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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:04:50 AM | | You bring up a good point. As small cars populate the highways, increased insurance risks will be passed on to everyone, the net effect will be higher policyholder premiums traded off for lower spending on fuel. Only 2 states have unlimited liability for personal injury, I live in one of them. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe it isn't. I do like my F250. I don't like the 38 gallon fuel tank. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:21:56 AM | As long as people have boats and trailers to pull the big SUVs will survive. However....the familis that have these things that don't use them to pull trailers might get rid of them.
I drive a truck...I use it for work and tow my boat with it. Nothing smaller will work. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:22:53 AM | I agree with you there but driver error is the main cluprit. Stop driving so closely behind them.
I've never been involved in an accident. *knocks on wood*
But what I do hate, though, is:
a) Being behind a SUV and cannot see in front of me. It doesn't matter how close I am... I still cannot see. For example, if the road is straight, it wouldn't matter. I wouldn't be able to see ahead. BTW, it has nothing to do with my vision, cuz I just got it tested and apparently, this old broad has better than 20/20 vision. Nice to know something is working better than it should, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
b) When at an intersection, trying to make a left/right hand turn, I hate it when an SUV is trying to do the same on the other side. It makes it so much more difficult to see the oncoming traffic.
c) It makes it more difficult for other drivers to see traffic. More than once, my little sedan was almost dinged because a SUV was "hiding" me, giving the other driver false security in thinking his/her path was clear.
So, this is why I dislike SUVs. Sure, you can't get a more comfortable ride taking you to and from the store, but sometimes safety should be more important, no?
Based-on the above, I hope it clarifies my earlier statement, and makes you see that no, it has nothing to do with tailgating. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:33:13 AM |
The oil sands in Canada alone contain more oil than Saudi Arabia. Now that oil is above $100.00 a barrel, it's become profitable to start extracting it and it will be. Oil is finite but government restrictions along with enviromental concerns are the bigger culprit right now rather than peak oil. It's around but it's going to be more expensive to get at it.
Not that long ago, the Alberta oil sands were considered a garbage source of oil. Now, because; a) the demand has gotten much higher and; b) there hasn't been a new source of oil found in about 30 years and others are quickly drying up; they are considered "gold." But truly, the term should be "slim pickins." It take so much energy to convert this sand into oil, it's almost not worth the effort.
And sure, you can dig up the most pristine parts of the world and leave an environmental disaster in it's wake. For what? A measly and paltry amount of oil that would be a drop in the bucket compared to what we are used to. Drilling ANWR would not put any dent into the price of oil at the rate we're consuming. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:40:07 AM | Hopefully GM, Ford and Chrysler can get back to making great cars again,
GM has started with the Cadi CTS, and Pontiac G8
Ford and Chrysler will follow suit.
The 300C looks great. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 12:59:45 PM | | I like the Challenger too, it looks even better than the original. A V8 will be the only choice for this car. Ford is still working on another V8 for the Mustang. Both cars should launch right around the same time $8 gas hits. In either case, the justification will come to not "road" the car, but for the owner to buy a trailer, put the car on it, and buy a F350 dual rear wheel 4x4 truck, extended cab, 4:10 gear, V10, and manual 6 spd, and tow the rig up and down the Woodward Dream Cruise all day long filling his 38 gal tank twice and supporting the economy by expending his Federal tax incentive bonus. This way, money is pumped back into the economy to support the oil company Research and Development programs and provide incentive for top notch executives to use at a later date when no one's looking. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:09:46 PM |
Being behind a SUV and cannot see in front of me. It doesn't matter how close I am... I still cannot see. For example, if the road is straight, it wouldn't matter. I wouldn't be able to see ahead.
You can in the majority of those situations you just need to offset your vehicle a little. If you follow slightly to the left of SUV in front you will be able to see what's ahead of the SUV. It's no different than following a big Semi just have a little patience.
When at an intersection, trying to make a left/right hand turn, I hate it when an SUV is trying to do the same on the other side. It makes it so much more difficult to see the oncoming traffic.
Again patience is the key...
It makes it more difficult for other drivers to see traffic. More than once, my little sedan was almost dinged because a SUV was "hiding" me, giving the other driver false security in thinking his/her path was clear.
No, it's a lack of patience and not being observant...
