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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/12/2008 11:10:00 PM | Thank you all for your wisdom and understanding. I don't necessarily think I'm depressed because I've never been one to stay in a slump for too long.
I think I'm just a bit unsure, and confused. The 20's are good for that I suppose. I actually had the oppertunity to speak with one of my Uncle's who happens to be Christian and a mentor to me. He simply agreed with what a lot of you have stated. That it's okay to be friends with non Christians, just make sure they don't pull you down etc.
It isn't more of them pulling me down, it's more of myself still enjoying the life I lead when I wasn't under my "covering" lol. I just like to have my cake and eat it too I guess.
I know now not to harm myself in things that I know God doesn't think is right for me. But I don't want to completely cut myself off from having fun and limiting myself to boring Christian friends as well. (jk) I'm more afraid of people thinking that some of the things I enjoy as sin. I just want to be guilt free. I was only guilt free when I wasn't under all the scruitiny.
Believe me, if you were enjoying life and someone came up and pointed out that God doesn't like it, you would be afraid too. I tried to make a turn around, and I thank God for that "intervention" but I also don't want to live my life tiptoeing.
Thanks again everyone for all your help. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/12/2008 11:48:43 PM | racheljay, try not to think of it as having to avoid certain things.
Everything is, because it could be. It simply needs to have it's own place.
You can live a fulfilling life by looking at things and understanding where their place can be in your life and this can help you grow.
Just try not to think of things as whether you should avoid them or not. Use them to your advantage without doing harm to yourself or others. Much of that can be done simply through development of your perception of things.
If you can find a way to relate everything to yourself in a way that is beneficial to your direction, you will probably find your happiness.
Good luck racheljay. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 12:22:15 AM | | It sounds to me like you need to experience God for real on a personal level and not just doing it because people force you into it. He is real and when you know Him for real, you have perfect peace, perfect love, and tremendous happiness. I despise Religion for this reason because Religion will make you depressed. I suggest talking to Him and asking Him for His wisdom. Trust me...He will show you His love and wisdom. When you realize truth, then it will not matter what others think. You will be happy because you love Jesus more than anyone or anything as well as loving yourself more than anyone or anything. After you attain this, you will have no fear and your confidence will shine. I will pray and believe for you. May God bless you abundantly beyond your fondest dreams! | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:42:02 AM | I've been watching this thread and simply can't keep quiet any more. I'm not a Christian, however i was indoctrinated at a very early age. I was scared into believing i was no good and going to hell. From what you say i'm assuming you are in a pentecostal church.
All i can say is get out and far away from anyone who goes their even if they are your loved ones. They will poison your mind depression is just the beginning. Your whole life will be controlled. I'm not saying don't love your parents and all that. Just do it at a distance.
Also get some counselling, find a counsellor who is educated in indoctrination and it's effects. Do not feel bad about any of the behavioural problems you have had in the past nor the sexual issues you've talked about, these are in reaction to your upbringing. Also understand your parents mean well but they are indoctrinated and even though they want the best for you they will not see past their faith. Everything they say will be filtered by the beliefs they were fed by their church.
Their is nothing wrong with you, and the sooner you remove yourself from the church and get some proper guidance from a trained professional you will begin to see. good luck. You can write me personally on this matter as i have a lot of experience and would appreciate no hate mail or conversion letters from any other Christians. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:35:31 AM | I think religion can cause depression, anxiety, and other negative mental states, especially if the emotional ambience in the religious group is abusive, manipulative, and toxic. Generally, religions profess to aim to heal the soul of its wounds and anxieties, and also cultivate a better set of emotional and mental states which are healthy. Eastern religious meditation for example, tries to develop states of conciousness which move away from emotions like lust, anger and hatred to ones filled with kindness and compassion. Christian, Islamic and Jewish prayers seem to try and do the same thing, by cultivating an awareness of God's prescence, which allows the believer to overcome their selfishness and egoism and develop a better self focused on a deeper sense of identity and integrity and whose relationship to God is shown by their actions (which reflect the love and justice God has to all).
You should try and join a Christian fellowship and prayer group which encourages the core values at the heart of Orthodox Christianity, such as love of one's neighbour, charity, justice, compassion, faithfulness and reasonable self-control.
