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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/18/2008 6:06:46 PM | gotta say wow , hmm no wonder the yank are so cuddly with isreal they are damned near subdivision or one of its ghettos
funny how so many people with control in the united states are all jewish. why then isnt the president a jew as well?
oh wait, not many jews want to be puppets, they leave that to old money beaurocrats who are to caught up with the postion of presidency to realize they are just a figure head
maybe there is something to the rumors hat have been going around for so long. with bushes move into the middle east and setting up military camps and bases there now , isreal will certainly be poised to eliminate the iranians and palestians and enact their " final solution"
anyone still wonder why the middle easterners have such an issue with an enemy in their midst so to speak?
i guess if someone is looking for a conspiracy , all the proof they need is right on the table right in front of them,
are there any iraquis or iranians serving in high positions in the united states? how bout afghanis?
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advocating the necessity for a Pearl-Harbor-like incident to mobilize the country into war with its enemies, mostly Middle Eastern Muslim nations
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hmm sounds alot like the 9/11 thing to me
do you americans actually vote to get these people elected to these positions? i mean they are all criminals and spies and just plain evil people by their history.
damn
no wonder this world is where it is with people like his in areasof power
maybe someone should specify exactly what democracy is supposed to mean to me because if noone is voting for these people , how are they elected?
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/18/2008 7:59:10 PM |
No actually they are all Dual citizens
No they are not.
This is conspiracy journalism that loosely cherry picks facts and puts them together as if there were some grand scheme. Just like those silly movies such as Loosechange and Zeitgeist.
Under Israeli law, a child born to an Israeli citizen, including children born outside of Israel as first generation out of Israel, is considered an Israeli citizen. The child remains an Israeli national until he or she formally renounces their Israeli nationality.
Chertoff was born on November 28, 1953 in Elizabeth, New Jersey, to the New York-born Rabbi Gershon Baruch Chertoff and Livia Eisen, the first hostess for El Al, Israel's state-owned airlines, founded in 1948.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=66175
The only qualifier that "entitles" Chertoff to Israeli citizenship (which he has never taken)under Israeli law is the fact that his mother (a Jewess) lived in Israel briefly. He is not, nor has he ever been an Israeli citizen. Israeli law does not apply in the U.S.A.
Some on that list perhaps have Israeli citizenship (I'm not going to go down the list one by one), but I'd guarantee you that the vast majority do not nor have ever had Israeli citizenship. They may be considered Israelis under Israeli law because of family connections, but they are not Israelis under American law.
Besides, anyone who argues that Israel is not a legitimate country would surely have to concede that their laws aren't legitimate either, therefore making the whole point moot. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/18/2008 8:10:16 PM | umm legally or not dual citizen or non dual citizen the facts remain that a good portion of the people running the show in the united states are jewish, if u see a comspiracy there then thats your personal issue and well if other people do as well then that is theirs to do as well.
ever hear the saying" perhaps you protest too much?
even an outsider can see the writing on the wall here so whats the point in denial?
you can read the last names and its pretty apparent to which culture they are a part of
just like if there were a bunch of ukranians in places of power in a non ukranian country people would start to think that "hey maybe those evil ukranians are trying to influence our countries path"
israeli citizenship isnt worth the paper its written on to be honest since noone in the middle east (or those directly affected by the occupiers) sees them as anything but hobos and squatters , there to reclaim a history and a culture they arent even a poor ghost of in comparison the true isrealite people mentioned in the bible
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No they are not.
This is conspiracy journalism that loosely cherry picks facts and puts them together as if there were some grand scheme. Just like those silly movies such as Loosechange and Zeitgeist
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the last resort of the pathetic is to deny something based on conspiracy theory. everything is based on conspiracy theory, some of the best conspiracys even
cherry picking facts etc
hey if they werent facts......................... then they couldnt cherry pick them could they?????????????? | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/18/2008 8:10:46 PM | No they are not.