I know this may sound like I'm being critically of you but I'm really not. You sound like a driver who does very well behind the wheel. Just work on techniques that will allow you to see better and practice on having better patience. It's far better to set through another light than get T-boned and spend a month in the Hospital... | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:19:27 PM |
Both cars should launch right around the same time $8 gas hits. In either case, the justification will come to not "road" the car, but for the owner to buy a trailer, put the car on it, and buy a F350 dual rear wheel 4x4 truck, extended cab, 4:10 gear, V10, and manual 6 spd, and tow the rig up and down the Woodward Dream Cruise all day long filling his 38 gal tank twice
LOL, yea I'm sure a few will do that? However, I guess it's no secret what we think of trailer queens? Not to be viewed entirely as an insult as anyone can appreciate someone not driving a very rare vehicle, but anyone who would put one of those new vehicles on a trailer needs their head examined.
CAFE standards are going to quickly kill off all new muscle cars made by the "Big Three" except the Vette and Viper. It's not much different than the early 1970's... | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:35:54 PM | CAFE will kill muscle. Only the financially well-endowed will afford real muscle. Just think of what impact this will have on Summit Racing and Jegs for performance parts.
Fuel touches everything we do. Including eat. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:05:21 PM | There are proven methods to improve fuel economy.
Drive slower. Keep speeds under 55 mph.
Reduce weight.
Use of lighter materials, like aluminum and composites replacing steel as the primary structural material; or making vehicles smaller.
Better aerodynamics.
Aerodynamic drag becomes significant over about 50 mph for most motor vehicles (which is an importat reason why the 55 mph speed limit saves gas). The most efficient shape for moving through the air is rounded at the front, tapered at the tail- a teardrop shape. The most likely candidate for teardrop styling is- the pickup truck.
Yes, the pickup truck- with a pointy front end like the first gen Pontiac Trans Sport, and a bed cap that slopes down from the top of the rear of the cab to the tailgate, to make a "Kamm tail." I'm amazed more guys haven't figured this out; the bed cap would be more effective than the front mods, and cheap to do (as in, a trip to the lumber yard and a couple hours sawing and assembling). Add an air dam and side skirts and you're 90% there.
Alternative engines-
Raw power is really only needed for acceleration, at cruise only enough power is needed to overcome road friction and aero drag. Smaller engines with turbos are more efficient than those big V8s. They're efficient at cruise and at slow speeds but have the power for bursts of acceleration.
Miller cycle engines are up to 15% more efficient, giving the same power for less fuel consumption. Basically this consists of adding a positive-displacement supercharger and cam timing changes to a smaller engine engine to do the same job.
Clean diesels are coming, and diesels make a lot more sense for use as hybrids.
If Bubba demands a 30+ mpg suburban, GM may build it; Toyota will, for sure. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:08:16 PM |
CAFE will kill muscle. Only the financially well-endowed will afford real muscle. Just think of what impact this will have on Summit Racing and Jegs for performance parts
Nah. Think "Turbo Cobalt." Gas-stingy 1600cc 4-banger mated to a big 2-stage turbo. Make mine blue with a wide white stripe. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 5:09:41 PM |
Nah. Think "Turbo Cobalt." Gas-stingy 1600cc 4-banger mated to a big 2-stage turbo. Make mine blue with a wide white stripe.
Nice starter car but when you want to play with the big boys you need something with more spirit...If you want a killer twisty car then finding one of those old Nissian (Datsun) 240z or 280Z made in the 70's and swap out the engine with a Buick 3.8L 90 degree V-6 (better known as the Buick Grand National block) with an upgraded turbo and you will own the roads. It's light weight has a good balance ratio, has sufficent low end power and great upper band power. A few suspension mods and the best of the best out there made will do well to just keep up... Plus it still gets great gas mileage and it doesn't sound like bees trapped in a coffee can.
Yes, SUV's have their place and there will always be a need for such vehicles. It's just that most people don't need them. It's amazing the deals the dealerships are offering on those things these days. They aren't selling and are cutting prices drastically. The sad part is those who bought those things a year ago are getting little to nothing as a trade in... Used car lots don't won't the things they know they can't sell them... it does remind me of the early 70's & 80's when used muscle cars could be bought for a few hundred dollars. Now the things are going for 30,000 and even in the 100,000-300,000 range for exceptionally rare models.
