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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/12/2008 1:56:25 PM | | The only ones that can do anything about big oil/OPEC are the consumers...drive less, buy less gas, and see what happens. Also, be glad we Americans aren't paying anywhere as much for gas as those in many European countries are...it's almost $9 a gallon in Germany! Stop expecting the government to do anything...it's not their job...if people keep paying the high gas prices, the prices will keep rising. Carpool if you can, boycott specific stations for a month, and don't be so dependent on gas...then the price will go down. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:18:07 PM |
When oil companies are making obscene profits, then everyone knows something is very wrong.
What's very wrong is that the entire economy is dependent on a non-renewable commodity approximately at it's all time production peak ( shortly to go into terminal decline), and on top of that controlled mostly by foreign nations. It's incredibly short-sighted, to say the least. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/12/2008 2:25:42 PM |
When oil companies are making obscene profits, then everyone knows something is very wrong.
We need to all thank the Oil Companies....
If not for these guys The USA would be in Recession....GDP...
So when you drive by the Gas Station... Cover Your Heart and say Thank You....
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/12/2008 5:35:11 PM |
>>>That's easy for you and me. What about the family who live in a place where their income now won't cover the purchase of their meager allotment of rice?
I find it funny so many people want something for nothing- that because they believe they have the need to something, they have the right to it.
If you cannot afford the oil, then don't buy it- if enough people stop buying it, the price will go down. Thats logical. What you're asking for is we elect criminals to steal from a business whose only crime was offering a service at their own price, to be paid for on a voluntary basis.
If a father and mother allows their children to die of starvation because they find it essential to commute to work everyday, then its clear they value the status quo over human lives. I wouldn't be disgusted by the actions of the oil company at that point- those people could choose to make decisions to make their life work- instead, they insist on altering and creating a false reality to fit their world, rather than adapting to fit reality.
I guess didn't occur to you that I might not of been talking about someone who is fortunate enough to have been born in a country like the US, where driving to work is common? The thread title, perhaps, lead you to think that; but the current economic situation is global.
This money grab by the rich effects everyone, worldwide. For many US citizens, it's inconvenient and cost them some money. For others US citizens, it's a choice between food or heat. But in some places in the world, it will mean starvation because there is no "this" or "that"choice for them. Open your mind and see. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:24:22 AM | Big Oil is not screwing anyone it just cost of extraction of oil has risen as easy pickings are declining. Price of energy will go down slowly over time as other fuel sources are found, and newer oil extraction technology comes online. OPEC countries nationalized the oil, and lack of refinery, or exploration investment gonna kick OPEC sqaure in the face soon. Each time Hugo Chavez exporiates an oil field means the price of crude goes up five dollars a barrel, and an oil companies looses billions of dollars in investment. The countries that lack food should mechanize farming, and stop asking help from the UN. America and EU wants to use crops to make fuel? I say, why not because the OPEC stole most of BP, Shell, Total oilfields they built.
At least the west exports its food to the poorest countries, and other countries like Russia, Argentina, Brazil are using export taxes to discourage exporting thier surplus food to keep inflation in check. If EU and US did export taxes like those countries Africa, and South Asia would really be in trobule. More like middle income, and rich countries are just protecting thier own. If we want to use ethonal or biofuels to increase energy supplies let us. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:12:55 AM | >>>But in some places in the world, it will mean starvation because there is no "this" or "that"choice for them. Open your mind and see.
Oh, I see- but this isn't a thread about choosing food or shelter- its a thread about the cost of oil, with the OP encouraging federal action.
Its unfortunate that some people choose to die or let their family die because of lack of meaningful employment- but this is not the thread to discuss food shortages, nor will any action or inaction against any oil company feed these people. Ironically enough, if you want to help people starving in foreign countries, the key is to BUY FOREIGN PRODUCTS. By importing from countries with terrible poverty and high unemployment, you are giving these people the jobs needed to buy food, and pay for shelter.