Yes they are. why do you defend this reality? that's the real question ? you are too adamant in debating this simple reality. it's scary when you look at how the US government is vehemently defending Israel. Are you aware that Israel is holding the United states' nukes while they decide when to throw them at Iran ? | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/18/2008 8:34:42 PM |
cherry picking facts etc
hey if they werent facts......................... then they couldnt cherry pick them could they??????????????
O.k. Here's some fact's that I will cherrypick. They are all facts. See if the conclusion is accurate.
You are wearing orange and blue in your picture.
Orange and blue are two of the colours prominently displayed on the gay pride rainbow flag.
You must, therefore, be gay.
All facts, right???????????????????? Do the facts support the conclusion? That's how cherrypicking works.
umm legally or not dual citizen or non dual citizen the facts remain that a good portion of the people running the show in the united states are jewish
Yes, and a far greater number are Catholic. Does that mean that I should worry about the Vatican's influence over the U.S.A.?
ever hear the saying" perhaps you protest too much?
No, although I've heard " the lady doth protest too much methinks". It's from Hamlet.
even an outsider can see the writing on the wall here so whats the point in denial?
Sorry, I can't see the writing on the wall. Are you trying to say that Jews are less capable of patriotism than followers of other faiths? Is that the point you're attempting to make, that Jews lack a certain quality that other people possess?
just like if there were a bunch of ukranians in places of power in a non ukranian country people would start to think that "hey maybe those evil ukranians are trying to influence our countries path"
Oh, so Jews are evil?
israeli citizenship isnt worth the paper its written on to be honest since noone in the middle east (or those directly affected by the occupiers) sees them as anything but hobos and squatters , there to reclaim a history and a culture they arent even a poor ghost of in comparison the true isrealite people mentioned in the bible
The creation of Israel has less to do with the bible and more to do with U.N. resolution 181. I doubt many see them as hobos and squatters, but you may do so if it pleases you. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/18/2008 9:43:15 PM | Questioning Israel = antisemitism?
No, but questioning the umbilicord between Israel and America = Unpatriotic. Afterall, we are being force fed this country's allegiance to Israel by our government and politcal candidates on a daily basis.
Ya know, I'm not going to voice my opinion on this subject anymore because I DO live in this wonderful country of Israel .. I mean, America, afterall.
Sorry, the umbilical cord between the two makes them hard to distinguish anymore. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 4:47:24 AM | The creation of Israel has less to do with the bible and more to do with U.N. resolution 181
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highly unlikely , if that was so then the jews would have been placed somewhere in the united states after ww 2 instead of amidst the muslimsand the middle east, where i might say , people were displaced and land was usurped. the un was formed to be a peace maker , obviously they arent anywhere nearly qualified for that position if it was their concept to introduce the jews to the midle east, where they are even more hated then they were in germany during hitlers reign as chancellor. isreal has everything to do with old testament and nothing to do with any "government policy. the only reason they opted for isreal was because it was a "biblical homeland"
was never a concern for the people already occupying those lands as they were just palestinians anyways and no true threat to anyone , i mean cmon,in any other place on earth if this type of invasion and 60 yr occupation occurred , the world would be screaming out for justice, and then the occupiers want to be recognized now as a state? whats up with that lol you invade and occupy, then you want to make it all fine legal and dandy , without paying a dime for the land you stole and expect the last occupants to just bend over and take it? you wouldnt accept that type of treatment if someone stole your families land. how bout if they moved onto land your great grandfather owned and left as a family heritage spot , kickd you off and then after 50 yrs they asked you to just sign over the deed to them and be friends
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You are wearing orange and blue in your picture.
Orange and blue are two of the colours prominently displayed on the gay pride rainbow flag.
You must, therefore, be gay.
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umm actually im wearing predominantly brown and an orange shirt and a dark blue hardhat
accurately by the hardhat ya could assume im in construction or a trade
i think you really are just trying to provoke me with the gay thing lol too funny , try again
get the colors right tho
it is interesting how u are aware of the colors on a gay flag
are u gay perchance?