I do believe a SUV could be improved upon it will never be as efficent as a car simply due to it's weight and areodynamics. However, theres no reason why an engine management system couldn't increase it's fuel mileage. Most SUV's are not 4X4's so if they are not needed for their off road ability why have it? Yea maybe those who live in the extreme north or mountians areas where there's lots of snow year round have good reason to own such vehicles. What's everyone elses excuse? | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 5:10:54 PM | Just as real cars are coming back like the Challenger, Pontiac G8, Mustang and 300c here come the bullshite rules.
The cobalt is ugly and not as good as the competition.
Problem is Americans dont want to pay for cars, happy to buy dross. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:19:09 PM | I like SUVs and pickups, I do not know why people hate them so much, aside from the fact that they're "material excess" or a "penis extension."
IMO, the fact that someone chooses to drive a big gas-guzzler when there are much smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles on the road should be no one's business.
And do not get into the habit of thinking only insecure men need big vehicles; yeah some do, but some of us just LIKE them a lot! I love big trucks and SUVs, it has nothing to do with penis extension.
Also, I find them a lot more convenient. I hate small cars, except for sports cars. Otherwise, give me a big SUV or pickup any day. They are a lot more roomy, comfortable, have a higher, more commanding view of the road, are safer, can carry lots more stuff, hit a large bump and not have you worry if the wheel got knocked lose, drive in tougher weather or road conditions, etc...and I am a fit guy, so the "Only fat, overweight people need SUVs because of their big size" doesn't fly with me.
As for "material excess," I do not know why people are so much against this. I can see being upset if there's say like a water shortage in your area, and some rich guy moves in and builds some huge mansion or estate with sprinklers running all day, sucking up all the water, that kind of material excess is bad, but it seems like regarding big vehicles, people act as if you should drive the smallest, most minimalist little car you can, and that driving some big SUV is like a sin of all sins.
Some people just seem to go truly out of their mind over the sight of one person driving a vehicle that could carry seven or eight people. SUVs and pickup trucks are not buses. They're big, but not THAT big. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 10:15:56 PM |
I like SUVs and pickups, I do not know why people hate them so much
Gas approaching $4 a gallon, it's an obvious display of arrogant selfishness.
IMO, the fact that someone chooses to drive a big gas-guzzler when there are much smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles on the road should be no one's business.
Again, $4 gas, wasting gas becomes everybody's business.
I love big trucks and SUVs, it has nothing to do with penis extension.
It has nothing to do with practicality, and everything to do with "image" and "ego." The comparison with penis extension is appropriate.
As for "material excess," I do not know why people are so much against this
Wasting gas is exactly like some jack@zz rich guy buying up all the water during a water shortage and watering his lawn.
Watch your speed, I suspect those SUVs and large pickups are going to be especially targeted by radar cops this summer. | |
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timj82
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Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 41 | |
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/9/2008 10:53:43 PM | I drive a car that gets 40mpg
whenever I need to haul something I go to Menards and rent a pickup for 75 minutes and unlimited mileage and I don't pay for the gas for the truck. All for $20.00.
I'd rather save my money then give it to Chavez in Venezuela. Guess that makes me a dork. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:14:57 AM | Thanks for the driving tips, topgear1, they will sure help me deal with having to drive on the same road as SUVs. Amazing how you've turned it to where I am the one that has to "change" to accomodate SUV drivers. *rolls eyes*
I am a patient driver. Yet when I drive behind a SUV, I cannot see ahead unless going around a bend.
Here's an interesting article:
Thanks mainly to modern brake, suspension, tire and safety technologies, the overall accident rate is pretty stable at between 6 and 7 million reported crashes per year, which is still a significant percentage of the total passenger vehicle (cars, SUVs, minivans, pickup trucks) population of 130 million. In terms of fatalities per vehicle miles driven, the rate is way down from that in the 1960s, when 5.1 persons were killed per 100 million miles. Today that rate is 1.5 per 100 million miles, which means that vehicles and roads, not drivers, are much safer.
This improvement closely matches dramatic improvements in tires and brakes in the late 1970s, along with increased use of safety belts and great improvements in highway design. It is not due to any improvement in driver skills! Today's drivers are far less technically skilled than those of decades past! Very few drivers understand vehicle dynamics, braking distances and much beyond the basic operation of a vehicle. Fewer still even know how to parallel park! That's just the way it is.
