|
|
|
|
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 12:35:06 PM | | Anything that is difficult to acquire requires skill. If a woman is trying to capture my heart, she will have to bring lots of "gamesmanship", yes, OP, of course dating is a game. It is not frivolous as these other posters seem to think it is. Notice none of them chose wisely. They are all back looking. Since I have never married, I am still in the hunt. I have yet to find a worthy adversary and it will take someone extraordinary to win my heart. Not just beauty or brains or personality or style, it takes gamesmanship, that's why they call it courtship. One has to successfully court someone to win them over. If the person has much higher standards, then it takes a much higher level of gaming to win them over. Most people on POF have no clue on how to play the game and it goes right over their head. Most think that once they are married and settle down that the game is over. They stop putting in the effort to keep the relationship going forever. The game never ends, either you want to continue playing or you don't understand the rules or even realize there is a game going on. Life is a game, an ever changing game, a complex game and it is not just yourself in it but everyone that runs across your path. Either you're good at it or you are bad at it or just mediocre. It's all based on your awareness and it seems, OP, your awareness is developing while many of the posters here are clueless. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:14:00 PM | Glad we are on the same page, farm boy... a Spanish Mormon, huh? Are you good at singing serenades? You do that, and I may appear on the balcony with a thermometer in my mouth... Why don't you enlighten us then about what you know about the game. Are you good at playing it yourself, or just receptive when women do?
Your comment about the posters' background is... pot vs. kettle... don't you think so? Of course you can keep your chin up and say you are alone because you have not found a worthy partner.. who has? | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:14:08 PM | | Interesting thread about the puller. Well, I am sure we have all pulled.... as well, as have been pulled by someone. The times I have pulled were times that I was thankful for finding someone. I was lonely and appreciated a guy that I "really wasn't that into"... I mean, I really loved things about him, but realized that there were other things that would make me nauseaus in a long-term relationship. So, I settled, and enjoyed dating, but when it came to him getting closer to me... well, I pulled out. I still call him and invite him to events with my church, like potlucks, BBQ's and parties, playing volleyball at parties. He seems to be the closest male friend that I have, and also seems to be happy to go places with me, still. I am still dating, and so many guys "pull out" from me. This is not "a game". I think this is just the way it is. You have to be with someone, but it seems that "early on" both people will know if there is chemistry on both sides. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:25:13 PM |
I think that, in today's world (as opposed to mediaval Spain for example), i-love-you is possessive... it's not merely "w0w, you are a very lovable individual, have a nice day". It's more like "I have to own you now, your time, your interest, your aspirations, I have to be right in the middle of everything, and I don't care how you feel about it, I can't hold it to wait for you to catch up, you have to do it for me, least I get terribly hurt". Is not it?
I don't agree with this. Love is never ownership. Actually, love is a gift that you give. Despite whether the person accepts or appreciates it, doesn't stop one from giving it.
I think when someone says the L-word with the intention of manipulating or possessing the object of their affection, it's NOT love. It's a **stardization that devalues the real meaning of the word.
Conversely, if a person interprets the L-word as a claim of ownernship, then I would surmise that person has some difficultly --perhaps from previous relationships-- with being loved. Maybe there's some baggage there that hasn't been dealt with. Either way, love never denotes ownership of a person, their dreams or their interests. That's ridiculous to think that because someone says they love you, now they own you. No wonder why relationships aren't working. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:33:28 PM | Love as a gift... yes, this is how it's supposed to be in the ideal world... we are in the real world here. I just think, when someone tells you, two weeks after meeting you, that they love you... having completely ignored your signals... just break through to you like a tank... then that's not the giving, selfless love you are describing. That's something else. An unselfish person will surround you with warmth and wait for you to come to them at your own speed, if at all. Easy to say, I know! I've never claimed to be unselfish. But I've been involved with someone who is, and what a great experience it was.
| |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 2:50:35 PM | | Exactly my point, you are not quite unselfish but your awareness is at least getting to the point where you have some understanding of yourself, taking that next step is part of the challenge you face. A game requires two players well suited to each other's abilities, if as you say, you are in a one-sided relationship, eventually you will be outmatched and the relationship will not last, the game will not last for the longer term. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 3:35:53 PM | abc, This reads like you're deeply into the dating game ...and over-analyzing those moves you that rushed into taking, but not taking further till you learn how you are w/ someone else. You are ISO the perfect prize among all the Cracker Jacks that you've open before, and keep expecting different results when you do the same thing over and over and over again in a vicious cycle that has you writing.
In other words, you're only fooling yourself ...as so many of us do for living to regret love rather than live to love and just let it be. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 4:38:42 PM | I think everyone plays a game when it comes to relationships.
How many times do you not say something because you don't want to look too eager or too needy?
How many times have you not called someone or didn't chase after them after a fight (or, have walked away hoping that the other would follow you and apologize?)
How many of you have cried just so the other person would give in to what you want?
Everyone plays games while in a relationship... sad but true. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 5:01:30 PM | abc6587 - you are a hero, I read these posts until I am cross eyed, and you said in a very articulate fashion that getting to know people is a very tricky business, and you use the word (gasp) "GAMES"!!!!! Oh my God, oh my god don't say games, for heaven's sake we are all adults now and don't play games......etc.
"Courtship" is a bit of a game, you show some cards, your date shows some cards, you start to show more cards as you get to know each other....
In the simplest of terms, homo sapiens are very complex creatures...
And by the way, Pepper Ridge Farm, would it be too much to ask you to move to California and marry me? Your response is superb | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 5:10:04 PM |
Either they pull off, or you do. Yes, that is what happens. If you don't oblige, he will take care of it when he gets home.