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Yes, and a far greater number are Catholic. Does that mean that I should worry about the Vatican's influence over the U.S.A.?
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maybe you should be worried about the catholic/christian influence in government
hmm are jews a religion then and not a culture?
ive heard of judaism as a religion, are u claiming jew is a religion now?
interesting
personally id be worried whenever religion takes control of government regardless of the religion
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Are you trying to say that Jews are less capable of patriotism than followers of other faiths?
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actually im saying the jews that have been notarized in the past thread are highly questionable and have criminal pasts, so ergo, yes these certain jewish people have no place guiding the future of a country that apparently offers a rhetoric of bs claims to liberty and justice. patriotism is just another term for blind obedience and it is the word most dictators like to use to make the people follow them without complaint
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Oh, so Jews are evil?
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hmm why do u think jews are evil? i didnt say all jews were evil
i do however think murderers and homicidal maniacs , are evil , let the sentence fit the crime, the criminals listed on the other post are pretty well exposed id have to say , and thats just the stuff that is known as to what theyve done, can u deny any of the data he posted? if so that would be interesting to see as well
funny how you can defend a bunch of criminals, yet you,d turn in a complete stranger for breaking into your car to steal your stereo | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 5:37:03 AM | If you feel that strongly about Dan edens rantimgs..Di dhe ever once mention that in our country it is not illegal to have duel citizenship,,Israel allows it .. Wht dan state why they allowit,,Why does the press here and abroud do not show or report the multiple attacks in Israel tha occur everyday,,If the feeling is that thes individuals
are impartial to Us affairs and interest , You should not only address the dual citizen ship concern but we should make ILLEGHAL company sfrom out side the US owning any oress or tv and radio interest in thi scountry,,It has proven that these entitys have wauy ore influence on the political and social bearing of US policy then the individuals who actually hold office | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 34 | |
| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 8:20:36 AM | The dual citizenship thing I think personally is a non-issue. For me at least. I myself have dual citizenship, as does my dad (who was born in Italy) -- mine is Italy as well, obviously..... So (technically) we can (although we don't) vote there, and we don't need a passport to travel from there into other EU countries, basically, if or when either of us go there. Does it affect my loyalty to here? It does not. I live here, and have my whole life. I don't vote in their elections because I only sketchily follow their politics over there and I don't feel I have the right to make what would amount to an uninformed overseas vote. They've got to live with it. Although some of my relatives who are dual have voted........mostly for Berlusconi and the Forza Italia....  (I wouldn't have... but, whatever....off topic).
I have heard before that anyone born to a Jewish mother is given automatic Israeli citizenship , so , technically I guess anyone Jewish (even if he or she is totally non religious -- as is many times the case) can be or is a dual citizen. But I don't worry about the loyalty aspect of it. Sure they may have a special place, so to speak, in their hearts for Israel (as I admittedly do for Italy) , but I think that's understandable. I don't believe it means they're "more" concerned for Israel than they are for here.
I do however question if at least a part of the real motivation behind some of the superhawk neo-cons who happened to be Jewish , who helped lead the US gov't into the Iraq invasion, may have been Israeli security. I mean it had to be. Just like some of them who are now trying to push for Iran to be "next". But then there are a lot of Christian-Zionists (Gentile through and through) who are also beating war drums against Iran on behalf of Israel --- although that's mainly for their own sick purpose of hoping that the world ends , basically, and they are then "raptured"... They in particular can go to  as far as I'm concerned.  | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 9:05:14 AM | | Barry Goldwater was a former Presidential candidate and a US Senator for many years. In his last televised interview, he actually ranted over how the Jews have enormous control over the political system here in the USA. He said that Jews amounted to less than 1% of the US population but they have a total lock on deciding virtually every piece of major legislation. He said that anyone in the political arena that ever considered not voting for pro Israeli legislation would instantly doom their career. He said that the Jews manipulated public opinion because they control all of the major print and broadcast media and Hollywood movies. The reporters looked stunned and were speechless. He was never granted another interview after this one and died a few years later. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 10:10:24 AM | So many of these posts are silly.
