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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:44:27 PM | nah, package deal,
I was on to her right from the start....I have no patience for a mother/wife who acts like she does. She gives women a bad name. That's my bit*ch in this. That's all.
I especially get upset with what these women do to a family.
You?? wallow...wallow...wallow...victim...victim.... you are getting tiresome...
 Her sending pictures already to guys thousands of miles away from her...
Pathetic, needy, silly, ol' broad with 4 kids....
And...that guy who believes the pictures are of her!!!!
This could get quite amusing now.... | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:51:12 PM | | the only thing amusing is your i. q. you say i attack woman? well seems to me you are the one who attacked the op first then everybody who didn't agree with your narrow minded opinion. and so what about the picture. even if its not her at least she got the guts to have one? don't see yours to handy. not that i would care. but you know what the only thing that gets lowered here is the inteligence of your responses. but you all can say what you want and take your little shots. i know you don't anything else going on in your life so you got to make yourself important some how right? so taking apart other people makes you happy and feel like the big person , go ahead. and please.. if this is what i have to look forward to when i turn 40+ god its going to be a dismal life. turning like you. sour and bitter. ouch not nice. | |
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| Ohhh, Wallflower, Break clean for round 'infinium', please...
Posted: 5/14/2008 2:44:55 AM | Supertacu’s original premise seems to have been forgotten. She has asked these Fora for advice on dealing with a failed marriage. –How does she ‘maximize her life’s satisfaction ‘if she stays inside a failed marriage? 'Can we all return to ‘coloring within these lines’, PLEASE?
If she chooses to e-mail her pictures to others, that is her private right. I doubt that the god Svaritot is going to devastate our ‘ online tribe’ in return, so may we stop the spear waving, O>K>? …
I would remind those who are commenting on Supertacu’s Christianity that our relation to Christ is the deeply personal bond that forms us into optimistic, ethical people. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 3:08:36 AM | supertacu: No amount of money or security is worth staying in a marriage that is doomed.
I was married for 25 years to a man who abused me mentally as well as physically, cheated on me more times than he had hair on his head and like you hung in there for most of the reasons you have stated.
It's better to be alone and be mentally healthy than to be with him and be mentally sick. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 3:34:16 AM | people do this all the time. they get married without watching to see if their partner will "air their dirty laundry", a pile of kids is made because it "seemed like the right thing to do", the reason being "because we've been together so long". kids enter into it and drain on everyone, the walls of Jericho come crashing down and "you're suddenly not married to the same person anymore".
...notice the extensive use of quotations. these are very clichéd times.
you were married to the same person all along. you just didn't want to see this side of them. you didn't want to believe they could be this way. and there's another problem here. you "don't like the person you are now".
dropping 4 kids with someone that kept up an illusory relationship, is your doing. nobody forced you to have a pile of kids with this joker. he used to seduce you. used to.
 isolate him and question him about this. if you don't talk to him, this will only fester. and eventually you'll blow up at each other, out of nowhere, and everything will fall apart. you don't go onto a dating site and talk to strangers about it. you sit down, alone with your husband and talk about it *with him*.
if you run from this, it will only stay with you longer. grow a set of grapes and discuss this with your husband. you have no business here, discussing it with us while he's oblivious.
the purpose of a husband is to satisfy his wife. in every sense possible.
that's the only way you'll feel justified in satisfying him.
get a babysitter, take him out to dinner, then go to a bar with a patio and talk about this with him over iced liquor. you'll never get shut of it otherwise. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:07:22 AM | Hi supertacu,
I'm so sorry your present situation is not working out,but the one thing you don't want to do is to be thinking in twenty years from now that two thirds of you life has been wasted.Is your husband the kind of person you can sit down and talk to?,Probably not,but you have to communicate to him exactly how you feel. If you can't communicate with him then tell him that you are very unhappy,and need to change your life. Being stable financially will never make up for being permenantly unhappy,so you must move on in some way,you could have forty or fifty good years of life left.
If you do decide that you can't save your relationship with your husband ,then YOU have to make moves to change it. I would always make sure that this relationship is really finished before starting a new one. In fact,if you do seperate from your husband,give yourself at least a year to find out a bit about who you are.
My youngest daughter was very upset when my wife and I seperated,and continually tried to get us together again,and that could happen to you in this case,but stand firm. My youngest daughter now says that although she hated it at the time she now knows it was the best thing I did ,and we are both happy now,although ,I've been through another marriage since then.
Whatever your beliefs,I can't dream that your god would want you to go through the rest of your life being unhappy,and you could have a real chance to be happy again with someone else eventually,as could your husband too. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 5:59:45 AM | I read 3 pages before I gave up  and decided to post my opinion.
