| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:09:02 AM | i think i may not have clearly stated you actually see them doing the afore mentioned crimes would you then deciede to take action or look the other way.
myself personally i would do everything i can to deal out justice as i see fit,i have no faith in the system so yes i will break laws to deal with them. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:17:34 AM |
i think i may not have clearly stated you actually see them doing the afore mentioned crimes would you then deciede to take action or look the other way.
myself personally i would do everything i can to deal out justice as i see fit,i have no faith in the system so yes i will break laws to deal with them.
Not so much unclear, as totally opposite to what you meant. I.E. not 'would you break the law to uphold the law?' but more ' do you think vigilantism is acceptable?'
or have i missed something? which law would you be upholding exactly? | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:19:27 AM |
As a responsible parent i would rather concentrate my efforts on ensuring that( if god forbid my child was ever intefered with) they were given all the suport and counselling they needed to start the recovery proccess.I would not be able to support my child in that way if i was banged up for a revenge attack,i would in effect just be further letting my child down.
like i said in another's shoes, sometimes people can't say what they would do if they have never been there. Recovery process??.... a child never fully recovers. no matter how much counselling therapy and so on is involved, there are things that can never be fixed. They may recover in some parts, become that energetic playful child again but they have lost part of their life and innocence. do you think you would be thinking rationally? the police have just told you no charges will be made... fair do's if you have that ability.
No matter how much the desire to hurt and wreak revenge, the mark of civilisation is to forgive.
Forgive? could you? I couldn't. Accept it, maybe. Forgive? never.
And if the same person perpetrated the same crime on another i am sure all would have no problem in saying its nothing to do with me... its not my fault...
we live in a blameless society. I'm all right jack. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:26:46 AM | His point is, YOU think it's acceptable to beat up a peadophile.
In some situations yes i do.
If a pedo was in any way in a position to take his chance with one of my two girls i would at the very least warn him off.
It would be entirely on his reaction to what i say to him as to what i would do next.
We have little control over where a pedo is placed in society after being released from prison or found guilty.
If he was living a few doors away from you and you had pre teen daughters what would you do when you see him peering out of his windows while your kids are riding there bikes?
Too PC to simply say its not right to take the law into your own hands.
I bloody well would.
No question about it.
gc | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:34:47 AM | Sorry but I also agree with Restless and Cargy... And yes I DO know the effect abuse has on people ...
You go out and beat up a paedophile then you are no better than they are...
The law is there for a reason, it may not be right all the time but without it we would rapidly descend into chaos... You are either law abiding or law breaking, no in between ground.....
Reasonable force is totally different to going out and battering someone who has hurt either you or a family member... | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:42:35 AM |
would you break a law to uphold a law?
ie you see an assult or worse who you assult the person to protect the victim?
would you tackle a mugger if you saw them comit a crime?would you beat up a pead if you happened to see them try to touch a child?
with the law as it stands you can not phyically touch them but would anyway?
Original question....
would i? yes.
would i be wrong? apparently so.
would i be right standing my my moral beliefs?.... for me, yes.
Would i sleep better knowing i had stopped more pain being inflicted on another? yes. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:58:03 AM | I would use reasonable force if I had to I suppose never needed to yet. The laws are there for a reason I figure might aswell stick to them as much as possible. If saw a someone being mugged and could stop the mugger I would but thats all I would do. I wouldn't kick them round the floor as I'd expect to get in trouble for it.
No point using one crime to stop another.
One more thing about the paediatrician have a read:
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=57;t=000970;p=1
No houses got burnt down. | |
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cargy
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Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 33 | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:19:48 AM |
As long as you get to decide what's appropriate apparently. I'd rather stick with our judicial system despite it's flaws.
You argue the point well Native. It reminds me of when discussions come up about captial punishment and hanging and whether it should be brought back.
If murder is morally wrong ( the basis of the law) then it is always morally wrong. It can't only be wrong in certain circumstances. Legalised murder is never acceptable.
( I am excluding euthanasia here, which is not murder.)
I also agree that mob rule and beating up paedophiles is wrong and the thin end of the wedge. In the past it has lead to innocent people being killed and beaten up. It also leads to known paedophiles going undeground off police radars and becoming much more of a threat than they ever were before.
