| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:52:02 AM | Rather than the bum, I'd say it's the girlfriend who was worthless. The "bum" made a comment, that's all. If he didn't approach you or make any threats, there was no need to escalate things to a verbal or physical fight. All that "defending her honor" stuff is pretty archaic. Would you prefer she dumped you because you didn't fight or because the guy stomped the crap out of you and she's no longer attracted to you because you're a scarred up, toothless, and walk with a limp?
I prefer to use humor to defuse a situation like this. The right retort can give everyone a good laugh and one can walk away knowing that, in a sense, you got the best of the other person by being clever. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:01:22 AM | Alpha female! LOL; I've heard it all. You can defend yourself? Is this a Jr. High sock hop and if Cindy Lou calls you a name you pop her in the mouth? Very classy. I wish all countries and people think like you; OMG!
All these women saying,"I'd handle it myself! I'm so tough and awesome." How mature. What a message to tell kids if you have any. Use violence and get in their face. LOL; Go to a foreign country or into some of the high end clubs or other areas and see how long you'd last. You'd have a knife in your stomach or a bullet in your head. Acting like an immature man doesn't make you equal ladies, it makes you as stupid as some men.
You described yourself and said you are an alpha female. You know what you described? An arrogant angry person with a chip on their shoulder that acts like a young frat boy who can't hold their liquor and gets mad at the drop of a hat.
So he should have raged on him and hit him and acted like a hot head teenager protecting his girlfriend because someone looked at her?
Well this exact scenario happened at a club last week. The man "showed up" as you say and handled the situation the way a good Alpha female as yourself would have wanted. Well he was stabbed in the heart and died on the spot. The good part though is that the alpha female must have been happy because he "showed up". He's dead but thats beside the point.
This happened at a high end club earlier this year in L.A. A guy was flirting with girl #1, her boyfriend said chill but the girl had a few and went off on the guy. She wanted to handle her own business. Well the guys girlfriend got ticked off and they took it outside and she shot girl #1. I know she's dead but come on; she took care of business and she gets props and my respect; oh brother.
It's amazing how others think you diffuse situations by acting as violent and obnoxious as the person bothering you. If I were you friend, tell this alpha female to get bent and drop her like yesterdays news.
There are a whole lot of people getting killed today; especially on trips and in the U.S. because they can't control their anger.
You know what the downfall of women is? Instead of being the better sex anymore, they now act like men and are just as lame. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:02:17 AM | | I would expect anyone that I was dating to choose 2. It would have ruined the night that we shared to listen to you fighting with anyone.. vagrant or otherwise. Instead I would have preferred to have you and I walk away and than you to whisper in my ear and tell me how much you love my cleavage showing lol | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:11:15 AM | Did this confrontation take place within the bar? Where was the bartender, manager or bouncer? I would think that a person in charge of drinking establishment would take it upon him or herself to remove( or have removed) a person who was being offensive to paying customers who were NOT actively egging on the bad behavior.
Cindy O | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:14:17 AM | There is no doubt you made the right choice to remove yourself from the situation ! I don't understand how a arguement developed. Did you break up because of the choice made on the beach, or the words you two exchanged thereafter ?  | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:24:56 AM | Here's another way to look at the situation: How many women (mainly those who think heartwinner wimped out) would enjoy it - how many would TOLERATE it - if their man turned every encounter like this into a brawl or cussing frenzy?
I know this isn't real life, so please just consider it as a parable: There was an episode of "Sex & the City" in which Charlotte dated a man who first came too her attention when he punched out a guy who was being rude to her. After they began dating, he used every slight as an opportunity to deck someone. Seems he took the whole idea of chivalry a bit too far. Male or female, romantic or platonic, I don't imagine myself hanging out with people like that. Don't get me wrong - I can fight. I just don't want to if given a choice.
I was at a bar once with some friends and a woman from our group got into an altercation with a woman at another table. The other woman got really agitated and wanted a fight, threatening to call her biker father, and even flashing a knife. I started talking to the woman like I was HER friend, sort of flirting with her to talk her down. Honestly, I was worried about getting stabbed, myself, but I wasn't going to let those two go at it. Yeah, I could have called the police, although the only thing they could have done would be to arrest whomever was left standing after the fact. I'm pretty happy with the result, even if I had to wring out my underwear when I got home.
