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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/13/2008 4:53:53 PM |
I think it can be a double standard when a person admits that this is what he/she needs to do because he/she can't cope mentally with a situation. She did what she thought was the right thing at the time, she didn't leave him, he stayed for as long as he wanted to stay in the matrimonial home. and when he was ready, HE chose to move to a place where they had full time care, it was HIS idea to move there, NOT hers.
She loved him, looked after him, carried him as far as she could then said, I can't carry you anymore. She was honest with him because she felt that was necessary.
You say HE chose to leave, HIS idea to move, but what other choice did he have but to move to a place with full-time care. Who would want to be with someone who wanted out of the marriage? She didn't leave him a choice, when you think about it.
Funny thing about love, if one truly loves another, they think of their well being above their own. Seems like maybe he did love her more than she did him. JMO | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/13/2008 4:58:31 PM | I have a friend as well, who divorced after her husband of 13 years contracted a major illness. She stayed for 7 more years till she could no longer care for him at home. She told me that they had been having serious problems before they ever knew he was sick. After he was diagnosed he became depressed, drank a lot was verbally abusive to her and their 4 kids. She worked 3 jobs to keep their family home and have the kids finish school. But at 49 she'd had enough. She was exhausted. She still three years after the divorce has never dated so it wasn't for company, it was for pure sanity.
I try not to judge others by what you see on the outside. Only that family knew what life was truly like in that house. Being a caregiver is a thankless, difficult job. | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/13/2008 4:58:46 PM | My mother passed away in October. She was ill for a very long time, but my father stayed by her side every step of the way. He never complained, not once. Thats what you do when you love someone. Sorry your friend is selfish  | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:05:29 PM | As I come back to this thread again to read peoples’ responses, one thing puzzles me. There has been mentioned a couple of times, the ‘walk a mile in my shoes’ argument – with that insinuation that it makes a greater justification for a moral decision. Let me first mention that I don’t mean to belittle those comments, the people who made them or OP’s friend and the situation that she was in, but I have many things that I believe morally that I’ve not had personal experience with that I know how I would react if I was faced with them. As it turns out, I have had experience with this in that I cared for someone that I loved for the last ten years of his life, moving into his home and uprooting my own life for the last five years of it. And there was never a question of whether I should or should not do it. I just did it. I believe that we make commitments in life, some of which are extremely difficult to honour – and marriage is one of them. I know that I’d find it very difficult to respect someone who left a loved one at any point solely because of a serious illness (something beyond that person's control). And I don’t see how me ‘walking a mile in their shoes’ would make my opinion any more or less valid.
cdn guy | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:10:08 PM | being a caregiver is a very difficult task....to spend years taking charge of the house, the family, the chores, the finances without having the opportunity to be recharged and revitalized is what makes caregivers eventually crumble and quite often become resentful of their "lot in life" as well as their loved one.
There are many ways to recharge and revitalize. There is respite care...the ill person can be taken to a care facility for the day or for a weekend....someone can be hired to come into your home to provide care if friends or relatives are unable or unwilling to help out.
During this time, the caregiver can take time out for herself, whether she goes to a spa to be pampered, finds a quiet park to read a book, does bridge night with the girls or just does a girls night out.
Friends and relatives should be there for the caregiver when she needs to vent her frustrations without spreading what she said to everyone else in the friend/family circle. But this doesn't usually happen. She is left to find a way to deal with it on her own. She is left feeling very alone and discouraged.
Your friend was very lucky to have one friend in her life that understood and supported her. Whether or not she made the right decision is not up to any of us to decide, but, considering that we are all getting older and that we are coming to realize our own mortality, we are concerned about getting ill and being a burden on someone else. I can understand how the men your friend meets become concerned about how long she'll stick around for them. After all, he had the kids, family, many years of wedded bliss as a foundation before he became ill. The new men that she is meeting, may only have a couple of years to build a foundation before cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc., blows the lid off the gluepot.
I won't sit in judgement of your friend, nor will I sit in judgement of the men who are afraid to take the chance with her. She made her decision and she will have to find a way to live with the consequences. She's not getting a mulligan on this one; she just needs to play it from where it lies. | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:13:06 PM | Not everyone is as strong as the next guy. We are not all made from the same cloth. My Father cared for both elderly parents through strokes, cancer, dementia. It was hard, painful and emotionally draining but he did it. Many have the emotional and physical fortitude to be a caregiver others do not.
