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Posted: 5/16/2008 1:24:08 AM | I totally agree I like to know what I can work on ... AFTER I get to know them well not after the first date.
Weird thou, I am still an ***hole!! | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 1:41:14 AM | Yeah that's it, I'm just not confident enough to want to have someone want to change me on the first date.  | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 1:49:46 AM | I've always heard there are only two times we should give advice:
1. If it's a life or death situation. 
2. If it's asked for! 
Of course between best friends we should be told if there's lipstick on our teeth or toilet paper on our shoes but other than that........hold back.
**(Words exchanged between good friends are different anyway because they know how to phrase things as helpful because they know us.....where as the same words spoken by a stranger may be hurtful!) | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 2:36:22 AM | | His behaviour was very unnecessary and disrespectful. He should focus on himself and ways on improving himself (obviously he has much work to do). I would have given him the list and then tossed his ass back | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 5:29:01 AM |
BTW we are still dating and he is going to read this
I guess you got the job huh...  | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 5:56:13 AM | Thanks everybody!
Ouch- Looks like I'll be making an appointment to go to the self-esteem/confidence repair shop! Can anyone recommend a good one? lol
Seriously, I lost weight as part of a healthy living program, not to please a man. My confidence is growing--- if this keeps up, I will be positively unbearable.
I'm moving out of state in a couple of weeks so the issue of continuing to date him is moot.
The important thing is that I won the argument, lol.
But can I get some more guys' comments? So he doesn't think he is being ganged up on by women? | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 6:28:13 AM | Is there anyone out there who really wants to know what people think of him or her?
Well, I would want to know. As far as getting defensive, than don't ask, if you don't want to know. Course, it doesn't mean I would change.
For example, if someone is a vegetarian, and telling me that eating meat is bad, I would just say, well, that's your opinion, but wouldn't stop eating my steak.
It was weird however, that he told you all that after a first date. He must have a gift of getting to know women really fast. Sorry, that I can't be on his side.
And I can't be on your side either kdwildflowers..
I know he did not mean to be unkind, but my feelings were hurt nonetheless. ..But you were still dating him?? You like being hurt? Wonder what else he was telling you? Maybe you like to be in a dominant relationship, where a men tells you whatever he wants, and you just obey him..I mean HIM, as a GOD..
You moving... That's a good thing...By the way, what argument did you won??
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Posted: 5/16/2008 7:00:49 AM | Sweetheart, You have to be kidding me, right? You gave him another date?
He thought I needed to lose weight ( I have since lost 20 pounds) and that I did not carry myself with confidence (he thought he could have overlooked the excess weight if I had)
Any man that would comment on a woman's weight is an ahole! I guess he's perfect? Commenting on what went wrong on the date is one thing, commentin on a person's appearance (the negative aspects) is another story! IMO, someone who asks for feedback is probably lacking in self confidence himself. How long has he been single?
Also, why are you concerned bout women ganging up on him? He's an arse!! Some people have no class.
I am rolling my eyes on this one!  | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 7:29:18 AM | | The point of etiquette is to care for the feelings of others, treating them with kindness and respect. To report back after a date with criticism is rude and unkind and should not be done. The grade he gets for submitting your report card is F for Fail. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 7:39:27 AM | Well I think your lucky he didnt have a print out to check off on the first date.
"Hey could you fill this assessment sheet out and I'll do the same for you and we can work on our weak areas before the next date" haha the guy is anal | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 9:44:39 AM | Before we met, I let him read an essay I wrote about what I am looking for or not looking for in a man. He said it sounded like a job description. Maybe I set myself up for a critique?
Why did I keep dating him? Call me crazy, but I've always been attracted to nerdy socially backward analytical genius types. (I'm sure he would say he doesn't fit this description)
Hence the line from my profile, "Nothing makes my heart go pitter-pat like a man with a big cerebral cortex." He's smart, funny, musically gifted and physically exactly my type-- when I am with him I feel like a toasted marshmallow. So I cut him some slack.
What argument did I win? He says people want or should want to know where they fall short so they can improve.
I say they don't want to know, don't want to change, and just get defensive if you say anything, even if they ask for your opinion; and it's hurtful and nonproductive, so keep it to yourself.
So far there are more people agreeing with me-- so I win the argument, right?
I'm not concerned about women ganging up on him-- I just don't want the results of my "survey" to be gender biased.
A few people, more males than females, seem to be able to look at the dating process like it's basketball or something-- Hey coach, how can I improve my game? Pragmatic, perhaps, in theory, but probably not effective in practice, judging by the response. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 10:27:56 AM | | Nobody is agreeing with you that people don't want to know or be told or to change. They are saying that sending a critical report card after a date is rude. Now that the rest of the story is on the table, he's right. The question becomes whether the advice is asked for or just volunteered. Someone who would rather live oblivious to their faults will drive others way. Friends help each other improve in keeping with what each wants to improve about themselves, and that does include discussing faults. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 10:54:50 AM | | So youre saying you would prefer him just not calling back and leave you hanging? | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 12:01:27 PM |
That's a good question.
Rejection hurts whether you know the reason for it or not.
What I would prefer is that he look past my physical appearance and see that I am the same lovable person, with or without the extra 20 pounds.
Maybe that is asking too much.
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Posted: 5/16/2008 12:20:58 PM |
What I would prefer is that he look past my physical appearance and see that I am the same lovable person, with or without the extra 20 pounds. Maybe that is asking too much.
He thought I needed to lose weight ( I have since lost 20 pounds) and that I did not carry myself with confidence (he thought he could have overlooked the excess weight if I had)
I'm suspecting it had a lot more to do with the "carrying yourself with confidence" thing than the 20 pounds things. This must have happened quite a while ago, since you say you've since lost 20 pounds. Were you, in fact, going on about your weight on that first date, complaining and putting yourself down? That can be quite negative and unpleasant, especially if the the actual bit of extra weight DOESN'T particularly matter to the person who's listening. Just wondering.
