|
|
|
|
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:56:20 AM | | SUVs are wasteful, polluting and dangerous...I agree that you cant see over them when behind one...Drivers are often dangerous, cant see you from behind and assume they can run over anyone...I laugh thou when I try to see someone park one in a tight squeeze in a city space or parking lot..I feel sorrry for people at the pumps when I hear or see it costs 50 dollars or more to fill their tank....Ive never paid over 30 to fill my car tank..It was refreshing to go overseas to the UK and not have to deal with many at all... | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:36:28 AM | | This is a good thread ....oil people say we have only used 17% of the earths oil since we started tapping oil, greed/speculators are driving the market not how much your car uses, look what they done to unrefined (desiel) fuel it's higher than refined fuel.....maybe it will take a war to sort it all out, sure hope not, maybe thats what some are wanting, someone is trying to crash out the system, they did it in 29' to bring in the New Deal, why not the New World Order this time, there is a plan..just look at history. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:40:12 AM | | Young lady, I do not get the obsession with trying to outlaw vehicles that help subsidize lazy, unskilled labor. If they can afford it, why do you begrudge them? Like the pro-choicers say....."don't want an abortion?.........don't have one." The same rule applies here....but if you really want to know what has directly contributed to the skyrocketing of oil more than anything else........? That would be the refusal to build additional refineries, and combined with our lack of drilling here in the U. S. There is so much oil in the ground, it is not even funny. By the way, if you truly are offended by SUV's, I take it you use your birkenstocks for transportation? The last time I heard....Al Gore was on his way to pick-up the Nobel Peace Prive, in his private corporate jet, burning tons more oil when he could have flown commerically. Oh, did I mention Gore lives in a palacial estate with about 25 rooms and an average monthly electric bill of $3500-$4000!!! | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:47:32 AM |
That would be the refusal to build additional refineries, and combined with our lack of drilling here in the U. S. There is so much oil in the ground, it is not even funny. By the way, if you truly are offended by SUV's, I take it you use your birkenstocks for transportation? The last time I heard....Al Gore was on his way to pick-up the Nobel Peace Prive, in his private corporate jet, burning tons more oil when he could have flown commerically. Oh, did I mention Gore lives in a palacial estate with about 25 rooms and an average monthly electric bill of $3500-$4000!!!
I don't know where to begin with this!!! There is so much wrong that all I can suggest is that you dig a little more in your research. | |
|
| |
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 10:03:44 AM | For starters:
"There is so much oil in the ground, it is not even funny. "
It's simply not true. If it was, the US not have to import any oil, no? And please, don't point the finger at environmental groups. According to their point of view, there's not enough extractable oil to make it worthwhile. And when one sees the data, one can easily come to the conclusion that they are right.
Consider Bakken, for one:
In the good areas of the Bakken, with higher porosity and lots of fracture permeability, the recovery might range as high as 5% to possibly 15%. Typically only a few areas, or "sweet spots," will have recovery this high. Outside the sweet spots, recoveries are likely to be much lower; the reservoir quality will deteriorate, with lower porosity, lower permeability, and fewer fractures, and/or thinner beds of reservoir rock. In these areas, recovery will probably be less than 5% of the oil in place, and in some areas less than 1%. Estimating recovery factor in shale reservoirs is more an art than a science; only after several years of production, and with very good data, can a reliable range of recovery be estimated.
In the less favorable and thinner areas of the reservoir, even though it might be technically possible to recover 1% or 2% of the oil in place, the risk may be too high to for an operator to be willing to spend $3 to $5 million or more, with no assurance that the well will pay out. In this case the "technically recoverable" reserves might be 1% of oil in place, but the economically recoverable reserves are 0% if an operator is not persuaded to risk capital to drill a well.
Looking at future production another way, the recent peak in production has been 75,000 barrels of oil per day (discussed in more detail below). Even if operators are able to triple this amount, the resulting production of 225,000 barrels a day (which would be a considerable challenge), will amount to only about 1.1% of US oil consumption, assuming the US uses about 20.7 barrels of oil a day, based on EIA data.