Where things get interesting is in the crash data of cars vs SUVs. Total crashes (highway) for cars have gone down by nearly 1 million (from 5.7 million in 1990 to 4.5 million last year) while light truck crashes have risen 1.3 million in the same period (from 2.1 in 1990 to 3.4 million last year). Since we know from insurance company data that SUVs are involved in more collisions relative to their population than passenger cars, it's no surprise that these numbers are what they are.
What these numbers represent, however is a fact contrary to one of the essential "justifications" of SUV ownership; that the buyer bought it for safety considerations. While an SUV might be safer if hit by another vehicle, it's far, far more likely to hit something!
Besides that, SUVs cause accidents. Their very structure (height and width) blocks visibility for vehicles nearby. Being behind one on the highway means that the driver must move out of the lane to see what's ahead, not to mention leave enough space behind the SUV in the event of an emergency (try doing this in today's traffic!)
The number of fender-benders in parking lots has exploded in the past ten years. Why? Well, in pre-SUV days you would be parked next to other cars. When backing out of a space you could see through all the windows and easily clear the area before moving. Now you can't see anything from the sides of your car and have to gently back out until you clear the side of the SUV or minivan enough to see what's coming. More often than not, another vehicle is coming and one of you has to react. The situations where the reaction is too late have exponentially increased, hence more fender-benders.
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/687.cfm | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:56:36 AM | Damn Ottawa, you really hate them don't you? You don't have to convince most people and I don't like driving behind them myself, but there's nothing you or I can do about it. The rising gas prices will take a lot of them off the road but don't get your hopes up too high. They'll still be around.
And you're right about the oil sands as well. But as I pointed out, now that the cost of a barrel of oil is where it is, it's profitable to start extracting from there. As far as detroying the enviroment goes, technology should come on line one of these days to make it a little bit cleaner than what it is today. The oil in ANWR won't be left there to sit for all eternity nor should it be. And it has nothing to do with any so called effect on price reduction it will have on the market but that a useable resource is there and should be used.
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:09:18 AM |
Thanks for the driving tips, topgear1, they will sure help me deal with having to drive on the same road as SUVs. Amazing how you've turned it to where I am the one that has to "change" to accomodate SUV drivers. *rolls eyes*
LOL, Sorry I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I was just being realistic with you, that you're never going to make SUV's go away or Big Semi-Trucks... So, you have to accomidate your driving style to deal with these minor discomforts in life. Yes, you and we all have to accomidate since we share the same roads. As much as that SUV blocks your view so does that Semi-Truck block that SUV's view.
Today's drivers are far less technically skilled than those of decades past! Very few drivers understand vehicle dynamics, braking distances and much beyond the basic operation of a vehicle. Fewer still even know how to parallel park! That's just the way it is.
That is so very true! Most people out there haven't the slightest clue how to operate a vehicle safely.
Where things get interesting is in the crash data of cars vs SUVs. Total crashes (highway) for cars have gone down by nearly 1 million (from 5.7 million in 1990 to 4.5 million last year) while light truck crashes have risen 1.3 million in the same period (from 2.1 in 1990 to 3.4 million last year). Since we know from insurance company data that SUVs are involved in more collisions relative to their population than passenger cars, it's no surprise that these numbers are what they are.
Sounds like skewed data to me. It doesn't take into account how SUV ownership has increased while car ownership has decreased. It also doesn't state how many of those collisions where SUV against SUV.
leave enough space behind the SUV in the event of an emergency.
That's a given, if your not leaving enough space behind any vehicle regardless if it's a SUV then you're tail gating...
you can't see anything from the sides of your car and have to gently back out until you clear the side of the SUV or minivan enough to see what's coming. More often than not, another vehicle is coming and one of you has to react. The situations where the reaction is too late have exponentially increased, hence more fender-benders.
Driver error... One should never race out into the flow. When any one backs out of a parking space they should do so slowly and cautiously. If a person is not doing this then it's not the vehicle that's parked beside your spaces fault...
