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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:53:56 PM | sienna 99 wrote:
Hopeful 73 you actually sound like a really nice guy but yeah you sure have opened a can of horrible worms. shall we get this thread deleted now, and send all the christian bashers back to the religeon forum where they belong and have a party of our own? hahahaha 
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Thank you sienna. My bad for thinking people were capable of staying on-topic when it concerns a subject like this. If there were only some way to send the Red Sea crashing-in on all these ridiculous posts that are being written now!
Guess this is why I didnt see this topic in my thread searches before beginning it, huh? lol | |
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jtm216
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Joined: 7/16/2007
Msg: 252 | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:18:16 PM |
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Hey, I keep adding...
This gets back to what I was saying earlier, that how Einstein defined "god" is very different from how many people in this thread define it. Anyone who believes that there is a watching sentient entity over this Universe has got a serious problem of evidence to overcome. You can claim "faith" in your belief but don't go looking in the world for a single drop of empirical data to support it. All attempts thus far have failed. That said, Einstein in particular stated many times that he didn't have an idea of a personal "god". As I mentioned in my post, he was more a deist (like Spinoza) or Thomas Jefferson, calling God the power behind creation but that doesn't mean he thought it was sentient.
Regarding any recognition of "the impossibility of a non-created universe." there is no evidence for that that I am aware of in the first place. In the second, we've learned a lot more about how the universe was formed then was known during Einstein's time. We also are aware of many things that can be said to be "non created", the Casimir effect details a force that exists precisely because of the existence of spontaneously created virtual particles. The surface of the Earth has no beginning and no end, in mathematics the idea of eternity is critically important to our understanding of many physical theories. Still , weather by non creation or creation, it does not follow that any triggering act is a sentient agent, this is where those looking for a God or God's take a jump of the cliff. Existence does not require a triggering creation even, some things just are.
Regarding the uncertainty principle statement that Einstein made when he first encountered it, he later accepted the results of uncertainty as any good scientist would when confronted with the evidence. That is what makes him such a great scientist, the minute he was convinced that something was not as previous evidence led him to believe , he changed his mind. Unfortunately is ability to do this failed him as he got older, he spent the last 15 years of his life trying to synthesize general relativity and quantum mechanics in ways that today are considered impossible today. He got so caught up in "faith" that he moved further away from reality and lost the plot. A lesson for those of "faith". Many of these quotes have been denuded of their proper context for use in sound bites by people with religious agendas which is quite unfortunate and totally violates the spirit of a great scientist. Here is a link to the full texts of that particular quote. ("Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
Here it in context(emphasis mine):
Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs *the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational*, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
You'll note that Einstein was not talking about "religion" in the sense of a formal set of practices and rituals regarding the following of a God. He was talking specifically about the "faith" element of religious belief. He claims that faith is required to a scientist in the fact that "the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational". In doing these he points out the fact that he is not a philosopher, as a philosopher would give this an a prior truth. The fact that reality is rational is mutually exclusive from any faith in that fact. It just is. That said, his point had nothing to do with science having religious "I believe without proof" faith but only that there was an acceptance in the rationality of reality. Unfortunately this is based on the assumption that the rationality of reality requires our faith, which it does not. It is not uncommon that the subtleties of philosophical writings are lost on readers particularly when those writings are not digested in context. This is a common problem of science when approached by the laymen and highlights a major weakness of those in science in putting forward the "truth" without inadvertently injecting the "interpretations" of the listener. I mentioned this problem in a previous post to this thread, and it is clearly illustrated here in the interpretation of meaning to Einstein's quote. Like many before him and after him Einstein made mistakes, he was not perfect, though I admire him greatly I am also cognizant of his failings in science and outside of it. No person should be so lionized that every word they say is taken as gospel, this in itself speaks to the problem of ready "faith" in things that appear to be reasonable to the minds of impressionable listeners. Worse still is the misappropriation of various words to be used in an unrelated agenda. Einstein's quotes have been twisted for the use of religious groups for a while but always the important context is left out. It is ironic that this tendency (to resort to faith) which on one hand has allowed humanity to thrive on Earth by allowing us to quickly gain trust in others, has also given us the tendency to believe things like God(s), monsters, aliens and ghosts without having any evidence for those beliefs. We can reduce the tendency to draw these irrational conclusions by sticking to the data relentlessly and questioning always, even our established beliefs by constantly probing reality for evidence, supporting or not so that we can refine our position. This to me is what makes science so alive, so fun! | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:24:08 PM | Hopeful 73, As far as fearing God.....I would compare it to fearing my dad when I was a child and until the day he died. I loved him and respected him and knew that he wanted only the best for me and from me. He would do good things for me and be disappointed in me when I willfully disobeyed him. I wasn't afraid that he was going to hurt me physically.
