|
|
|
|
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:29:39 PM |
Are coffee meets first dates? If so, then the reason I didn't get past those was I didn't want to. I use coffee meets to weed out the people I don't want to go out with.
I don't consider coffee meets to be first dates. The first date happens after you've done the "meet and greet" thing and you both agree that there might be some mutual attraction and neither of you has discovered any "dealbreakers".
In my experience, most "coffee dates" do not lead to a first date because one or both people don't feel any attraction.
Is this delusional?
Do you have a date book? And a "coffee meet" book to keep those terms separate in your mind too?
I guess this way you can have "coffee meets" with dozens of rejectees without having to claim all your dates are losers. That way you don't have to explain you have a history of bad dates or rejecting every guy you meet.
When you arrange to have a... a coffee meet, do you inform the other party that this is just a coffee meet and not a date?
I really have to go to wickipedia and change the entry for the meaning of a date and create a new entry "coffeemeet". | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:53:52 PM | We tend to get so hung up on the terminology of everything ... I think what matters most is that you and the person you're meeting are on the same page.
For me, with most of the men I've met, I've had a conversation prior to the meeting where I've posed the question ... "So this is like a real date then?" or something along those lines. Typically this is in the context of a lighthearted discussion as we're planning the specifics of when and where.
It helps insure we're both on the same page before we ever meet. And before anyone feels a need to pick that quesion apart ... or read anything into it's intention, I'm simply trying to get the guys thoughts about what it is in advance!
We get way to hung up on the symantics of what we call it and lose sight of what it really is ... meeting someone of the opposite sex for the first time ... to see if there is any kind of mutual interest in investing the time necessary to see if there's a possibility of any kind of a relationship between the two developing from there.
MacKevinized: maybe you could create your own dating dictionary, instead of using Wikipedia. That way you wouldn't feel the need to change existing definitions, you could create your own. In my humble opinion, most of what I have seen of your posts over the last year, read as though you have a great deal of personal experience and from your profile, it seems to suggest you see yourself as an authority on this sort of thing! =)
~ keepin it real | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 5:26:30 AM | freetoo327 (did you change your name?), I was thinking about this thread while away from the computer (something I rarely do) and it occurred to me that if most of your first dates, which you have mastered the art of, end in you being selective and not wanting to repeat with the guy - then, what you're ready for is not Second Date 202 but Remedial Screening 001.
Or do you occasionally consent to Second Date, only to have it fizzle? We need more information. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:33:27 AM | OP, I've gone on blind dates and a couple from another dating site. And I'd say the first date should be a meeting without a lot of formal questions. The goal should be for the couple to be more relax and not like an interview. If the date feels like they are in a formal interview this may decrease chances of the date wanting another encounter.
The second date I'd say should be within a week of the first meet. There should be some time for space. It gives the other person something to look forward to. Now on the second date I'd still not be so direct with questions because you'll find that when the other person is comfortable they will begin to initiate providing information about themselves to you.
So I think the real technique is listening. I tend to talk about thirty percent of the date. May seem boring but I find the dates I have gone out with like to talk. So I'd say try not to make it anything like a job or employment because people tend not to want to start work again after they get finish for the day. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:15:36 AM | royalpain: I wonder about the details of what it was you were thinking ...
To answer you first quesion, no I didn't change my name. I started on this site in Feb of 07 and have never had another username.
Maybe "Remedidal Screening 001" is part of the graduate program ... let's hope so!  It too could have some insight to offer I'm sure!
Before answering your last quesiton, I will add a little mroe information. I was married for 25+ years and a short time after my divorce (which I initiated), I dated the first man I met online and was in a shorter, distance (1.5 hours), relationship for about 6 months that ended (his initiating the end) with a lot of pain, heartache and self protection and preservation that followed. Although I continued to meet men (date), with a genuine desire to meet "Mr Right for me" (who has at least as many flaws and scars as I do), I just have not met anyone since ... that I feel any chemistry, magic, desire or excitement ... about seeing again.
On to answer your question, do I occasionally consent to a second date, only to have it fizzlle ... yes. There have in the last 2 + years been 2 or 3 men (out of possibly 25 ... I don't keep track) that as we said goodbye, there was talk of "doing this again". Regardless of what we've done for the date (coffee, dancing, walks, a homemade dinner, lunch, bowling, a movie, drinks, dinner, shopping, breakfast, a speaker, a bookstore, boating, etc.) and regardless of who paid, I've followed the dates with a nice follow up note or phone call ... thanking them for the time we spent together and anything else appropriate for that particular date.