P.S. - Just read post by mthomjmark. I agree. Those things are not such a stretch of the imagination. And I don't hang out in rough bars. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:37:28 AM | | The reason that the girlfriend was angry was because she was actually being sexually harrassed and abused. so when the boyfriend did not do anything then maybe to her she thought 'well realized 'that she did not really mean that much to her boyfriend. i would have broke up also. with him. Maybe he should not have gotten into a fight with the bum but he should have did something and protected her from this abusive man. But really a real man could have and would have known how to get this bum put in his place with a word or body language. Where have all the real men gone. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:43:33 AM | mthomjmark - I am a little surprised at your comments in this Thread as I usually think your comments are well thought about after you must have read and understood a thread.
Maybe I have missed some posts but I dont think so, where has a women said she wanted a bf to act violently to defend her?
Also, lets remember the original thread, it is written that the drunk made a comment about her cleavage, a few words were exchanged and then the drunk left, seemed to me that was handled without violence or abuse. Then the OP says the drunk came back mouthing at his gf and everyone so she was being attacked, he doesnt say his gf mouths off at the drunk, it is only later at the ship when she is mad at OP that she is mouthing off. I dont like bad language in any sense but I have to admit a couple in an argument can get pretty nasty in the privacy of their own room.
To sumarise how I read the OT, a couple spent the day at the beach, ended the day with a stop at a bar, was harrased by a drunk, left quietly then had a break up fight. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:54:34 AM | To sumarise how I read the OT, a couple spent the day at the beach, ended the day with a stop at a bar, was harrased by a drunk, left quietly then had a break up fight.
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Sweetness! Can't wait to meet their kids. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:04:37 AM | mthomjmark -
All these women saying,"I'd handle it myself! I'm so tough and awesome." How mature. What a message to tell kids if you have any. Use violence and get in their face. LOL; Go to a foreign country or into some of the high end clubs or other areas and see how long you'd last. You'd have a knife in your stomach or a bullet in your head. Acting like an immature man doesn't make you equal ladies, it makes you as stupid as some men.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that the girlfriend of the OP was violent or that she wanted her boyfriend to be violent. She felt harassed and attacked and wanted her man to stand up for her, that doesn't mean she wanted him to yell at the bum, or physically attack him, she just wanted more of a response than to just whisk them away. She could have just wanted him to say with a forceful tone "Hey man, back off" and then walk away.
So he should have raged on him and hit him and acted like a hot head teenager protecting his girlfriend because someone looked at her?
No.
It's amazing how others think you diffuse situations by acting as violent and obnoxious as the person bothering you. If I were you friend, tell this alpha female to get bent and drop her like yesterdays news.
Standing up for yourself is different than making a scene, being inappropriately obnoxious, or getting violent. Ever situation is different, and many are dangerous but I think the poster who called herself an alpha female just meant that she wouldn't DEPEND on her boyfriend for standing up for her. That's all. I may be wrong, but that was my impression of her statement.
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:19:06 AM | If I was the girlfriend....I would take care of it myself.....
I would have opted for choice no.#4...but leaned over(holding my swimsuit top in place)and whispered quietly to the bartender, "Give the guy a drink, but without the alcohol." | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:30:57 AM | | Choice # 5: Send her and her mouth packing and find a woman that appreciates going on a cruise. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:05:44 PM | I would definitely have returned an insult to the guy (e.g. "why don't you shut up and get a job?" or "dude, you need a shower......big time") and then turned it into a battle of wits. If it turned violent, it would be by his choice.
I could walk away if someone insulted me, but not my girlfriend (if I really liked her).
BTW, great name for a thread. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:16:57 PM | | Look at the bright side, you got rid of two worthless bums in one shot...and without lowering yourself and risking bodily injury and/or death. Besides, who wants to touch a hobo? Sheessh...I give them a free pass because I'd probably have two bathe for two hours to get their germs off of me. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:24:48 PM | I agree with msg 84, you don't expect your man to go Neanderthal on your behalf, but you do, expect him step up to the plate and not leave you to deal with a drunk. Would you expect your future wife to have to deal with a bum alone or would you present as a united pair?
Some people project "spineless coward" who won't defend verbally even the people he cares about. My ex was a complete coward and would look like he was going to cry or he would actually even hide behind me. Men rightly and instantly saw that this was a worm to walk all over. There is no point in staying with someone who is a worm because you know when the chips are down he will run away and leave you standing by yourself as mine certainly did. At some level, your partner does need to make you feel like he would stand up for you, you deserve to feel safe with your partner, not be keeping an eye on him to see if he is running for the car ahead of you. Otherwise, why would you feel "safe" and confident enough to go out at all with him, men see you as easy prey because you may as well be alone. It feels awful and I am so, so ashamed I stuck by and even worse bred with such a yellow-belly coward as him.
