| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/12/2008 5:15:55 PM | You can't have gangs of vigilantes running the country and dealing out the law. It just wouldn't work. As a previous poster mentioned "kangaroo courts", if someone didn't like you they could make you life a living hell.
However, if I was walking along the street and someone tried to: mug an old lady; sexually assault a woman; abuse or sexually abuse a child; physically assault any innocent person with greater numbers (i.e. a gang); then for sure I would step in and help.
My reason for this is simple. If the same ever happened to me or any of my family, I'd like to think that a passer by would stop and help me/them too.
And what exactly is "reasonable force"? I read somewhere as a kid that anything they did to you was "reasonable force" to use back on them. For example, if they punched you or hit you with a stick you could do the same back. Can't for the life of me remember where I read that, but I'm sure it can't be true. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 1:27:19 AM | TallGraham.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I couldnt have said it better myself!
Id intervene for the exact same reason.
Oh, and as for the "Reasonable force" im unsure on that one. but id bet that is, indeed incorrect.
However, UK law really is corrupt and biased against the law abiding citizen.
As a result i have no respect for the police, legal system, or any other part of the justice system.
I am not a Cynical person, but experience has taught me otherwise.
Im sure i mentioned this in a previous thread on a simmilar note,
However, once apon a time, i caught a teenager breaking into my car. i restrained him, didnt hit him at all, i just held him on the floor till the police could arrive, he did struggle a lot and as a result, gave himself some minor cuts and grazes.
When the police arrived, they were more interested in charging me for some variation of assault!!! Nothing happened to the teenager.
The Teens family did indeed try to press charges on me, and things looked pretty bad for me.
Fortunately for me some unscrupulous aquaintances i had were able to track them down and use intimidation and subtle threats of violence to convince them to drop any charges against me.
But i just loathe the fact that i had to resort to such measures to ensure my name wasnt blackened by something that wasnt my fault, when i did nothing wrong, and that i was a victim of our corrupt and absurd law system! | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:00:16 AM | Would i break the law to uphold the law..yes i would....did i when in that situation...no i didnt...sadly.
My daughter was the victim of a piece of sh1t and the only reason i never stabbed him till he died was that my daughter needs her mother at home..not in jail.
The law failed to protect my daughter as the scum always have more rights and assistance than the victim. It is wrong...plain and simple.
its about time we made a stance. I am sick fed up hearing all the 'ooo 2 wrongs dont make a right.....oo noooo thats what the police are for ..ooo goodness that makes you no better'...blah feckin blah.
When the next little girl suffers because i did nothing and because the police were pathetic.....what then?
oo i know we can all sleep better in our beds for knowing that our sensibilities have been protected and no one is off protecting innocence.
There is NO comparison between someone spilling a pint and someone spilling innocence all over the floor. To take retaliation on the former would be pathetic....however to save someone elses child from a pervert........................?
i dont think this is a universal answer but there comes a point when enough is enough.
if the police wont or cant then we need to take a serious look at what we call a justice system....
Lou
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:03:12 AM |
The current powers of citizens' arrest, that apply to "any person", are broadly covered by three parts of the law.
• Arrest for an "indictable offence" under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.
• Arrest of persons committing, or about to commit a Breach of the Peace under common law.
• Use of reasonable force to prevent crime or arrest offenders or persons unlawfully at large under the Criminal Law Act 1967.
Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) and store detectives rely on these powers for aspects of their jobs.
from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6323391.stm
An indictable offence is at the serious end of the scale, murder, manslaughter or rape.
But the upshot would appear to be that anyone can carry out a citizens arrest (they have to say so though, just as the police have to say that they are arresting anyone), in order to prevent an active crime. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:45:04 AM | This is like the old debate on hanging etc. I dont agree with it as I think its hypocritical to "murder" someone for "murdering". I also dont smack my son(probably 3 times in 9 years) as I see it as bullying and how can I smack him when I tell him that its wrong??????
BUT.................. should I catch anyone coming into my home, or a child being hurt by anyone....................well then yes, i should probably find me not only killing them but torturing them before hand 
So i would really say its depends on the situation
Ooo gosh i sound evil there hahahahah | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 4:10:37 AM | People who say its hypocrytical or that what they're doing is just as bad are completley missing the fact that, person A being hanged for killing innocent person B isn't the same thing. Person B was innocent and didn't deserve it, person A isn't innocent and does deserve it.
Just like how pucnhing a bully (especially if he's bullying you) isn't the same as the bully punching an innocent person. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:04:08 AM |
Just like how pucnhing a bully (especially if he's bullying you) isn't the same as the bully punching an innocent person.
That's true. But, if you accept that violence is acceptable in certain circumstances you need to decide exactly what those circumstances are. That's the difficult part. You just end up with a massive grey area which is open to interpretation and before you know it some halfwit is using it as justification to take a baseball bat to someone because they looked at him in a funny way. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:31:10 AM |
Well im sorry Ross but i just dont see that the way to end violence is by using it to punish.
well the softly softly approach we are using at the minute is certainly not working and lets face it..if you know you can do almost as you please and the most you can expect is a slap on the wrist or a 'life' sentance that is barely 20 years..then why worry about your actions?
lou
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Slark
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Joined: 5/6/2008
Msg: 61 | |
| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:49:16 AM | I have no problems is helping people out if they need it, that includes being violent. However each situation has to be quickly assessed as to whether it is the right thing to do, regardless of what the law says!
Just jumping in can be a very big mistake, for an example a group of lads kicking another lad... you jump in to help the individual and later find out he raped someone! | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:59:52 AM | | In answer to the original post, yes i would and have. I have seen a man attacking a woman outside a pub and I stepped in to seperate them. The guy walked away, I helped the woman up and heard the guy running back. Whe I turned he had a knife in his hand and was going for the woman so I lumped him. Was I wrong? Or should I have just let her get beaten and stabbed, then called 999? What if she had died? Would I have been right to let that happen? Or is saving a life more important than staying within the law? | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:47:04 AM | You may use reasonable force under Section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 which states..
a person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in the effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
Remember it must be what is considered "reasonable" in the circumstance.
This is also covered under Common Law in as much as if it is your "honest felt opinion" that you are in immediate danger of attack you may use force to defend yourself or others. Again though, it has to be immediate, so someone ringing you and telling you they are going to beat you up is not immediate danger. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:12:38 PM | | When dealing with the total arses that show up looking for trouble at the hostel, the cctv gets turned off and i can beat the crap out of the wife beaters and abusers at my leisure, the police....they always believe me it's soooooo cool | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:17:19 PM | | Well when one brave man shattered his girlfriends collar bone with a toilet cistern lid, i thought it might be worth a bit of pay back what do you think? | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:50:11 PM | Message 50 DonLancs.
I feel I must correct you on your comment. Citizens arrest can only be used if the crime being committed is one which can be tried in a crown court and not by magistrates. | |
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