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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:45:30 AM | I had a big fight about church with sister and I guess I was mad when I posted here.
I've read a couple of your other comments in regards to your sister and I really feel for you. It's very difficult when a Christian (or any belief system really) imposes those beliefs in hurtful and demeaning ways upon another. Family relations can be difficult enough without adding religion to the mix, ugh.
no one really knows and we wont until we die and meet our maker. He and only he has the real answers.
I think that's my greatest hope of all. I don't think I'll ever really understand and just try to trust that in the end, all will be revealed.
I hope that you have a very blessed day full of simple joys and peace.  | |
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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 11:05:49 AM | consigliere31 said: I have read most of the bible if not probably all of it throughout the years. As I understand the mystery of God and His purposes for His creation..the exegesis I have concluded is complete and verified through the entirety of scripture being brought into consideration. Much of the bible reflects the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the flood as inspired by God and to be considered scriptural truth. Most of the bible writers quote from these incidents in thier own theological intepretations. So to consider them as not fitting to be there in the first place, one would have to dismiss the entirty of the scriptures as genuine due to the reality that the biblical authors taught from these same historical accounts that have been passed on through the ages.
I really appreciate your comment and what you're saying. I was taught from childhood and believed until my thirties that Genesis was literal. You're correct that other bible writers did use those incidents in their writings in both testaments.
I will say, however, that I no longer believe Genesis to be literal but allegorical in nature. I am confused in many areas of my faith. | |
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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 11:35:18 AM | I will say, however, that I no longer believe Genesis to be literal but allegorical in nature. I am confused in many areas of my faith.
I will agree that Genesis 1 account of creation is not literal, but is prophetic. Prophecies are never literal in meaning, but carry a spiritual meaning that is much deeper. As I have already shared the 7 days are not literal but are ages in which an evening/darkness ended an age, and the Morning Star brought light to a new age and stage of development in the process of God making mankind into His own image. For example the first day i consider to end with Noah and the flood, as there were waters covering the face of the earth...Day 2 began with a covenat bewteen God and Noah, and this new day and covenant was the light and morning of the new age tat was to begin.....
The creation of man and woman into the image of God was done on the 6'th day..
I believe that this prophecy in Isaiah is speaking of the 6'th day of creation of man and women being made into God's image..
Isaiah 66:8
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, She gave birth to her children.
A 'Day' is used in prophecy to describe an entirety of an age...for example in Genesis it uses the term 'day of creation' to describe the entire 7 days that are accounted for in Genesis 1..
Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
and if we notice, the scriptures themselves reveal that these time spans were in fact generations and not literal days, but the entire process is described as the 'day' of creation.
In the same way the 'sabbath day' is not a literal day in the prophetic....but is a spiritual state of being in eternal rest from our labors and to be placed into grace....as long as we are under grace, then we are partaking in the sabbath day of rest...
Hebrews 4
7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
So I believe it is an error to consider these 7 days of creation as literal and not to consider that the account of creation in Genesis 1 is prophetic and speaking of a race of mankind born out of Zion, that began with Christ.... the last Adam , and not the first man Adam. who was only the rough draft of mankind,,,,,just as we as humans are yet in the state of being the 'rough draft' of God's image..
Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; | |
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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 12:10:01 PM | Thanks for always taking the time to write such thorough comments that really explain why you believe what you believe. You're definitely one of the people whom I learn a lot from in reading the comments. I wish you were a member of my bible study, heh.
I will agree that Genesis 1 account of creation is not literal, but is prophetic. Prophecies are never literal in meaning, but carry a spiritual meaning that is much deeper. As I have already shared the 7 days are not literal but are ages in which an evening/darkness ended an age, and the Morning Star brought light to a new age and stage of development in the process of God making mankind into His own image. For example the first day i consider to end with Noah and the flood, as there were waters covering the face of the earth...Day 2 began with a covenat bewteen God and Noah, and this new day and covenant was the light and morning of the new age tat was to begin....
Very interesting and I can't ever recall hearing the the 7 "days" broken down quite like this, although most don't believe them to be literal days. I'll be pondering this for sometime to come.
In the same way the 'sabbath day' is not a literal day in the prophetic....but is a spiritual state of being in eternal rest from our labors and to be placed into grace....as long as we are under grace, then we are partaking in the sabbath day of rest...