For whatever reasons, there has not been enough mutual interest (chemistry) that leads to a second date.
When I remember what it was like with the only man I actually "dated" for any length of time, I recall a feeling of natural ease about everything. Outside of the first meeting, which was completely spontaneous and unexpected, everything that followed, had a natural ease and comfort in it's developmental stages. I don't ever recall wondering what it was, needing to define it, having to label it! It just was ... and it was natural and it was comfortable and it was easy and it was so much fun and it was uncomplicated (for the most part), and it was beautiful and it was never taken for granted. It was a natural friendship (mutual and exclusive) from it's inception. It was ... exactly as it was supposed to be!
It should be clear by now, that I don't have a huge "frame of reference" for the dating experience I have had in my adult life. And quite frankly, I have often told others ... "I don't think I do this part of my life very well". I am much better at the commitment and investment than I am at casual and early stages of development.
Although, I have let go of past relationships, and have moved on, some of what I hope to find in another relationship has stemmed from the best parts of what I've experienced. I am not so niave as to believe this will be there from it's inception or that it will come without it's fair share of "stuff" as every relationship does. Every relationship is an investment ... whether it be of time, energy, self, finances ~ and each requires both have a vested interest in it's development.
When it comes to first dates, if I see yellow flags ... I think my mindset is that they are likely red flags in waiting and should be heeded with the same precaution that the red ones present with. I have good intuition and do know how important it is to listen to the "voice inside" (and not just the ones in my head silly!) as it is in my spirit that I am able to get the peace that usually has the "green light" prompting me to move forward and follow my gut!
~ keepin it real | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:25:42 AM |
MacKevinized: maybe you could create your own dating dictionary, instead of using Wikipedia. That way you wouldn't feel the need to change existing definitions, you could create your own. In my humble opinion, most of what I have seen of your posts over the last year, read as though you have a great deal of personal experience and from your profile, it seems to suggest you see yourself as an authority on this sort of thing!
I really prefer using the definitions from real dictionaries, it's much less confusing.
As for experience, and authority I have no idea what you're talking about. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:41:55 AM | Okay...the chicka looking at your profile was just me had to check your age, couldn't believe you're old enough to go thru 25 yrs of marriage, LOL! you age well!
I'm walking in your footsteps or vice versa. Ditto to everything you've said! But I just changed my line of thinking and met a male friend on here in the forums, that I now find myself very attracted to and we are seeing each other now. I quit looking, decided it was getting old and set about to make some good friends instead. Hopefully this is going to be the end of my searching, he's an awesome guy, but if not....I'll be back to join you in advanced dating 202! Nothing personal, but I really really hope you don't see me in the classroom | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 11:42:26 AM |
When you arrange to have a... a coffee meet, do you inform the other party that this is just a coffee meet and not a date?
Nah. Anyone I would meet for coffee is smart enough to know it is just a chance to look each other over and decide if we want to actually pursue a dating situation. I don't think that e mail, IM and the phone are enough info for me to know a person well enough to "date" them..but perhaps my personal definition of dating is different than yours.
One thing about language; it is fluid, and ever changing. A few short years ago the word gay meant happy, fairies were small mischievious woodland dwellers, and rainbows were signs in the sky that God would never flood the entire world again.
I have many more references of how words have changed over the years, but I don't want to confuse you...and further irritate you. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:45:31 PM | This whole discussion reminds of a recent conversation I had with one of my sons. He was having a similar sort of problem as freetoo. Actually it's a constantly recurring theme in these forums though not specifically about second dates. What puzzled me was that this situation was very different from what I experienced back when I was dating. A few thoughts come to mind.
Dating, what is it all about? Basically, it's our courtship ritual. (other animals do it differently, lol) Now when I was actively dating, was I specifically looking for a mate? Not at all. I'm sure had I been asked, most of the time I would has denied being interested in marriage. But of course, actually I was certainly open to the idea should a suitable partner come along. I was mostly looking for fun, company, someone to share my interests, someone compatible and of course a sexual partner.
Women complain constantly that all the men they meed are only interested in sex. All I can say is from m y own experiences, women are just as interested as men, often more so. After all, marriage is a sexual relationship. I mean, I can have dinner or play tennis with my guy friends.