When you get married at 25 you have no idea what life at 45 0r 60 will be like. Nor do you have any idea whether your spouse will love you as much. We all hope for the best but there are no guarantees in life. So good caregivers can pat themselves on the back all day, but also need to realize that not everyone is capable of being completely selfless just like not everyone is capable of going to medical school or singing Opera. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:18:14 PM | | If I was looking for someone to stay with over the long haul, and they had shown they would up and run, that would put me off starting up with them. I never expect anyone to stay more than a day at a time. I wouldn't want anyone staying with me who didn't really want to, but did just because they thought they should. I know by now that when people express a desire to stay forever all they really mean is it would hurt if it ended today. There comes a time when they feel otherwise. In this case, I bet the main problem is the woman would need forgiveness you couldn't give. It would have to come from him and from her own self. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:20:49 PM | OP -- You leave out critical details. Did you friend actually LEAVE him or not? Is he still alive? Did she divorce him? Does she still live in "their" home, filled with all his stuff living off some of his earned health benefits or pension?
One of the issues is whether or not this woman is independent or not. If she's still married, then she's no better than any low-down player that lies about having an OPEN marriage. If she calls herself separated, yet still keeps all his stuff, again it's like she's just a player or a gold-digger.
The response that women always give to men is: GET YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST. Meaning she need to divorce him and move out and establish a new residence before fooling around or dating men.
After she's established her independence, it should still be no shock that men run when they find out she bailed out on a sick spouse. She can have as many boyfriends as she wants, just don't expect anyone to want to move in with her. | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:01:05 AM |
As I come back to this thread again to read peoples’ responses, one thing puzzles me. There has been mentioned a couple of times, the ‘walk a mile in my shoes’ argument – with that insinuation that it makes a greater justification for a moral decision.
I believe this is called "situational ethics", form your ethics based on the situation to justify choices that feel good.
To "walk a mile", in this case would include having an ill spouse and choosing to have an affair.
I don't buy into the argument she made a moral decision to tell him of her desire to have a sexual/emotionally intimate relationship outside her marriage which is considered an immoral act.
I don't buy into the idea of not making judgments either. I have to laugh when I see someone using the 'you shouldn't be judgmental' argument comming from those that reject a date cause of no chemistry (a judgment call), that decide to get a divorce (a judgment call), leave a sick spouse (a judgment call). We all make judgments, correct or incorrect, we make them. But that doesn't mean I will assign a punishment or not sympathize with those that make errors in judgments but I don't have pity for this woman because the men she has affairs with leave her and I don't have pity for her because she's lonely.
I'll save the pity for the lonely guy in the care facility. I know exactly how that feels. | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:58:46 AM | Interesting situation at best. How horrible for both to live in that environment knowing their own past was probably filled with hope for a bright future. Whether one witnesses or lives certain situations as you have presented it is impossible to say "I would have done..." or speculate on how I would react. I think I hold out hope for living the best I could with what life has handed me...in short making lemonade when given lemons. But, I can see where sometimes the lemons would be so bitter that no matter the amount of sweetner added would change a situation so that all involved would be happy with the possible outcomes.
And, if the friend remains married with the spouse in the "home" being medically cared for, that means just that: still married. | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/14/2008 5:55:41 AM |
Do you think this is a good reason for not wanting to be involved with someone?
Personally, I think it is a great reason for not wanting to develop a relationship with someone.
