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Posted: 5/16/2008 4:34:55 AM | tableguy
that's globalisation and many people don't like it. America also has oil and can hold the "world to ransom". but, america is running out of oil and there are different types of oil - the middle east having the richest grade of oil. As seen from a chess perspective, or a game of Risk perspective, or world domination perspective then yes you're right it was an excellent move. But, as every empire has found out world domination breeds enemies.
and america INVADED to stop iran INVADING, you don't see anything wrong with that? so you don't like iran's influence but america's influence is alright? | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 5:27:04 AM |
Terrorism is a problem
Table; terrorists are the same labels hitler put on dissidents and arrested them.
We have stooped to an all time low with the use of euphemisms in jurisprudence. Rather than soften the blow these euphemisms are hyperbole designed to incite fear and dramatize the language itself lumping any number of "claims" under one "catch all" encompassing definition.
Hey it works good to chase after the perceived bad guys now and us later right?
We assess that the underlying factors fueling the spread of the movement outweigh its
vulnerabilities and are likely to do so for the duration of the timeframe of this Estimate.
• Four underlying factors are fueling the spread of the jihadist movement: (1)
Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western
domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness; (2) the
Iraq —jihad;“ (3) the slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, and
political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and (4) pervasive anti-US
sentiment among most Muslims–all of which jihadists exploit.
Concomitant vulnerabilities in the jihadist movement have emerged that, if fully exposed
and exploited, could begin to slow the spread of the movement. They include
dependence on the continuation of Muslim-related conflicts, the limited appeal of the
jihadists‘ radical ideology, the emergence of respected voices of moderation, and
criticism of the violent tactics employed against mostly Muslim citizens.
Anti-US and anti-globalization sentiment is on the rise and fueling other radical
ideologies. This could prompt some leftist, nationalist, or separatist groups to adopt
terrorist methods to attack US interests.
We judge that groups of all stripes will increasingly use the Internet to
communicate, propagandize, recruit, train, and obtain logistical and financial
support.
Excellent post MG.
The arrogance of the people in this country is appalling. We actually think we can level a pre-emptive hegomonic attacks of imperialism against another sovereign nation and they and the world will judge us as the good guys for pete sake?
I would agree that they judged right and of course in these groups will be included anyone of dissent to us policy, which of course is not the same as the will of the people as has been seen in much of th elegislation passed in the last 20 years.
Then again there is a brighter side to that coin.
If you look at the legislation and precise letter of their new laws, it by its own definition admits this administration and the US government guilty of terrorism!
Which of course I feel is poetic justice. There is nothing more laughable than to see double-think come back to bite these d!ckweeds in the ass. I just hope the people wise up and start prosecuting them for their war crimes.
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Posted: 5/16/2008 6:53:41 AM |
However if the U.S is attacked by a terrorist group(like 9/11) will the focus switch . .In other words, f the war in iraq, the economy, the housing problem etc.Then does McCain seem more likely to win over the democratic candidate.
If the democrats win does the US seem softer and more primed for an attack?
The likely hood of being attacked again by Terrorist, greatly depends on our continued efforts to keep them scattered and on the run! Some people believe that if we pull out of the middle east the Terrorist will be happy and stop attacking? Totally false, they will re-group, they will continue killing! They have been reduced and isolated to a point, thats why their still attacking but only in places they know are weak or less likely to retaliate. These are Cowards that kill for the thrill of it and do it in the name of Allah! Their not fighting for rights, land, oil, poverty, or because the US is in the Middle east, those are bumper sticker slogans designed to mask the ultimate reason......Jihad!!!! The Idiology of Radical Islam..accept it or die!
If Hillary by some slim chance pulls it off....Terrorist will attack US they simply don't respect women as we do nor do they consider them warriors, their viewed as weak subservients to serve man and have babies! Nothing More!
If Obama is elected they will test his resolve, Obama has already sent the message to them he will talk? I'm not sure about what? their minds and idiologies are already in place..Their Terrorist it's what they live for! They will try to mislead him and lie to him until he figures out it's not about the US in the middle east it's Jihad!! He will soon learn that Bill Ayers and Wright are Crazed fanatics that have misguided him for years!
Obama may enjoy a short phase of them seeming innocuous, but they will and are planning a treat for who ever takes office!
If MaCain by some slim chance pulls it off with his I'm as Liberal as you campaign, He too will be tested in order to help them promote their agenda about how bad the US is.