If we can reach 225,000 barrels of oil per day, the history of Bakken suggest this level would be short-lived - the peak production will probably last for a year or less - because as we shall see below, total Bakken production can be expected to decline to 50% or less of its peak rate within a few years, because of the steep decline rate of individual wells.
There's more info here:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3868 | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 10:44:04 AM | Not a big fan of SUV's.
I just never saw what their "Purpose" was????
I mean you can't haul chit like an old truck and they slurp gas like crazy.
Plus I just hate them here in Iowa for the simple reason they think since they have 4WD they can fly at 100 mph on ice. Ummmmm its ICE and it doesn't matter how many wheel drive you have. It never fails, on the HWY to work on the first Ice storm of the seasons there are always multiple SUV's in the ditch with their owners calling tow trrucks on cell phones. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:12:37 PM |
Not a big fan of SUV's.
I just never saw what their "Purpose" was???? The purpose was to replace the utilitarian car-based station wagon with a truck-based (and higher margin) vehicle that circumvented the CAFE and safety requirements for cars (also does not require dealers to display the MSRP sticker required on cars); that is, it allowed inefficient companies like GM to make a technically and qualitatively inferior product without any foreign (read that: Japanese) competition; this has recently changed, as many other companies have jumped on the SUV/pickup truck bandwagon (which has GM squawking "unfair!!").
However, that shell game is child's play compared to the massive E85 loophole that allows GM to ignore a vehicle's consumption of ethanol in calculating CAFE numbers- by these massaged numbers, a 10 mpg "FlexFuel" E85- capable vehicle gets 50+ mpg.
...and the lemmings continue to drive into the sea in their air-conditioned, leather-appointed SUVs. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:24:59 PM | I believe, the hybrids are selling fairly well.
Heck before long they will have a clean coal burning SUV.
http://www.hybrid-car.org/hybrid-suvs.html
Got to love those SUVs | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:47:12 PM | I really hope the fuel crisis in American brings an end to huge SUVs.
----------------------------------------------
too funny , there isnt a fuel crisis , well except the one the president is pretending to have seeing as hes heavily entrenched in the oil market and is making billions off the consumer and the bone heads that elected him
as far as suvs go and fuel burners. do u even think or look further than your nose???
how much fuel do u think is burned in a fighter jet or the tanks they send to murder people , how out the rockets that put their spy satellites into orbit or the space stations or a myriad of other real fuel consumers
how many underground fuel holding caves do they have in order to hoard oil and gas until the proice is thru the roof and they sell it all at once, thereby removin the fuel crisis and crashing the fuel market. of course that will be after they pull their money out of the industry of course
an suv isnt even a factor in the big picture | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:13:31 PM | I've read that many many experts think we have already hit peak oil. Alberta's oil sands may be a more viable source now but it does take a lot of energy to extract it and the pollution from it is an even bigger problem.
As for the 20 year cycle idea... keep in mind this time around China and India are described as being ravenous in their appetite for oil. I doubt we'll ever see cheap gas again. If we do in 20 years it will be because other power sources for car will have been improved and be more viable.
You also don't need a big ebgine to go fast. A good 600cc motorcycle will blow the doors off any production muscle car. Chrysler even advertised the 4 cyclinder SRT4 as being as fast as the Viper 0-60.
A small local company here, www.fuelvaporcar.com, has developed a 3 wheel car that uses a 180 hp turbo Honda Civic engine that goes 0-60 as fast as a viper, is electronicaly limited to 140 mph and gets over 90 mpg. More importantly its CO2 emmissions are a fraction of anormal car. The best part is their fuel system can be put on any car so even cars like my Mustang GT can be upgraded to improve their fuel economy and emissions without giving up any power.
Personally I cycle to work, less stress, good exercise, no gas or emissions, no traffic and I get to ride along the river as the sun comes up... pretty sweet!