If the government were to snatch all the oil in the country from private investors, and force them to sell it at a loss so more people could buy it, how does that save anyone? Those business's would instantly go out of business, and once you're finished chewing the carcass of these business's down to the bone for cheap, stolen oil, no one would be willing to risk the cost of creating a new business under the same premise of selling oil, since any government decree could equally destroy their business, and rob them of all their possessions
Admit it- you do not have a right to oil, food, or shelter- and to force those who succeed and produce to pay for those who cannot or will not produce, and instead simply consume, then you are creating an immoral world heading to the brink of destruction- where those who produce are punished for producing, and are enslaved to those who do not. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 6:45:56 AM | I can see where "Big Oil" would be screwing Americans if we were being charged more than consumers in other countries, but we have very cheap unsubsidized fuel prices, we pay much less than the rest of the world. Most countries that have cheaper fuel prices than the US have government subsidies on fuel (mostly because they are impoverished and they need them).
The US has 5% of the world's population, and only 3% of the proven petroleum reserves (despite the paranoid myths, there really aren't great pools of the black stuff under the continental US) yet uses 26% of the global production of fossil fuels.
The spike in oil prices is global, and the reasons are not secret or hidden: greed and politics, with a fair amount of ignorance and stupidity mixed in.
Solutions?
Use less energy.
Buy more efficient products, or use our existing devices more efficiently.
Use less petroleum-based fuels, less petroleum-based products.
you do not have a right to oil, food, or shelter- and to force those who succeed and produce to pay for those who cannot or will not produce, and instead simply consume, then you are creating an immoral world heading to the brink of destruction- where those who produce are punished for producing, and are enslaved to those who do not.
Unfortunately, this paints a picture of Americans as stupidly wasteful, greedy and ignorant, and some are actually d@mned proud of it. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 1:47:10 PM |
but this isn't a thread about choosing food or shelter- its a thread about the cost of oil, with the OP encouraging federal action.
You are responding to a post that was a response to another post.
you do not have a right to oil, food, or shelter- and to force those who succeed and produce to pay for those who cannot or will not produce, and instead simply consume, then you are creating an immoral world heading to the brink of destruction- where those who produce are punished for producing, and are enslaved to those who do not.
This really isn't worthy of the time it will take me to type a response - it sounds straight out of talk radio. It is incomprehensible to me that there are people who actually believe something like this. Often, those who generate wealth for themselves, produce nothing at all. What do you think a speculator does? A speculator contributes nothing - just makes a money grab and consumes. And yet, apparently, you believe this is a more deserving individual than one who spends a life toiling in the fields and does nothing but produce.
Often, those who make the most dough contribute and produce the least, while those who do most of the work, receive little or close to nothing for their contribution. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:05:22 PM | | All big oil is doing is providing us with the lube to screw ourselves. Either we get smart enough to start exploiting the reasources we have available right here or we need to get used to living in the dark at night and riding bicycles. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:21:06 PM |
United States had to break up monopolies
Have you ever wondered why the UK only has one Monopolies Commission? | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:28:34 PM |
A speculator contributes nothing
Ferrari... Personal jet .. Bentley ... LOTS Jewelry ...
Some are nice people....
Overall they might be deserving souls... the Gods have smiled on them... | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:51:49 PM | >>>A speculator contributes nothing - just makes a money grab and consumes. And yet, apparently, you believe this is a more deserving individual than one who spends a life toiling in the fields and does nothing but produce.
Seriously- what topic are you responding to? You don't think oil companies produce a product? Remember- The issue in this topic is oil companies? Or you'd just like to use vague references to business's we aren't discussing to push your beliefs in a situation that doesn't at all apply to, once again,what we are talking about. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:32:48 PM | Seriously- what topic are you responding to?
You seem to be having some difficulty following the progression of posts. This generally happens when you mine a couple of sentences and attempt to write a response, or forget what you, yourself have posted. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:17:27 PM |
A speculator contributes nothing - just makes a money grab and consumes.
It helps to identify who the "speculators" are. In many cases, it's "hedge fund" managers who are investing in oil futures rather than in dollars or some other commodity. Other kinds of funds managers have also jumped in, as oil futures are a better investment right now than many other kinds of short-term investments- I believe my own 401k has a portion of my money invested in commodities trading (right now I wish oil futures was a greater part of my portfolio).