JEWS are taking over the WoRLD!!! Help us..Jews run the US! Israel is a puppet state.
The only true middle eastern state is an Islamic state! Bad Jews! Nasty Jews!
Listen to yourselves. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 5:00:53 PM | hmm id say ^^^listen to you go.
noonehere is going on a rant like you and your ridiculous rhetoric
its a completely peaceful talk and based on facts and daily available news
i dont recall anyone saying the jews were taking over any world except for you
maybe you keep your ridiculous bigotted comments to yourself
isreal isnt a puppet state the united states are the puppet states
some people cant face facts and just accept the fact that their country is owned 80% by foreigners and it is operated as well from a foreign land
your votes and presidents are merely tools to enable the further corrosion of the country that used to be the usa.
cant you even see that people laugh about how impotent the presidents are? how they are bullied and manipulated by the aides and advisors to do as they are paid off to do .
maybe try listening to something other than the routine live in denial propaganda | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/19/2008 10:10:07 PM | its a completely peaceful talk and based on facts and daily available news
i dont recall anyone saying the jews were taking over any world except for you
BS! Its jew bashing. Plain and simple. Go buy a swastika and gimme a few Zeig Heils!
And for the record..I am not Jewish,,but I dont do racism. This is a racist thread. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/20/2008 8:15:19 AM | BS! Its jew bashing. Plain and simple. Go buy a swastika and gimme a few Zeig Heils!
Love your reasoning here Peacethx, Israel can actually enact SS style collective punishments on the Palestinians and engage in Nazi style tactics in the occupied territories, and individual American Jews with divided loyalties can act to subvert American interests to benefit Israeli security interests ... all verifiable and clear ACTIONs, yet those who use mere words to illustrate the cognitive dissonance between these Israeli and Jewish actions and our purported American values, are the ones who are most worthy of your condemnation as Nazis.
Sorry. I don't buy it.
But to extend the analogy, in this case, YOU would be the Good German, blinded by your own unexamined prejudices and misplaced and immoral sympathies. Someday, if Israel does not soon change its ways, the Star of David will carry the exact same connotation as swasticas and the rebel flag, a symbol of unrepentant cruelty and racism.
darjeeling | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/20/2008 12:45:58 PM |
its a completely peaceful talk and based on facts and daily available news
i dont recall anyone saying the jews were taking over any world except for you
BS! Its jew bashing. Plain and simple. Go buy a swastika and gimme a few Zeig Heils!
And for the record..I am not Jewish,,but I dont do racism. This is a racist thread.
You need to look up the definition of "racism" & "racist". You will find, oddly enough, that it refers to a persons race. Jewish is a "religion", Israeli is a "nationality".
There are black jews, white jews, arab jews & even asian jews.
"Arab" however, is a race....& the original Jewish people were in fact, Arabs.
Go back to school & start over ...
& on a related note:
Anyone of the jewish faith is welcome to settle in Israel....unless they happen to be a black, African jew....especially not the ones from Ethiopia etc. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 45 | |
| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/20/2008 2:19:03 PM | QUOTE: ....& the original Jewish people were in fact, Arabs.
^^Were they though?? I thought the ancient Hebrews , a Semitic people (the same as Arabs in that respect -- but that's only a linguistic designation), were a different "ethnicity" from Arabs certainly. There were Arabs at that time, no doubt; pagan nomads, more or less, in the vast sands of what is today called Saudi Arabia. But the thing is the Arabs themselves don't really seem to make much real history until about the 7th century CE (or AD if you will) -- with Muhammad and the rise, and subsequent explosion (no pun intended) out of the Arabian Peninsula, of Islam.
