off...disconnected
And the more you THEN have to rely on outside sources of information
And inevitably try and filter out what is not true from what is
It becomes an intellectual exercise...and like tredding a minefield | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 8:49:35 PM | here is something i ponder on. in the bible in genesis very 26 -28 god made man male and female in his image adn told them to be fruitful and multiply. now alot of people disagree with this when its in the bible in black and white. now if the bible has never changed then answer one question for me. if adam and eve were first two people here, how did the world multiply when adam and eve only had sons. if mom slept with son in order to be fruitful and multiply ..well today that is a sin. if its a sin today and the bible has not chnaged how was it not a sin then? ther eis only one explanation.. there were people as the bible says he made on day 6 before adam and eve meaning they were not first two here.
Themadfiddler, im gonna assume that means you dont have the answer therefore no need to reply. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 9:01:05 PM | You know what, as soon as I got over the need to expect a literal truth from the teachings of religion, I was able to get on with the real understanding of the true, deep stories of what is being taught within the pages of scriptures. Literal interpretation leads only to a tremendous headache, a frustrating career as an apologist (or lucrative depending on how dirty you can be and how many gullible marks you can find), and usually missing the point entirely.
Midrash.
It's a Hebrew concept. Learn it, live it, love it. While you are at it it might not hurt to learn a bit about Hebrew and Judaism if you are trying to learn about Christianity...with the danger that you might start to question a few things about Christianity as you currently believe it. Then again, you might also want to learn a bit about Canaanite/Phoenician religion, Sumerian, and Egyptian religion and that will lead to... oh well, you'll see | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/20/2008 9:11:47 PM | | I dont want teachings from any religion. they simply truely dont have the answers. no one does including you. all we as people can do is say what we believe. that does not make it right. its just what we each get out of reading a book or what someone told us. mr madfiddler what i do see is that you dont have the answer to my previous question. and it might be you who is missing the point entirely not others. what makes you think u know it all when u no nothing other than what someoene riased you to believe. its possible that that somene who taugh u was wrong. its funny how everyone belives their belief is right when in reality they have no idea. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/21/2008 1:17:18 AM |
here is something i ponder on. in the bible in genesis very 26 -28 god made man male and female in his image adn told them to be fruitful and multiply. now alot of people disagree with this when its in the bible in black and white. now if the bible has never changed then answer one question for me. if adam and eve were first two people here, how did the world multiply when adam and eve only had sons. if mom slept with son in order to be fruitful and multiply ..well today that is a sin. if its a sin today and the bible has not chnaged how was it not a sin then? ther eis only one explanation.. there were people as the bible says he made on day 6 before adam and eve meaning they were not first two here.
Themadfiddler, im gonna assume that means you dont have the answer therefore no need to reply.
That you should get off so lightly 
You know what they say, when you make an assumption you make an "ass" out of you and "umption."
I already answered your question. It's pretty clear that you don't really know a whole lot about the subject of the Bible or you would have known that when I said the Hebrew word "midrash."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash
The stories of the Tanakh, the Jewish Scriptures that make up what Christians refer to in their own way as the "Old Testament" are a statement of faith, a collection of tales and narratives and a cosmology that relate the relationship of the Hebrew people to
G-d.
That IS the answer to your question, whether you like it or not. The answer is, the story is metaphoric and if you take it literally, you need to be buried up to your neck in sand and your head used for a croquet ball. If you don't like the answer, you have two choices: Prove it wrong, or put on your poor baby helmet and suck it up through a short straw. That's what any expert on Near East Religions would tell you, what any mainstream scholar of the Bible would tell you and pretty near any rabbi would tell you as well.
One can "say what they believe" all they want...saying what you believe does not make anything right or worth believing if what you truly seek is the truth of the matter. If that is what you want, then you need to cast off what you believe, what you think, and what you feel is right for the cold hard truth no matter how much it hurts your security, preconceived notions and restfulness of mind to do so. When G-d commands to Know that He is G-d, he doesn't ask us to accept blindly that He is the creator. The words in Hebrew are very specific. If you believe you were created in G-d's image then you have to believe you were created with a reasoning brain that was made to seek truth. To discard reason and the pursuit of truth for blind faith would be to spit in the face of the Almighty and refuse his greatest gift.
It's your choice. I prefer not to shirk my duties so lightly. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/21/2008 3:55:56 AM | unfortunately you have no idea what is true. you may believe what u believe but that is not the whole truth. I did not read a story. I read how he made the world. and it says how in plain english.
You said to me..... you need to be buried up to your neck in sand and your head used for a croquet ball.
Well I say to you, look yourself up in the bible under hypocrit. your are a prime example of what i have been saying. alot of church people are evil..God disapproves of evil. myabe you should try to get closer to God instead of wasting your energy downing people. If you even knew God alittle bit, your rude, hateful commnet woud have not been made becuaes you would know comments like that does not please God, esp when somene is trying to understnad things in the bible and instead of helping you bash. you are the hypocrit the bible speaks of. And no im not a religious person but i do have questions that hopefully someone can answer without bashing. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/21/2008 12:11:40 PM |
You said to me..... you need to be buried up to your neck in sand and your head used for a croquet ball.