As to why these opportunities exist, it's the way the market works. If producers couldn't borrow against future yields, the market would be far more sluggish, and oil prices likely would be far higher; like the farmer who can't borrow against the crop he's planted, producers would have to cut expenses until the revenue comes in, laying off people involved in things like exploration and R&D.
Have any of the responses to this thread actually contributed any kind of realistic, workable solutions? All I'm seeing is a lot of carping about prices, and paranoid schemes to circumvent the way the industry works.
Try looking for the opportunities here. You might be surprised. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:03:07 AM | Workable solutions:
Government invests billions in renewable energies and public transport, and heavily subsidises all electric cars/hybrids. Combine that with some sort of conservation program, and you'll massively reduce the oil dependence. Maybe enough to reduce prices, maybe not. Depends how fast Chindia grows. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 5:29:34 AM |
Government invests billions in renewable energies and public transport, and heavily subsidises all electric cars/hybrids.
This is the kind of approach that is more accurately characterized as "leftist liberal."
A previous poster mistakenly described my comments about efficient vehicles and conservation approaches as "leftist liberal," when, in fact, conservation is, by definition, a CONSERVATIVE philosophy.
The "burn it all up now" mindset is neither liberal nor conservative- just stupid and wasteful. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 6:13:34 AM |
This is the kind of approach that is more accurately characterized as "leftist liberal."
Indeed, but I don't see any other way to address the issue. A right wing 'free market' approach to solving all problems gives you a reactive economy which is incredibly short-sighted. You can't rely on individuals to take steps to solve the problem when 99% of them are neither aware of it, nor understand the consequences. And on top of that, most of those that do simply suggest that 'they' (the government? the powers that be?) won't let that happen. No personal responsibility or accountability. Then when things get bad they simply come looking for someone else to blame, be it big oil companies, evil speculators, or greedy arabs hiding 'our' oil under their sand :) | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:17:14 PM | It's true that unregulated online commodities trading has contributed to price increases. This deregulation was pushed through by entities such as Enron, undoubtedly in return for political contributions (so much for "they won't let that happen").
Subsidies for electric vehicles might take the form of tax incentives, but this always leads to a "shell game" of shifting the tax burden somewhere else (higher Federal fuel taxes? raise income tax?) or cutting funding somewhere else (school lunch programs? health care for handicapped?)
Long term, the solutions are using less petroleum and finding alternative sources of energy. I can't see many options that don't include nuclear. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:34:00 PM | I wish we were paying $5 a gallon here in the UK.
We're already at the $1o mark for petrol(gas). Not to mention increases in road tax in the name of global warming crappy exuses. UK Car owners pay a smal fortune for the privilidge to drive on badly maintained roads. We pay way over the odds for third rate public services. + The Economy is already suffering and about to rapidly head down the toilet. 10 years of a Goverenment who have taxed ordinary people to the hilt. Where the rich get richer and the ordinary people get poorer, cause we're the ones who are paying for it all in TAX!!! TAX!! TAX!! Where both partners in a family have to work full time + overtime just to pay the bills and to exist. Huge increases in electric and heating bills, food prices, and the basic cost of living.
The UK is screwed. Vote them out.
OOH wait a moment.Here in the UK it doesn't matter who you vote for.....
The Government always wins, and the people they're supposed to represent always lose and ends up paying for their mistakes/expense accounts.
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:46:21 PM | While I agree with the spirit of your post, there is a BIG flaw... The scale and demands of American culture just are not conducive to decreasing the amount of driving done by very much.
Most people I know, the biggest cause of gas related expenses is getting to work and back, not recreational driving.... Most people commute a distance that wouldn't be suitable to walking or biking, not to mention barely having enough hours in the day as it is.
Historically attainable gas prices have encouraged suburban sprawl- a culture that has to commute to work. Good luck finding jobs for everybody within a suitable distance from home."
The oil companies have to be responsible here and stop putting their wallets first. Because when people can't afford to get to work anymore, they're gonna go broke too. The prices they charge are absolutely rediculous. Their cost of labor hasn't increased so much, the imputs haven't increased so much. The only thing that has increased drastically is their greed.