I am a Christian but I do not normally tell that in the profile, but it enters into the conversation early on. As Christians we are taught,by the scripture, to not be unequally yoked. This is really very practical when starting a relationship, especially with the younger people that will be starting a family. It is really best to have things in common. There are enough problems that we encounter in relationships even in the same religion without that added problem.
If someone is looking to meet a Christian man and are looking for different from you, do you think that you would be happy with them anyway?
As far as women mentionng that they are Christian and their picture doesn't appear as you would expect......they might want to reconsider the signals that they are sending out. But I will say that even Christians looking for a life partner need to see something that has a physical appeal to them also. Christian men like to see a pretty girl also. God made us all as sexual beings and there has to be an attraction. But just my personal opinion, there is a time and place for everything. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:28:48 PM | @just_em
We were made in God's image.
Some proof please.
God wants us to be happy and healthy.
Which one? Of Abraham? Mithras? Amun? Asura Mazda? Thor?
Taking care of yourself is important. I have body builder friends that compete and have their pictures everywhere. I have had friends that model and have some pictures in undergarments. It isn't the clothing you wear, it is who is in it that is important. It is how you treat others. If you can't care about yourself, how can you care about others?
On this I must say we find agreement!  | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:30:51 PM | @just_em
Intelligent people know that they will never know everything and that the more they learn the more they realize how little they do know.
I am trying to figure out how you conducted the logistics of that poll of ALL intelligent people to come to that conclusion. (point: semantics is very important!) | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:37:39 PM | | The majority of women here to me, seem to be non-Christian or non-religious. If the majority of women you meet have this sort of religious attitude, it might be saying something about the people you are mixing with or who find you attractive. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:42:35 PM |
Ive noticed a lot of profiles lately that say right in the first couple lines something like "I put God first in my life and am looking for someone who's the same way".
Against the number of people out here I would say very few profiles say something like that--yeah I gotta call ya on that one. | |
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jtm216
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Joined: 7/16/2007
Msg: 260 | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:40:24 AM | Hello Norseviking869:
Thank you for your reply.
This country was founded mostly by Chrisians seeking freedom. There were very few nonbelievers involved in the forming of this country. Brush up on your History. Even the non believers stated that they would never want an ungodly man to run this country.
Seperation of church and state. You cant do that...then only athiest could be in the government.
ATHIESTS NEVER STARTED WARS? ...are you sure? How about the USSR ......Not a nation of God...started many wars and conflicts (Afganistan for one) and took over many many nations and called it the USSR. USA has had wars...but NEVER takes over a country...but we rebuild it and ALWAYS GIVE IT BACK. True Fact!!!
Other religions.....just because they say "God"...doesnt mean its the same God as the Christian God who through his Bible and the Biblical Prophecies proof positive that the Bible is true through his Biblical prophicies. The satinists call Lucifer "God". He is their God.. the difference between satan and other "godlets" is that Satan or Lucifer really does exist. No other religion has a book that can be proven accurate through history other than the Christian Bible. Some other religions use the Old Testament which is also the word of God...but they leave out the New Covenant or agreement which is now called the New Testament.
GOOD PROPHESY READ: Hal Linseys book called "The Late Great Planet Earth".. also a book called "When the world will (or shall) be as one" by Tal Brooke and many many more. Just read them and them make your judgement. There are many more. You are here on earth to be tested by God. That is THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE HERE. Make your choice....search for truth. If you dont believe me....being that the consequences are so grave....search for your self. Try the books Ive mentioned. They are based on Bible prophecies.
The Tal Brook addresses the New Age religion....many roads to God...the God Force. All lies of Satan. In the book of Genisis when Lucifer was thrown out of heaven lucifer said , "I will be like the most high God." I cant understand why the new agers dont understand that they are embracing the same thing that Lucifer was thrown out of heaven for. Knowledge is power.