Don't misquote people in the PoF forums. That's very much against the rules here and constitutes the same thing as libel. I've been very tolerant so far while you've essentially flamed me left and right, called me a hypocrit (sic) and implied that I am evil and "not knowing what I am talking about". I said if a person chooses to believe something as literal that is clearly not literal, THEN they may as well have their head used for a croquet ball...and I'll finish that up with because they are clearly not using it to think with. If you choose to put yourself in that camp, that is your business but in reading what I wrote I made no direct insult at any person and my words are in print for anyone to see.
Now as you are the only one engaging in any bashing here, I'll kindly ask you to cease and desist because the next bit of it gets reported to the moderators.
unfortunately you have no idea what is true. you may believe what u believe but that is not the whole truth.
That's what a forum is for, you have the opportunity to try and prove me wrong. So far you just have an accusation...that doesn't go a long way towards doing anything other than going "neener neener neener I'm rubber and you're glue"
I did not read a story. I read how he made the world. and it says how in plain english.
If you are talking about the Bible, it is in "plain English" thanks to translation. That doesn't change the fact that it is essentially a story. It is your fond belief that it is something more than that and you have every right to that belief but that is all that it is. Originally that story was in Ancient Hebrew and after that Greek, then Latin and now English. Just because you didn't like my answer doesn't make it illegitimate. I am sure someone of the Christian faith will be along shortly to give you an answer that is more palatable for you, so if you don't like what I am telling you why not wait and just respond to them? However, if you choose to respond to me, why not try a legitimate argument with facts instead of flaming, hmm? | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/21/2008 12:24:24 PM | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash
I must agree with what I posted here from the site you shared madfiddler, I couldn't grasp a lot of what they said in the short amount of time I glanced through the site...but I can certainly relate to this as being a necessary study habit when seeking the truth in the scriptures....
Many different exegetical methods are employed to derive deeper meaning from a text. This is not limited to the traditional thirteen textual tools attributed to the Tanna Rabbi Ishmael, which are used in the interpretation of halakha (Jewish law). Presence of superfluous words or letters, chronology of events, parallel narratives or other textual anomalies are often a springboard for interpretation of segments of Biblical text. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/21/2008 1:06:29 PM | if adam and eve were first two people here, how did the world multiply when adam and eve only had sons.
Actually, the bible does say that Adam and Eve had both sons and daughters, they just don't name the daughters in the genealogies (which wasn't that uncommon) or talked about them in any detail.
Adam's Descendants to Noah
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man [15] when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.
It's also very possible that God created other people who were living on earth as well after Adam and Eve, but they aren't included in Genesis for unknown reasons. And incest was certainly possible as well. The bible definitely has things that seem contradictory between just the old and new testaments in everything from rape, slavery to murder and war. It's also been debated in Christianity as early as the first centuries that Genesis is not a literal account, but a allegory rather than a historical description. That's why you'll also find Christians who have no problem with evolution or the big Bang theory.
in the bible in genesis very 26 -28 god made man male and female in his image adn told them to be fruitful and multiply. now alot of people disagree with this when its in the bible in black and white.
I happen to be one of those people who don't believe that the commandment in Genesis is still relevant today as the earth is full of billions of people, but was void of people at the time God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. I just had a discussion recently on another thread with someone else here in regards to this. Various religions and churches have different beliefs in regards to this as well, so my opinion and understandings don't represent everyone else's. The bible can often seem contradictory if a verse is pulled out and not looked at in an interpretative way, and various scholars and major denominations (catholics and orthodox have a lot of minor differences from the protestants for example) aren't in full agreement in all things, but believe in unity on the major things: issues of salvation, The lordship of Jesus Christ, etc.
I think what themadfiddler was trying to say that his studies do not necessarily represent those of traditional Christianity. Christian interpretations of the Scripture are often considered more literal than Jewish interpretations and other religions he's studied and I'm often very impressed by his depth of knowledge in regards to religions and history. I probably shouldn't attempt to speak for another, though, so please correct me Mr. Madfiddler if I've just mangled your intentions and thoughts.  | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/21/2008 8:47:47 PM |
I think what themadfiddler was trying to say that his studies do not necessarily represent those of traditional Christianity. Christian interpretations of the Scripture are often considered more literal than Jewish interpretations and other religions he's studied and I'm often very impressed by his depth of knowledge in regards to religions and history. I probably shouldn't attempt to speak for another, though, so please correct me Mr. Madfiddler if I've just mangled your intentions and thoughts.
Not at all, you've hit in on the head and I think provided what should also be IMHO a satisfactory answer according to scripture that should hopefully placate those who wish to solely use that approach.