As with all things there are degrees of assertiveness, I think you left out OP your initial response to the comments - that, is probably the real issue. If you said nothing at all in reply to a low life talking to your date rudely, she would be right in leaving you.
Yellow-bellies then "get tough" with the woman when out of public sight too....yeah, real hero/man material. Grabbing her and shaking her - I would've kneed you a good one. There is time and place for balls as well as a few brains. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:53:54 PM |
Your in your 8 month of dating and you take your girlfriend on a cruise. Your drinking one day at the beach toward the end of the day the two of you are headed back to the ship. You stop by a bar situated near the cruise ship and see a couple that you know from the cruise and the couple is conversing with a worthless bum. The bum makes a comment about your girlfriend covering up because her cleavage is showing. The bum and your girlfriend exchange a couple of words . The bum leaves and comes back more drunk than before and is shooting his mouth of to your girlfriend and everybody else. What would you do?
1 Tell the bum to shut up
2 Just leave the bum alone and leave with your girlfriend to the ship
3hang out with the bum and be buddy's
4 buy the bum a drink
I chose answer number 2
Was I in the right?
My girlfriend got mad because I didnt choose answer 1 not only did she get mad but she cussed my out called me every name in the book which lead to a heated fight and her breaking up with me when we got home.
Was my girlfriend in the right?
Your insight and feedback would be useful . Please place your comments and answers to the questions here
Your girlfriend is WRONG.
If this would have escalated into a fight and you ended up charged with some sort of criminal offense, would it have been worth it ? Where I live, they don't TOLERATE it. Even if you got off, it still is a lot of shit you don't need in your life. Somebody who already has an extensive criminal record wouldn't care about a simple assault charge. It is routine for some people. Maybe this 'bum' is one of those guys.
I have met so many people that could not control themselves in bars and they now have criminal records.
If somebody physically attacks you, you have every right, in my opinion, to defend yourself. You may even be able to have the drinking establishment legally held responsible. If you are ever hurt because some drunk assaulted you in a bar, don't let the establishment intimidate you in going away. Don't let them get away with threatening to call the cops on you when you are a victim. Call their bluff and let the authorities who can suspend their liquor license know what happened. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:56:15 PM | hello!
You cannot reason with a drunk.
you did the right thing. And if your g/f couldn't see that.. Well ... that's just too bad. But sorry you got dumped like that. over something that you did to protect her in the long run.. somtimes people can't see that. Maybe she didn't think of that side of it.. and all she could see was how insulted she was and thought that you being her b/f should have taken up for her.. but you really did... you walked and took her wit you and protected her in a different.. SAFe way..
Smart!!!
April | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:09:21 PM | Well, it's sad you posed only 4 possible answers. It shows you couldn't think of better alternatives. And better alternatives are available--not fisticuffs, but some grace and aplomb. Some sense of propriety. Some sense of protecting your gal, not just protecting your behind.
I don't know "your woman" --she may be a roller derby style loud mouth, or maybe what the bum said/did gave her just cause to speak up in the first encounter--YOU know her and her insecurities best. Or you SHOULD. So, if you missed it on the first exchange...on the second encounter, *IF* you were tuned into "your woman" and the situation, a well-timed "look" or word or a hand on her back, arm, or hand to guide her AWAY FROM THE TROUBLE would have been a good thing...but that didn't happen.
So. A couple of things.
1. Women STILL LIKE TO FEEL PROTECTED (unless they relish being a roller derby queen and have some quirkishness to resent this kind of behavior). Read one of my first posts--a boyfriend who could not digest a similar situation, which he CAUSED. In fact, weeks later, he asked the aggressor if my reaction (I was gracious...and increasingly terse with the loudmouth...but I was very offended and told my DATE so after the loudmouth left). Many FEMALE contributors suggested I grow some hair and not be this guy's doormat. It took me several months to "get" that this guy was incapable of being anyone's protector (than himself. He could say he loved me and eat my food--I was his provider/protector, but got no reciprocation.)...which changed the demeanor of our relationship, and I had to move on if I wanted to find reciprocity.
2. PEOPLE like to feel VALUED, not demeaned. I surely want to feel valued protected by/in the groups and friendships I look forward to being part of. We all need a certain degree of group dynamics, like army buddies or herd animals or even geese, have someone volunteer to walk point, pull sentry duty, watch each other's back. That didn't happen, it sounds like. Not step in and beat someone up...but exhibit some social skills to diffuse the situation and give your girl a good dose of positive regard, even if in private.