THIS WAS WRITTEN BY THOMAS JEFFERSON...AUTHOR OF OUR CONSTITUTION...THEY DONT TEACH ANY OF THIS IN THE SCHOOLS ANYMORE..Im not sure which founding fathers you say were athiests, but I have read the constitution and many other documents...dont see that athiesm was prevalent........Hope you enjoy reading about the founding of the Great and Godly Nation....Mentioned is the God who blessed us so richly.........The one the athiest say doesnt exist...or as one woman put it ...an imaginary friend....I feel sorry for those who do not believe....it will be a horrible awaking when you are at the judgement seat of Christ and it will be too late for you. Try thinking what it is like to live in gang ridden neighborhoods....kind of a hell dont you think? That will be your future.. Evil...hate...agony...but never ever forget...you were given a chance to make a choice for life or death.. ITS YOUR CHOICE! I urge you....at least do some reading and educate yourselve before you form your opions...God loves all of us...but it is our choice....
I GIVE YOU NOW THE WRITTINGS OF THOMAS JEFFERSON;;;ENJOY FOLKS!!! ITS ABOUT THE BIRTH OF OUR WONDERFUL LOVING NATION...YES EVEN WITH ITS IMPERFECTIONS...ALL IN ALL... IT IS THE MOST WONDERFUL NATION IN ALL OF TIME. GOD TRULY BLESSES US...BUT UNFORTUNATELY....SOME OF US KICKED HIM OUT...WEVE SEWN THE WIND....NOW WE ARE REAPING THE WHIRLWIND!!!
The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. ME 1:211, Papers 1:135
"The Giver of life gave it for happiness and not for wretchedness." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1782. ME 4:196, Papers 6:186
"If [God] has made it a law in the nature of man to pursue his own happiness, He has left him free in the choice of place as well as mode, and we may safely call on the whole body of English jurists to produce the map on which nature has traced for each individual the geographical line which she forbids him to cross in pursuit of happiness." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817. ME 15:124
"Perfect happiness, I believe, was never intended by the Deity to be the lot of one of his creatures in this world; but that he has very much put in our power the nearness of our approaches to it, is what I as steadfastly believe." --Thomas Jefferson to John Page, 1763. ME 4:10, Papers 1:10
SO I NEED TO ASK YOU....WHERE IS THIS "SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" YOUVE TALKED ABOUT. READ THE CONSTITUTION. YOU WILL SEE THAT "LIBERAL' JUDGES HAVE TAKEN THE LIBERTY TO PUSH THEIR OWN VIEWS ON US AND NOT THE TRUE VIEWS OF OUR CONSTITUTION THAT OUR FOREFATHERS WROTE. A GOD GIVEN DOCUMENT.
LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER. (michael savages book.. another good read...come on guys...educate yourselves...read something other than what falls in line with your liberal beliefs. think outside of your box.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
NEVER FORGET.....PEACE HAS NEVER BEEN ACHIEVED WITHOUT WAR. EVIL ONLY RESPECTS POWER.. YOU CANT BARGAIN WITH EVIL PEOPLE. JUST WONT HAPPEN. DONT BE A WHIMP.. ITS REALITY. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "A BOWL FULL OF CHERRIES" NOT REALITY.
  What the world needs now is love. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 2:08:57 AM | STRANGER IN THE HOUSE:
posted 5/8/2008 8:07 a.m. page 3
I dont think your as old as I.. I have seen this country go so far downhill. Maybe you cant see it because you have no clue what it used to be. You werent here! I was. When I was young....you never had to lock a door one. Not even in the city of San Francisco. Try doing that now. Isnt that a grave change?
Most families were intact. Mom at home (her job was taking care of her children and the daddy..providing healthy food, clean clothes and lots and lots of love caring and time...not making money) and Dad working to support the family. All the way it should be. Hasnt that changed?
We traded Leave it to Beaver, Andy of Mayberry for Al Bundy and Married with children.. YUCK. Is that the role model you want for your children...Al Bundy..?