Best wishes, though. I hope you can overcome the confidence problem and be more happy with yourself. Everyone deserves that. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 12:33:49 PM | KD,
Don't worry about it. If there was anything useful in what he said to you, fine. Use it. But my guess is there probably wasn't much.
It would have been fine for him to ask you what you thought of him, but he was out of line to tell you anything unless you asked him for feedback.
He's a social beginner, that's all. You might have picked up on that sooner with his "sounds like a job description" remark.
Part of dating is learning to let go and forgive. He was doing the best he knew how. At least he wasn't your parent and you can walk away from it. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 12:43:19 PM | I wouldn't mind receiving a report card... I would never see the score keeper again, but sure -- let me see your gripes!
As Ace said, if anything he says is useful -- great -- otherwise ignore it and smile realizing you now know why he is single. | |
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hat18
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Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 43 | |
| Feedback or Criticism?
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:54:09 PM | I don't see how feedback would do much good. It might be interesting to see if your assessment of how things went matched the other person's, to see how well you read someone. But are you really going to try to change because someone suggests that you should? And the advice won't necessarily help with the next personyou date, who may like the very quality the first person found fault with.
Maybe being yourself, within reason, and finding someone who desires you as-is makes more sense. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 2:42:08 PM | | What's wrong with this that just because someone doesn't like something about you, doesn't mean you have to improve! To think so is very judgemental - most differences are just that - differences. Different isn't necessarily WRONG! Your date has a very self-centered view of the world and is also wrong to think everyone wants to know his opinion! | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 5:14:42 PM | Frau Blucher: Power point presentation--- good one! ROTFLMAOjavascript:smilie('')
javascript:smilie('')
Dawn: Re: must have been a long time ago: Not. I lost 20 pounds between Dec. and February; 12 pounds in the two months before that. I definitely didn't mention my weight on the date- I thought I looked hot. He decided I lacked confidence based on my posture, according to him, my weight was "the elephant in the room." He has "deep issues with fat chicks" and said he would try to work on it. He probably won't be speaking to me after he reads this...
Heidi: Thanks! It's great to be able to pole dance again!
Ace and Hat: You are wise. Will try to keep that in mind.
Janet: I can fix you up with him if you really want a report card-- I'm sure he would be happy to give you one, lol
I guess I got my answer-- it's OK to offer constructive criticism IF someone asks for it, otherwise keep your opinion and judgments to yourself-- does that sum it up? | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 5:24:55 PM | | And he thinks he`s mister wonderful or what??What an Idiot!! | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 7:02:29 PM | Pretty frickin' presumptuous of him to think his opinion of you would matter.
Smells of ego.... big, fat, stinkin' ego..... peee yuuuuu~
"I'm going to give you my opinion of you and you will benefit from my words of wisdom".
Choke, puke, gag, wheeze....... 
OP, next time a man gives you a list, hand it right back to him and tell him if you want his
opinion, you'll ask for it. Seriously, I wonder about your self esteem.... Oh sorry, you
didn't ask.... | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 8:13:12 PM | No one can MAKE you feel anything, you got upset because you have your own personal issue with the things he said.
I am always curious at how people perceive me. I try to understand this new and objective perspective and say, hmmm, wow, is that how I am being perceived and take it totally constructively.
Sometime people totally misinterpret me, which I find very interesting. Sometimes people think I am funny when I am being serious, or I say something they relate to as humorous and laugh. I find I am fascinated by how two strangers relate to each other. Here you are meeting a person for the first time with no preconceived opinion unless you have misrepresented yourself in your profile or have said things that are just not true or overdone. Well in that case, it is good to get a reality check from an objective observer because if you continue to misrepresent yourself or over speculate on your opinion of yourself and don't ground it on how others really perceive you then you will continue to do yourself an injustice, potentially, of course. Of course, if you don't care what others think of you, then why care what they say about you. I think you have an issue or several self-esteem problems. Somebody can say you're an idiot and call you all kinds of things, so what? Why take it personally and react emotionally? Why are you reacting at all to this? That is the real question. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2008 8:58:33 PM | kdwildflowers wrote:
After our first date, someone sent me what he thought was some constructive criticism, a list of areas in which he felt I was lacking.
He asked me for the same.
He thinks that everyone wants, or should want, feedback so that he or she can improve.
I think it is hurtful and judgmental to give a person a list of things you don't like about him or her. I wonder what everyone else thinks.
I don't altogether disagree with this, but only question the timing and the
receptiveness of the person who's being critiqued (for lack of better way
of describing it).
With regards to timing, it's really pushing the envelope of hope to be making
even "constructive criticisms" of someone after a first date and then expecting
their might be a second date (let alone an more).
And isn't it true that what any of us wants more than critique is a sense of
acceptance?
And isn't it good to have first established a good underlying bond with a
person before ever even getting into the area of constructively
criticizing each other?
And likewise good that that bond be one where each thinks of the other
as a source of pleasure rather than at all right off the bat associating
this other person with a sense of work or the effort having to change?
There is perhaps a time in relationships for couples to make gentle critique
of each other. But let there be the foundation of pleasure and bonding
so a strong relationship first exists.
After all, who wants to go into any date thinking they're going to be figuratively
under a microscope analyzed and then afterwards given a report on how they
did? To do this is not the enjoyment of dating, but something more akin to the
anxiety of going in to do some educational or work related exam.
Yes, there's a time for self learning. But first let the relationship at least get
some good wind in its sail by having dating be a time of enjoyment and fun.
Apolinary | |
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