AJ | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:22:09 PM | | I think the " SUV" craze is finally over. However they will still be a market for them. The folks who actually use such vehicles for that attended purpose(off roding, camping, ext..) will find prices go down while the consumers who allow creative marketing make up their minds rush to the new rave and craze............ | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:29:22 PM |
an suv isnt even a factor in the big picture
From wikipedia:
The United States receives approximately 84% of its energy from fossil fuels. This energy is used both for transport, industry, and domestic use. The remaining portion comes primarily from Hydro and Nuclear stations. Americans constitute less than 5% of the world's population, but consume 26% of the world's energy, although having only 3% of the world’s known oil reserves.
Transportation uses 63% of the oil consumed in the US; US Gasoline Consumption is 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day).
Yes, those SUVs are making a BIG difference. Actual, real-life average fuel economy is something less than 20 mpg, raising that to something like 25 mpg would decrease demand by 20%. That won't happen if GM is allowed to sell vehicles that get less than 10 mpg in actual use.
From the Energy Information Administration, US DOE:
Date Last Updated/Reviewed: July 2007
Next Update/Review: June 2008
Gallons of Oil per Barrel
42
Barrels of Oil per Metric Ton (U.S.)
7.33
U.S. Crude Oil Production
5,102,000 barrels/day
State Ranking of Crude Oil Production Texas - 1,088,000 barrels/day
U.S. Crude Oil Imports
10,118,000 barrels/day
U.S. Crude Oil Imports from OPEC
5,517,000 barrels/day
Top U.S. Crude Oil Supplier
Canada - 1,802,000 barrels/day
U.S. Petroleum Product Imports
3,589,000 barrels/day
U.S. Petroleum Product Imports from OPEC
733,000 barrels/day
U.S. Net Petroleum Imports
12,390,000 barrels/day
Top U.S. Total Petroleum Supplier
Canada - 2,353,000 barrels/day
Top Oil Producing Countries & Exporters
#1 - Saudi Arabia
Top Oil Consuming Countries & Importers
#1 - United States
U.S. Total Petroleum Exports
1,317,000 barrels/day
U.S. Petroleum Consumption
20,687,000 barrels/day
Dependence on Net Petroleum Imports (2007)
58.2%
Crude Oil Domestic First Price (2007 wellhead price)
$66.52/barrel
Motor Gasoline Retail Prices (2007 U.S. City Average)
$2.85/gallon
Regular Grade Motor Gasoline Retail Prices (2007 U.S. City Average)
$2.80/gallon
Premium Motor Gasoline Retail Prices (2007 U.S. City Average)
$3.03/gallon
Federal Motor Gasoline Tax
18.4 cents/gallon
U.S. Motor Gasoline Consumption
9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day)
Share of US Oil Consumption for Transportation
69%
U.S. Average Home Heating Oil Price
$2.37/gallon (excluding taxes)
Number of U.S. Operable Petroleum Refineries
149
U.S. Refiners Ranked Capacity (1/1/2006) #1 - Baytown, Texas (ExxonMobil) 562,500 barrels/day
Top U.S. Petroleum Refining States #1 - Texas 4,337,026 barrels/day
U.S. Proved Reserves of Crude Oil as of December 31, 2006
20,972 million barrels
Top U.S. Oil Fields (2005)
Prudhoe Bay, AK
Top U.S. Producing Companies (2006)
BP - 827,000 barrels/day
U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve
689 million barrels
Total World Oil Production (2005)
82,532,000 barrels/day
Total World Petroleum Consumption (2005)
83,607,000 barrels/day | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:32:28 PM |
The folks who actually use such vehicles for that attended purpose(off roding, camping, ext..) will find prices go down Probably not. As production goes down, cost per unit will rise. They're relatively cheap now only because they make so many of them. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:08:21 AM | Earlier post, SUV are ugly but people should have the choice of buying an SUV along as it meets DOT standards for driving on the road. The market determines who buys SUVs, and the automakers will still produce them if thier is demand for them. Cynical people think SUV will die if fuel costs $6.00 a gallon. The ansewer is no? Why, because the automakers will reduce the weight with never materials and technology that come online overtime. Also, investment in green energies is good subidise it, but do not penalize oil companies doing what shareholders ask them to do, "Make money for the shareholders?" Who, are these shareholders for these greedy oil companies? It is pension funds, municpalities, senior citizens with 401k's.