I think the ancient Hebrews , though possibly a conglomeration of Semitic peoples from very early on (allied tribes, for instance, all uniting in monotheism if little else), were probably largely a separate people from Arabs. Similar yes, but not the same. After all at that time there were many Semitic peoples; ancient Egyptians, Sumerians, Edomites, etc. There may have, I'm sure there probably were, Arabs amongst them at times, and probably Arab converts to what would become Judaism, in the millenia prior to Islam for instance, but I don't think the original Jewish people, so to speak, were in fact Arabs. Do you have any other sort of info on that ?? Because I'd like to learn more about it, if you'd found it from a particular source . | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/20/2008 3:41:39 PM | It's not a racist thread. It's just a thread with a lot of racists posting in it''
Thats my point. And I dont think its ill intentioned. Its systemic racism, the kind we d0nt see cause we get so close to it..i am not holding high moral ground here, I am guilty of the same thing and I always work to correct it.
Just do me a favor. Substitute the word Black, Gay, Disabled or Native American for the word "Jew" every time its been used here. Now see how it sounds.
The list of Jews in prominent places in the US government was particularly distasteful and is what triggered my comments.
At the end of the day, there are no such things as Jews, Arabs, Christians, Lithuanians or Americans. We just give ourselves those labels. They assign a national heritage and identity, but its more for sorting out which place we legally belong to. Beyond that, its all just people. People with labels labelling other people.
So lets not look to Israel for our woes. Lets look at the human condition. What leads us all, collectively, to participate in the notion of statehood. Not every nation deserves or needs a state. This is what is at stake here, its a challenge to ignore the boundaries of statehood and create a world family. Which is what we are, in biological and in spiritual terms. Words like Jew, Arab, Muslim, they divide us, they make us think , erringly, that there is a true division of property according to some divine plan.
So it doesnt matter where we live, as long as we take care of each other. Let Israel be, let the Palestinians live where they wish, and yes, thats the thorny right of return. Let people live where they wish and get to know each other again. Israel has to give, agreed. So do the rest of us, who seem to put the isssue of statehood ahead of our notions of humanity.
Unlearn...
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/20/2008 10:45:04 PM | You're preaching to the choir on this one (at least as far as I'm concerned)
I'm a Jew. Threads like this come up all the time. The arguments are always circular and nobody recognizes the obvious impasses in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
You point out that it was Jewish land until they got expelled and the other side points out that it was Palestinian land until the British took control and let the Jews have it back. Some people say they're both the same people who believe in different religions while others argue that they're different people and (pick a side) has no more right to the land than the other.
This stuff gets really tiresome.
Some schmuck always comes along and says that the US government is actually under the control of some conniving cabal of Jews. Never "Israelis" of course, but simply Jews. If they ever had to admit that the Jews they refer to aren't Israeli they might also have to admit that they made a rather racist judgement in the first place. That rarely happens around here.
The dumbest thing about threads like this one though is the fact that whatever can be said about one side can usually be said about the other side. Ergo, it's pretty much impossible to claim any moral high ground on this matter. Most of the "solutions" people come up with involve finishing off what Hitler started (whether the idiots who actually support the ideas realize this or not) or allowing the Palestinians to continue suffereing under the yoke of defacto Israeli quarantine. Whatever solution will finally come to fruition won't be the result of any internet bloggers or any reflection on political rhetoric. It'll come from Israelis and Palestinians alone.
The Jews are definitely not going to render themselves miliatarily indefensible. Between the Holocaust, centuries of European persecution, and the more recent wars with their Arab neighbours, the place a very high value on national defense.
The Palestinians of course aren't about to stop fighting for a better life than the miserable one imposed on them by the Israelis and as a result of decisions made by their own leaders decades ago. Should Israel simply just quit Palestinian areas ? Of course...in a perfect world it's the only right thing to do. Should the Palestinians stop lobbing mortars and firing rockets into Israel ? Of course. And in a perfect world they wouldn't feel the need to do this in the first place.
