| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:25:30 AM | Yes I think he is worthy of respect for getting off his ass and making money for himself too.
After all would any of you lot do it for free? Wouldn't you require the funds of a salary to live?
If he was realy greedy wanted to make more money for himself then perhaps he could have started the business abroad.
What's wrong with earning your own income? Do you think the same of Sir Sugar?
Don't know who Gee is nor how you can be borned. And no I don't drink either.
So what's your point again? | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:39:01 AM | Msg 24........
I think the OP has mislead people who have contributed to this thread.
for a start the daily mail article says nothing about benefits.
I suggest you actually read the article before you accuse people of distorting facts.
And I don't see what the fact that the mother says that they won't have sex has to do with her attitude towards British values. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:57:38 AM |
And I don't see what the fact that the mother says that they won't have sex has to do with her attitude towards British values .
What British values ......of having sex and a baby at 14 - instead of getting married at 14 and not having sex ?
I agree with the issue of tax evasion by the very rich .
Here's one for you .BONO .
Constantly harrassing you to give to Africa because its his pet project to walk in Geldof's shoes..............but he takes his fortune out of Ireland and into a tax haven.........lol.Nothing wrong with giving to Africa mind you.We give them aid already but Bono has decided its not enough.
Geldof is another...............but McCartney.............
I noticed all aggression directed at old Heather Mac but he deserves all he gets. He has a fortune in excess of £500 and its added to by some £35 million each year .My mother was saying that a hospital was closing in their area for lack of £1 million and he and his then wife were marching around and collecting moneys of single mums and pensioners to "save it".......Of course he aspired to sainthood and the publicity did no harm.........but mom was saying................£1 million to him is £10 to a pensioner .
......they should pay tax........they won't let go unless you prise it from them and they use every trick or loophole in the book.The likes of you or me have no choice.............its taken from source...........
They get away with all kinds of tricks and evasions . | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:55:57 AM |
And believe me if you were working hard and earning that sort of money only to be faced with paying 40%, plus NI contributions as well, of it back to the government just so some workshy doley scumbag could get paid for nothing. You would try and avoid it all too.
A great many of these people don't actually "work" for the money in the true sense of the word. They either gamble other people's money (stock brokers) or tell other people to work hard (board members/chief execs).
Think about it this way......
Many "full time politicians with constituencies to look after and, in some cases, ministerial positions to look after an aspect of the country, also find the time to earn huge piles of cash from sitting on the boards of companies, often earning many times my annual wage each month for a few hours "work". They also claim expenses to pay for second homes while I, taking home just over £800 a month, can't afford a flat and can't be offered council housing.
Isn't it funny how the rich, the law makers and policy makers don't have to abide by the same rules as us.....? | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:28:24 AM | Isn't it funny how the rich, the law makers and policy makers don't have to abide by the same rules as us.....?
We are going WAY off topic here but "the rich, the law makers and policy makers" DO have to abide by the same rules as us, whoever 'us' may be.
I trust that you aren't suggesting that there really is 'one law for the rich and one for the poor' because that is ridiculous. We all have to abide by the same laws.
The fact of the matter is that the wealthy can afford the top class accountants and lawyers that it takes to advise on offshore accounts, tax havens etc. These are legal loopholes, there for the taking by all of us......... IF we can afford it.
There is nothing at all wrong with tax avoidance.
Tax evasion is another matter.
And being jealous of the wealthy is just another' wonderful' British trait, but I very much wish it wasn't! | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:32:58 AM | | I'm not jealous of the rich, I just don't think a lot of them endear themselves to the general population who struggle to make a living while some just assume they are entitled to flout the law because they can afford to | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:56:04 AM | 'Flout' - a good word. I means 'to mock or scoff, to show disdain'. I don't think that using the law of the land to save yourself money amounts to that.