A guilty conscience may be a sign there is some moral act which needs examination. Sexual morality is a complex area theologically speaking, and different Christian denominations have different viewpoints on sex. However, the focus of Christian ethical thinking is that sex occurs in loving relationships between two people, usually in the marital relationship. One should resolve an issue on one's conscience by either prayer or confession of the sin(s) involved, along with genuine penitence about the wrong done and the harm inflicted to oneself or to other people. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:16:45 AM | Great post greg8002,
I just wanted to add that some guilt can also be an imposed from the outside. Generally from family and loved ones that you feel the need for acceptance from. When you are with a group of people who are acting out or rebelling to their own upbringing or conditioning there are less inhibition's and that can be very alluring because of the level of acceptance and intimacy that is associated with it. So while some may see this as a negative thing it is in fact an attempt to regain the internal power that has been taken away with a complete lack of acceptance from the people who were supposed to love and accept us.
From a biblical sense one needs to understand that 'sin' is missing the mark and not the negative undertones that religion has given it. From that stand point we all have definitely missed the mark. I don't see this as something we need to confess or pray about. It is something we need to come to terms with. We are human and through the best intentions we will miss the mark more often then not. If your anything like me you'd beat yourself up at the thought of hurting anyone else. But the fact is especially if we have indoctrinated loved ones we will always fall short of their view of right and wrong.
A question that needs to be looked at is are we falling short or are the people who supposedly love us fall short by not accepting us the way we are? Is it not true that you would do anything for their love and acceptance? Even go to church and try to fit in? Would they give this up for your acceptance and love? If not then the relationship is unevenly yoked... It would seem that you are being more of a Christian then they are by showing them how much you love them.
As greg mentioned there are some religious sects and fellowships that don't manipulate and abuse their members and are more humanistic in their approach to relating. If you believe in god look around and find your place. and when anyone asks you about god etc... just say that is between you and god and leave it at that. If the conversation continuously goes in that direction it is a clear indication they are not interested in you unless you fit their mould of godliness. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 1:11:39 PM |
scorpiomover
Depression is possible. But it needs you to be totally self-absorbed, and far more interested in your own life than other people's, and this is coming from someone who has had depression for many years.
skypoetone
Depression, imo, is bought on by a lack of self-worth...
So, depression is caused by being self-absorbed and/or a lack of self worth? Silly doctors and scientists seem to think it has something to do with brain chemistry. Imagine! You guys need to call some of 'em up and educate 'em.
UglyBetsy
The only words you can know for sure have the authority of God are the ones you find in Scripture.
nutn2lose
God loves you! He knows every sin you have committed and will ever commit.
Um... do I really need to say anything? Those who pretend to speak for god are not only fools, but liars as well, by their own definition (his thoughts are not your thoughts).
All in all, as a long time forum stalker (yes, I enjoy the absurd), I believe I can say that this thread is, by percentage of foolish posts, the most ignorant and disappointing I have encountered.
OP - Please define your terms - otherwise, all sorts of foolishness inevitably creeps in.
Clinical depression is often unrelated to circumstance, and is not causally related to either self-absorbtion or low self-esteem any more than autumn Sundays are causally related to NFL football. (see, e.g, "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness" by William Styron, in which the celebrated author sinks into a deep depression on his way to France to pick up an award for his writing. )
Religion, though not easily defined, is nevertheless usually translated in these fora to mean christian monotheism, just as scripture is usually understood to mean the christian bible.
I think your heart knows, OP - listen to it and you will be fine. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:33:38 PM |
Silly doctors and scientists seem to think it has something to do with brain chemistry. Imagine! You guys need to call some of 'em up and educate 'em.
Thats a good idea! We do it all the time. A Doctor or Scientist is only a man by the way, who has learned from other men. Where do you think the wisdom that they have originally derives? Most of them know the truth and yet won't succumb to losing their $$$ by admitting it.
"It's harder for a rich man to enter Heaven than to pass a camel through the eye of a needle"
"For the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God"
Those two are Scripture!
"It's better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
That one was Abraham Lincoln...and I believe it was meant for the absurdities that are shared by folks like you in this forum. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:47:28 PM | I imagine brain chemistry is very complicated, and states caused by unbalanced brain chemistry are brought on by varieties of situations just as complicated.
Patterns in diet and stimulus are two things off the top of my head that I can think of that trigger adaptive neurochemistry. Our brain is just trying to establish an equilibrium with what's being provided to it.
