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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:29:04 PM |
pixeleen : For two years, nothing I did was good enough, then I was so "awful" he left. Inside I kept thinking that I was trying so hard, and I was a nervous wreck wondering when he was going to yell at me next. He had the power over my whole life. Then he left and kept the power. Now, even when I moved back to my home state, 2500 miles away, he has the power. He decides if he will communicate about a divorce agreement, he decides what we will "compromise" on, he decides if he will play games, etc. and he tries to force me to do what he wants and give up my rights. Abuse steals your personal power and leaves you feeling helpless. Even the most successful intelligent women can fall for it. I was a 4.0 GPA, award winning grad student when I gave it up to marry him. Now I'm depressed, lifeless and confused about my future with no way to support myself. I let him bring me down so far that I didn't know how to take care of myself and escape anymore.
.............
Even now, I've received over 60 messages in three days from men on this site, and honestly, I haven't seen a single one that jumps out and says "I'm the one who's different." There are a few that may have potential to be conversationally satisfying, but most of them have nothing in common with what I want for my life. They don't have the zest and spark that I am looking for. My husband did instantly, and I knew from the first time I conversed with him that he was different and he was on my wavelength. I hadn't found that before and I certainly haven't seen it since.
Sweety, i am going to say something you dont like to hear, but it will help you.
You stayed for the abuse, you let him do that.! How stupid can you be?
Finally,
No one has control over you, he was able to abuse you emotionally and physically because YOU enable him, YOU let him.
so
Dont let hm do that! | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:50:09 PM | Not sure why u do what u do, but i know why many of us repeat similar mistakes. I am drawn to women who remind me of my mother. Competent on the outside, yet being abused w/in the confines of their homes/businesses etc. I want to help them AND it also made me feel more adequate/powerful (major bs - that line of reasoning, IF u can refer to it as ANYTHING remotely related to reason). I liked to think i was a rescuer (4 marriages - details upon request).
I keep marrying kissing cousins every single time, which is why i will STAY single until most of my friends agree w/me that the next POTENTIAL spouse IS in fact NOT in need of major rescuing - as opposed to appearing to have so much together.
Please get some GREAT outside help. Seems like your friends haven't been able to help u thru your recurring nightmare. I had to get a LOT of long-term help because i started interweaving my issues in most aspects of my life, which makes it exponentially more difficult to deal with.
BEST help i have found, bottom line, is GOD. Hated HIM/HER/GOD/BEYOND EITHER AND BOTH. All the intense psych svc's/designer drugs, which i no longer use, AND all the support groups/friends/family etc all helped, but GOD ALONE has been the answer all along. Even when i 'hated' any concept/reference to GOD, i was still being LOVED/HEALED/PROTECTED/NURTURED/ENRICHED - EVERY GOOD THING came from/in/with/thru GOD.
Nuff 4 now. More if u r open. Totally up to u. I wish u all the best in every aspect of your life. Hopefully u will start LIVING it for all it is worth - PRICELESS far beyond anyones abilitly to describe/imagine.
Ciao Bella, Joe drat, put myself 2 sleep again. JK just kidding... | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:56:38 PM | Have to agree for the most part, yet want to modify: Please do NOT let anyone do that to u, even yourself, who as Jie Pie said has ultimate control/responsibility for your life.
NOT the oppressive RESPONSIBILITY, but the one which means u have the ABILITY to respond ANY way u wish. Make GREAT choices and when u find one is not so great, make a minor OR MAJOR behavior modification, get your LIFE back on the straight/narrow/tried/true, yes, often difficult, yet SO IMMEASURABLY WORTH IT.
LIVE YOUR LIFE 4 ALL IT IS WORTH, pls do not settle 4 survival/existance etc.