As I said before I believe you sound like a very alert driver far superior to most on the highways today. You just need to practice some patience and refrain from blaming other vehicles on the highways. Trust me try riding a motorcycle and your dislike of SUV's pails in comparison to the way car owners control their machines.
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:13:31 AM | | WTF is your problem with people that own SUV's...and no i don't own one and never have...I drive a 1999 toyoto avalon...You people are showing your ignorance...cause accidents,responsible for gas shortage? these statements are truely a joke! There is more oil in the ground in the united states and around it's coast to provide us for hundreds of years and if you don't believe me ask someone in the industry and they'll tell you...I did and you would be surprissed! Stop believing everything you read in the paper and watch on the new's...... | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 10:45:46 AM | Thanks, topgear.
Yes, there have--and always will be--bigger vehicules sharing the road with standard sized cars. What bothers me -- and perhaps I didn't do a good enough job of expressing it -- is that it appears there are A LOT MORE. So there's a lot more crap that a driver has to deal with besides bad, drunk and irresponsible drivers.
As far as the stats go, I think they're still in the making. SUVs are still a recent enough phenomina that we probably won't see any hard stats until the next little while. Though my gut thinks that they are responsible for more accidents, it's only based-on anecdotal evidence (besides the article that I posted).
WTF is your problem with people that own SUV's...and no i don't own one and never have...I drive a 1999 toyoto avalon...You people are showing your ignorance...cause accidents,responsible for gas shortage? these statements are truely a joke! There is more oil in the ground in the united states and around it's coast to provide us for hundreds of years and if you don't believe me ask someone in the industry and they'll tell you...I did and you would be surprissed! Stop believing everything you read in the paper and watch on the new's......
Wow, well aren't you a sweetheart! You aren't Rush Limbaugh, are you?
OK, back up your claim. Please prove to me that there enough oil in the ground in the US to last HUNDREDS of years. From what I've read, I have no seen anything that's remotely close to what you state. So please provide some links and I will read.
Thank you. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:28:38 PM |
If you want a killer twisty car then finding one of those old Nissian (Datsun) 240z or 280Z made in the 70's and swap out the engine with a Buick 3.8L 90 degree V-6 (better known as the Buick Grand National block) with an upgraded turbo and you will own the roads.
Apples and oranges, you're talking about a do-it-yourself, build-it-yourself hot rod, I'm talking production muscle cars. A 250 hp turbo Cobalt would be a good performing production car, able to keep up with a lot of full-size 400 hp "muscle cars." That's the future of the production muscle car, small engine with a big turbo, or a bigger engine with cylinders that shut down for economical cruising ("variable displacement"). Or pick your favorite platform, the days of the big displacement V8s are coming to an end. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:50:04 PM | .
Most of Those 240-260-280... have a hinge in middle .... .... The pan is all rusted away....
Their Hard to hook with a tow truck when they vapor lock (those with carbs) ...
Those's with Computer and Injection....wellllll
You have to be careful when you jack them up to change a tire.... Cause it ate the tire ... can't align with no pan....
Best fix is to back up off about a 6in curb fast .. it will snap that front end back straight.... for a while....
Great cars got to love em | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 4:46:12 AM | | Nah, SUV are not dead the car markers will adjust according to the marketplace, and aerospace materials will start to be incorporated in automotive desgin to bring down the weight of the vehcile by 5% to 20%, then thrown in hybirds, flexfuel and nano-tech you have ugly beast SUV adjust with the times. | |
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| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:44:23 AM |
The number of fender-benders in parking lots has exploded in the past ten years. Why? Well, in pre-SUV days you would be parked next to other cars. When backing out of a space you could see through all the windows and easily clear the area before moving. Now you can't see anything from the sides of your car and have to gently back out until you clear the side of the SUV or minivan enough to see what's coming. More often than not, another vehicle is coming and one of you has to react. The situations where the reaction is too late have exponentially increased, hence more fender-benders.
Back up accidents are considered a fully preventable accident.
The solution is to back up into a parking place and when you are done, you drive forward out of the space. I have lectured people about it and I get nothing but excuses from the majority of them.
I saw a woman one day trying to back up one of these hummers out of a parking space in a grocery store parking lot and she could not do it without some help from store employees. She had NO business driving that vehicle in my PROFESSIONAL opinion. Legally she can, but I feel she was a serious accident waiting to happen. | |
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