With the right diet a person can fight depression.
Stimulus on the other hand can be harder to control. I think that involves a restructuring of mental perspective towards the stimulus to balance it, rather than avoiding all stimulus.
Sometimes lives fraught with negative events are lead by the happiest of people, demonstrating a large variety of creeds. Possibly it's all in their perspective. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:06:25 AM |
"It's harder for a rich man to enter Heaven than to pass a camel through the eye of a needle"
Then there's a helluva lot of Christians out there who are going to have a hard time getting through the pearly gates.
Vancer, I agree with what you said regarding depression. The right diet, with plenty of omega 3's coupled with cognitive therapy [which is basically learning to "live in the moment"] is certainly beneficial. Avoiding booze and drugs and getting regular excersise does'nt hurt either. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:29:27 AM | | In my opinion your depression is created by surrendering your mind, body & soul over to an entity (this church and it's people) and not following your true will. You can still be a Christian and not be involved with this RADICAL of a church. This kind of indocrination is brainwashing and parasitic. Please find a church that does not thrive on hell, fire and damnation. You can serve God by doing a little volunteer work for the helpless in this world (visit a nuring home or work or volunteer for an animal shelter) and still "serve the Lord", if you will. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:16:48 AM |
Then there's a helluva lot of Christians out there who are going to have a hard time getting through the pearly gates.
What Jesus was actually saying was that it was impossible for man to accomplish his own redemption no matter how well he followed the law, sooner or later the high requirements of the law would supercede man's ability to be righteous and disqualify him as being able to enter the kingdom of God.
It always helps to read a little further in the book...and hear what Christ has concluded regarding mankind's salvation.
Mark 10
26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
Did you catch that? No man can save himself by following the law, it is impossible.
So actually no one will make it to heaven by doing the works of the law or by being a good little christian...as no christian enters the kingdom of God either if they take the same approach of self righteousness through the works of the law. Only in Christ is the veil of Moses removed, and only in Christ is there a hope of being free from the judgment and accusations that are brought upon mankind through the law.
The problem with the law is that it exalts man in righteousness by his own abilities and thus creates a pecking order among men, however the problem of self righteousness is not solved, in fact it encourages self righteousness. And there is no place in the kingdom of God for self righteousness. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:24:56 AM |
So actually no one will make it to heaven by doing the works of the law or by being a good little christian...as no christian enters the kingdom of God either if they take the same approach of self righteousness through the works of the law. Only in Christ is the veil of Moses removed, and only in Christ is there a hope of being free from the judgment and accusations that are brought upon mankind through the law.
The problem with the law is that it exalts man in righteousness by his own abilities and thus creates a pecking order among men, however the problem of self righteousness is not solved, in fact it encourages self righteousness. And there is no place in the kingdom of God for self righteousness.
Beautiful comment- thank you, consigliere31 . | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:51:26 PM | I think your depression results from guilt, shame and fear. Although Jesus wanted to relieve this for us, a lot of people missed the point.
Consider when He said: "Do not judge and you will not be judged, do not condemn and you will not be condemned."
also, "Woe to you teachers of religious law, for you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them".
-Luke 11:46
A funny thing happens when a church allows the religious spirit in, people get judgemental, self-rightous and hold contempt in their hearts. If you read through Jesus' life, his deeds and his sermons, He was advising against this type of thing.
I'm sure the woman was sincere when she was trying to help you and give advice, but in doing so, she inadvertedly triggered shame and guilt in you.
I highly doubt God would ever tell you to dump your friends. He wants to win them over too. How will He do that if you cut ties with them? Keep your friends, go in amonst them by all means, but also know that once Christ starts to live in you, you will get bored of the things of old, (meaning when they invite you to party or sexual things, you may not feel like it anymore) but don't worry, you won't miss it. You will then start to crave meaningful conversations with like minded people, and look for them.
This transition period is hard, but you will get through it, trust Him. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:04:47 PM | Hello racheljay.
I do not believe that it is your faith cousing you the problems of depresen more the people you are fellowshiping with.
Reading what you have writen it sounds to me as though you are a member of the NT or similer. I was a member for ten years so know where you are comming from, I still have a few hang ups that they left me with, but I left that church and am now in a very lively church, where no one judges another or puts restraints on another. The Good Lord took you the way you are warts and all.