Op, you asked, people responded and gave "their" opinions....the way they feel and think, based on the information you provided.
Surely you didn't expect to get all, "go for it, girl", responses.
Some have offered their experiences and the outcome of their decisions.
They took the time to think about you and to post......you were in their thoughts, so to me, none of those who posted were being mean.
I think most people, at some time or another, have the fear of the unknown.
I did notice some of the responses that defended your actions where also the ones who have, "prefer not to say", just as you have on your profile.
Yours sure has a butt-load of them.
I would never say to start a new life before you've finished with your old one.
Cut bait or run.
Fight or flight.
At this time I would not put up a profile........ye gads, that's waving a red flag and signaling for even more problems within your marriage.
And just put "for the forums only" and leave it as that.
If you wish to catch "fresh trout, do not fish with carp bait".
By staying in your broken marriage, you are teaching your children how to deal with problems....and how to treat their spouses.
The boys are doing with pot, the way their dad has done with drinking...escaping, even for a short while, from painful things.
I'm not making excuses for any of them.....
Since they've grown up (the two older ones) and are growing up (the younger ones), you and your husband have been/are their role models.
Would you want any of them to have the life you've had and and feel trapped?
I saw my best friend treated with disrespect from her husband.
He would always tell the children how stupid their mother was.
How she could not do anything right.
And he would always add; "did you take your medicine"?
She took no medicine......he said it was a joke. Well, ha ha.
He did this for over 12 years. So when he decided he was done, after 20 years and her oldest was almost 12 and the other one was 8, they really believed that she was exactly what their daddy said she was.
Growing up, they had no respect for her.
He gained custody mainly due to what the children said.
She made 22,000. per year as a secretary, left with nothing but her clothes and had to pay child support.
He was retired military and worked as a government contractor.
Almost tripled her salary.
When I went to help her get her personal things, we found "how to books" on men getting custody and his list of what to do.......she had no idea.
From one of the receipts was the beginning to her end.......3 years before he took action.
He was using it as a book marker. 
Being alone maybe difficult and a daily struggle, but the pride and self-esteem I've gained, is more valuable than the huge "wallet" I was married too.
Now I feel as though I've been released from a third world country prison, after 29 years of hard time.
And no fat wallet is needed for peace of mind and a blissful life.
Heck, I have no health insurance......... if had to choose between him and insurance, or being happy, I'd stay right where I am without a second thought.
If you've done everything possible to try and save your marriage, then that's all you can do. It takes to two make that happen.
You didn't end up in that ditch by yourself.
Then write down what you want....research your options.....and make a plan.
Where do you see yourself 10 years from now, if you stay?
Where would you like to be in 10 years?
Then baby steps toward where you want to be.
Good luck.
ceeceekitty
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| Yikes! ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH, dear friends & darling Gwendolyn....
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:01:08 AM |
i'm getting bashed by over aged opionatedwomen because this lady chose to send me one picture i NEVER ASKED FOR!
How can a woman be "over aged"? If we were hitting on you instead of criticizing you, you might be able to term us that. Over opinionated? Women are not required to sit down and shut up any longer. Live with it.
You stray from the intent of what we said--why do we care if you asked for her picture? And I agree with the poster who pointed out that you said the "years have not been kind to her"--what a backhanded compliment!
she volunteered a picture. and no not because she thought she was going to get something for it.
Of course she got something for it, fatuous young male--she received your approbation that she is the "bomb" and your support in this forum.
are we feeling a bit envious that this lady is getting some attention?
I tried to put the little guy rolling on the floor here, but he kept rolling to another spot.
ladyc4...jnh456...Gwendolyn2008 ladies ladies if you have an issue. . . change of life getting you? them damn hot flashes.
Sorry, Ther_mal, but I have been post-menopausal for years and never had a hot flash.
Our Darling Gwen Wrote
Why, Soorare, sweetheart, I didn't know you thought that way about me.
First, can we show supertacu some Christian Charity?
I am not Christian. The OP's claimed adherence to Christianity while contemplating adultery, however, makes a travesty of her faith. I have no morals, but I do have ethics, and ethics include not cheating (even at cards). If she wants a lover, let her discuss it with her husband; if he approves, then she should go for it. If he is against it, then, again, she needs to move on. Promises such as marriage vows cannot always be kept, but when they are broken, they need to be broken openly (divorce), not by sneaking around in private.
Who among us has not been scared by the choices of life? I really do not see what is to be gained by sacrificing her life to a marriage from hell.
I have to ask if you actually read what I have written. I have said a couple of times that I was in a situation similar to hers, and I was terrified by my choices in life. I left my husband, and I have said (at the point of redundancy) that if she doesn't like where she is, she should leave.