However...
I am a mother, and if anyone hurt my children I would tear them apart. I acknowledge that this goes against everything I have said above, and agree that it wouldn't be the right thing to do. But maternal instinct is a fierce adversary, and I couldn't in all honesty claim I would never hurt someone in that way.
However, my actions are my responsibility and I would not agree with getting a mob together to hurt someone who has wronged myself or my kids. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 12:42:30 PM | If someone was to harm my daughter then I would let the law do it's thing....
however if the law fails.... then you would never see that person again, I would feed them to the fish | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 12:51:19 PM |
I dont fancy being lumbered with a criminal record when i could have dealt with it by calling the law.
My daughter was sexually assaulted on public transport a while ago ... I called the police .. guess what .. they took so long to get around to dealing with it CCTV had been wiped etc etc so nothing happened, if i had known who it was or found out they would of gotten the sharper side of my tongue that is for sure, but i would never physically knowingly hurt anyone. | |
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cargy
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Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 1:27:25 PM |
My daughter was sexually assaulted on public transport a while ago ... I called the police .. guess what .. they took so long to get around to dealing with it CCTV had been wiped etc etc so nothing happened
And that, my friends, is the real problem! if we can't rely on the proper authorities when the evidence is all there for them, you can't blame people for taking the law into their own hands. That's not to say I condone it, merely that I understand | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 2:52:45 PM |
Notice to All
If your reply has zero to do with the OP, or
Your post is in reply to another off topic post
This is considered thread jacking and causes the thread to go down the toilet - for the ones who initiate and participate - don't do it.
For the ones that are concerned that threads don't last - it is because of the above - report them - Simple as that.
Do not Reply to this , continue with the posted discusion and stay to the topic. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 3:14:55 PM |
would you break the law to uphold the law?
My answer to that would be YES!
Ive got a horrific story to tell, but its very private and saying it on here might get me into a bit of trouble!
Lets just say, theres no justice for some b*stards, no matter what these scumbags do, there going to get away with it, so the only other way to deal with them is to take the law into your own hands, especially when its your family thats the victim! | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:11:50 PM | Depends on the situation.
Quite a few years ago, we had a case in Germany where a mother shot the killer of her 4 year old daughter in the head and killed him. (He had raped the girl to death and then stabed her over 30 times)
She was sentenced to 3 years in prison and was released after 6 month (not 100% sure about that)
I think she did the right thing. (He had been sentenced to 10 years)
Protecting the victim, so the assailant cant get to the victim, yes.
Beating him/her to an inch of their lifes, no. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 12:01:54 AM | I was bought up on an inner London council estate where "Kangaroo Courts" were held amongst the residents. You knew when the local paedo was being released and who carried out certain house thefts etc.
Those allegedly commiting these crimes would consider themselves lucky if the police caught them first.
However a minority of the residents thrived on drama's and hearsay was rife so if your face did'nt fit fabricated stories were invented to make their lives a living hell !!
Imo There is a police force for a reason and they have to work within certain rules/guidelines and to a certain degree operate a fair system however in the wrong hands this power has proved time and time again to have devastating effect on innocent peoples lives.
On the flip side if someone nonced one of my nephews /nieces , or mugged my old mum could i restrain myself from taking the law into my own hands , who knows ?
Would rational thinking prevail ?
...........Blind rage and animal instinct are within us all when pushed to the limit!! | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:20:10 AM | I'm a lover, not a fighter, but there are circumstances where - like some of the others on here - I'd step in to prevent a crime, or take action to lessen the impact of a crime. But I can't imagine any circumstances where I'd take the law into my own hands and actually go out and perpetrate a crime!
Revenge is watching the criminal being locked up...
Vengeance is beating him/her to within an inch of their life...
Who's to say that the parents/family/friends of that criminal won't see MY crime as punishable in the same way? What if they come after me? What if my family then go after them? Where does it all end? It's a self-perpetuating action, violence breeds violence...where do you draw the line?