Answers to cutting fuel consumption:
Walking- none of the places I need to go are within walking distance.
Biking- very few of the places I go are within biking distance.
Mass Transportation: Bus- The nearest bus stop to me is at least 15 minutes away by car... It's only a smidgen further for me to actually drive there and probably cheaper than a bus pass.
Mass Transportation: Train- Doesn't go to even all the major cities... Not useful unless you're lucky.
Car Pooling: Not a single one of my coworkers lives anywhere near me. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:46:46 PM | flossiegirl:
in the name of global warming crappy exuses
not really a crappy excuse, it is a very important issue and the UK has gone from "the dirty man of europe" with absolutely no clean beaches on our 13,000 miles of coastline to one of the cleaniest countries in the world, in just 20 years. I think money well spent and should make you proud of what are country has achieved.
badly maintained roads
amongst the best roads in europe as stated by the EU.
third rate public services
some of the best in the world, yes they are not perfect but tell me the country you would rather live in?
10 years of a Goverenment who have taxed ordinary people to the hilt
don't kid yourself this has been going on a lot longer than just ten years
The Government always wins, and the people they're supposed to represent always lose and ends up paying for their mistakes/expense accounts.
apart from using democracy and the voting system what are YOU prepared to do about it? (except complain).
you're not a happy voter are you? ask yourself one question. which country would you rather be in? especially if you ever become unemployed, ill or old?
highincidence wrote:
Answers to cutting fuel consumption:
Walking- none of the places I need to go are within walking distance.
Biking- very few of the places I go are within biking distance.
Mass Transportation: Bus- The nearest bus stop to me is at least 15 minutes away by car... It's only a smidgen further for me to actually drive there and probably cheaper than a bus pass.
Mass Transportation: Train- Doesn't go to even all the major cities... Not useful unless you're lucky.
Car Pooling: Not a single one of my coworkers lives anywhere near me.
these are just excuses not solutions. You could move, change job it is an option but I would assume an option you are not willing to take. That's not a go at you, it is a lot to ask of somebody, but don't suggest there aren't solutions there are. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:56:19 PM | We are being led bythe nose down the wrong path. Using corn to make fuel is the dumbest thingI ever heard of, And i do have some degree of knowledge, I was in the Jordan Energy Institute during the last crisis, until OPEC lowered the price. within 6 months all conservation measures were repealed, and all programs cancelled including funding for my college, hence, no degree on my wall.
The production of corn is highly ineffecient to begin with, from the amonia, to the fertilizers, fuel to plant, till harvest, dry, etc, its all costly. the Net Gain is 1.25 gallons of corn fuel for every gallon of gas spent to produce it. then you have to calculate the efficiency of the new fuel is less then gas, so the grim reality is we are paying the oil companies, driving food prices out of sight, and in the end result we gain basically nothing. Has your government told you this? doubtful
How many people will go hungry after the price of corn quadruples {Again} this year.
Methane Gas is the way to go. You can use anything organic to make it, and OPEC cannot control it. That is why it will never be used, big Oil cannot regulate supply or price.
We can put a man on the moon, but if we dont feed him and send water and air regularly he will die. Hence we know man cannot live on the moon. However 10 acres of land in africa can support 1 man. Not 2. Now there is 5, they are beyond capacity, nature is starting to adjust the population. So we rush in and feed them. they breed more, now there is 12 , more food fast! Call me a heartless demon, but the fact is even in rabbits feeding them is bad for the species, they overproduce, and disease and starvation hurts them worse then natural selection. We cannot continue handing out food like we do, populations on the worst soil on the planet is rising, due to our ignorance. Its sad when a baby bird falls from the nest, but the reality is others will live.
If you think these are bad times, you havent seen ANYTHING YET. Give the american food supply chain a big jerk, just once and you will see riots and mans inhumane actions at their finest. And its coming. Any day now. | |
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| Big Oil, OPEC Screwing Americans
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:56:32 PM | Humans arn't stupid, although you wouldn't know it by their actions.
We had ample opportunity to get off that damn oil!
And we could have saved the environment in the process!
We have nobody to blame but ourselves! | |
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