U have been given an INCOMPARABLE LIFE, TREASURE IT 4 ALL IT IS WORTH AND TREAT IT/YOURSELF/EVERYONE ELSE ACCORDINGLY... | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:58:19 PM | | Lessons are repeated until they are learned. until you decide you don't weant to be used and abused it will continue to happen. Rotten guys search for gals that love to play the victim. Until you seek help or manage on your own to say NO to these losers they'll keep sniffing around. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:10:49 PM | Hi Aurielle
I work in violence prevention and have for the past 8 years... I've read some of the posts on here and have noticed that although a number of people have made some great comments.... what people seem to really be missing is what is commonly known as "the Honeymoon Stage" The stage that takes place shortly after the abuse happens.... Where the partner becomes everything they once were "Before" the abuse started happening.... charming, loving, attentive, charasmatic, apologetic, swears it will never ever happen again....
This stage is where the person getting abused, be it female or male... falls into what is commonly referred to as "Learned Hopefullness".... Where they honestly believe with all their heart and soul that things will get better and will go back to where things once were before
They hold on to the deeprooted belief so strong that things will get better, that they are able to overlook the abuse, minimize the behaviour, make excuses for it "He was drunk... he loves me so much that he's jealous.... He can't get by without me" etc etc etc.... that it enables the cycle of violence to continue
What we hope for and what we get are often two very distinct and very different things.... because more often than not the cycle gets worse over time, NOT BETTER.... the abuse escalates .... becoming more and more violent over time.... ie from yelling, name calling, to slamming furniture to a slap across the face to being shoved up against walls to physical full on attacks.... and the honeymoon stages become smaller and smaller.... ie: full out crying sessions of apologies to comments such as "you're too emotional... it wasn't that bad.....
It's a very complex cycle, but if you are finding you can relate to this description of violence, then I strongly encourage you to speak to your local women's centre or shelter or a trusted friend
Abusers typically isolate their partners so that the only reality they know is the abusers.... that is why it is so critically important to find someone you trust "Outside" the relationship who can be supportive, understanding and will not tell you what to do .... who will in fact support you in helping you to decide what to do for yourself....
If we tell someone to leave.... more often than not we actually encourage them to stay.... because instead of encouraging them to leave, we in fact encourage them to make excuses for "their" behaviour because they feel they are being judged.... So when you challenge someone to leave or question why they're still there.... you'll often hear things like ... "You dont' understand him/her the way I do".... I can help him...I truly love him and I think this time will be differetn.... My love for this person can help to change them... He's lead a very difficult life, you don't know everything that happened to them.... He/She does this because they really do love me... If they didn't why would they do this .... the excuses go on and on....
If you know of someone who is in an abusive relationship.... Be it emotional, financial, sexual, physical, emotional.... Don't challenge them.... Simply ask how they feel about the abuse and allow them to talk about those feelings.... or encourage them to talk to someone who is educated around abuse so they don't feel isolated or alone
I'll be happy to answer any questions folks may have.... Feel free to drop me a line if you have any other questions about this often misunderstood dynamic
Regards all