Racial segregation: Mmmmm seems like weve changed that too. Blacks are doing great here in America.. Bet their glad their not living in Africa where people have their arms and legs cut off for fun. God must love those slave he brought here to live in America. They are truly blessed. Not all slaves were treated badly. They were actually part of the family in many cases...some of them didnt want to leave the plantations when they were freed.But thank God...good white men like Lincoln and the many many white and black men died to help them. Wow....what a sacrifice. I wonder if people would do that today? Or would they only push for their own race and not for Americans as a whole? I wonder?
THE DRAFT: Instead of the draft....the liberal...both dems and reps are trying to make us into a HOPELESS SOCIALIST NATION...that way many many young Americans will join the service due to no other choices. Kinda like a draft dont cha think? ITS A PLOT.
NATIVE AMERICANS: Again....the laws have changed...thank God. In fact...the Native Americans are far more richer than most of us. WHAT A BLESSING FOR THEM.
STRANGER: You are a product of the "Hate America" crowd. You have been educated by the liberal system that has been created to bring America down. You are just another 'USEFUL IDIOT" I belive they call your type. Fight for you country instead of wrecking your own house.
So in essence.... there were some wrongs in the "good ole days", but the society as a whole was a whole lot healthier. You didnt have 3rd generation welfare drug users...so much dishonesty...cause when your your own God...you just make the rules up as you go. But as a whole,,,,the nation is not better. When God was taken away out of the schools,,,everthing started going down hill. No morality...no concience...division. A house divided will not stand. We are much too divided here with the hugh influx of immigrants unwilling to become American...(then why did you come here if your own country is so great?) Racial divisions...that some like Jessie Jackson and Sharpton need to keep the divide going so they can live their lavish lifestyle. I think Bill Cosby is a much better role model than them. He is awesome. What he says makes sense.
Yes what you say is correct.....I believe our so called "leaders" have bought into this Global Community crap and they are ruining our lives with their crappy VISION. By the way....Stranger in the House....what are you doing to make your country better? Have you written your congressman,,your president..or do you sit in your armchair and just complain. Do you ever vote? Just what do you do for your country.
ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU....BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY....
Weve keep letting the foxes guard the hen house. Use your internet....pass acurate information. Do something to better your country. There are many many wonderful Americans doing this as we speak. They are at least trying. Reps and Dems are uniting against the "parties" as they are all corrupt these days. DARK DAYS IN AMERICA. IT IS DEFINATELY NOT GETTING BETTER BUT MUCH MUCH WORSE!!!
Wake up and smell the coffee friend.
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 4:07:13 AM |
Most if not all of the educational institutions were Christian
That is simply not true! Public schools in the United States began in the 1700's and were country wide in the 1800's.
Most if not all of the scientist that you list are European. Public schools in the US had a lot of religion ingrained in them. Also look at most of the colleges back then, most had a religious beginning. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 4:17:10 AM | | just em: Actually some new unreleased writings by Einstein were recently uncovered that showed his disdain for religion. He actually said that belief in god was a childish superstition. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 4:52:17 AM | This thread asked specifically about why some women want men who have God in their lives. Yet, this thread and all others that introduce the concept of religion always attract droves of people determined to discredit religion and in particular, Christianity.
In the words of our second President, John Adams, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the governance of any other." For those of you that are not familiar with US history, that religion that he speaks about is Christianity. For about three decades now, our universities and public K through 12 schools have attempted to cut off future generations of Americans from their own history, choosing instead to emphasize 'multiculturalism' and the importance of 'diversity.' Over this period of time a new state-sponsored religion of “secular humanism” has replaced America's traditional Christianity. We now have 'ethics' being 'preached' by counselors, English teachers, and others in our nation's high schools all in the name of values clarification. We now have 'ethics' being 'preached' by professors in English, Literature, History, Economics, Business, Biology, and other you-name-it curricula on our nation's campuses. All taught by the New Age 'preachers' and 'priests' with PhDs in 'ethics,' behavioral science, or psychology. America is rapidly losing the foundation on which our constitutional republic stands. The news media adds to all of this by only running negative stories about Christians with never a mention of all of the wonderful things this loving and giving group provides to our nation on a daily basis. The last time any movie portrayed a Catholic priest or a Christian minister as good people were way back in the days of Bing Crosby. If any of these leaders of the church are shown in movies they are either child molesters or con men.