Some Democrats gotta think things thru before throwing down the windfall oil tax on the companies. The tax will hit the working peeps on the street delivering goods for a living, and average person fueling up thier cars. Also, CAFE standards will put autoworkers out of work because the manufactuers will have to lay them off while they retool the factory to make those hybirds. Thier is secodary economic factors never discussed by Democrats nor the Republicans. Truth is innovation of technology lowers costs the market will do its job, and does not need goverment breaucarts designing cars. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:22:11 AM | In fact if consumers in the US were capable of making rational, responsible decisions, there would be no alcoholism or drug abuse, traffic cops would write very few speeding tickets, and obesity wouldn't be a major health concern in the US.
Small wonder that a person who can't control what he puts in his mouth would make poor decisions about what kind of vehicle he really needs. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:38:32 PM | The United States receives approximately 84% of its energy from fossil fuels. This energy is used both for transport, industry, and domestic use. The remaining portion comes primarily from Hydro and Nuclear stations. Americans constitute less than 5% of the world's population, but consume 26% of the world's energy, although having only 3% of the world’s known oil reserves.
Leave it to a socialist/leftist to mention how we use proprtionately a higher % of oil than most other nations. Too damn bad...we also HELP FEED NEARLY THE ENTIRE PLANET VIA OUR OWN PRODUCE and/or the TECHNOLOGY, the world over.
All of those SUV's and their high pricetags help unskilled labor live the "life of Riley."
When you factor in what GM pays many in benefits converted in a dollar amount, is there any wonder why the auto industry is taking a huge hit? When GM and others fork out approximately $70 per man hour in wages and benefits, especially towards people who are not in a skilled trade, the unions should thank their lucky stars people can afford those pricey vehicles.. How does the left thank Mr. & Mrs. Joe Six-Pack.........BY TRYING TO INTIMIDATE THEM FROM DRIVING A VEHICLE THAT HELPED SUBSIDIZE THEIR WAGES. A highly sophisticated robot with a convenient seat and virtually no applied pressure helps drive up the price of vehicles, while union members flood to the polls to spit on the people that help keep them employed by buying their products.
Fossil fuels, from the dinosaurs...in the ground.....NOT GOING ANYWHERE. USE IT. Meanwhile Al Gore flies around in his "Gulfstream II" private jet and the left sings his praises. Oh Yea..........................suckers!!!
As a footnote, just curious.....did you notice how the evil mean, greedy U. S. that uses so much of the oil in the ground, was offering aid to the former Burma as soon as possible? I am sure you failed to mention that tidbit. Additionally, if you are truly so concerned about the environment, how and why is it that the world's most populated country need NOT comply with the KYOTO TREATY? Oh, Yea..................SUCKERS!!! | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:27:21 PM | Actually, I'm a fiscal conservative. I've also been involved in "conservation" since the 1950s.
Try reading some of my comments. I haven't suggested an kind of "leftist liberal" actions, like crucifying investors or nationalizing oil companies (both "leftist liberal" sentiments). I have in fact attempted to explain how markets work, and I've made reasonable suggestions how we might be able to weather the current price spike.
The present mess is directly attributable to the government's attempts to skew market conditions to favor political contributors- something I am diametrically opposed to. I don't believe in tax breaks for the rich, in fact I like the FairTax concept (which includes a generous "prebate" that primarily benefits working-class earners) of a universal Federal tax on consumption, not income.
What I earn should be mine, until I spend it, and if I spend it foolishly and lavishly I should be taxed appropriately. If I choose to be frugal, save my money and invest for my retirement, I should be rewarded with tax-free interest and dividends.