DTE | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:33:42 PM | I AGREE WITH LOZ HUNTER SOMETHING SHE SAID IS TRUE I WENT TO A MARRIAGE COUENCOLR AND I WAS IN THE SAME SITUATION,AND ITS CALLED CODEAPENDANTCY GET A BOOK CALLED WOMAN WHO LOVE TO MUCH ITS ABOUT WOMAN LIKE US TRUST ME IVE PASSED THE BOOK ON TO OTHER WOMAN AND ITS HELPED THEM AND I MYSELF HAS HAD NOT ONE ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP,ITS THE CHALLENGE THAT PEOPLE LIKE TILL THEY GET IT THEN THEY CAN TREAT US ANYWAY,BECAUSE WE ALLOW IT YOU HAVE TO BREAK THE CYCLE ,FIST SIGN OF ANY ABUSIVE WILL USUALEY START VERBAL THAN GETS PHYSICAL AND CAN BE DEADLEY,I ALMOST LOST MY LIFE,READ THE BOOK MAKE YOU A LIST ABOUT THE GUY YOU LIKE RIGHT ALL THE GOOD ON ONE SIDE ABOUT HIM THAN ALL THE BAD THE ONE THAT OUTWEIGHS THE MOST LETS YOU KNOW WEATHER TO CONTINUE ARE DROP THE RELATIONSHIP,I ALWAYS ANALIZE WITHIN A MONTH,I WOMAN FEEL SELFWORTH BECAUSE OF MEN,NOT GOOD ENOUGH BUT REMEMBER YOU ARE A CHILD OF GOD AND HE DONT MAKE JUNK,HE ONLY WANTS THE BEST FOR HIS GURLS,GOD BLESS,BARBARA | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:46:13 PM | We forgive them because it is easier to do that than to have the strength to kick them to the curb. When we learn to love ourselves more than them, we get rid of the abuse. I know I was in a marriage for 34 years to a man who would beat me told me I was stupid, fat and ugly, still accused me of cheating on him ( which did not happen). I got the courage to kick him out when he drew a 9mm on my and told me he was going to let me feel what hurting was all about. I called the police and he has not been in my life since. I have now divorced him, took 1/2 his pension and have a way better, happier life. I took his beating but I was not willing to die for him. Karma will take care of men like this.
Patti | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:55:40 PM | | We go back because abusive men are also very good at manipulation. Abuse does not start on the first date - if it did, there would not be a second. There is a pattern and it involves destroying your defences and your support system. If those are weak to begin with, it is that much easier. Once the defences are broken down, the abuse starts to become more obvious, but it is much more difficult to get out. You are stronger than you know. You are braver than you realize. You are smarter than you imagine. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:05:17 PM | You just happen to respond to abusive men. The charming and promising things I can relate to I recently went back to a guy that was not physcially but emotionially abusive and such a player, maybe like with him I was more attracted to the fun, and yes to me at the time fun was important....but I know that in a lot of abusive situations the woman stay and go back due to fear of the unknow, at least they know what to expect with this guy..
Regardless of why we do what we do...its a fact that we are attracted to things that are not good for us....despite that sometimes things happen and sometime clicks and you have to realize that you are the only one that can change things.
I wish youn all the luck. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:36:03 AM | The last time I was abused I transferred the unhappy feelings I got from it onto another person, who told me they never wanted to speak/type/hear from me again.
I swear, never again will I put myself in a position to let someone put me down, make me feel less than or treat me with such disrespect that I have to rebuild *who* I am in my mind.
I realised, it is an addiction and that I was addicted to the highs and lows - familiar with it for my entire life, not realising that it is not a part of me, but a result of what I purposely draw into my life. I lost a very special friend in gaining an insite into this knowledge.
Sometimes you have choices where you can choose not to put yourself with someone who is an abuser, sometimes you don't (like in a situation where your ex is still involved with you because of children, in my case business). I read a great book called A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, in it he calls the experience of the pain that abuse brings us as being a *pain body*. He teaches how to acknowledge this pain as not being a part of who you are and how to let it go.... OP, and others it is a good read and it has helped me a great deal.
Give it a read, perhaps it could help you also. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:26:43 AM |
Hi Aurielle
I work in violence prevention and have for the past 8 years... I've read some of the posts on here and have noticed that although a number of people have made some great comments.... what people seem to really be missing is what is commonly known as "the Honeymoon Stage" The stage that takes place shortly after the abuse happens.... Where the partner becomes everything they once were "Before" the abuse started happening.... charming, loving, attentive, charasmatic, apologetic, swears it will never ever happen again....