I always like your focus on grace and relationship with Christ. I was raised and a member of very "law" churches that put a lot of fear and duty into our relationship with God. Much of my faith has been changing for a lot of years now and I have far to go. I don't like being confused about my faith, but it's just the simple truth. | |
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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 12:47:16 PM | Very interesting and I can't ever recall hearing the the 7 "days" broken down quite like this, although most don't believe them to be literal days. I'll be pondering this for sometime to come.
I have begun to do some studies towards this topic of the seven days of creation....and I have collected thoughts from others as well over the past couple of years concerning this...
I have a rough idea of where it is going, but I don't feel it to be anything more than my own thoughts compiled with others thoughts and don't consider this to be any revelation from God that I can cement as being truth...but if you are interested, this is where I am at so far..
Day 1.. the separation from light and darkness, good and evil, and the consequences that it brings. The earth was filled with darkness at the end of the day and the flood and destruction of the world's population ended the first day.
Day 2...the waters were separated and God made a covenant with Noah
Day 3..... God separated the waters into 'Seas' which I understand prophetically to refer to people..."the waters which you saw where the harlot sits are peoples (Rev. 17:15) On the third day we see another visitation from God upon the earth at the Tower of Babel...on this day the peoples were separated into different nations and tongues....
Day 4..God created the sun, moon and stars to separate the light from the darkness. I believe this to be referring to the children of Israel as they are considered the stars od God and His chosen people on the earth..as well the israelites were given the law that would become a light unto thier path and distinguish the difference from darkness....ironically if the sun was not literally created until the 4'th day, then the literal 'day' seems to become obscurred with no rising of the sun in the first 3 days, as it was not created as of yet.
Day 5....God created the 'sea' monsters to rule the 'sea' I consider this monster to be the birth of the opposing religions such as Islam, and these monsters/religions rule over men/seas. God also established the 'seed' principle, in which every seed should reproduce after its own kind, which I consider to be a foreshadowing of the Seed of God/ Word of God/ Jesus Christ, that was to be sown in humanity to produce the image of God in man
Day 6....began on Pentecost with the image of God being seeded within mankind via the Spiritual birth. Also signifying that Christ had 'finished' the work of God...'It is finished'
Day 7.....Is the spiritual sabbath day of rest and the fulfillment of God's work, it is a ongoing state of grace where man rests in God's completed image .. | |
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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 2:11:39 PM |
I have begun to do some studies towards this topic of the seven days of creation....and I have collected thoughts from others as well over the past couple of years concerning this...
I'm curious if you've got any authors, theologians, websites or commentaries that you're really learning from or find insightful? I always appreciate recommendations.
I have a rough idea of where it is going, but I don't feel it to be anything more than my own thoughts compiled with others thoughts and don't consider this to be any revelation from God that I can cement as being truth...but if you are interested, this is where I am at so far..
Yes, please always feel very free to share as I'm very interested. It's quite new and interesting to read.
Day 5....God created the 'sea' monsters to rule the 'sea' I consider this monster to be the birth of the opposing religions such as Islam, and these monsters/religions rule over men/seas. God also established the 'seed' principle, in which every seed should reproduce after its own kind, which I consider to be a foreshadowing of the Seed of God/ Word of God/ Jesus Christ, that was to be sown in humanity to produce the image of God in man
This one I found the most baffling. What is the scriptural premise for the "sea monsters to rule the sea" being opposing religions? Would this correlate to Abraham's first son Ishmael, born of Sarah's handmaiden Hagar? | |
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| churches teach the fairy tale not the truth-examples given
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:02:28 PM |
This one I found the most baffling. What is the scriptural premise for the "sea monsters to rule the sea" being opposing religions? Would this correlate to Abraham's first son Ishmael, born of Sarah's handmaiden Hagar?
I have problems with that one myself and feel it is in error in some ways, I have another thought that day 4 and day 5 may need some more input to clarify the 'sea monsters' ....I've also a consideration that because days would be meaning the dawn of a new age/ earth and a new heavenly and spiritual authority/covenant... should bring the covenant of Abraham and the covenant of the law as separte days. The Abraham covenant reflecting day 4 and the Covenant with the Israelites beginning on Day 5. I suppose this thought comes to mind also with God's reference to Abraham regarding the stars of the heavens and the sands of the earth equating to his descendants. IN all honesty I don't want to share much more on this topic in this thread, given the nature of the thread title and the inconsistancy in what we are sharing.....I consider it innappropriate.
On your first question
I do have many good websites and references that I could share if you are inclined to email me I will respond with some...and I could probably direct you to some good articles that could clear up many of the struggles we have from confusion regarding faith, grace, exposing error in traditional doctrine that leads to negative attitudes towards God....etc... | |
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