So the libs can continue their it's 4 more years of Bush rhetoric! Which anyone who listens to MaCain realizes he is no Bush, he is as far left as the rest of the Liberals! This is why many Liberals will vote for him because he's just like them, and why the Conservative base looks at him as a sell out! To True Conservative principals! I wouldn't be surprised if MaCain doesn't try to get Liberman as a V.P. a last minute party switch, which Liberman has threaten or contemplated doing before! In hopes to get the swing vote and further show his willingness to try and Liberalize the Republican party! The only benefit if you will of MaCain is a Military back ground that may cause the Terrorist some pause? wondering will his response be like that of Bush! If they come here to bomb on our home soil!
Regardless of who takes office the bombing and killing from Terrorist will never cease!
Bush called it back in Sept 2001 when he said this war on Terror will not stop until they are dead! It's an enemy unlike we've never dealt with! They are determine to kill us and others around the world unless their hunted down brought to justice or killed!
Shoot even Revelations...explains this...If you cut the head off of the Serpant it grows another! They will not rest until they annihilate Israel....and that's just not going to happen! Not as long as the USA is around! It really doesn't matter who believes this or not? it is what it is! So let it be written So let it be done! | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 7:05:42 AM | Shoot even Revelations...explains this...If you cut the head off of the Serpant it grows another!
There's , again, a rather deep irony about you using that argument. It's exactly what your opponents are saying about the inability to stop this Hydra from growing even larger.
Can you provide us all with one relevant example of a counter terrorism plan that did not incorporate non-offensive objectives into it's overall plan, that ever worked ?
Israel agreed to the Oslo accord , and the PLO weakened as a force in international terrorism.
Britain negotiated with the IRA, and that stopped violence on the ground.
You have to go tactical, and also address the root causes of terrorism at the same time.
Otherwise, it's Whack-A-Mole time, and you never stop putting quarters in the machine. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 8:54:08 AM | People who dismiss negotiation as too soft and touchy-feely seem to be ignorant of Gen. Petraus' relatively effective anti-insurgent strategy. Hmmm... I guess that would also include the President based upon recent remarks of his. Too bad people don't listen to Petraus as much as they claim to...
There's , again, a rather deep irony about you using that argument. It's exactly what your opponents are saying about the inability to stop this Hydra from growing even larger.
Imagine two sides, both praying to God for victory in destroying the other. God hears their prayers, throws up his hands, and tosses a coin to decide the outcome. Just like He decided The Crusades! | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 9:18:20 AM |
Britain negotiated with the IRA, and that stopped violence on the ground.
that's not entirely accurate. we used the SAS in northern ireland using similar tatics the IRA were using and with in the space of two years diminshed the IRA's military capability, not destoryed them diminshed. After that the political wing of the IRA sinn fein finally started taking part, in a proper sense, in political talks.
I agree with most of your posts, but this is a bad example the british army forced the IRA into the political arena. the british were willing for along time to sort out problems in ireland by political means unfortunately niether the loyalist or the republicans were willing. The british also put the loyalists into a corner so they had to take part in the political arena which they refused to do for a long time as well. the troubles in ireland aren't over and britains role in northern ireland, up to the offence by the SAS, was one of peacekeeping, keeping the loyalist and the republicans from killing each other.
also the isreal agrreing to the oslo accord, did they? or were they forced to agree by the US?
EDIT:
Can you provide us all with one relevant example of a counter terrorism plan that did not incorporate non-offensive objectives into it's overall plan, that ever worked ?
i've just thought of two - bolivia and oman - against the communists
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Posted: 5/16/2008 9:27:40 AM | If you read my post again, I never said one gives up on the tactical side WHILE negotiating.
Bolivia and Oman are small countries, we are talking about a global problem here.
The USA cannot unilaterally do much, it will take a united worldwide effort. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 10:46:54 AM | montreal guy;
Bolivia and Oman are small countries, we are talking about a global problem here.
I'm sorry you didn't like my comparison, I thought it rather good considering the US had been in a war since 1945 against the spread of communism (the cold war). I think a lot of politicans from that era would disagree with you in saying it wasn't a global problem.