My father had a heart ailment most of his adult life but it got debilitating in his mid 40’s. My mother and I both worked as much as we could to support us when he could no longer work as well as caring for him for decades until his death. I also put my social life on hold for over a year to help care for a niece (so did her sister) several years ago when she was in a near fatal car accident. She literally had to learn how to do just about everything again and still has memory loss. I can’t tell you how many people were stunned that anyone would make such a sacrifice for “just a niece. In my view this what you do for loved ones, especially if you know in your heart they would the same for you if they could. | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/14/2008 6:30:46 AM | | ^^Exactly Blue! I have not been in a situation that the OP describes, but I know I could not walk away from my responsibilities. The thing that really "gets me" about this entire issue is that the gal felt the NEED to tell her hubby about wanting to get sex outside of the marriage. Wth? Sure, I understand her struggles with everything but why hurt the man that way? I don't care if they were "close" or not, there was absolutely no reason for her to treat him that way.... | |
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| When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:45:42 AM | I think people are overlooking the fact that the woman in the OP's scenario apparently had some kind of mental breakdown of her own. I don't believe for a second that telling her man (and children, for heaven's sake!) that she felt she had to leave him or find something "on the side" was an act of a mentally balanced individual. That was sheer punishment (even if it was subconscious).
Really, if she could hit them with THAT "honesty," she could also have hit them with the "honesty" of no longer being able to physically cope with care-giving in the home and together picked a long-term care facility and made plans about how they'd continue the companionship element of their relationship. She could have rebuilt a separate "life," while still being there for him to the end. Instead, the blow of abandonment and betrayal will go with them both to their graves. NOT a "sane" action, in my opinion.
My partner and I actually talked about this, during a time when his mother was dying of dementia. We agreed that we'd figure something out which would allow us to stay together, while also being free to maintain a healthy social life (which could have included a sex life), without guilt.
We even joked along the lines of hiring a hot, slutty female nurse if I was the one who became disabled or infirm and a hot, slutty male nurse if it was him. Obviously, that wasn't reality-based. A discreet pairing with someone else in a similar situation would have been much more likely scenario, if it came to that.
If I ever couple up again (highly unlikely), it will again only be for life, and it will also only be with someone I'd be able to talk to about this kind of stuff with in advance. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:04:02 PM | OP, let me make this perfectly clear, people who have NOT walked in these shoes, should really not be judgemental. What those people don't understand is that raising the children, working, and caring for the disabled is mentally and physically exhausting and very unhealthy. Sometimes, the caregiver must also consider their own health, mentally and physically or they are no good to anyone. Many of these people try to be a very good caregiver, however, the proper thing to have done, was place them somewhere to be cared for 24/7 prior to getting to this point. I am sure, she just didn't decide one day, the grass was greener. These decisions are very difficult and many times for the best to let the professionals to their job.
Been there done that.
outdoorgirl | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:32:27 PM | My former father-in-law (God rest his soul), was married for over 50 years to a woman who was the mother of his four children and a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. It would have been SO EASY for him to walk away (all his sons were born in the 1950's), from both his ill wife and his children, BUT HE NEVER DID!
And yes, he did have discreet female companionship, and never felt compelled to throw it up in his wife's face, his children's face, his daughters -in-laws faces, or his grandchildren's faces....
His wife died 18 months after he did...hopefully they're together in a better place where she is mentally well, and he is physically well. Folks, sometimes it is not what you do, it's HOW you do it..... | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/14/2008 3:27:11 PM |
OP, let me make this perfectly clear, people who have NOT walked in these shoes, should really not be judgemental. What those people don't understand is that raising the children, working, and caring for the disabled is mentally and physically exhausting and very unhealthy./quote]
Boy is this a judgmental statement or what. It says people without similar circumstances are too dumb to make correct judgments.
Maybe some people are too dumb but there's alternatives other than telling your spouse you're having affairs and expecting future lovers to ignore the emotional pain she inflicted on a guy that was already suffering.
I've lived in long-term care and seen way too many spouses come to visit their ill partners.
There are lots of people out there that mean it when they say "for better or worse" and many of those visitors, exhausted from caring for families and their spouse, would never have considered choosing to have affairs. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/14/2008 4:58:58 PM | | She took care of him for over ten years while also taking care of the children and everything else. She burned out. Understandable. I commend her for taking care of him for so many years. I do think she should have been more discreet. There was no reason to tell her husband she was sleeping with someone else, except to unload her guilt. Now her husband is in a home, alone with his illness. Sad situation. Not going to judge her because I know how hard her life must have been. She should simply tell new men in her life that she could no longer care for her husband, that's the truth. I think she's going to carry a lot of guilt for the rest of her life, no easier than caring for her sick husband. People don't always make the right decisions, I feel badly for both of them. I'm glad you're standing by her, she needs a good friend. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/14/2008 6:31:25 PM | I certianly won't judge her.. because I prolly wouldn't do it as long as she did. We'd all like to think that we would hang in there.. but I can't imagine the stress she felt not only him with a debilitating disease but also having to raise the kids by herself.. unbelieveable stress.. you'd need more than your own strength to endure something like that.