This stage is where the person getting abused, be it female or male... falls into what is commonly referred to as "Learned Hopefullness".... Where they honestly believe with all their heart and soul that things will get better and will go back to where things once were before
They hold on to the deeprooted belief so strong that things will get better, that they are able to overlook the abuse, minimize the behaviour, make excuses for it "He was drunk... he loves me so much that he's jealous.... He can't get by without me" etc etc etc.... that it enables the cycle of violence to continue
What we hope for and what we get are often two very distinct and very different things.... because more often than not the cycle gets worse over time, NOT BETTER.... the abuse escalates .... becoming more and more violent over time.... ie from yelling, name calling, to slamming furniture to a slap across the face to being shoved up against walls to physical full on attacks.... and the honeymoon stages become smaller and smaller.... ie: full out crying sessions of apologies to comments such as "you're too emotional... it wasn't that bad.....
It's a very complex cycle, but if you are finding you can relate to this description of violence, then I strongly encourage you to speak to your local women's centre or shelter or a trusted friend
Abusers typically isolate their partners so that the only reality they know is the abusers.... that is why it is so critically important to find someone you trust "Outside" the relationship who can be supportive, understanding and will not tell you what to do .... who will in fact support you in helping you to decide what to do for yourself....
If we tell someone to leave.... more often than not we actually encourage them to stay.... because instead of encouraging them to leave, we in fact encourage them to make excuses for "their" behaviour because they feel they are being judged.... So when you challenge someone to leave or question why they're still there.... you'll often hear things like ... "You dont' understand him/her the way I do".... I can help him...I truly love him and I think this time will be differetn.... My love for this person can help to change them... He's lead a very difficult life, you don't know everything that happened to them.... He/She does this because they really do love me... If they didn't why would they do this .... the excuses go on and on....
If you know of someone who is in an abusive relationship.... Be it emotional, financial, sexual, physical, emotional.... Don't challenge them.... Simply ask how they feel about the abuse and allow them to talk about those feelings.... or encourage them to talk to someone who is educated around abuse so they don't feel isolated or alone
I'll be happy to answer any questions folks may have.... Feel free to drop me a line if you have any other questions about this often misunderstood dynamic
Regards all
DTE
I've covered all of these issues in previous posts, but I've done it trying to avoid some of the esoteric terminology.
The tools of the abuser often resemble those of the seducer. For example, isolating his victim so she is totally dependent upon him . For those who are interrested in this technique you might read Errol Flynn's book "My Wicked Wicked Ways."
Abusers are master manipulators and they rely on a weakness that is common among many women namely they believe they can change a man. Whenever the abuser hurts a woman either physically or emotionally, he profusely apologizes and promises to her and swears to God that it will never happen again. Of course this cycle of behavior repeats itself.
This is essentially what you refer to as Learned Hopefulness. The woman forgives him for the abuse because she thinks that he has a valid reason or excuse for behaving the way he did. Herein is her hope that she'll help him change because somehow she'll change or ameliorate the circumstance that triggered his bad behavior.
Unfortunately, for her, there are reasons for his behavior, but she'll never be able to do anything about any of them. Even the abuser is trapped in a psychological nitemare, like the abused, from which he is unlikely to escape.
Although it is extremely difficult, I believe the abused has a much better chance of recognizing the problem, leaving the situation, and eventually restoring her emotional health. I was a career Navy officer, and I have met many abusive men over my lifetime. I can't recall one who ever changed his ways or really had any insight into his problem. Most of them were drunks who lead miserable lives dying alone.
The Eagle | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:41:27 AM |
1. Abusive guys are egocentric. The world literally revolves around themselves.
2. Abusive dudes are controlling. They want to know where the woman is and what she's doing at all times, but don't want her to know what they're up to.
3. Abusive guys have usually been abused themselves.
4. Abusive guys have strong presuppositions about men's and women's roles, eg: "Women should never embarrass the men they're with." "Men should be the decision-makers in all cases." "Women should always submit to men." "Women shouldn't talk so much."