Come on, be serious. Wouldn't we all be doing just the same thing if we had the money? Would you really be happy paying 40% of, let's say, £1 million income? If you could find a legal way to avoid paying that much tax would you take it? You bet you would!
I know that there are loads of people on here who would say that the wealthy should share their money with the poor........... but why should they? They worked for it.
Someone on here suggests that Paul McCartney could pay £1 million to save a hospital. Why should he? Paul was born into a working class family. His mum was a nurse and his dad was a salesman. Paul made his way in life by sheer talent, are we suggesting that talent should be taxed? Just because he is wealthy should he have to support those of us who are not?
Talk to me about taxing lottery winners not those who, by sheer dint of hard work or talent (or a mixture of both), have accumulated wealth beyond our wildest dreams. Good luck to them I say and, if they have found a legal way to avoid paying through the nose for tax on those earnings good luck to them again!
Loads of lottery winners, whose only 'skill' or 'talent' is to pick the right numbers on a Saturday, walk away with £3 or £4 million. 40% of that would make a difference to a struggling hospital. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 12:04:07 PM |
Someone on here suggests that Paul McCartney could pay £1 million to save a hospital. Why should he? Paul was born into a working class family. His mum was a nurse and his dad was a salesman. Paul made his way in life by sheer talent, are we suggesting that talent should be taxed? Just because he is wealthy should he have to support those of us who are not?
McCartney's money and fame comes from us...Joe public.We bought his records so talent or not.....we are the ones making him rich.However he should pay tax but my point which it seems you missed completely is.....................rather than showing himself up to wanting to be a saint......................he could have coughed up easily himself .Whats £10 to the pensioner is £1 million to him.
He was asking them to give..............they didn't ask him and they are taxpayers and worked hard .His working class street cred would surely give him some compassion.....no?
So who or what is he keeping this mountain for because he said his kids ought to make their own way......................... | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/13/2008 12:36:34 PM |
MissSelf, did you honestly believe that when TallGraham 'started a company which employs about 200 people in an area of very high unemployment, bringing much needed money into the town', he was just getting ' off his ass and do something worthwhile, plus improve the lives for others'?
Did you not think he was just making money for himself (which is perfectly ok and laudible) and the so-called 'improving others' lives' was just a by-product which he just wished to put emphasis on?
Yes I did make money for myself. I also made a lot of money to pay all my employees salaries as well. On top of that I made a lot of money for all the local tradesmen that I used to refit the building we use as our office.
I went to great lengths to use only local tradesmen and suppliers to ensure I was doing all I could to help my local area.
I was not born into money at all. Everything I have is what I have earned. Yes I may be a director and ask people to do things, but remember before the company got big I used to do all those things myself. (including unblock the toilets) So in my opinion I have earned that right.
Funny how so many of you mention hospitals too. Before I was ill I would go to my local hospital on Christmas Eve and give the local special care baby unit a donation to buy some equipment.
I think I should also raise the point that most health trusts, that run the hospitals, are appallingly mis-managed and so much money is wasted. If these things were run better the hospitals wouldn't be in the state that they are. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:49:18 AM | TallGraham, here we go again...
<div class='quote'>I also made a lot of money to pay all my employees salaries as well. On top of that I made a lot of money for all the local tradesmen that I used to refit the building we use as our office. Yeah, that is why you make money.... to pay wages & tradesmen. That is the reason why you wish to make money. You actually think we believe that is why you wish to make money... to pay wages?
I do not have any objection to your financial success at all. The thing I do object to is your emphasis that your business brought riches to a poor area. It was merely a by-product of your search for wealth. You did not do it because you wish to help the deprived in that area. The truth is you cannot care a toss where you make your money as long as you make it.
I do hate businessmen who claim their purpose is to bring employment to an area. Why can they be honest enough to say that creating employment is only a 'by the way' consequence? The truth is they would not mind decimating employment if that is what it takes to make money.
And then there are people foolish enough to believe they are helping with employment. No businessman would employ anyone whose contribution to the business is less than the cost of the latter's employment.