Which has nothing at all to do with the facts that Americans (like me) live a wasteful, destructive lifestyle, and the party is just about over.
And SUVs are, in fact, wasteful, polluting, and dangerous. My minivan is much more practical and economical. | |
|
| |
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:06:29 PM |
And SUVs are, in fact, wasteful, polluting, and dangerous.
SUVs aren't anymore dangerous or wasteful than any other car out there if used in the way they are meant to be used. BTW, I don't have one. But I do own a full size truck. I agree that a couple with no kids don't need an SUV. However, a couple with 3 or more kids are much better off with an SUV. Especially if they enjoy camping and boating. You can't pull a trailer with anything smaller.
And as far as being dangerous.......well, I have seen a LOT more accidents caused by small cars than I have SUVs.
Heck, if you own and ride a motorcycle than EVERY car on the road is wasteful polluting and dangerous. | |
|
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:39:41 PM |
SUVs aren't anymore dangerous or wasteful than any other car out there if used in the way they are meant to be used.
Source:
http://www.resource4accidents.com/topics/suvrollovers.html
Safer for the occupants in a collision with another vehicle, twice as likely to kill occupants in the other vehicle. Far more dangerous to others, in the hands of a sloppy, inattentive, impaired or incapable driver.
While many consumers claim to like SUVs because they feel that the vehicles are safer, thousands of Americans are killed and others suffer severe and chronic injuries as a result of weak vehicle roofs that collapse during rollovers. Because of the vulnerability of these roofs, the pillars can collapse, seriously hurting or even killing the passengers inside the vehicle. Typically persons injured by roof crush have lower-cervical neck fractures and sustain major back injuries - including lifelong paralysis. Many buyers ironically cite safety issues for their decision, claiming that they feel more protected because they are larger, heavier and higher than cars. Unfortunately, when it comes to rollover accidents - the leading cause of death on America's highways - SUVs are among the riskiest vehicles driven today. Rollover is 27% more likely in an SUV than a passenger car Safety belt use is lower in rollovers than in planar crashes Rollover crashes increased in 2005 by 2.1% SUV's are believed to be more dangerous due to their larger size and higher center of gravity compared to sedans More than 61% of fatalities that occur in SUV’s are a result of rollover crashes Over 10,000 people are killed per year in rollover SUV crashes New fatality statistics show 10,694 people died last year in rollovers. Of these horrific accidents, SUVs by far had the highest rate, with 62 percent of all SUV deaths occurring in rollovers - nearly three times the 22 percent rate for cars. This is a major safety issue - more than 30 of the 2002 SUVs tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration earned just one or two stars.
Also, they're wasteful and polluting. | |
|
| |
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:34:39 PM | | >8 years car-free and commuting via bicycle - last time I paid at the pump I believe it was hitting the $2 mark. But then I live in a city, work in the center of the city and have public transportation on the really bad days (meaning ice and way too much snow to commute safely - other than that - if it's raining out when I have to go to work, well I buckle down-put the proper clothing on, add some fenders to the commute and go at it. Oh yeah - and I have a hair dryer at work. No SUV in my future. Have had some people who wanted to give me a car and declined. Of course if I lived in the sticks and still worked in the city - well it would most likely be a different story, but for now it's fine. Plus I like city living (although living a little outside of the Hood would be nice). | |
|
| |
| Are big SUV dying their last gasp?
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:47:04 PM |
In fact if consumers in the US were capable of making rational, responsible decisions, there would be no alcoholism or drug abuse, traffic cops would write very few speeding tickets, and obesity wouldn't be a major health concern in the US.
Small wonder that a person who can't control what he puts in his mouth would make poor decisions about what kind of vehicle he really needs.
I nominate this as post of the week.
Simply put, our gas gluttony is the result of the higher prices we are all experiencing at the pumps. Cry, wimper and throw a tantrum, it will still be fact.
If you want to lower the price of gas, get a fuel-efficient car, move closer to the city and drive less.
BTW, Ms Tude, you go girl!!! | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 7
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
Home
login 