5. Abusive guys rationalize their behavior positively and the behavior of those who disagree with them negatively.
6. Abusive dudes usually have substance abuse problems (alcohol and/or drugs)
7. Abusive dudes don't recognize and handle stress in positive ways. The abuse largely serves to relieve tension.
8. Abusive dudes tend to project their own perceived weaknesses and flaws onto their significant others.
9. Abusive dudes minimize their lack of self-control and the extent of their violence.
10. Abusive dudes haven't resolved the abuse they received themselves (sometimes years ago) so they don't know how to stop abusing without feeling powerless.
These are the typical, obvious signs, but I want to say that in my experience, there were others that seemed completely unlikely. These signs didn't come out until later and even then, they weren't obvious. My husband wanted to wait on me hand and foot. He did everything for me and he said his life revolved around me. It really did! Even when I encouraged him to pursue his own good and own interests, all he cared about was mine. Oddly, this was the sign of abuse. He had very low self-esteem and sometimes I felt like he didn't have his own personality. He lived his life through me and my emotions. He spent his life trying to make me happy so that I would in turn make him happy. So, when I had a bad day, he had no use for me and hated me. He never saw me as a human, but as a tool to make him feel good. I don't want to re-write everything here, but I encourage people to read my post concerning codependents who are abusers. It shows how a man can be manipulating and abusive by being too nice. Now, when I see men's profiles that say they like to spoil a lady, I wonder if they have ulterior motives or if they are thinking of women as objects to enhance themselves. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/12/2008 11:07:01 AM | | abusers come in both sexes, tho probably less frequent in women, the abused mate goes back thinking we will be the one to recieve that miricle that they will change, and we just keep letting that feeling deep down in the pit of our stomach (that tells us it's not going to happen) eat at us instead of listening to it and using our brain.....abusers are always great at controlling and manipulating.....the more times you sucker for it, the stronger hold they get on you | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/12/2008 4:56:53 PM | | wish i read this before i posted my thread to trust or not. mine was the verbal abuser. i was the depressed one because i was on meds from my injury. i had been alone for years so i didnt know how to be a wife. it was all blamed on me. now i am beginning to see!!!! oh, but the shelters dont really help you in small towns. you only have a short time to be there but if you cant work because of an injury forget it, you cant get in as you have to find work and a place to live in three months time. i have my own place now but live on less than 200.00 per month. no one helped me to get it or put things in it. i still need a bed and food. i will not go on welfare!!!!! i will not give my ex the satisfaction of that!!!!! women go back because it is too hard to live alone if you have no family or friends. i keep my strength up by praying hard for help. it doesnt come, but the praying makes me feel good. patricia | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:28:00 PM | | ppssnow, you have more friends than you know..... it's abuser 101,,, isolate the victim,drive off anyone who might helpand make the victim think they have no one who cares about them or would help, the truth is, depending on the abuser, you can actually put others in danger, but there are always ones who are willing to risk it if you have the guts to follow thru with whatever it takes to get away, even sending them to prison | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:58:20 AM | ^^Dream4one: your statement is not helpful. This indifferent "no one here can tell you what you should do" statement is tantamount to ignoring what can be a fatal situation. If someone is being abused in a relationship, that person needs to be encouraged to get out of there as much as possible. It's not OK to say nothing and hope the situation resolves itself. It may not "come in time" that someone will be ready to leave if her loved ones don't encourage her to get out. The woman could be DEAD by then.
We all understand that a woman may not have the will to leave a bad situation right away, but she should be encouraged again and again to leave until she does. That is what makes sense. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:12:58 AM | | It is my understanding that women who are abused and can't leave the guy typically have extremely low self worth. The relationship has shifted so greatly, that they often mistake the emotion of dependence for love. The prospect of being alone frightens them so much that it becomes extremely difficult to walk away. There is a way out, but it takes a lot of courage to make that first step. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:57:54 AM | | They want to have sex with you because they don't like you. They don't respect you. They want to debase you, then run like a coward, or stick around and insult you. If they like you, then they wouldn't want sex with you, because they would respect you. This is why there are so many divorces now, because sexuality is place so highly in a committed relationship, but after a while, they learn that sex is to be done with an inferior, and they will treat you like this. The only way to gain a guy's respect is not have sex with them. They can run around and debase other women... let them. Just stay friends. They will respect you more. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:22:51 AM |
We are talking about abuse to women. Those women who don't want abuse have to change themselves to escape from it. Their problem is with themselves not the abuser, and once they understand this and leave the situation the abuser is no longer their problem.