Like I said, TallGraham, I am not against you improving yourself. I am just against the emphasis you placed on 'helping local tradesmen'. You telling me if you can get the work done a lot cheaper by 'outside' tradesmen, you would still insist on using your local tradesmen? | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:55:48 AM | MissSelf, I think you miss the point. I am certain TG would start his business abroad if that is what it takes for him to make more money. Surely you cannot be that naive?
As to Sir Alan, he never claimed to provide 'employment, etc.' when he is making money - it is just business. His charity work is a completely different matter and he does not claim to do both at the same enterprise. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/14/2008 2:59:07 AM |
TallGraham, here we go again... I also made a lot of money to pay all my employees salaries as well. On top of that I made a lot of money for all the local tradesmen that I used to refit the building we use as our office. Yeah, that is why you make money.... to pay wages & tradesmen. That is the reason why you wish to make money. You actually think we believe that is why you wish to make money... to pay wages? I do not have any objection to your financial success at all. The thing I do object to is your emphasis that your business brought riches to a poor area. It was merely a by-product of your search for wealth. You did not do it because you wish to help the deprived in that area. The truth is you cannot care a toss where you make your money as long as you make it. I do hate businessmen who claim their purpose is to bring employment to an area. Why can they be honest enough to say that creating employment is only a 'by the way' consequence? The truth is they would not mind decimating employment if that is what it takes to make money. And then there are people foolish enough to believe they are helping with employment. No businessman would employ anyone whose contribution to the business is less than the cost of the latter's employment. Like I said, TallGraham, I am not against you improving yourself. I am just against the emphasis you placed on 'helping local tradesmen'. You telling me if you can get the work done a lot cheaper by 'outside' tradesmen, you would still insist on using your local tradesmen?
Kobayashi, yes indeed here we go again...... another person without the facts deciding to make uninformed statements. And then giving me the "here we go again" routine because I choose to stand up for myself and not be walked all over.
Firstly my financial success hardly makes me rich at all. I have the feeling that some of you seem to think I'm minted. You couldn't be further from the truth.
Secondly, how dare you sit there and type such drivel professing to tell me why I made decisions? Unless you are an all powerful mind reader who can do such across an internet forum then how can you know why I did what I did? You can't!!!!! 
So for your uninformed little mind. Yes I could have run the business much, much, much cheaper in another town in Britain or even abroad in India. I had many other quotes from large companies to do the work on the offices that were cheaper, but I intentionally worked with local businessmen to help try and do my bit to build up my home town.
You have to make money today to live, fact. How you choose to make your money is up to you. However, there is much more to life than making money. There are far more important things like helping others, or at least trying to.
Why is it that you and others on here have such a hard time believing that someone doing well genuinely wants to help others in the process? And it is these cinical views and comments that stop many others from doing the same as I have done. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/14/2008 6:50:08 AM | So you are agreeing with me then Kobayashi in saying that if Tall Graham wanted to make more money he could have started his business abroad. Thankyou
I have more respect for him for employing local people and using local tradesmen as I am sure he could find cheaper larger countrywide companies.
As to what point you were making I still have no idea apart from saying I am naive and "borned yesterday"
So why am I naive?
I have respect for those that make themselves money as I have stated. Even if that was their sole purpose after all why do you go to work? Not just because you may enjoy it.
I think you are trying to make yourself feel superiour over me by your comments that I am naive and born yesterday over my comments that you have now agreed with?
The fact that you have contradicted yourself in agreeing with my points suggests that you just want to have some digs at forumites and furthermore if you accuse me of such things that you have agreed with does that now make you niave and "borned yesterday?"
