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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:52:17 AM | First, you mention Alison has a history of self-abuse?
Has she truly gotten a lot more healthy since then? If not...do you want to date someone with low self esteem, and a history of self abuse?
Number two: Jane drapes herself on you, accuses Alison of causing trouble...Alison isn't seeing this for what it is?
It appears to be a lot of drama, causing a lot of work, for people who may just not be worth the investment, frankly. Alison has asked you not to contact her, and yet you are sending flowers? Respect her wishes. She has low self esteem, and was dating you, who have close friends who pull tricks like this?
See where I'm going? It may hurt to let Alison go, but I suspect its truly the best thing for everyone--you don't get a bird with a wing or two down, she doesn't get a guy she can't trust b/c of how his female friends act. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 10:19:35 AM | I was intrigued at first then I was simply astounded, I don't think the issue is whether you date a person with history or self-esteem issues as much as how you escalate the present situation with more intrigue and complications. This storyboard read like a greek tragedy.
If you are genuinely looking for a 'tactical plan' to manage the issue or fire-fight, I wouldn't recommend inviting someone you do not know personally into what appeared like a menage d'trois... as a confident, or peacemaker, as honestly, it will excerbate the situation which is already toxic.
The problem started with allowing a friend to 'drape' herself as everyone else has noticed as in adult relationships that are platonic you simply don't behave innappropriately and I think ego allowed you to encourage this.
I would cut your losses and see what the future brings and learn from this catelogue of disasters. To be honest, we all have times in our lives where well meaning pals interfere, or do it through envy and spite, but the best approach is the one of simple sincerity and respect for other's space to go their own way.
It is hard to orchestrate situations to your advantage, usually the energy is a waste of your own resource and the results are always poorly delivered.
'... knowing how important trust is to her (Allison)...' I think that texting her anonymously and realising that she was niave enough to trust again and confide in the admirer is quite sad, and that you enjoyed the power and now you have to pay for the deceit... this is the cost and you should be man enough to take it on the chin and let her find someone who doesn't engage in such ploys. I also think that you knew what you were doing and got too wrapped in the 'game', forgetting that it was potentially dangerous and could backfire.
You say in your possible letter... "She won't thank me for contacting you..." You are right, she would consider you a rake! It is the kind of mistake we make in our youth, and it always has a negative backlash.... Friends should only be engaged for support when you have trust with them, and they have shown some consideration for both of you... Otherwise, it is likely that you cannot predict the consequences and they are always likely to make things worse, ;)
Take a deep breath and just learn from this as any adult would and don't hedge your bets in the future, maturity is about forging forward trying to learn from Life, and not be engaged in duplicitous, weaving deceitful webs... Even if they are created by others. | |
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Pip_38
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Joined: 2/18/2008
Msg: 28 | |
| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:12:33 PM | Hey Galonthemt....
Firstly, the weekends away with Jane were during the time Alison and I had stopped going out and she started seeing someone. Jane has been a friend for a long time and so I wasn't going to drop her as a friend because Id met Alison and thats why I introduced them. The fact she took a dislike to Alison, I didnt anticipate and I don't know why. I'm not a woman! I was uncomfortable and conscious of it the night she draped herself over me and even told Alison that Jane had never behaved like that before. And for the record, I have never slept with Jane I just thought she was a friend. . Also, in the past six weeks that I have been taking Alison out again, it has been as platonic friends.. I do care about people immensely and that grows when a relationship becomes physical...I was quite hurt when we stopped dating before so this time I've not been so willing to jump into bed for my own self-preservation....And I'm not interested in no-strings encounters.
Had we never became more than friends again, then so be it. I care about her as a person. Not as a sexual partner or object.
And the reason for my post here was to seek advice regarding sending that message and judging that not a single soul has advocated doing so.. I know I did the right thing seeking the views of others.
But I am dismayed at the people telling me that I need help and therapy!
I admitted I was stupid sending her an anonymous text telling her how beautiful she was. And that the texting went on for three days. But i never sent her anything nasty in that time. Maybe she was dismayed to find that it wasn't Brad Pit texting her but just lil old me, thinking he was cheering her up.
How many here have never made a mistake in their relationships? This is a site for those who find themselves single, right?