The very essence of Christianity is what allows your freedom because Christians are very tolerant of others and they are also very forgiving of others. (Christians certainly are not portrayed like that but that is how the vast majority of them are.) Freedom evaporates within countries without God, like the old Soviet Union or Communist China. Do you think you would have the same freedoms that you enjoy now in a Moslem country? You make fun and belittle those very people that have allowed you to be just as you are.
I also see a lot of negativity for Christians coming from extremely poorly educated self-proclaimed scientists. My whole career has been in the medical and scientific world and as one studies deeper into virtually any scientific study eventually one reaches the point where the world “phenomenon” always arises. Science these days provides more data than any actual answers to the really important aspects of life. One just has to look up at the stars at night to realize just how much science just doesn’t know the answers. A while ago I was in a desolate valley miles away from any town or city. All of a sudden the hairs stood up on the back of my neck and I had this uncanny feeling that I was being watched. So, I turned around and miles away in the distance up on a ridge I saw someone looking down at me. Was that just a fluke and I turned around just by chance? Does science have any explanation for that very real feeling that I had that someone was looking at me? My point here is that there absolutely are things that we do not understand that very much do exist and they exist without any scientific proof that they exist weather you like it or not. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:07:35 AM |
musicianfriend's posts, among others but esecially:
Use your internet....pass acurate information. Do something to better your country.
As an issue, Church-State separation is one of interest to me. I have used my intertubes to look into this before. I am continually amazed, astounded and sometime, yes shocked by the misinformed ignorance about the United States that pervades the public in the United States. So in the interest of accurate information, I feel compelled to rebut one who repeats the Savage idea that Liberalism is a mental disorder and then quotes the most proudly liberal President to support their position.
There are so many nuggets of disinformation in those posts I'm a little overwhelmed about where to begin a rebuttal. The founding fathers were not atheists, but were mainly deists who believed there was a God or Creator or Great Architect, to put it in Masonic terminology. However they were also painfully aware of what happens to a country under a government sponsored religion. Without going into specifics, the history of State religions and the detrimental effects they had on the welfare of nations is long and storied and recognized by most of the founders. If you do the research, you can observe the steady insinuation of Christianity into the U.S. Government by those I've begun to affectionately call the talibornagain.
God is never mentioned in the Constitution of the United States. Technically, God is not mentioned in the Declaration of independence except in the form of 'The Creator.'
The continental dollar of the Revolutionary War, was designed by Benjamin Franklin in 1776:The mottos on this coin are "Mind Your Business" and "We Are One."
The Tripoli Treaty of 1797 - States unequivocally the US is not a Christian Nation:
ARTICLE 11.
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of
enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as
the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility
against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no
pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an
interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
---
This document was endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and
President John Adams. It was then sent to the Senate for ratification;
the vote was unanimous. It is worth pointing out that although this
was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it
was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate's history. There is no
record of debate or dissent. The text of the treaty was printed in
full in the Philadelphia Gazette and in two New York papers, but there
were no screams of outrage, as one might expect today."
THE WHOLE ARTICLE: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen
This is confirmed by at least 2 of the Founders. Now remember this one later:
Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress
consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of
religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in
the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an
establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains
establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to
be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them,
and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not
involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a
provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of
the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by
Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation? -- Madison In "Essay on Monopolies,"
Moving right along now... to Jefferson:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. - Thomas Jefferson 1/1/1802
In 1837 Congress passed an Act that specified which mottos and phrases
were allowed to be printed on currency; this included the national
motto, "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many One). The motto was not
required however.
And then the shit storm starts:
* In 1860, during the Civil War, Protestant denominations organize the 'National Reform Association', which aimed to amend the Constitution to "declare the nation's allegiance to Jesus Christ."
* In 1861, Rev. M. R. Watkinson writes Salmon P. Chase, the Secretary of the Treasury, a letter suggesting "the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins". He suggests "God, Liberty, Law" as a motto on a "beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object".
* In 1864, Congress approves "In God We Trust" for use on one-cent and two-cent coins.
* In 1865, Congress acts to place the motto on all coins.
In 1865, with the conclusion of the Civil War, a new Act was passed by Congress to allow the addition of the phrase "In God We Trust" to currency. "In God We Trust" was still not the national motto at this point and was not used on all money. It was simply allowed to be used on coins, and was used mostly on small denomination coins along with the national motto, "E Pluribus Unum."