3. NOBODY likes to be threatened. I have been in several escalating circumstances....once at an opera, where my date got into a verbal embroglio with his seat mate on the other side. It was silly, embarassing, and made lots of us nervous. At intermission, I sat between the two feuding fellows to keep them from biting each other. If this becomes a model for a relationship (someone is always getting the other one out of predicaments)....well, there's plenty of famous couples--Lucy and Dezi, Hillary and Bill, Picasso and his wives... you have to consider the individual--what are you "giving" each other: you sound a bit like a Good Time Charlie. I'm not suggesting a Rambo, but some amount of savoir-faire is "keeper" quality. One guy I dated cited his "best" quality was the ability to disappear in a crowd. And, so, in my eyes, he did.
4. WHAT was said, and HOW (in the argumentS) is one thing. The bigger question is how you handle things like graciousness with wait staff, whose "side" you take in family arguments, whether you're always being challenged to be referee--or if this situation was a precipitating indicator of how attentive you are (or aren't) relative to what her needs are--or were.
In all relationships, we need to feel that we are with fans who are rooting for us--or who are at least willing and/or capable of "seeing" our motives and efforts. If this was missing from your interaction, it was really a matter of not if, but when.... | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:53:17 PM | | i would not have let that guy make me leave, it is your right as well to be there, i would have asked him to please move on and if he did not i would have told the bartender and asked for the police to be called.. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 2:26:18 PM |
i would not have let that guy make me leave, it is your right as well to be there, i would have asked him to please move on and if he did not i would have told the bartender and asked for the police to be called... there's the action that would make me feel my SO valued both of us! | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 3:15:47 PM |
i would not have let that guy make me leave, it is your right as well to be there, i would have asked him to please move on and if he did not i would have told the bartender and asked for the police to be called..
That is a great answer, if say they were on home turf and were at the establishment for an evening out.
The op specifically stated that they were on their way back to the ship anyways and "just stopped by".
Something I think the last few posters have missed is that it is a FOREIGN land. Not some pud down the street from your home. To get into any type of altercation (verbal or otherwise) in a foreign land not only is perilous at the best of times, if it were to escalate it may even become an international incident. Remember: as a tourist you are their as a guest, and probably don't have the same rights and priveledges as a local.
I still say the OP acted with discretion and properly considering the circumstances. Everyone has to remember: there is a time for fight, and a time for flight and what is that other saying? One has to CHOSE their battles and this time, I don't think it was a time to get into a battle of words/fists/whathaveyou. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:00:12 PM |
The reason that the girlfriend was angry was because she was actually being sexually harrassed and abused.
LOL; come on; she was probably wearing something extremely revealing and sexual, wanting others to see her and then she's being sexually harassed. OMG; the victim card comes out.
It's kind of like when woman wear extremely short skirts, you can see their panties and they spend the night tugging it down. LOL
This woman could have ignored this person. This guy handled it properly; kudo's to him. | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:11:11 PM | The minute you heard the bum comment about your girlfriend you should have said. While looking at "bum" straight in the eye.
"How she covers her self is none of your ****ing business."
Before it even got to him addressing her directly, and if he did continue to address her directly...well in my case that would have sparked a fight, sorry. I have no tolerance for guys showing disrespect to couples out on the town. If a guy doesn't know a girl is with someone okay, but if the bf is right there and some jerk commences to make lude comments to or talks to his girl, that is disrespect to be answered in only one way. To make him suffer the intense consequences of his indiscretion. It doesn't matter how your gf was dressed, that gives no guys around the right to comment or disrespect you and her in public. Maybe I am a hot head , maybe it is a NY thing, personally I've never had to do more than raise my voice to have circling wolves run from my dates when out in the city but I've seen guys tolerate way more than I would.
I can see your girl being upset , part of your job is to protect her honor. If a guy is talking to her as if you aren't there...that is disrespect to you and her, she felt you should have at least said something (and I agree) and that is why she is upset. Though I would have been already half****d the moment the bum addressed my gf, but maybe that's just Brooklyn speaking. ;) | |
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| A bum of a question
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:55:33 PM | oh yeah, that's the answer.....
No disrespect dude, but did you ever stop and think that that attitude is maybe why the US has the largest number of murders every year? And maybe why your prisons are packed to the rafters?
Maybe it is time someone taught the yanks that maybe violence isn't the answer to everything?
yeah well, the guy said something untoward, shoot him SHOOT THE BAST@RD, while you're at it, shoot his kids too because they will come after you, oh wait, hafta shoot his homies too because they will avenge his death (whether he was right or wrong), better kill their friends too because they'll want revenge....yup, that's the answer..... | |
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