Did I ever take out a woman just because I wanted to get her into bed? I think the last time I did that was when I was about 16. (I didn't get her there either, sigh) Did I have a lot of first dates only? Not since I was quite young. The problem I think with internet dating is many times you are essentially going out on a blind date. You hardly know this person at all. It's no wonder that casual almost random contacts rarely turn into long term relationships. Especially when people treat a date like a job interview, instead of just for fun. Look, if you don't have great expectations, you will rarely be disappointed.
I pretty much knew before I asked a woman out, whether I was interested in her and she in me. But then these were people I was meeting face to face, talked to first, noticed some attraction on both our parts. I really don't know what people mean by chemistry. I get the impression that folks are looking for that “Some Enchanted Evening” thing across a crowded room ... Well, real life rarely works that way. I think that happened to me only once. It was great fun for a few weeks but burned out fast when we discovered that we really had little to hold us together beyond sexual attraction. No real attraction, connection, bonding takes time and willingness to accept what is rather that run off some checklist.
Can internet dating actually work? Sure it can. I can think of two cases in the last year or so. A cousin of mine met his wife on the much maligned eharmony site. I know, lots of complaints, but it worked for them. Another friend, we sing in the same choir, just married a guy she met on another site and incidentally, she is around 65 years old.
I'm not sure what it all means, but as I told my son, “I meet interesting and attractive women all the time”. He replied, “well it's easy for you since you already have someone”. Well he does have a point I suppose but I still think people just make it harder than it needs to be. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 5:45:57 PM | This may not be exactly what you were asking, OP, but here are some thoughts on those that find second dates (should they have them) so much more difficult to go on than first dates. The big problem with second dates – the one that makes it so much more difficult than the first date – is the (often unsaid) statement that “I like this person”. This is obviously the reason why you are both there a second time and is not present on first dates, as you are just meeting for the first time. And a lot of people get all screwed up with this.
First dates are all about meeting someone for the first time, and this, in its entirety, can be the “raison d’etre” for you both to be there. But date no. 2 is a vastly different story. You’re there for a different reason, and what this reason is, and how the two parties interact with it is the difficult part. How much do I let on that I kinda like this person ? What level of intimacy – mental and/or physical – do I show ? Where should I start conversation ? ... personal ? ... general ? Controlling oneself as emotions heighten or knowing what to say as you realize that they won’t are two of the more difficult things to do in the wonderful world of dating. You don’t get these problems with a first date. On a first date, people can often get by with just being there to meet the other person and share a bit of general conversation. On the second date, you are on a much different level. And no, I’m not going to come up with great ideas on how to make second dates easier to do -- other than maybe, just being aware of the problems and differences. There are none that I’m aware of. I suppose on the second date, the best idea, is to take more time concentrating on what the other person is saying and reacting to it, rather than on the first date, when conversation by both parties tends to be a little more self-centered (as you describe yourselves to the other person).
In your case, OP, when you’re having trouble actually initiating or saying yes to a second date, the answer seems fairly simple to me – you’re not meeting anyone you want to date a second time. You will. And when you do, I doubt that you’ll have trouble finding ways to initiate a second date.
Personally, my own favourite is the third date – but that’s only because I am a perfectly proper sorta feller that likes to adhere to all the known ‘rules’.
cdn guy | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:30:51 PM | I think your description of the second date is right on target, cdn guy! And yes, I do consider the infamous "coffee dates" to be just that in online dating. Both people need to see if there is enough interest to have a real, honest to goodness first date with all that anticipation.
I have to admit that I miss very much the initial in-person encounter with someone and the sparks are flying. Just chemistry, I know, but exciting nevertheless. I am beginning to doubt that it will ever happen for me again, but I keep hoping. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:02:09 PM | I think I was married too long. Far too long to ..... well just out of the dating thing too long.
I’ve always been the same (and you can save the shallow crap).
1st I would need to like her looks. I would have to KNOW FOR SURE I would continue to like her looks. Along with becoming my best friend she would ALWAYS be my girlfriend not just a female friend. (save the what if she got ran over by a train - shallow junk)
2nd I would need to ****LIKE**** her - really really like her as a person.
I am pretty good at “long term” thinking and *picking*.
My first wife changed looks a great deal in 16 years ..... I still liked her looks. The oh so important “like” started falling off the more she drank.