I am also of the opinion that you may be slightly jealous of Tall Graham | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:10:22 AM | | I think all the looney lefties that have let the system get abused by people like this have a lot to answer for, I have to work 12 and 14 hour days to keep my garage afloat and my lads employed, this woman should be publically gagged, and if the "Romanies"/"Gypsies"/"Pikeys" get upset it'd be their responsibility to keep the woman quiet, one thing to milk the system of benefits, but to publically make statements about it is another, are the voters of this country asleep? | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:41:50 AM | | Good on her! im tired of reading threads like this that make out that these people are the ones doing the bad things!! why dont everyone just get a grip and realise that its THE GOVERNMENT! our government have become atheist immoral so and sos. This is why so many people are milking them! She has ilegally married her child off so send her to prison take her kids off her and give her a harsh punishment! There should be a rule that states how many people can live under one roof. Until punishment and harsher rules are introduced im afraid we will get people like this. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother.. ....
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:54:01 AM |
"I don't care what the neighbours think, or social services. It's not my problem people around here don't understand our culture and values."
Although in part I would agree that someone living in england should partly adopt the culture of the country they are living in...after all the benefits to be had from living in this country far outweigh what you could expect in other countries (by that I mean basic ammenities).
You also have to respect the fact that this is a culture that does hold its own values & will always continue to do so. I think the story is another case of bashing a minority for the sake of creating a bit of public outcry.....often these stories don't give all the facts & just serve to wind people up.
Personally I agree with the point another poster made regarding the fact that the government allows this to happen & doesn't do enough to get people like this into some form of work or jail her for not sending the kids to school. She may hold the values of her gypsy way of life very dear to her, but there is nothing to say that these kids would make that choice themselves knowing that they may well just be destined for a way of life without too many options or opportunities to find a way out when they are old enough. That is the part I would say is most wrong.
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother.. ....
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:15:46 AM |
She has ilegally married her child off so send her to prison take her kids off her and give her a harsh punishment!
How has she?
Even just reading the thread would give the info that it wasn't a proper marriage and that the couple wre not living together or having sex. So what law has been broken?
Should she have arranged a marriage for her daughter? Different cultures have different ways. Who are we to say that our arrangements - falling in love, marrying, having kids and then divorcing -are any better?
Yep, they're overcrowded, pretty much her choice too. We're used to the luxury of having a room to ourself or perhaps sharing with a sibling. It's not that long ago that the situation was somewht different. My Great granny brought up 10 of her own, 3 cousins (taken in cos their parents were killed in the war) and had my mum for a while. All in a two bedromed flat, It was common then. If property issues carry on the way they ae, maybe it'll be common again in the future.
Yes, we can get peed off with her attitude, it does put two fingers up at the country that supports her and her family but as long as she obeys the law (ok, not bothering to pay her rent would probably indicate that she may not), she can say whatever she likes about anything she likes. Just like we can. | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother.. ....
Posted: 5/14/2008 3:47:53 PM | At least shes not living in 3 council houses that have all been knocked into each other creating a 9 bedroom, 3 bathroom house for their pleasure!
Its quite common even for British travelling "gypsy" families to stop sending their daughters to school when they are old enough to read and write, they are running the home and out "hawking" by the time they are 12, married young and looked after by their husbands from that moment onwards.
I do agree though that anyone, in any country, is however obligated to live by its laws.
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother.. ....
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:04:47 PM | must admit not read the whole story properly, but get the gist that its ok for a 14 yr old to marry because of a faith 'gypsy' but she doesnt like the british criticism ?
so sod off back to where your values are important or dont include it in british press.... this was totally a money making scam... why else would her 'values' be needed ? If it was her beliefs then she would defend them.. which to a point she did.. but why would it make the papers ? | |
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| British values mean nothing to me, says gipsy mother......
Posted: 5/15/2008 3:52:17 AM | TallGraham, I will have to take your word for what you said. What I object to is the emphasis you placed on 'helping the local tradesmen'. You know too well it is just business.
If you do actually do what you said in msg 63, there is no need to broadcast it... unless you need an ego boost. | |
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