This thread sounds like being dazed and confused by your own mind. What about if you just go out on a date, have a good time, and forgo the whole business about being overwhelmed and confused? | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 5:44:54 PM | | It seems most people here are having trouble understanding the thread, I thought it was fairly straight forward and responded in kind. While some here might think me as somewhat rational and level headed, I hate to disappoint my new groupies, but I have a much more wild and kinky side than you might not stomach very well. But, of course, that is part of the way I play in general... | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:12:37 PM | Yup... and there is more to it... according to my own unscientific theory, it's our interactions with others that define who we are, early in life... those interactions occurring primarily through... guess what... games. I'll further speculate that an individual who's spent his entire life in solitary confinement, if he surives and is not retarded, which is a big if, will have no idea who he is, no identity, and thus "being himself" will be a meaningless phrase for him.You try being uptight... laid back... honest... manipulative... happy... sad.. selfish... giving .. playful... aggressive... meek... and see what sticks and what suits you. Heck, I am in my upper 30s and am learning like crazy, discovering the parts of myself I did not know existed. How? By trying new things on, stepping away from the usual (vicious?) cycles and seeing what happens. You can't even discover yourself, let alone be yourself, without games. That's my game theory, in a nutshell.
| |
|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:29:25 PM | | Don't be afraid of me, I am pretty harmless and am friends with all my exes. Be afraid of people who are so deceitful with themselves they don't even notice when they deceit others. Or those who are filled with anger over others playing games, and learn to play even meaner games to get the upper hand. Or those who just do it without any reflection whatsoever. Farm boy has made a suggestion that most people here don't understand the point, I think he is right. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:54:56 PM | | I have thought of the same thing over time. Either way it ends up being some sort of game. I think it only becomes bad if you are deceiving. If you would not want something done to you that you are doing, then you are being deceiving. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:59:29 PM | he point I am making, this whole courtship dance is ladden with games. No way around it. Sometimes, when dating a very sophisticated individual whose integrity and consientousness I trust, I make a conscious effort of stopping the games... it just ruins the fun and feels awkards afterwards. I am beginning to think this game of love is healthy. Maybe we should just stop complaining and blaming each other and get a grip of it. Kind of like a flamingo dance ritual.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are in ways totally correct OP. There are many many relationship experts, psychologists, and books about "The games people play". I think only crude animals with no brain don't play any games. Could you imagine if "you just be yourself" on a first date? Go ahead, let the other person know about failed relationships, bad habits, cuss words, past problems, weird habits, legal problems, too many cats, your kinkiests fantasies....Or, on the other extreme, be totally up tight and don't reveal anything about your likes or dislikes to the new person. How would they know what to expect then?
Remember, even "getting dressed up" is a game, like putting on a uniform. Same for guys, you do not want to show up in crappy car wearing dirty clothes....she will figure all that out later. Likewise, ladies and gentlemen, if you get the hots on a first date, and start texting or calling 5 times a day you will scare off even an interested mate....
So, the game is...don't act desperate...and don't act too picky. The rules are in there
somewhere.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(((. Be afraid of people who are so deceitful with themselves they don't even notice when they deceit others. Or those who are filled with anger over others playing games)))
Precisely, like the "really nice boyfriend" who is in prison, who we shouldn't judge the guy or the girl. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:00:17 PM | Oh, I understood your point(s) abc - I don't think you understand who I am.  
You're the one who got scared of me (just browse your post history). 
You make some valid arguments, and I concur with your unscientific theory...
I'll further speculate that an individual who's spent his entire life in solitary confinement, if he surives and is not retarded, which is a big if, will have no idea who he is, no identity, and thus "being himself" will be a meaningless phrase for him. Precisely - people find themselves in others, and love is the epitome of this.
Essentially, those who "socially" interact more, increase their chances of others finding themselves in them, and most women reject guys from the other side of the spectrum, accusing them of "not being themselves", when in fact, they're just lonely, and lonely guys need love too (to "flourish" their personality through affection/interaction).
Life's a catch 22, and even after catching 23, I'm still behind. 
If a man and woman spent their entire lives together, from birth, segregated from society, they would be perfectly happy, and would have created methods of communicating and understanding each other (which is more than I can say for many brutish "civilized" relationships throughout modern society). Everything is relative. Without having another to relate to (or compare to), who are you?
I'm actually NOT afraid of those you mention in your last post, and I give them my love, pity and compassion, and then I get squashed.  There aren't enough like me in the world, that's for sure.
- Excog. | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:34:21 PM | To me this is a fascinating discussion. I'm totally new to games, even as a concept, let alone a habit (or "art form", if you want to elevate things to Farm Boy's level).
In retrospective, I realize that in my brief foray into the dating world, I have been 100% honest, i.e., not a game player at all (I just joined the site and see how I gave my roses right away without thinking about the implications). I have instinctively, and unconsciously, sided with packagedealx3 and *LoisLane* in this debate, and not surprisingly, have very little to show for it. The "natural" and "honest" strategy doesn't yield quick results, and I am a perfect example of that. Right now I lean towards staying honest and dumb and hoping that when I finally meet the lady with whom everything clicks then it will be the real thing. I'll let me heart guide me when it comes to relationships with women, and reserve my calculating skills to games in the literal sense (chess, bridge, politics, etc). Having said that, I'm open minded and look forward to more discussion. Hey, maybe I should become a game player one day...in any event, that's not who I am today. | |
|
| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 10:06:23 PM | | Now, let's be clear I am not suggesting games in the sense of games players in that they use artificial games to manipulate women to feel certain ways with less than "honest" intent. I am putting forth that it is a dance, to attract and lure in the partner for a real relationship. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