I dont have cuffs, backup and a truncheon
I can lend you some.....  | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:30:18 AM | Ive lost faith somewhat in our police and courts.... every day you see celebs commiting crimes and being given a slap on a wrist, Peaches Geldof and her helping herself to a dress from a shop, and getting caught on tape buying drugs yet a single mum stealing food for her kids from tescos is locked up.. A burgler breaks into a mans home and threatens his wife and kids with a gun, yet the man defends his home and family by attacking the burglar and he goes to prison and the burglar goes free...
so... if a pedo touched my daughter i'd happily climb in his window during the night and chop his balls off............if someone attacks me... im attacking them with something bigger.... if i get slapped im punching you hard enough to make sure you dont get back up again to hit me... eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Im sick of the pansie nancy "oh he came from a broken home" bleeding heart liberals.
Ill defend me and mine. End of. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:45:03 AM | Speaking as a 'bleeding heart liberal,' I think vigilantiism is wrong. Imperfect as it may be, our judicial system is one of the best in the world and I would prefer it to deal with crime (Law is reason without passion - Aristotle).
If I saw a crime being committed, of course I would do what I could to prevent it, within the law; so, yes to reasonable force, no to doing worse that the perp (not that I'm physically capable anyway).
I introduced myself to my new neighbours when I first moved here by getting two local thugs arrested for arson. The Dad of one of them was looking inclined to kick the shit out of me when he thought I'd grassed the thugs to the Police. For some reason, the fact that I'd actually called the Fire Brigade was OK by him. Go figure!
All that said, if anyone harmed J or any of my nearest and dearest I'd want to rip off his head.
No-one said I had to be consistent. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:57:12 AM | I'm not a violent person by nature but I have wondered what would happen if I was put in a situation where I'd have to be. If anything were to happen to friends or family then I wouldn't even hesitate to step in to protect them! On the other hand we're always told that violence isn't the answer (have you ever tried to talk to someone who's waving a knife in your face?).
I'll agree that the laws these days are useless and the police don't really want to do anything about it. I believe that they only crack down on something when they want to improve their cime stats!
I personally try not to think about situations like the ones in the original post. It's hard to know what you'd do unless your immediate response to things is to become violent yourself. I think reasoning with someone first is always the best course of action.
I wouldn't blame anyone or say they did wrong if they defended someone and hit back, anger blinds judgement but it does breed more anger. The only thing we can all do is do our best to be good citizens ourselves, help others and show those who have lost all faith in the upstanding citizen that there are still a few out there. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 3:33:30 AM | Completely agree with macforty. He has reminded me of the Paulsgrove Peado Hunts, it was alright for the kids of some of those women running it to run amok every night (they were just misunderstood good lads really) but the minute someone in the area was a bit different it was assumed he was a paedophile.
Sometimes I get the feeling people take the Daily Mail too literally and believe it's every word in it's exagerated scare stories, ie woman batters paedo and gets life imprisonment type reports that don't tell the whole story and chose to, let's be kind, misinterpret, the actual events for a good headline.
To answer the original post, yes I would and have. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 5:03:10 AM | have you ever tried to talk to someone who's waving a knife in your face?
yes i have, also bottles, stanley knives, razor blades and anything else they can get their hands on, talking them down is the hardest thing in the world but it can be done by people who know what they are doing...myself included, if not i was happy to dis-arm them............i see your point about anger breeding anger in those situations and i also see Hula Moos point about vigilantes, i just feel safer looking after myself and my own these days than relying on a police force thats woefully understaffed.... would i still feel like this is i needed the police if my daughter went missing of course i'd be the first to call the police then and praise them to the skies when they found her...as Hula Moo said about consistancy... im not consitant either but i have a good idea of whats right and wrong......and if someone tries to harm or take from me or mine.. ill defend it. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 1:44:30 PM | Is that like kicking seven shades of shit out of an intruder coming into ur home to prevent a burglary?
If it came to protecting my kids, then yes, If it was a random fight in the street I'd walk by.
If it was a mugging, I'd stand as a witness but doubt I'd risk my own safty for a stranger | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 3:24:23 PM |
Don't you have "Citizen's arrest" in England anymore? That's where it started during medieval times
Yes, but it can only be used when the crime is punishable by 5 years or more in prison. | |
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