This woman needs to ask herself what IS/ARE the MOST IMPORTANT thing(s) in her life? Once that is answered, she needs to go from there. If they are her children, what will benefit them the most? If it is her marriage, she needs to shut up and suffer silently. If it is her need for a lover and/or to leave the marriage, she needs to walk away. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:16:05 AM |
Women know women, and all their bullshit, too bad guys don't. Guys come on here wanting to understand women, and then when women tell you how other women are, we are b itches, catty, and whatever else we are called.
Truer words could have been spoken somewhere on POF, but not lately. There is a forum pointing out a study that men don't know women, but generally, women DO know women. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:31:04 AM | I always thought that lumping any gender into one neat pile was frowned upon in the fora. I look at it more as: Like knows like, whether it be male or female, ~ We, as women, do not ALL process life's lessons in the same manner and therefore, DO NOT possess the same psycological make-up. Some learn from past hardships and forgive themselves and those that we percieved to have harmed us... Some obviously carry those scars,have not healed and project them onto others who trigger memories in their wounded, unhealed ID.
Not very many in this thread condone or recommend that the Op look for another man to make her happy while still married (it won't help her). But many of us are able to give advice without projecting. .. I suspect they are the one's who have healed, forgivin and are (mostly) baggage free. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:14:31 AM |
Like knows like, whether it be male or female, ~ We, as women, do not ALL process life's lessons in the same manner and therefore, DO NOT possess the same psycological [sic] make-up.
I agree, but nevertheless, I still think that there are commonalities--perhaps more cultural than innate--that the separate genders share. And beyond that, there are commonalities that humans, in general, share. If there weren't, then we wouldn't be able to read people the way that we do.
The clues in the OP's posting are what most of us are basing our opinions (and they are opinions).
Some obviously carry those scars,have not healed and project them onto others who trigger memories in their wounded, unhealed ID
Perhaps, or perhaps, some of us, having been in the same situation, just know the score. But the OP asked for advice from people who are or who have been in similar situations. I was. I can only give her "advice" based on my experience. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:05:58 AM | Where do I begin....or even is it worth writing....Sending my pic to ppl I talk to is not a big deal, I, myself, prefer to see who I'm talking to, it just helps....
Dear pacagedealx3!I find your posts to be the most helpful, You are a real woman.
Thank you, Phoenix555, ther_mal, 14me24you, Wishes Granted and others!
Wall-f, I'm not your mother, whatever you wanted to say to her, say to her. I would have comforted you, if I weren't too busy dealing with my own sh*t. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:28:06 AM | Having gone back and re-read the first post, I will concede that the OP does not ever come out and SAY she's considering cheating, in her first post. We may have drawn that inference from the fact of her havng an active profile here. We MAY have been "putting 2 and 2 together" and coming up with 3 5/8.
She could be asking what her chances are of finding "mr. Right" if she divorces Mr " "turned out to be not right". She doesn't want to be where she is but she's afraid that leaving will put her in a worse situation. And it could. She could wind up divorced, losing half of what she's worked hard for, and end up with no man at all. If she's asking if it's somehow OK to sneak around and line up her next man before she leaves the one she has now, my answer would be no, because it's setting a bad example for her children.
If she's flat out asking whether she's likely to find a worthwhile man should she end her present marriage, my honest opinion would be no. In the 40+ age bracket, the really worthwhile guys are being, for the most part, held onto by smart wives. This doesn't mean there are NOT worthwhile men out there, but I'd say the numbers are against her. "Looking the bomb" might enable her to "get her foot in the door" more often than a plainer looking woman, but does little to guarantee that she will find "Mr Right".
If she is asking what it's like out here in unmarried middleaged woman country, I 'd have to say it's absolutely awesome if you are secure in yourself and do not REQUIRE having a husband or committed man in order to feel valid. If she is divorcing because she cannot bear to stay with present hubby, that's fine. But I could not in good conscience tell her that there is a bumper crop of "Mr Rights" just the other side of the fence.
Cindy O | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:58:30 AM |
I will concede that the OP does not ever come out and SAY she's considering cheating, in her first post. We may have drawn that inference from the fact of her havng an active profile here. We MAY have been "putting 2 and 2 together" and coming up with 3 5/8.
I based my opinion on this:
but at the age of 39 i feel cheated out of half of my life and afraid that i won't meet mr. Right.
Looking for Mr. Right is looking for another man--or the desire to look for another man. When she finds him while she is still married, what will she do? Will she remain chaste until a divorce is final?