Round one: Talibornagain.
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 it read:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I like that, simple and to the point.
When the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 "In God We Trust" remained absent from paper currency.
In the 1950s Congress changed the national motto from "E Pluribus
Unum" to "In God We Trust" (which is how “In God We Trust”
became required to be printed of federal money), "So help me God" was
added to federal oaths (despite the fact that the Christian Bible
clearly states not to swear by God or any other person, place, or
thing when taking an oath. Matthew 5:33-37, James 5:12), and "under
God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance.
This was also about the time the Presidential Prayer Breakfast started.
* In 1957, the motto is first used on paper money.
* On July 30, 1956, a bill is passed by congress and signed by the president declaring "In God We Trust" the national motto of the United States.
Round two: Talibornagain.
John F. Kennedy September 12, 1960, address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association:
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
Clearly, some people still 'get it.'
* In 1970, The constitutionality of the motto is challenged (Aronow v. United States). The Circuit court determined it "has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion".
* In 1979, Madalyn Murray O'Hair of American Atheists challenges the motto (O'Hair v. Blumenthal). The circuit court ruled "the slogan was secular".
* In 1994, The Freedom From Religion Foundation challenged the motto citing it's survey that showed a majority of Americans consider the motto religious. lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial
On September 4, 2002 Michael Newdow was a guest on the popular FOX program Hannity & Colmes. On this program Mr. Newdow stated that he felt that Congressional Chaplains violated the Separation of Church and State. Sean Hannity responded by saying:
"Who hired the first chaplain for congress? ...James Madison in 1789. Did you know that?"
You want to refer to some liberal activist judge..., that's fine, but I'm going to go directly to the source. The author of the Bill of Rights hired the first chaplain in 1789, and I gotta' tell ya' somethin', I think the author of the Bill of Rights knows more about the original intent--no offense to you and your liberal atheist activism--knows more about it than you do."
Which would bring us back to that paragraph, where Madison Himself admits the Chaplin is a violation of Church-State separation.
But, sadly it's come to this:
The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004, introduced into both houses
of Congress on February 11, 2004, "includes the acknowledgment of God
as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of
executing his office."
And with this quote from CNN on March 24, 2004:
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said there "are so many references to God" in public affairs, noting "In God We Trust" was on U-S currency and coins. She added the Supreme Court opens all its public sessions with the words, "God save the United States and this honorable Court.”
We can expect no help from the Courts with a problem so clearly subversive of the Constitution.
Sad, isn't it? I mean how well versed our public speakers and even former Supreme Court Justices are on the issue? I mean it's like calling a Wiccan a Satanist.
Consider the current disproportionate influence of the students of a preacher named Rushdooney (check out theocracywatch.org) have on federal policy, consider the Christian influence on the Officer Corps of at least the USAF, check out this pdf report: http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/MRFF%20Compliance%20Report%2012%2011%2006.pdf
So, to agree with at least one thing you said, there are indeed darks days coming. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:31:35 AM | | Since I am a spiritual person myself, I only respond to profiles that state the person is a Christian like I am. If someone non-religious sends me messages, I usually thank them, but I move on. If you don't want to be with a believer, you should just study the profiles a little better, and go from there. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:39:12 AM | Thread like this go on forever....... redundancy at its finest...... and eventually it will fade and fizzle out.......... and then a month from now someone will make another post about religion and dating and the subject will start alllllllll over again......... and once again the zealots come on with their 3 mile long posts and the whole pitiful saga continues.......
What I find ironic is I put non religious in my profile and I get responses from women who are the complete opposite. I would hope and imagine that these religious women who contact me have truly exercised: judge not and ye shall not be judged....... and it is these limited few who have my respect AND admiration.....whatever their beliefs may be......
Now for petes sake people.... may I respectfully suggest keeping the damn posts to a maximum of 3 paragraphs or so. Do you really think everyone here wants to read an entire book about YOUR particular feelings ? Be brief...paraphrase....condense.....short n sweet ya know.
Peace | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:52:21 AM |
Now for petes sake people.... may I respectfully suggest keeping the damn posts to a maximum of 3 paragraphs or so. Do you really think everyone here wants to read an entire book about YOUR particular feelings ? Be brief...paraphrase....condense.....short n sweet ya know.