The USA cannot unilaterally do much, it will take a united worldwide effort.
true, but they could try NOT invading another country. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 5:54:14 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and maybe the US could stop overthrowing democratically elected gov'ts in other countries too!!! | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 6:19:03 PM | | There are a number of problems that face us. By us i mean the US One is oil, two is nuclear proliferation three is the advent of the massive growth of the China.Now you may not agree with the tacticts used by the US. You could call them invaders(unlike those gentile Iranians). You can say the invasion breathes terrorism, you can say lets negotiate ,you can say that hitler called dissedent terrorists etc.That may have some merrit. But in this new age of globilisation the US addressed its major apprehensions in one swoop.Yes there is a price to pay(we wont be liked), more terrorism etc.But nevertheless, the US is in the middle east close to oil (high grade) close to iran and close to china. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 6:36:54 PM | Yup and if China makes a play for that oil? Right back to McCarthyism, but for now you can't get enough trade with the "friendly pet commies". China won't even have to fight you directly for some time as they can aid the very people that are trying to oust the invasionary force. Untill long after that farce of a war there were more terrorists in Pakistan (which btw has nuclear capability) and the Phillipines than in Iraq or Iran. It must feel good to breed terrorism.
Bush realised after the fact that he is a terrorist by the definition of his own legislation and has sought to make himself immune from war crimes charges as a result. Now who needs immunity for war crimes that hasn't committed them? | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 7:44:41 PM | | Yes sir, when you are on top of the hill you will never be charged with war crimes.Its when you are dropped from the top then and only then you will be judged.The US is on top of that hill. By going into Iraq they solidified that position. Yes there is a price to pay and terrorism is one of them | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 6:42:40 AM |
Bush realised after the fact that he is a terrorist by the definition of his own legislation and has sought to make himself immune from war crimes charges as a result. Now who needs immunity for war crimes that hasn't committed them?
Bush will never be brought up on war crimes because he committed no war crimes! Hitler/Saddam committed war crimes...Bush hasn't tried to take over any country..He has tried to liberate the people of that country and found resistence from those who want to control it by Dictatorship or Terrorism same thing!! We've taken over nothing we have helped the people put in a leadership that allows them certain freedoms they didn't have! That's where libs and dems just don't get it..They some how think that any act of war or support is wrong! No matter how many innocent people are being slaughtered....if you dems and libs were such humanitarians...why aren't you screaming about berma or Sudan, you attack a President who is trying to help other nations become civil and independent with the ability to freely vote and worship when they want to and who they want to...yet the real war criminals you say nothing about? or try to compare Bush with them? and even at times defend what these thugs do and blame Bush because they are thugs! This is why Conservatives look at dems as flaming idiots!  You guys actually make excuses for Terrorist!!!
And say dumb things like their wouldn't be Terrorist if the US would leave them alone? Say What????? give me a break! Terrorism is a religion..it's called Radical Islam! it dates back to 623AD how in the hell did Bush have anything to do with that or the US???? Islam was rejected by Arabs Jews and Christians...to the surprise of Mohammad!!!! Islam has been at war in the middle east long before the US was the USA! But it's Bushs fault right? aye dios mio! | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 12:36:40 PM | I really think the power of the "terrorists" is both overblown and minimized at the same time.
Overblown because were not talking about millions of people here, it is in the thousands and "we are afraid of witches and we burn women" as someone said. They certainly have no aspiration of "taking over" America. I really can't picture swarms of Arabs on magic carpets landing in New Jersey or Santa Monica and establishing beachheads or some very convincing things they might do to effect a mass conversion to Islam here.
My guess is that the "terrorism" solution is really simple: kick some ass in Israel, put a Palestinian nation on the fastrack, and make sure it all works. Period.
It is minimized because remember this: 18 guys with very low budget and very low technology ...boxcutters ... threw the biggest armed camp in the world into a tailspin on 911, which we are still reeling from. No one should be under ANY illusions that because we are "fighting them over there", they arent "attacking us over here". We are Goliath and need to beware of David. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 3:45:55 PM | Bush will never be brought up on war crimes because he committed no war crime
(post 113)
According to the Geneva Convention the use of depleted uranium is a war crime, which makes Bush a war criminal(along with Clinton) | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 5:52:37 PM |
According to the Geneva Convention the use of depleted uranium is a war crime, which makes Bush a war criminal(along with Clinton)
Come on man....shooting at Us and Allied forces in the no fly zone along with 17 UN resolutions were violated along with a Contract for Murder on a US president, and paying murder bombers 25,000 dollars to blow up Americans was reason enough to take Saddam out! There will be no war crimes brought up against Bush that will stick!