My hat goes off to her. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/15/2008 4:20:10 PM | | Ikeria just ignore all of this. Your friend has to do what she needs to do. We humans are not infallible. You have seen her slandered and supported in here. Posts in here have been from the sublime to the ridiculous. No one knows what will happen until they are faced with this situation.You have heard from people who have taken care of spouses mothers, fathers, same sex partners but only she (your friend) can decide what is right for her. Let her do this and support her if needed. It sounds like she has a lot on her plate. JMHO | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/15/2008 6:55:12 PM | | Your friend is very selfish.. Then she is surprised when she tells her next partner what she did and they bail.. Of course they bail she will do it again.. It is like people who cheat with a married person.. Then are surprised when they are cheated on.. Leopard doesn't change it's spots | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:15:42 PM |
When you love someone and marry them, you share their happiness and you share their grief -- by my morality, anyway. Walking out to make a better life for yourself just doesn't 'cut it' with someone like me, no matter what the 'time frame'. I would think that the person that was sick would like to walk away and make a better life for himself as well ... had he not got sick, that is. I, personally, wouldn't give the time of day to someone who walked out on their spouse after they got sick.
I second that 100%. It doesn't surprise me one bit that men dump her upon discovering what lies in store for them if they were to get into a LTR with this woman and became seriously ill at some point. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/16/2008 11:20:39 AM | | hi all you could be talking about me onley im still out & about iv had PD for 11 years last year found out she was seeing someone at work she now lives with him, she tells everyone i never showed her eney affection , but im doing ok | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/16/2008 11:48:57 AM | | I'm sorry folks, I read quite a few thumbs up for the lady written about in this post. But I have to disagree. She bailed on her husband when the chips were down, and that is in no way, shape or form love. It shows lack of dedication and loyalty. I think this is why a lot of men bail on her. No decent guy in his right mind would stick with a woman who left her sick spouse and left him even more hurt and depressed. Because obviously, if something happned to them.. she would probably be out the door as well. I can't say she is misjudged and that i feel sorry for her.. She has buttered her own bread and her actions speak for themselves.. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:44:29 PM | Years ago I worked for the Red Cross. One of my clients was a woman around 40 who had MS. As soon as her husband found this out he left. Immediately. Told their children he had to think of himself. Left his children to bear the brunt of taking care of their mother. Left her sitting in a chair all day at the mercy of someone/anyone who could help her to the bathroom. I hope the same happens to him someday.
A friend of mine suffered a stroke. She and her husband were about 60. I watched her husband care for her for a couple of years. It broke my heart. His life ended as did hers. They were no longer the happy couple I knew. Lifting her, toileting her, doing everything for her drained him. He became verbally abusive. He put off getting medical care for himself because he had to care for her. Finally, he had to put her in a home. Six months later he died of kidney cancer. Such a sad end for such a wonderful couple. While she was in the home she became very involved in several commitees, went on outings. Life wasn't horrible for her there. After seeing them I no longer think putting someone into a care facility is always wrong. Ruining two lives sometimes is. | |
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| He is sick, she left him...
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:50:45 PM | | Thanx Five Marie. This is the whole piont of the thread. I too had to deal with a husband who at a very young age of 19 was paraniod schizophrenic. He was my childhood sweetheart the boy next door who I fell in love with. We were together since the age of thirteen. Married for 7 years. I was 24 when I left him. Dealing with his illness and having three young children to raise I had to make a choice. My sanity or his. Since he was not sane I decided on mine because those kids needed me more. I have no regrets. I have always told this story to any potential partners and have had no problems. I too watched my Dad stumble and strive to take care of my Mom after her stroke. (married for over 50 years) He was beside himself with worry and even though he had help he turned into this nasty person. My parents lives for the last two years was nothing short of horrid. They hated each other. | |
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