Alison has said that she doesnt want me to contact her again and I have already accepted and respect that. But that means I can't try and explain fully my reasons and I really don't want her going through life thinking that I set out to hurt her because I didn't. I thought that maybe if I told her friend, she'd maybe get the message one day. I wasn't looking to re-kindle a relationship with her. But It looks like I'll just have to leave things be. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:23:00 PM | | Go to www.thechickmagnet.ca, by the book "Don't be a Dumbass - Every Guy Guide to Getting the Girl" and stop all the drama!!!! | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 1:30:06 PM | I say: send the email to woman #3 (erika, kiri, or similar).
Should be a good laugh to hear your surprise to the reaction.
low self esteem all around. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 2:06:28 PM | Pip,
thank you for taking the time to write to everyone, and explain more fully and now I understand and it makes more sense to me, I think then i would suggest that for a your own and her peace of mind, you need to work on how to emotionally sever ties from this lady - or at least wait to let the dust settle and see how things pan out.
Give it a couple of months of no dialog. Then I don't see any problem in just sending one card (no flowers) to explain yourself directly to her, having had the hindsight of the advice on the website here, and letting her know that it is an aplogy for how confused things became and that it is just so that she knows not everyone is mercenary and she is valued. It is difficult to take on harsh criticism and some cruel responses which come from those of us not in your shoes, and quite happy to appear so sure, because we haven't been fraught with trying to find every 'angle' to change our bad circumstances as you clearly were trying to do when you wrote this letter intending to send it to her friend.
It is easy to slip into righteous indignation at the thought that others might make mistakes that we would never make, but who hasn't gone to a friend of an ex. to try and make sense of breakups, even if we understand the reasons for them.
Let her know that you felt yourself falling in love with her/feeling you wanted to take things more seriously, at this time in the past and that you hoped she would understand that due to confusions inside you - you mishandled the situation and given more confidence in yourself you would have handled situations differently. Don't confuse issues by bringing anyone else into the equation including the 'spoiler', and just wish her luck making it clear that if she ever needs a friend and feels she would like to give you a chance you are there but you wont be calling/drawing her attention etc again beyond this one letter.
Then delete her from all your files, and if she herself decided to reopen an aquaintanceship then you have a chance to reconsider and start fresh.... I do applaud the fact that you had the courage to open yourself up to this assault from the sidelines, but at least you are putting yourself out there emotionally and that always takes backbone. we are all hopeful that those relationships we invest in will endure to the end, and not every one of them is signed and sealed hermetically like untainted paint... if you look at most people they have history and a swirl of colours that give them depth. Grown-ups do often make atonement to past mistakes and I know I value being respected enough to be the recipient of a sincere, and heartfelt apology.
Hope this helps Pip,
Regards
Sapphire | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:33:02 PM | Pip....
1. Talk to Alison in person.
2. NEVER borrow your lap top to ANYONE!!
3. I share a similar name...I'm sometimes called...Pippy. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:58:29 PM |
Jane has been a friend for a long time and so I wasn't going to drop her as a friend because Id met Alison and thats why I introduced them. The fact she took a dislike to Alison, I didnt anticipate and I don't know why.
Because she saw her as competition and a threat.
I was uncomfortable and conscious of it the night she draped herself over me and even told Alison that Jane had never behaved like that before.
Yet you did nothing to stop it as it was occurring. Rather you tried to blow off her behavior afterwards, when you should have politely told Jane "back off".
Of course we have all made mistakes. You learn to live with the consequences and let the other person move on and try to find happiness. You might have had a chance to apologize had you not done the mystery text messaging.
And you knew that Jane left that nasty window open on your laptop, and you knew why, yet you still fell for it? That makes no sense to me. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:30:42 PM | Oh my holy hell! I thought to myself, this must be some clueless 20 something year old horny kid with no concept of personal boundaries (either having or respecting) or social skills. Color me embarrassed to find the OP was 39!
I have three boys, 16, 19, and 22. Because I like to use these little examples in life to teach them how they should live, I printed out your post and read it to them. They are completely shocked and appalled by this tale of woe. I have raised my young men to remember that every woman is someone else's mother, sister, or daughter. Since they have a mother and a sister, I tell them to treat every woman like they would want us to be treated. If you can remember this rather simple piece of information, every dealing you have with a woman will be what it should be.