I'd like to note again for the record that while there are those who wish to take offense at what I said, it is my firm belief - which I also believe is well supported by available mainstream scholarship - that a literal approach is not one that can be used especially approaching the oldest of scriptural stories because such an approach is anachronistic thinking that doesn't reflect how the people who wrote the words actually approached the writing of faith based narratives.
The story of Adam and Eve/The Garden/The Origins of Man is not a Jewish Biblical original and has its origins as a creation myth from proto-Canaanite/Ugaritic culture. Like many of the stories that made their way into the Hebrew Scripture, such as the Flood, this story has antecedents in much older religions and was collated into the Hebrew Bible at a much later date. This is fact from the historical/archaeological record as we know it so far. These stories are written in a highly metaphoric, non-literal and "mythic" style.
Before someone wants to challenge that assertion, I would present the entire corpus of study of Near Eastern Religion as corroboration which seems to bear that out.
Thank you stillwaters for providing the clarification and the response.  | |
|
| |
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:23:41 AM | | Dreams, dont take my word for anything. its not me who siad it. its God. read genesis chapter one and tell me what ur bible says happened on day 6. make sure u understand every sentence you read concerning day 6. clear your mind of what u were taught. read for yourself. Adam and eve was not the first here. someone stated earlier that they had daughters too. well would that matter its still father daughtrer or mother son or brother and sister to create the world. that is a huge sin today. therefore unless the bible has changed it was a sin back then too. there is no choice. there was people here before adam and eve and it says so in the bible. God created male and female in his own image on day 6. God made adam later. not only does it say it but its all that would make sense. If you read it and still dont bleive what is written there..that means u are calling God a liar. And in that case, I feel for you. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:18:16 AM |
Not at all, you've hit in on the head and I think provided what should also be IMHO a satisfactory answer according to scripture that should hopefully placate those who wish to solely use that approach.
Well there's one thing yesterday that I didn't screw up at least. *wipes brow in relief*
I'd like to note again for the record that while there are those who wish to take offense at what I said, it is my firm belief - which I also believe is well supported by available mainstream scholarship - that a literal approach is not one that can be used especially approaching the oldest of scriptural stories because such an approach is anachronistic thinking that doesn't reflect how the people who wrote the words actually approached the writing of faith based narratives.
You've presented your beliefs quite clearly and at this point aren't responsible for another's comprehension- or lack of- your words or any offense they take.
The story of Adam and Eve/The Garden/The Origins of Man is not a Jewish Biblical original and has its origins as a creation myth from proto-Canaanite/Ugaritic culture. Like many of the stories that made their way into the Hebrew Scripture, such as the Flood, this story has antecedents in much older religions and was collated into the Hebrew Bible at a much later date. This is fact from the historical/archaeological record as we know it so far. These stories are written in a highly metaphoric, non-literal and "mythic" style.
I hadn't realized that that the creation and flood stories were collated into the Hebrew Bible at a much later date. Very helpful information- thanks. There's a lot I wish I knew and would like to study, but I'm not really sure where to begin.
Kittenshere41 said:
If you read it and still dont bleive what is written there..that means u are calling God a liar. And in that case, I feel for you.
To be fair, I don't think anyones called God a liar. A non-Christian is not going to believe Genesis or the bible as God's word if they're either another faith all together or non-God believing entirely. This forum contains as many beliefs as there is people and I think the best we can all hope for is just to learn from one another.
Truth and belief are very subjective to each individual. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:28:43 AM | | stillwaters, no I guess I shouldnt have said that and ur right each to their own belief. I had a big fight about church with sister and I guess I was mad when I posted here. different people just understand things different. no one really knows and we wont until we die and meet our maker. He and only he has the real answers. we simply belive what we think a verse or scripture means. doesnt make us right or wrong. | |
|
| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:37:37 AM | madfiddler wrote
The story of Adam and Eve/The Garden/The Origins of Man is not a Jewish Biblical original and has its origins as a creation myth from proto-Canaanite/Ugaritic culture. Like many of the stories that made their way into the Hebrew Scripture, such as the Flood, this story has antecedents in much older religions and was collated into the Hebrew Bible at a much later date. This is fact from the historical/archaeological record as we know it so far. These stories are written in a highly metaphoric, non-literal and "mythic" style.
stillwatersrundeep replied
I hadn't realized that that the creation and flood stories were collated into the Hebrew Bible at a much later date. Very helpful information- thanks. There's a lot I wish I knew and would like to study, but I'm not really sure where to begin.
I have read most of the bible if not probably all of it throughout the years. As I understand the mystery of God and His purposes for His creation..the exegesis I have concluded is complete and verified through the entirety of scripture being brought into consideration. Much of the bible reflects the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the flood as inspired by God and to be considered scriptural truth. Most of the bible writers quote from these incidents in thier own theological intepretations. So to consider them as not fitting to be there in the first place, one would have to dismiss the entirty of the scriptures as genuine due to the reality that the biblical authors taught from these same historical accounts that have been passed on through the ages. | |
|
Home
login 