My second wife changed looks a great deal in the 17 years married (now 22 years still in touch) since I met her and I still like her looks. I also still “like” her and she still likes me a great deal.
So I am actually a good forecaster for longer term.
To the topic:
I am only speaking of me and my “problems” I am not saying it is normal what so ever. I’ve now been single for 4.5 years and pretty much stopped trying to date about three years ago.
- gals at the mid-late 40s (my only exp) seemed kind of .... loose - moral wise. I realize the days of “what will you think of me” are over but still ...
- I could not see a long term potential match. I could not see them being my actual girlfriend or even best friend for all that long.
The first gal that easily passed the looks test - turned out to be a racist and that made me sick.
The second gal that passed the looks part - turned out to be a past drug dealer and had been in prison for it. About the time I tried to tell myself - the past is the past she told me she had herpes ......... things went “soft” .... before we ever ..... you know.
My bottom line is ..... any gal that I could see becoming a potential long term (I know I am too old to think long term) would have 50 guys at her beckoned call. Of those 50 guys ..... several of them would be better for her than I would be. I readity admit that because it is true.
I myself don’t think I am “enough” for the gal that I would be interested in.
If she settled for me - or I settled for her ......... we would both be living in a lie.
“What have you concluded is the reason for your inability to get past the first date?”
I actually have never had that happen. No one has ever turned me down for a 2nd date. I expect if I ever do go out with a gal that makes me think long term potential ........ she will no doubt turn me down - and should (see above) - she could do better than me.
OP - I am no expert but - maybe you have ran across guys like me. We don’t want to act interested (just for sex). We don’t want to lead anyone on. We don’t want anyone thinking we are players ........ we just let it fizzle. We respect others too much to do anything else. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:26:46 PM | I learned everything I wanted to know about dating from reading these forums. I am not kidding. Then I decided all the rules and categories and guidelines were just a valiant attempt to manage what is unmanageable. So I let go of my fear of being without rules and let go of the rules I had so carefully constructed. I let go of the term date after a discussion of whether meeting for coffee was a date or not. When I asked the lady if adding a bagel would make it a date, she hung up.
So now I have first e-mails, first phone calls, first face-to-face meetings. I am not enamored of the idea that I can, after one of any of these, tell for sure if I should have another or not. Unless it is some terrible disaster, I always express an interest in a second and let the lady decide. I am greatly impressed by my total inability to predict what will happen next, so I don't see any reason to keep on trying. If it keeps on going it is because we both are enjoying it. If it does not, it is because one of us finds reason to stop. So instead of worrying about all that, I just try to be mindful of what I am doing and saying in the moment I am in. That seems to make more difference than anything else I have ever tried to do. | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:30:11 PM | I just think if there is any possiblity that something might spring up out of the relationship that a 2nd date is imperative if you want to find a LTR because of the nervouness factor. I usually am not that nervous on a first date.. but lots of people are when when they are nervous they have a tendency to hide themselves from the other person. It is just next to impossible to discern who the person is at that early juncture..
but of course that is just my opinion.. hahaha
Seeker.. another great post will you marry me??hahahahaha rofl | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/20/2008 6:44:39 AM | great post Ron9 !! I feel exactly the same.
I'm very suspicious of anyone who would want to date me - a part of me always thinks there must be something wrong with them !! I don't want to settle and don't want anyone 'settling' for me
maybe it's unattainable but I'd like to find my ideal guy and have him think I'm the best thing since sliced bread etc..
so far the feelings are always more one sided | |
|
| Graduating from
Posted: 5/20/2008 6:57:42 PM | Some interesting honest discussion!
Ron9: I wonder how many of us would have to agree that we have often subscribed to the line of thinking that has us wondering if the ones we are drawn to have many more suitable men or women interested in them that they would be better off with. Or thinking that we are not good enough for the ones we seem to be attracted to ... or that they would be settling for ... if choosing us over what they might otherwise deserve in our eyes!
I realize it is the essence of my imperfection that often gets in the way of my own attaining that which I desire! And why is it I have a strong tendency to to let that imperfection be the thing I focus on ... devalueing the things that others find so attractive about me!
Is this the epitomy of self-sabbotage when it comes to the opposite sex?
I've often said that if I could only learn to see myself through the eyes of the ones who love me unconditionally and accept myself the way they seem to be able to ... then maybe I too could graduate! 
I am but a work in progress! Still learning! 
I think I should go study some more!
~ keepin it real | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