He never wants you to be unhappy, he wants you to have joy in your heart, His joy, we are all sinners and fall short of the mark, and I am there with them I too have slipped, But its much better when you have fellowship with thoes that say oh you poor thing here let me help you up and dust you off. Patch up your scratches and help you on your way. The sort of people that will share your burdends not drown you in them.
If you are given a profetic word? was it confirmed ? The Good Lord always confirms.
Stay strong My sister, If you want I will be here for you I will share your burden willingly. If you want to talk just msg me and I will give you my phone number. If you want me to come see you I will come. May the Good Lord Bless and keep you May He make his face to shine upon you. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:43:04 PM | Ah....no....
I'd say the prophecy was pretty much on.
No body ever really enjoys moving from one level to the next.
I suspect that if you 'backslid' and returned to your former lifestyle that you'd be equally unhappy'
Your generation wasn't meant to sit inside a church....I'm thinking you should be part of the radical youth movement that's coming...They do church OUTSIDE the four walls Take it to the streets and do things that make pew warmers uncomfortable.
I'm thinking that's your true call and destiny.... | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:56:24 PM | I was raised in the Catholic church and spent many Sundays with my best friends church. My children had thier original sin washed away. Then somewhere I lost faith. I never let my grandparents or children know. My kids were exposed to several religions. Bible summer camps and Christian pre-schools but I do not believe there is a God. My ex husband does. We went to church on the holidays and sent out the Christmas cards. Then one day my daughter asked my if I believed in God. She was about 12 years old. She does not believe my son does.
My mother is destroyed and has cried tears about how we will be seperated in the afterlife. I will be burning in hell. My best friend is a Southern Baptist. Just 2 weeks ago we sat on top of the Grand Canyon and he was telling me how he hopes Jesus saves me. He does not believe he will ever see me when I die. My sister in law is uber religious and my mother compares me to her regularly. The fact that her kids drink alcohol and dropped out of school make no difference because they are Christians. A lot of Christian use the bible as a catch all where I actually do things to help people less fortunate. I do things for my community and the needy because it feels good not to get me through the pearly gates. I live by my moral code so I can rest my head at night. I know Mother Theresa was good and Son of Sam is bad but according to you Christians she is in hell and he is going to heaven. If there is a God and he is forgiving he will do the right thing in the end. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:25:45 PM | | Rachel, I have been in the exact situation you are in. I know what it is like to be the Prodigal Son come home to Jesus only to find lonliness and misery. I was depressed and miserable and all the words of prophecy, wisdom, being slain in the Spirit, etc, did nothing for me. It is not you and it is not Christianity. It is how you are interpreting the things that are being said to you. The first thing you need to do is get away from Pentecostals/Charismatics. Seriously. I found out much of that super-spirituality they talked about was not even a reality to them. You have to realize that God loves you and does not expect you to be something you are not. He loves you the way you are. You are trying to live up to some expectation that you think God has of you, but He does not. He loves you like you are. Imperfect. When you realize that, then you can really love God. Try to pick up a book called "Blue like Jazz" by Donald Miller. It will unconfuse you about our role as Christians. Lastly, just be honest with God. Don't pray what you think your supposed to pray. Pray what is on your heart and mind. If you are confused, tell Him you need His guidance. The more you go to God, rather than people who claim to know what God wants, the better off you will be. Trust me. Contact me if you want. I really have been there. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:53:05 PM | Did you really backslide OP, if you did what made you all of a sudden believe that Jesus was the Savior again? Did you believe at one time Jesus was the Savior and then decide He wasn't? And now you believe He is the Savior again.....Sounds pretty confusing to me. I would say that you never actually believed He was the Savior in the first place . Possibly you don't even believe Jesus is the Savior now either.
I guess what I am wondering is when did you first believe that Jesus was the Savior and when did you stop believing Jesus was the Savior...and if you stopped believing Jesus was the Savior, then what changed your mind that He is now the Savior again.
I wonder this because you are defying the scriptures that say that those who fall away from the faith that Christ is the Savior, cannot be renewed again to repentance. But yet somehow you are claiming that you have been renewed again to repentance and you now believe that Jesus is the Savior once again.