You don't have to let women "drape" themselves all over you if they are not women you want to have a relationship with. Yeah, yeah, I know it's flattering and exciting and all that tommyrot. All you have to do is politely remove their hands from your person and if it continues, tell them it makes you feel uncomfortable. If it still continues, don't see them ever again, because they do not respect your boundaries. If you do not have any personal boundaries, then you might want to take a look at that. Get a counselor and get some damn therapy, because you have more issues than National Geographic. I know this may come as a huge shock to you, but you are the star and not the audience of your own life. What you do and how you choose to negotiate your way through life is going to determine the outcome.
Next, trash the letter to the friend. If it were high school it might get a pass, but it's so much more than intrusive... it is way past scary, controlling and creepy. Also, you do not need to barf your personal life and relationships all over strangers. First off, they don't care and secondly, it will confirm the idea that you are unstable.
Since you claim she is such a lovely person, how about you step up to the plate, grow a pair and treat her like one? Do not pursue her if you really do not want her, to meet your own selfish needs of the moment. I do not know how to break this to you, but everything in the 'verse is not about you, yours needs and your penis.
If you want to date Alison (and when I say this I mean declare and date one person, not a crowd of other women equally as disturbed as you are), your only chance, and I mean only... is to write to Allison directly. Please do not waste her time if you want to date a hoard of other women or just want to bone down with her. You know she is insecure already, and does not need to be dragged through your adolescent BS. She will grow more insecure, become bitter and wary to the other men who live in the universe and you will bear a big part of that responsibility to your fellow man.
You will write the note by hand, no typing, no e-mailing and for God's sake don't text it. This is a moment for a personal touch and actual effort. Show her what a real grown up should display... the self sacrifice that a person who truly respects and admires someone might demonstrate. If you really care about someone else, you want them to be happy.
You will not add a bunch of crap accusing Jane of anything. In fact, Jane is really peripheral here, you did all the dumb*ss things all by yourself, for whatever myriad of mental disorders you are suffering from. You will state your case simply and honestly. You will say only what applies to her, and you will apologize profusely and not make excuses, justifications or lame rationalizations for your incredibly stupid behavior. You will say you are fully aware that you have behaved like a complete *ss and you will mean it. If you are going to send her flowers, then make sure the note comes with the flowers, which means you are going to have to march your butt down to the florist in person. No ordering them online. No taking the easy way out in this case.
Then you are going to sit and wait, and you will abide by whatever decision she makes. You will ask her to return contact with some sort of communication either way. You are going to allow her time to consider what you have said, this means no bugging her and prying into her personal life by asking friends. You will take the consequences that your complete lack of common sense or decency has wrought like a man. You will let it go if she decides that you are a full on nut case and she is better off without someone who has no clue what the hell he wants. You will not continue to pursue or chase her.
Whatever her decision may be, if she is nice enough to accept your repentance or decides that you are hopeless. Do try and work on yourself for a while, and don't throw yourself into another relationship. Don't try to bury it, feel the pain and use the energy and misery to make a permanent change for the better within yourself.
This concludes the lecture for How to Be a Good Man 101. There will be a quiz on Wednesday. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:00:42 PM | OK wait a minute...if this girl (Alison) isn't the independent think-for-herself type, but someone who is so easily influenced by the hateful words of people she doesn't know, why is it again you want to be with her?
I don't get it. Times like this is when you find out who your true friends are because they're the ones still standing by your side through all the mud slinging.
Mom...lol
That was a most excellent post. You're such a mom.
It would appear the OP has left POF. Hmm | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:13:07 PM | We've all let our heads get too big over the attentions of ppl, let Alison make up her own mind.
This Jane sounds like she is better off not being a friend (or 'mate' as you say.. are you on a ship? LOL...sorry I know it's a Brit thing, was just injecting humor).
Really don't involve the friend, my last serious bf almost did that and when he showed me the email he intended on sending to a bunch of my friends, I told him he would not like their answers as they saw my side of the problems more than his. Although a part of me would have liked them to reply...lol. Basically what they said would not matter and never did.
Some ppl are just not meant to be at certain times.