She is also of the opinion:
(As far as cheating goes, I don't really see how you can cheat on someone you don't have sex with....for the last 10 years...)
Her marital status is "Prefer not to say," which says volumes.
Did she ever explicitly say she was NOT looking for a man? | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:48:53 AM |
Did she ever explicitly say she was NOT looking for a man?
No, I will concede that she did not say THAT,either.
And I was going strictly on what her first post says,which could have ALSO been interpreted as asking for "insider" information about what it's like to be middleaged,divorced and looking for a new SO.
For myself, my mind just BOGGLED when she claimed that her and hubby had been sleeping in separate bedrooms for 10 years. WTF??? Aside from tragic situations where the spouse was unable to have sex due to injury or illness,why would someone stay that long in a dead marriage? Remember, the OP came back in later posts to explain that she DOES work and has a decent income, so she can't claim that she's a financial prisoner!
But, we'd be fools to ignore the fact that even with both spouses employed, in a marriage of much length, divorce is going to have repercussions with dividing assets, kids being thrown into an uproar, loss of friends/social standing...
Even a dead even 50/50 split of assets&liabilties, it's sort of like taking a yo-yo and breaking it in two. It's a lot of fun to play with a yo-yo, but what good is a yo?
I'm not saying that this is any JUSTIFICATION for staying in a loveless marriage and seeking sexual gratification with someone else, but I'm fairly sure this is a significant factor in many extramarital sex situations.
My own PERSONAL interpretation of this thread is that the OP is indeed in a situation where she doesn't want to take the social and financial risks of divorce, but wants to have a relationship on the side to get emotional and sexual needs met. I also think she's already pretty much made up her mind to do just that, but decided to see if she could find a basis to rationalize her decision and make it somehow "OK". Thus her posting of the thread. Of course the support for her premise has been pretty underwhelming...
Cindy O | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:23:08 PM | Wasn't planning on posting to this thread again but given Cindy's reposts I would also like to explain how I read the OP. I don't understand cheating and as the OP explained, I think the whole Christian thing was thrown in there to explain why she has not cheated even given a sexually celibate marriage for the last 10 years. So, because of the way I think, and because I have a tendency to believe people until they tell me otherwise, I saw this thread as a woman thinking aloud the way people often do with their friends, not as someone trolling for an extra-marital affair.
In the earlier less than blissful years of my marriage when I still had the delusion that the ***hole would get so tired one day he would be less of a pain to live with, people would ask me how I could stand the roller coaster. My answer was that the grief I know is better than the other different grief out there. So, at some point I see anyone, particularly someone considering getting rid of a 20-year-marriage, as thinking about whether there is life after divorce. People expect to be alone for X amount of time but it is not bizarro to consider whether life would suck if you didn't find anyone.
To me, that was the heart of the questions about other men. Now, I could be totally wrong and I hope I'm not because I suspect the OP would find that an affair is not going to be remotely close to what she thinks it might from the standpoint of making her happy. It might be a short-term fix but deep down it conflicts with belief patterns that she has held for decades. The guilt, the potential other problems, are not worth it and bottom line create even more havoc than they are designed to salve.
And finally I suspect that many of the people that responded so vehemently do feel for the children and even for the OP in terms of another human being's pain but perhaps you have forgotten that when one is attacked, he usually erects a wall and then there is no chance of getting through. The same thing could have been accomplished by saying, I realize that you are hurt and grasping at any lifeline right now but an affair will set a horrible example for your children driving a bigger wedge between you and your boys and potentially nullifying every moral idea you have tried to instill in your daughter.
It sounds like the OP is very, very tired and she may perceive the idea of having a caring relationship with someone as something that will bring her back to life. Unfortunately, while it may provided a little umph for a while, it will begin to suck the life out of her like everything else in her life right now. Everybody brings their nature and their environment to all of their future experiences. That I am not contemplating the same choices is nothing more than an accident of birth. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:23:31 PM |
but at the age of 39 i feel cheated out of half of my life and afraid that i won't meet mr. Right.
Looking for Mr. Right is looking for another man--or the desire to look for another man. When she finds him while she is still married, what will she do? Will she remain chaste until a divorce is final? Try to put yourself in the Op's shoes and how she is thinking about herself at the moment.. A different way to interperate her statement: She is someone who, due to circumstances whittling away at her self-worth, says she's "afraid that I won't meet mr. right" and in saying that, actually feels no one will ever want her. Once she has the opportunity to build up her self-worth. She'll understand that a man can't make you happy... Mr. Right will only enhance what she already has.