Do you even believe that Jesus is the Savior now is my question? Because I see no evidence that you do. However I see all kinds of evidence that you seem to think you can save yourself by your own actions and good deeds, which to me is a denial of seeing the need for Christ in our life. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/16/2008 5:08:11 PM | When feeling down just watch Dancing Storm Trooper for a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7X9MQi7uOU
He may not be a good guy. But he makes people happy. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:57:40 PM | Funny how depression never entered my personal world untill I started to believe in the Bible and Christ. Oh, I got down at times, yet could always rationalise things away. It was a few years after that I started to believe that depression hit me and hard at that.
The core of most of my depression was not post traumatic related to past stress`s and expieriences but rather the emptiness I felt at believeing in things unseen, and realizing finally that the faith seemed mispent, waste of time if you will.
All this talk about " back sliding" , guilt, references to it being caused because of sin. Sheesh, there are guilty murderers who have recieved forgiveness and feel the joy described here ! Typical I think, always some Christian who wants you to feel guilty the rest of your life, claims your depression is because you are not rightous enough!
Well, I think its all bull, just my personal beliefs. I did some bad things prior to my conversion , but always in my own little mind for the right reasons, so could rationalise things accordingly. After my conversion, there were Christians who wanted me to feel bad about those things that Christ him self had forgiven me for ! Also to be fair, I have met lots of Christians who have supported me in my struggle.
But it is true that religion can and does cause depression. Just follow what Christ taught, not what some so called Christian teaches, for they very well might be false prophets. Forget those that claim that your depression is because of some sin. For Christ has forgiven you, just as he did the man on the Cross beside him when he died.
We live in a world it seems that those that reap, reap, and those that sow will always sow without reaping. God sure doesnt go out of his way, it seems at times, to prove his promises are kept. To not be discouraged at times over this at times , I think, indicates you dont realy have faith in the first place that they will be. It is human, it is natural and it is the very essence of faith.
To have doubts , but still believe. Those doubts, will cause depression at times, but only if you really believe and have faith that these promises are real. Do you ever get disappointed over a liar breaking his promise to you?
You do, when you doubt someone you believe in though. Just my humble take on things is all. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/17/2008 12:25:04 AM | Some of us are just chemically prone to depression no matter what we believe. I am convinced that the depression the OP is talking about is how she is interpreting the info being fed to her. That was my problem. Christians definetly do not help. Right now there is a group who are trying to boycott Starbucks over a cartoon mermaid whose breasts are exposed. I saw the pic, and it is harmless. All the wrongs being done in America and that is how they are wasting their time.
Incidentally, someone recommended a great book here quite a while back called "When Bad Christians happen to good people". It is excellent. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:48:07 AM |
Right now there is a group who are trying to boycott Starbucks over a cartoon mermaid whose breasts are exposed. I saw the pic, and it is harmless. All the wrongs being done in America and that is how they are wasting their time.
Reminds me when Justin Timberlake exposed Janet Jacksons breast. The over reaction that followed pretty much summed up the perversely unbalanced ethics of mainstream USA.
This happened at a time when Iraqi kids were being slaughterd by American bombs, but apparently a part of the human body was a bigger threat to the moral fibre. | |
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| depression brought on by Christianity?
Posted: 5/17/2008 2:17:14 AM |
All this talk about " back sliding" , guilt, references to it being caused because of sin. Sheesh, there are guilty murderers who have recieved forgiveness and feel the joy described here ! Typical I think, always some Christian who wants you to feel guilty the rest of your life, claims your depression is because you are not rightous enough!
excellent post Dunrich.
for the record if anyone actually wants to investigate the term 'backslidden' they will find that it is only applicable in the Old testament, and is not a term that is apllicable towards anyone who is saved or born again, nor is it even a New Testament term. In the legalistic sense it is impossible to backslide if you are a christian....falling away from the faith on the other hand, is a completely different situation, and this has nothing to do with becoming ensnared into sinful behavior or lifestyle. Falling away from the faith is when a person rejects the blood of Christ as having the power to purify sin and turns back to seeking thier own self righteousness. And as scripture says, those who reject the blood of Christ after having partaken in the goodness of the gospel and have understood it, and turn back to the legalistic self righteousness of the law, it is impossible to renew them back to believing that the Savior is sufficient for them. Of course all things are possible with God, but regardless if they do return then they have to return to the good news of grace and return back to the cross and repent of thier doubt in the Savior's atonement for sin. | |
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