Like others have said, Jane wanted you for herself and you allowed her to behave rudely to a woman you were actually dating (not just ****ing, or is it shagging?).
Send Allison a message if you must, but sounds like you lost that one.
Don't worry, happens to the best of us. I truly believe if it is meant to be ... it will. But we have to make an effort.
Best of luck to you and all the parties involved. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:14:45 PM | | In answer to Pip who seems to have "left the building" and Sphinx-fire who seems to feel we or I were hard on him. First your original post was unclear as to the status of Jane and PIP. "during this time I was often out with Jane, we had a couple of weekends away." To most this would not imply ONLY friendship but a more involved relationship. Next we have sometime after the "6 weeks ago alison and I started going out as friends" then "jane and I were away one weekend" At this point pip says he realized jane was a "user". Then we have Janes famous quote "pip was only thing available". For our next selection we quote letter to keri Friday "HAD TOO MANY DRINKS and a new phone sim SENT ALLISON MESSAGES" but then we sent more messages Saturday AND Sunday. We weren't drunk all weekend were we? Finally we say in keri letter "never meant to hurt her, break the trust, make fool out of her". So lets see given the info I had 1. it looked like you were sleeping with jane. 2. jane drapped all over you WHILE on date with alison. poor judgement, no boundries. 3. jane was a user, abuser and if you were paying for weekend a golddigger. 4. Friday night texting after drinks DRUNK DIALING. 5. Mentally unbalanced, needing therapy bad enough calling Friday drunk, but then to call all Saturday and Sunday in the guise of "secret admirer" ARE YOU SH*TTIN ME you lied to her about who you were, did so for 2 1/2 days you expected this was not going to hurt? Was this breaking trust? Not to mention making her feel like a fool. Does this sound like the act of a rational human being? Who benifitted from this you or alison? Did this inflate your ego? I'm sure if she had self esteem issues your playing with her just made her feel all warm and fuzzy. Pip if you venture back to read this go back to your original post, then read it as someone else, that it had nothing to do with you and tell me what you think of that person and if they need help. Sphinx fire you seem very intelligent, I don't understand why you would want to sugarcoat this duplicity. I'm not even going into other issues I see, just the lies, manipulations and poor judgement. Thank you mominatrix for your post which while not as torrid as mine certainly sees much the same as I. Bob | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 1:16:21 AM | Thank you for refocussing the direct comments to me here Bob2013, instead of employing your pip-bashing, as I enjoy a little healthy jousting. It is cool, I think therefore it is fair to explain to you that before Pip closed his account he communicated to me personally, after my first posting here, and I got a fuller more detailed ground view of the trenches. I don't believe that people have been harsh with him based on what was known, and how it was presented. In fact my own initial response was quite judgemental too. I suggested that he learnt from the comments here in fact because I believe that overall he is getting healthy wealth of experience in the responses which is abundantly clear when you read the profiles of many of the generous people who took time to try to advise him. Sometimes I read the profiles and I love being on Plenty of Fish for that reason alone, it is an opportunity to discover the beauty of broken dreams and dreamers and there are some truly exceptional individuals here, who are exciting and even if frivolous or full of candour and imagination they fascinate me.
In my interpretation... Pip was in pain and is an emotional individual who tries to 'fix' stuff often to his own detriment, and possibly making things worse, due to being a child-like personality, ebullient, hopeful and optimistic. He wears his heart on a sleeve and to those with a calculating edge to their own psyche's his approach is a car-crash.
I think having someone take time to be so vocal, and share thereby expose a vast amount of their psyche makes it easier to comprehend the data, without being limited and just brushing it all off. I wasn't sugar coating it - but it was clear the man was hurting and I am too big a person to (proverbially) kick a dog when it is down, or sneer at it, as you have.
I do think that dear Bob you have personal issues yourself, as you felt you needed to turn on me and also merge yourself in your team whilst you did so. I could say that there appears little or no balance in your sense of showing any compassion or comprehensive understanding at the subtleties that sometimes begin to appear between the larger obvious building blocks and tenets that relationships are supposed to be built on. Good luck with that approach, I guess you are always handling all your relationships from the same pulpit, and it works for you. Remind me to book extra seats if we were ever on a date so you can bring along your first line of defense - the 'others' that you align to. I like to speak as an individual without worrying about offending the masses, but always hoping to lead and direct others into ethical, balanced and harmonious debate.