Hey, I apologize if I hijacked the thread. That was condensed, and while my feelings are interjected, the majority of that long post is history and documented. I will not apologize that it is also my belief that the notion that the US is founded in Christianity should never go unchallenged. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 10:38:04 AM | | Warmth: Christians are tolerant??!! What planet do you live on? There may be a few acts of kindness here and there but I don't see the crusades, the inquisitions, burning "witches" at the stake, the dark ages and the general lack of tolerance for other races and cultures (due to the whole pompous nature of religion) very "tolerant" in my eyes. If these are signs of god's tender christian side then I think I'll pass. If I did believe, I'd pray to go to hell because heaven seems to be full of some very scary people. Even if they will "tolerate" those that are different they're usually trying to convert you or make you feel guilty for not being as "great" as they are. I've experienced this from about 90% of christians I've ever met so to say otherwise is a bold faced lie and utter garbage. To say it's more tolerant than other religions is true to some extent but that isn't saying much considering almost every religion on earth is about domination and violence. | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 10:43:15 AM |
That's called "preaching". Some people have nothing to say, so they just ramble. I personally just SKIP anything that is that long, because I KNOW it is just filled with stuff that is irrelevant and off-point.
AMEN .............. oops................ I mean Right On.
Peace | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:03:39 AM | @hootinholler
You took far more time than I would have to dig up the relevant historical details. As I said a few posts ago, the process of enlightenment is a painfully slow one and needs to be approached delicately, so as not to enrage the sensibilities of the religious. Claims that the thread is "christianity bashing" were already being thrown before any one did any such thing. "bashing" in their minds is providing any evidence contrary to their belief and that simply isn't the definition of the word. As for the evidence raised in opposition to the "faith" statements, that applies to all religion not just Christianity. It should be clear to any rational person that if their particular God is alive, then all others are dead and that will come as a surprise to the remaining population of this planet who collectively believe more in those "dead" God(s) then your "living" Christian one. So that begs a deep and obvious question of why they would be so lucky? All of this without even going into the fact that the Abrahamic God has no archeological evidence to date it beyond 3,500 to 4,000 years ago. Yet other God(s) go back much further, was their God on vacation for all of the previous 150,000 years of modern Man? Again, any rational person who researches these facts will chose the bold and obvious conclusion, that God(s) are human inventions. Then there are the corroborating facts of geographic migration linked to the emergence of Gods, the connection between various Gods and astronomy, the role that religion plays in the formation of early societies. The data is voluminous but how many here have read in so many sources, only a few and I'd venture to say they aren't the religious ones. The ignorance of the early formation of American government shown here is amazing indeed. As I stated earlier most of it stems from the lack of a desire to actually go do the leg work that you took great pains to perform in that excellent post of yours. They are satisfied by bite size chunks compiled out of context from great scientists that didn't have theistic beliefs , or taken from other online sources with religious agendas. The fear I have, which seems to be born out by subsequent responses is that people who have their agenda fixed will simply look at your screen name, determine you are "the bad one" and simply not read the information you've provided without malice or nefarious intention. This highlights a pernicious capability that "faith" based ignorance holds in exclusive possession, that is the ability to filter information on the basis of the belief, since belief supersedes evidence in their minds there is no need to analyze what does not conform to the belief. This is the largest mountain to climb and some will never over come it, either because they are incapable or unwilling or both. I am proud to say that I overcame "faith", I no longer believe blindly because the preponderance of the evidence that I have diligently researched over the years is in opposition to those early beliefs. My life is fuller, happier and more meaningful now then it ever felt when I had "faith".
I for one thank you for taking the time to rebut all the false claims of Christianity in the foundation of our government that have been expounded here by many with great confidence but zero evidence. I think this thread has jumped the shark , I won't be responding to any more posts.
Regards, | |
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| Why Do So Many Women Require That I Must Love God?
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:20:41 AM | MyT: Thanks for that. Jumped the shark? Why Goodwin's hasn't been reached yet  Oh, thanks for noticing that I didn't bring my religious beliefs into the discussion.
The majority of the research was done back in 2004 in an effort to understand where the faith based history came from. | |
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