I agree with this statement, the abused needs to look at what draws them into situations where they are being abused. No matter what, the abused has to take responsibility for making a change in order to stop the abuse from happening, otherwise he/she will wind up finding another abuser. I personally came from a disfunctional home where I was abused, I wound up in abusive relationships, until I came to terms with the why I did it. It takes a lot of work and self reflection to do this.
So in short, I'm not responsible for your happiness or anybody else's
This is where I agree with you to *some* extent and may I add to this statement:
"I am not responsible for your hapiness or anybody else's, however *I* am responsible for the actions I take that affect another's happiness!"
The latter is where the abuser must be held accountable imo. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/13/2008 1:32:30 PM | Well Hello, I have been where u are? We dont leave them, because they make us feel worthless- treat us like we can get no one but them... My ex husband, put me in the hospital 3 times, and I had a 6 miscarraiges from him with his help. (baseball bats, throwing down stairs, punching, , handcuffing me to the bathroom sink, while he went out, horrific shit) I know, I am 34 years old, now and still in therapy. I fell into a deep depression, and I have had open brain surgery because of him, u take a self defese course, hang out with positive ppl, tell someone, even if its just me you need to vent! It takes time, but the first thing you have to do is enroll in a self defense course, tell him its yoga or something.....I did...and keep the communication lines open, you must have friends or parents you can talk to when he is not around, if you dont do this soon-he will end up putting you in a whaco ward or worse, cause he feeds on power, I know this is hard-but trust me, u can talk to me anytime.........D stay strong-play his game until you are ready.... | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:06:37 AM | Ok... I have to stir this up a bit because hearing people regurgitating feminist propaganda crap makes me want to puke.
because they have sapped every bit of self worth from you
because they make us feel worthless WRONG.
We stay because we love them and hope things will get better. I've been there too. Although the visits to the emergency ward made me feel humiliated, they didn't make me feel worthless. If you felt worthless, it's because of your own actions or lack thereof.
Let's blame ALL our failings on the convenient choice. That's crap.
stay strong-play his game until you are ready Are you fvcking crazy lady? This is not a time to plan and try and try to get your ducks in a row so you can come out smelling better. Get the fvck out NOW! That is.... unless you want to build up a head of sympathy steam first.
DownToEarthGirl101 knows what she's talking about. At first the honeymoon phase comes right away, the next time it's a little longer. Eventually, it doesn't come and you can wait a lifetime and it'll never show up. | |
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:02:31 AM | To find a nice one (man) you need to look within yourself, and your passed, once you have delt with all that has happened and put this in perspective, put it all behind you, spend quality time alone, then you will be able to move on and find a great & wonderful man.
You go back, because you feel quilty, and like you have done something to make the abuse happen, this is insecurity.
To make yourself stronger, if you cannot get therapy, I suggest reading a few books on the subject, there are tons, if you do not get it, read the book again! lol
Remember it is not hard if you are ready to do something about it, take the first step, by a book go to Timmy's alone and read. Forget about men for awhile.
Good Luck!
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| Abusive men, why do we forgive and go back? Please help.
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:05:40 AM |
At first the honeymoon phase comes right away, the next time it's a little longer. Eventually, it doesn't come and you can wait a lifetime and it'll never show up.
Very similar to an alcoholic and drinking.... first drunk is usually a blast, second time you wake up hurting but had a good time, all subsequent times, you keep looking for the first result, but wind up hurting more.
By gosh, I think there may be something to the fact that we are just as easily addicted to pain as we are to drugs and alchohol. | |
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