I would like to add that in the early stages of dating whatever your age, there are moments when friendships may begin to blur as sometimes people fall for their friends and vice verse... it is part of the human condition, and trust is something that is often tested and can be discovered flawed.
Honestly, it takes all types, and I work with passionate Italians, in what is known as the worlds best car industry, and they absolutely intrigue me, the cultural differences from the British are vast, yet what is also incredible is the excitement and challenge as well as adrenaline rush that their fire and intelligence produces. Being Asian, I have the best of both worlds, because Asians are like Italians, you have cool and hot types...
Therefore, what I am summarizing here is that Pip is perhaps spontaneously someone who lives in the moment, he therefore falls headlong into issues that he creates because of this hopefulness and that for the rest of us who may be more cautious and with a second sense of impending disaster to be able to side-step it, it seems like insanity, or at best futility... I understand both points of view because I am an artistic creative person in a driven senior role that is intensely corporate, one part of my role is 'Quality' which is all about systems, and cold, the other is heading HR - so people-orientated, which I choose purposely to conduct with warmth and with compassion where I can integrate it. When I meet other HR professionals they reflect a cold faced barren society where I wonder how anyone would ever want to confide in them or even turn to them for anything beyond a legal perspective on their residual benefits.
I try to live with integrity, and old fashioned values of nobility and sacrifice, therefore engage from all perspectives and refuse to let myself lose my spontaneity whilst embracing the sensible rationality of risk management and mitigation. For me it is always comfortable and I don't feel the dichotomy of the situation overwhelms me. Look at the person, look at the individual, look at the system created, look at the purpose and outcome or result... How you think is often how you rationale yours and other's behaviour.
I felt that Pip was becoming overwhelmed and that he had lost his bearings and was starting to unravel with what had become a messy engagement and to try to extricate himself he generally muddled through and then had to try to fire fight (in his mental state of looking for fixes).
I don't know maybe I just take time as I see more of Life to know that black and white is a limited palette and predictable, and I never want to date it myself. Pip is a colour mayhem and like a child's drawing of bold hand prints of obscure lines that need to be explained and when it is, the mature adults within us who have the patience not to treat him as a drowning man and put our foot on his head to push him under whilst we laugh at his poor backstroke.... We might observe and smile a little kindly, to know that the drawing is actually another reflection of our own inner workings. He reflects elements I see in everyone around me including myself at times in my life, so perhaps I have more experience of people and understand or comprehend the myriad of bewildering emotions that can drive creatures with a deeper sense of psychological appreciation.
"What did you paint son?"
"(child smiling) ... Why that is you Pa' there with your golf club, see".
"Oh, yes so it is..."
By the way MOMINATRIX is so funny, (rather like the Queen of Cards in Alice and the Looking Glass... barking 'Off with his head"...) there were so many 'YOU WILL' offensives and orders, commands and rules, bullying going on there that I was practically backed up against a wall with her pretty fingertip in my face as I remembered Mrs. Hazard my music teacher ... LOL trying to force me to write with my right hand when I am ambidextrous lol To avoid her considering me out of line with the rest of the students who were right handed solely, I complied once or twice, but sometimes would change hands at will, whilst looking at her straight in the eye and smiling wider mirroring the 'Cheshire Cat', in Alice 'through the looking glass'....
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 2:18:13 AM | Hi pip,
Man ,you are some piece of work. If I was a woman,I'd never go near you. What with all that self pity,and all the hurt everyone has given you,I'd doubt if there was any room for anyone else in your life.
This is a synopsis of what you say(well the way I read it anyway)You really like this girl,but allowed another girl to droop over you while you were supposedly trying to impress the new one.
When the new one gets upset about this you part,so you then go away week-ends
with the one you don't like, that was drooped all over you.
When the new one finds out about this,you start to stalk her.
You then get into a lap top that isn't yours,and see private messages.
As I said in the beggining,man ,you are some piece of work. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 2:22:43 AM | OP You said you met Alison on a social networking site? Just a thought - put a very short blog about how you have been misunderstood and have lost a dear friend. Don't go into details, don't send the letter (or flowers).