To think otherwise is silly! | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 7:19:45 PM | "........and paying murder bombers 25,000 dollars to blow up Americans ?
""The Iraqi president remained popular among the Palestinians also during the recent intifada, when he promised to transfer USD 25,000 to families of Palestinians killed in terror attacks and clashes with Israel. Sabha Muhammad, 57, of Jenin, received USD 25,000 from Saddam to rebuild her house, which was destroyed during Operation Defense Shield. ""
Ummmm, do you happen to recall images of Israeli tanks bulldozing Palestinian homes, perchance? Or were you thinking that somehow suicide bombers would pick out Americans by their funny hats in Tel Aviv and Haifa?
"".......a contract murder on a US President"?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1019-05.htm but lest you find this source too left wing, try this one:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pentagon_report_finds_no_evidence_of_0324.html
This article doesn't think so, especially from a guy trying to get sanctions lifted, got a smackdown in Kuwait and was trying to curry favor with both Bush 1 and Clinton to be an ally in the region for his own prestige.
"".........shooting at US and Allied forces in the no fly zone"? Oh, really? The no-fly zones were unilaterally US and British, pretty much grounded civilian air travel in Iraq and apparantly, according to this article, we were the ones bombing Iraq pretty often, too!
leaveshttp://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/Iraq/120402_nofly_zones_over_iraq.htm
"...violation of 17 UN resolutions"? Oh, really, well Israel has violated 28, according to the article below.
http://www.geocities.com/savepalestinenow/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil3.htm
If these contradictions to your accusations are true, that leaves ZERO REASONS TO INVADE IRAQ.
I trust you will read these rather than continue to spread lies. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 10:36:06 PM | | I almost agree with steven. Kick some butt in palestine, syria, iran, pakistan afgnanistan .Use Israel as a model, and you would control , not eradicate terrorism. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2008 11:59:16 PM | Wow!!!... pocoloco44
do you even read what's been posted?
I refer you to my msg # 95...
And if you think that is not annoying to some people on the other side..
I can refer you to some material that explains how and why the US overthrew the democratically elected gov't of Iran in 1953...
if that's not enough... there are plenty more examples of the US doing the same thing to other countries. | |
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Posted: 5/18/2008 5:18:15 AM |
Wow!!!... pocoloco44
do you even read what's been posted?
Very few, and here's why anyone can find anything to agree or disagree with the facts!
There are sites designed to blame everyone who doesn't agree with their Radical views, sites that will say Radical Islam is a peaceful loving religion
So do I bother with what the radical left says? No why should I? it's so full of Caca it's ridiculous, I have a need for things to make sense and since the left 90% of the time makes no sense...nor their radical coherts, it would be a waste of time to read allot of nothing, it hope to find something that is actual factual information! Their are links that say Obama is gay and smokes crack? does that make it so? It sure sounds convincing?
I can refer you to some material that explains how and why the US overthrew the democratically elected gov't of Iran in 1953...
And I can refer you to somes site that will say the election was done at gun point! Also Saddams elections were at gun point and sites that will say Palistians are Terrorist and kill for pleasure! Sites that will say Hezbollah and Hamas are peaceful muslims that promote peace in the world? Their are sites that say Hezbollah, Hamas and AlQaeda are behind Obama and helping to fund him, because he is Muslim and once in the white house he will turn on America, he is their hidden secret weapon! Is that true too? because it's on a site? Please let's not be silly... Playing ping pong with sites design to go back and forth depending on what you want to believe is a waste of time!
Look you have your opinion and I have mine... | |
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Posted: 5/18/2008 9:12:33 AM | Poco;
I haven't quite figured you out yet. I thought I had you placed, but then you had such a gracious post on the GCC thread, that I have given you the benefit of the doubt for the past month.
However, your posts rarely make any sense and often seem to be so full of anger. Certainly contradictory from the aforementioned post. I know you either aren't very well educated, or your primary language isn't English, I'm not sure which. If it is the former, that is why you have such a hard time understanding the world.
Liberals aren't swayed by falicious sites on the internet. I am very careful which sites I extrapolate information from. There is a great amount of misinformation out there. I found a neo-con website yesterday, while researching the National Debt, that didn't get the figures correct at all. They tried to make the debt look like a steady rise since WWII. It exploded in 1981. I knew the figures were wrong immediately. So you are correct, there is a lot of misinformation out there. However, there are plenty of sources that are accurate. The better one's education, the easier it becomes to discern one from the other. | |
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