(As far as cheating goes, I don't really see how you can cheat on someone you don't have sex with....for the last 10 years...) Now, I don't agree with this anology.. however I do symapthize with her feelings of abandonment and understand the longing for physical pleasure. (and) This is why I suggest that Op.. muster up the courage to get out while she is still young enough to make a happy/healthy/stable life for her and her impressionable-aged daughter. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:33:59 PM |
People expect to be alone for X amount of time but it is not bizarro to consider whether life would suck if you didn't find anyone.
No, it isn't. But how can anyone else's truth in this matter be accurate information for the OP?
It sounds like the OP is very, very tired and she may perceive the idea of having a caring relationship with someone as something that will bring her back to life.
My thinking would be that if she gets involved with a man who knows or suspects she's married, that's a guy with issues of his own. And if she lies? I won't say it CAN'T happen, but how can you be in a "caring relationship" with someone if you are lying through your teeth?
As far as wondering whether life would suck if she didn't find anyone, it sounds like her life sucks NOW. And as long as she is married to her present husband, she is not FREE to form a healthy relationship with another man.
As it stands right now, were she to divorce, she would at least have the right to date and HOPE to find Mr Right. I won't pretend that caring extramarital relationships CAN'T, or DON'T exist, but I'm not about to start advocating for them. And if she's looking to start and build an extramarital relationship as an exit strategy from her current marriage, I can't support that because of the message it sends her kids, ESPECIALLY the daughter.
Cindy O | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:45:49 PM | As have I, Gwen. Then you realize what state her self-worth is currently in... 20/20 hindsight is not for the blind. Having already left , we know that there is no need to stay in a situation that is not healthy, ( how long did you agonize about it before you finally hit bottom and knew that getting out, no matter how scarey, was better than staying?) This is when experienced, empathetic advise can help. However, when you're still living it and know nothing else.. it's harder to see the light.
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:20:20 PM |
As have I, Gwen.
Wishes, I agree with you, and that is why throughout this thread, I have consistently said that she should leave him. I also know that advice is useless until a person reaches a level of understanding; when some people ask questions, they already know the answer and are seeking validation. Her questions point not to her leaving, but staying, and the validation she seeks is for being a dating site seeking Mr. Right. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:37:52 PM | I wasnt going to post again on this topic, as I was there for more years than I can count. Being from a different generation I took another course...a third choice other than leaving or trying to make it work. In my case there was no making it work. Trust me I tried. Again for more years than I can count. We just basically lived our own lives. He cheated I didnt....................
So to the OP..I would say..........Get the hell out. I dont advise anyone to live like that.
When I decided to just live my life it revolved around friends, other family members, and co-workers. I must admit my self esteem was never in question. There were other issues at work in the relationship, that I choose not to get into.
I agree with others you are looking for validation. But not to leave. I for one cannot tell you its ok to go out of the marriage to seek comfort. If you are going to stay(and I don t feel you should) find other avenues to fill the empty spaces other than cheating ,as you say you are a Christian. Although you dont have to be religious to have values and morals.
We all choose our own path and unfortunately we must travel that alone in many respects. Although others have been where you are their path is also their own.Only you can know the consequences of whatever actions you take. | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:48:07 PM |
We just basically lived our own lives. He cheated I didnt....................
That is what my ex had suggested too...I thought hell no, I had lived the life of being bread winner, to him being the bread winner. Even if he didn't physically cheat on me, he had emotionally.
It broke my heart because that wasn't what I thought would happen... When I got married, and waited to have sex, I thought sex was part of the package deal.... YEAH not with him...
OP it is easy to want to reach out and see what is out there, while trying to safely keep in the hell we are in... The truth is, you will not get a real taste of what is out there while you are still in a marriage. A good wonderful man is not going to want to mess with a married woman, the price to his own ethics and morals is to high...
So in essences what you will find is men who are very happy to play fill in, but do you really want someone that either just wants to have sex, OR someone that pities you?
WHen you have strength then that pity can change, and you can be left with a worse mess.
Being in the dating world is NOT easy, but neither is marriage of any kind.
Love your children and yourself enough to be that strong woman you know you are...It is worth it, and no matter what it will feel so much better than sneaking around...
Even if your spoouse gives the go ahead, again is that what you want your kids to think marriage is? | |
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| Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:05:14 PM |
Wall-f, I'm not your mother, whatever you wanted to say to her, say to her. I would have comforted you
On here expecting alllll this sympathy for yourself, but not showing any for someone else. Personally I just think you are a piece of crap. And whoever wants to jump on that, go ahead, because I don't care. All I can say, anyone that feels sympathy for this type of person, is in for a rude awakening one day. Have seen so many types of these women, and I really hate it, because it makes women look so low and awful, and if you can't see that, take the blinders off................  | |
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