If Alison reads the blog, she'll know who you mean and may contact you. If she doesn't, leave it alone and move on.
If you go into details and explain yourself, you are summarily admitting guilt. You've done nothing wrong and owe no explanations or apologies!
In my opinion, these women seem petty and childish and I'd forget them all...
but that's me. | |
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New2Au
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Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 42 | |
| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 3:47:06 AM | Pip,
I congratulate you for seeking a second opinion.
Jane is a user. Jane is poison. Jane acted inappropriately and you let her. Avoid her like th plague. Don't send the letter. Maybe send a Birthday card to Allison on her next birthday, whenever that is. I wouldn't myself. Allison will never trust ANYONE! She doesn't give the benefit of the doubt. Move on and learn from your mistakes. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:56:10 AM | Sphinx-fire, first and foremost this is a public forum. Which means I post my opinion and you post yours. My format maybe more emotional than yours, my reactions more veseral than yours, but they are mine. You have a great writing style and may even be more balanced. I believe though that with all you wrote, you wish to, IMO, pat pip on the head and say "that's ok".
Having said all that with reguard to "pip bashing" you maintain "I got a fuller more detailed ground view of the trenches" from him. Is there some reason he could not share that? Is there some reason you did not share that? Aside from privacy issues on your part I cannot see why when one posts ,seeking advise, if there is not clarity in what was said you do not correct it. Next we have "Pip was in pain" "tries to fix stuff" "worse due to child like personality". This may or may not be true, since I don't know PIP I would not have that knowledge. Being 39 one would hope he would have acquired the skills to recognize truth from fantasy. Was it not his intention to lie with reguard to texting? I understand the incident of too much to drink, this was not the case on sat. or sun. How do you suppose this was a good thing for alison? Who's ego was being fed by said texts? Peter Pan complex aside, this was a huge violation of trust and truthfulness. So he dialed her drunk, why didn't he come clean over the weekend?
Since distance would preclude a date between us the extra seats will not be necessary. As to my personal issues, you are probably right, I have them, just as you do. I feel strongly about deceit and lies. I take it you have no such issues, no things that cause a reaction in you? Most humans I find have them, even if they do not admit them to themselves. As to your team concept I don't need a lynch mob or someone else to speak my mind. I have taken the less popular side on many issues here.
You go into your job and experiences, that you draw on from life. I have my own, some good, some bad many extra ordinarily both. This gives me my experiences to draw on. Based solely on your style of writing and content you seem to imply your knowledge base is far superior to mine. Sorry I don't see it that way, no matter what, I have the same right to my opinion.
Finally we come to "felt pip was overwhemed and lost his bearing" no, he may indeed have been overwhelmed. He DID lie, he did use bad judgement, he did not think of this woman's feelings or situation(low self esteem) when he fed his ego texting her. This came at her expense.
I am a man and was on this site looking for a woman, now I just stay for the forums. During my time on here and in at least 60% of forum threads, women speak to their difficulty with finding honest(non-lying) men. Pip's cavalier lifestyle poisons the pool for others. Pip hasn't lost his bearing just his moral compass, as he justifies behavior I do not believe you or any other woman would want to accept. You after all do not have to agree with me, you do not even have to acknowledge my points, that is your right. My posts deal directly with his actions, yes, I may have been much stronger than needed to be. Even you have to admit his actions were morally suspect and showed such poor judgement as to warrant some rebuke. I did not look but would think 70% or more of response to his post came back negative. Then what does he do? He flees because no one supported him in his deception. His behavior in this drama was the basis of a good part of this post and when we say your thinking is flawed seek therapy, he leaves because it is not what he wants to hear.