Naming Jews in positions of power around the world or blaming Palestinians for their own plight is purely verbal masturbation. Sure it's fun but it doesn't get you any lasting results. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/21/2008 4:34:53 AM | blaming Palestinians for their own plight
hmm just curious how exactly you figure the palestinians are responsible for the usurption of isreal? they didnt sellit, they didnt give it away, they werent even asked. it was stolen from them and given to another group.
theywerent even paid a dime for their own homes.
no isreali would accept that kind of treatment
if someone said :" hey the world community is going to take half of your land and give it to this displaced people who claim persecution
it just wouldnt happen
they werent naming jews in power around the world., just the united states
the reson the palestinains are lobbing mortars as you call it is , because they want their land and homes back and the occupiers wont leave
would u act differently?
personally i have nothing to win or lose in this as im neither arab or a jew so i could care less, but the fighting there has to stop someday and obviously the occupiers are the ones at fault in this scenario.
just like the americans have to get out of iraq, since they are occupiers not residents .
isreal should be paying taxxes to the palestinian government and the lands they stole should go back to original owners . who could opt to sell it or rent it or move back to it. | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/21/2008 11:08:53 AM | ^Okay, just read your history.
During the Israeli war of independance, (that was the one where every nation bordering Israel attacked it within 24 hours of its coming into existence) the Palestian "leadership" told its followers to get out of the way of the invading Arab armies. They actually got up and moved so that the invading armies could wipe Israel out. Ooops ! Israel won the war. Obviously the Israelis weren't about to just let bygones be bygones at that point.
Prior to that, actually yeah, the Jews did buy the land. Unfortunately, since the Arab neighbours of Israel weren't going to allow the "two-state solution" to exist, the Israelis were forced to gobble up enough land to make the nation militarily defensible. Since the Palestinians had already moved off their land 'temporarily' to allow for the extermination of Israel, it was pretty easy to just say "You want back in ?! Forget it !" And thus began the long miserable journey of homeless Palestinians.
Now that I think about it, what are you doing where you are when you should be back in Europe ? What , you don't think it applies to you that your ancestors stole two entire continents ? (actually, I suppose it's three and portions of others) If you put any of your money where your mouth is you'd be on the first plane back to some European nation. More importantly, since Israel was stolen from the Jews to begin with, they actually have a better reason to live there and defend it than you have for living where you are. Your nation is "illegal" more so than any Jewish one will ever be.
And whatever you do, don't allow any Native Americans to reach any position of power whatsoever. If that happens they might take over the government and use it for their own nefarious ends just like those nasty , evil Jews did with the US.  | |
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| Questionning Israel = antisemitism?
Posted: 5/21/2008 12:41:02 PM | No-one I know has any problem with criticising the very questionable policies of a particular country. However, when reason goes out the window, and when people talk about other states in extreme forms as though they are willing to act on this against people who live in their country but have some affiliation to that state, we start to feel as though we are listening to a member of Westboro. Given the amount of violence, discrimination, and killings that have gone on against Jews over so many years, even in countries like the USA, it is not unreasonable to worry about the denial of rights.
Remember that many Jews fought for the rights of African-Americans in the 1960s, because they believed that if Americans would no longer to allowed to discriminate against anyone, including African-Americans, then Jews would be treated decently as well.
Many Jews still feel that tolerance has still not triumphed over bigotry, and that bigotry is alive and well in Europe and in North America.
For instance, Jews have placed a higher value on education that almost anything else in their lives, including above their own religion and culture. In addition, Jews have tried to attain a good place in many countries in order to become so valuable that they will be accepted and that they will no longer be subject to the cruelties that have been put upon them for so long. In addition, many Jews come from families who were dirt poor, even in the United States, and have a fear of returning to starvation, and so that fear drives them to attain important and wealthy positions. Jews have excelled in many areas for all these reasons and more.
However, there is nothing stopping Americans from taking these positions, provided they are equally good candidates. The problem is that Americans don't have the same unbelievably horrible history, and so don't have the same drive and ambition to keep that history from repeating itself.
However, I would have no truck with a Native American arguing about Israel. After all, they own the USA. It's theirs and was stolen from them. Would anyone be wrong about suggesting they become suicide bombers? | |
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