Now my post does not contain point by point rebuttals to what you wrote, but does directly address the sum and total of what Pip posted. Due to the fact you do not like my style of response or my emotional nature of response or for that matter what you percieve as my personal issues, let's stay on point and discuss Pip, as this is about his behavior in this situation and not about me. Bob | |
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Posted: 5/11/2008 10:11:57 AM | RIGHT..stop right there!!!
you are what 39 and you are wondering what to do..unbelieveable..look in the mirror and what you will see is a man ..and underneath is a little boy called peter pan who never grew up!
if you have to post to a forum about this..about this problem..you clearly knew from the onset that this lady had low self esteem etc...
also the fact that the words in the 'open' email clearly depicted some of your character that you were being slatted about etc give clues to the matter blah blah blah ....are all men like this Gawd..i hope not ...then you want to further bleat on about an email you think about sending?
grow some balls .. my son is 18 seems more mature than you ...love and when you do then start ...dating women and dont choose a one that ..has low self esteem cause clearly you are clueless around women ..sheesh!!
sorry if you feel you are being picked on i apologise but if you post a thread you got to take the rough with the smooth
take care GG xx | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:26:55 AM | here a poem for you by frank outlaw
it all about character:
watch you thoughts ;
they become words.
watch your words;
they become actions.
watch you actions ;
they become habits.
watch you habits;
they become character.
watch your character;
it becomes your destiny. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 1:21:27 PM | | A general post. I have communicated with PIP directly. There are more facets to the story as was originally told. Perhaps a better way of blending these details in the original post with less details of the letter would have elicited a different response from all and me. I have apologized to him for flaming him. Further for my part I will not devulge those details, that is for PIP, it is after all his story not mine. It is sometimes difficult to convey one's thoughts in a few paragraphs. It is harder still to not make a snap judgement without all the facts. I will try to be more cognizant of that. Bob | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 2:52:45 PM | Pip has asked me to add his note of response to me to the thread so that all may know the complete story. I feel it is necessary to give you a better view of the situation. This combined with the other information he had posted changed my opinion. The rest of you may determine for yourselves what you think. I congratulate him on being so forthright and coming forward despite my and other replies. Bob
Hey... Bob. I do appreciate you coming back. I did try reading it as someone else would and it read as jumbled but by then I'd posted it and I couldnt see any option to go back and edit it.
The sequence of things was Nov till Feb. I dated Alison. Very casually but still exclusively. We had many weekends away, even over to France. Alison is a single mum and her ex doesnt help her with child support. She has a small part time job and gets by.
I never asked her to contribute to any of our dates. I'd sooner her spend her money on her kids. But never once did she even offer to buy me a drink, although I would have refused, the offer would have been nice.
My friend Jane knew this and thought I was being used. She disliked Alison without having met her. Jane had her own issues going on with her own love-life anyway, so it wasnt a case of her wanting me in that way.
The night we all went out as a big group, there were 8 of us. Alison took a female friend of hers with her and they were chatting. Jane knew no-one but me there so I chatted with her a bit. Thats when on two occacsions she put her arm one me. Once when I was sitting down she put it on my shoulders and another time around my waist. I did move away. But the damage had been done.
I told Alison that i hadnt been happy with Janes behavior and it was unusual, but Alison thought there was more to it. I didnt hear from her for a couple of weeks. I phoned her about going out valentines and she said she was dating someone else.
Jane said I was better off without her anyway and rather than sit at home moping, I took Jane away a few times. I never slept with her. Our realtionship was just as friends. The last time away i saw the message she accidentally left open on my laptop. I realised she was being a user, the thing she accused Alison of being. But never offered to partpay either although she has a good job.
I couldnt tell Jane the next day what id seen. She'd have felt awful so i decided just to try and forget it and keep more distance. People often say things in bravado...
It was only in an argument about something else last week, that I eventually mentioned it.
Alison and i had stayed in touch and I told her about this and the message. She invited me over to dinner! She was no longer dating and so we started going out again, but this time I kept things as a friendship level. i was in no rush to jump back into bed with her as much as I cared for her.
Alison has quite a few admirers and when out her phone is constantly bleeping with texts. Here in the UK it is a fr more popular form of communication than in the USA. We have had the facility for many years longer too.
The Friday night I texted her just a couple of times. I intended to leave it at that and tell her the next day. But Saturday i woke to three texts from her to the anon number. She was complaining about feeling unloved and stuck in with her kids, rotting away...She seemed to be enjoying a guessing game, asking for clues. She knew it was a past date of hers and i gave her as many clues as i could. I thought she had guessed. I hoped she had guessed. Also I was away at a wedding in another part of the country that weekend so I had no opportunity to see her and tell her that way.
Its easy to be wise on reflection and it was just one of those spur of the moment mistakes that i didnt think about fully. It also coincided with the problems from Jane sending Alison messages accusing me of hacking her mail! I was feeling pretty low myself that weekend.
I do not want to try and re-kindle a relationship with Alison. I realise that has passed And maybe i've lost her for life as a friend. And I have to respect that she doesnt want me to contact her. But I just wanted her to know that I never set out to intentionally hurt her feelings. I was meant to be taking her to Florida this August. Not an inexpensive trip from the UK. She hasnt had a holiday for 11 years or been in a plane. I just wanted to try and make her happier.
I left POF because the couple of friends i've made on her I contact on msn now and didnt want to draw them in as well as my posts show on my profile.
Thanks for your thoughts and opinions though.
All the best.
Pip.
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:33:50 PM | | look forget jane, she is a bit*h, and obviously not a friend by the way she treated u, and well alison, forget also, she is high maintainence and cant trust u, that might not bother u now but down the track, it would. trust is important in a relationship, and yes it does take a while to build but she hasn't even given u any benefit of the doubt. | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/12/2008 12:07:58 PM | Dear BOB,
Pip shared both his his email to you with me when he returned after reading my response to you, and I can see that you can now understand why I took the line and approach I did. I guess I would say I rest my case...
I wasn't brought up to cut a person down when they are hurting, but to show compassion and reason, justice and equity. Any kind of human cruelty is a sign of weakness. Having a balanced view is always the best one as it enables you to be in a position of empowerment for those leaning on you and not either side of the see-saw: i.e too high on your feickin' horse to help, or reach or toooooo ass-in-the-sand... low to be able to see the 'wood for the trees'.... I am not so unreliable to change my views so radically, because I guess I make informed decisions as a matter of course.
What I will say is that I applaud you BOB for going about face and taking ownership, and revising your views which it takes a man to do, and don't worry I am not looking for an apology... I see it is implied!
LOL
Bob you said, 'Further for my part I will not devulge those details, that is for PIP, it is after all his story not mine.'... You are a conundrum you say one thing and do another, what a complex and chameleon character you have.
As an afterthought, I think it is very naughty of the OP to detail the private lives of other's and the reason I did not post his private emails to me is that they involved other individuals, who I think would be devastated to have such detail exposed.
The fact that you have done so Bob shows poor judgement and collusion, even if you were asked to do so, there is a level I won't stoop to and one of those is not to hurt the innocent...
I would be mortified if my private life was put up in this casual and haphazard way, and I feel that privacy is sacred personally. It is always a surprise to me when such lectures about how important trust is - become inexcusable if the protagonist then betrays the trust of others (Allison with Pip) by broadcasting it without permission. Let us hope the names were changed to protect the identities... | |
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| Help! Should I send her this message?
Posted: 5/12/2008 5:10:45 PM | Sphinx, I am sure you are correct. About everything!! I'm sure it was you who said "let's slice the bread before we sell it". I know why even you live in England, so they don't have to call long distance when they consult you for the correct time in Greenwich. I am neither Chameleon or in collusion, further I wasn't on the grassy knoll. Pip's new membership did not allow him to post for 5 days, he felt it important enough to get the information out to all that posted, that he asked I do so on his behalf. Since no pertinent information other than first names and no addresses were used I felt I was not violating any confidences. Most, not all, of that information was germaine to the story and were indeed characters and stories parts of which were already discussed. However the next note PIP sent me I could NEVER post nor would. No I would not expect you to stoop, you would probably slip and fall from that high pedastal you repose upon and break your a**. Since hopefully I will not return to this thread I will not have the pleasure(snickers) of dealing with your attitude further. I'm sure you will have many kind and wonderful things to say now. I wonder is there a page limit on posts?? (wanders off muttering)....Bob
PS There is no apology implied or otherwise, given the information I had I stood by statements made at the time. My apology was to PIP, mainly because the situation was ambiguous and more information allowed me a better read on the situation. Now before you launch into the next diatribe go back, as I suggested PIP do and read the post where I made reference to you. You will notice I did not write you into some operetic tragedy I simply voiced an opinion that you sounded??? intelligent and was surprised at the opinion posted. You then chose to play Don Quixote and tilt at windmills. | |
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