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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/10/2009 8:51:01 PM | There is a lot of good discussion on this thread.
I agree with some here that the victims need more immediate and intensive help for safety reasons than the abuser because of an appearance that the abuser is "in control" of the situation, when really he is not in control at all.
Unfortunately, as it has been pointed out, it is in the nature of violence that it is difficult to tell who is being the abuser and who isn't when you aren't in the situation directly. This is because it is also in the nature of any human behavior that is not condoned by society -- to lie about it, and to be covert, and secretive about it. And so, a woman can take advantage of the fact that more men tend to be physically violent and abuse men emotionally and get away with it. And men can take advantage of the fact that women tend to be more verbal than physical and use that to get away with being physically abusive by pointing out a women's primary way of dealing with things as the "reason" (excuse.)
I think that the help that needs to happen has to happen to all of us. The abused, the abuser, the witnesses, the community, the culture. Obviously, focusing on any one group hasn't worked. We can separate the abuser from his victim and he knows he/she can find another one. We can separate the victim from the abuser and the victim isn't safe because there is not ever enough surveillance to completely prevent all repercussions unless everyone gets involved at every level of society. We as a society can separate ourselves from both, by jailing the abuser, putting the abused into "homes" (shelters.) But they are never very far away from us, just out of sight for the moment, until the news comes on.
There is a free newsletter available from this website that deals with abuse from all angles:
http://www.angriesout.com/
Dr. Lynne Namka
This website has a great program that can be implemented in schools to prevent the bullying that often precedes or is a sign of abuse among children:
http://www.thegraycenter.org/
"Gray's Guide to Bullying" by Carol Gray (Spring 2004 Jenison Autism Journal)
Abuse is a sign of a lack of social skills. And so the resources that help children and adults with poor social skills are excellent for this.
But that is assuming that the abusers are not sociopaths. A sociopath doesn't want to "get better" or get fixed, or change. Partly because they can't, because they are missing something essential that nobody yet knows how to fix. For this group, the only hope for society, the abused, and the abuser to not abuse again is confinement in jail or some other institution.
I think that the books by M. Scott Peck, M.D. address the larger question of what we need to do as a society to change so that there are fewer abusive people in this world, and to offer hope for them and for us.
"People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1983).
"A World Waiting to be Born: Civility Rediscovered" (New York: Bantam Books, 1993).
"The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace" (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1987).
Peace is the opposite of violence, and love is the opposite of fear. But to love someone who is fear-based is to often put yourself at risk of being the bogey monster that the paranoid thinks is out there amongst us.
To end violence we can't just endlessly study violence. At some point we need to study what peace is and how to expand it to everyone who needs it.
To end fear, we can't just study and discuss fearful topics. We will have to study how to end the isolation that is the breeding ground for things that hide in secrecy and lies and bring them to the light.
Its good to discuss what happens with violence, but we can only help together as a group. And maybe that is why it exists...it will never go away unless we can all work together to make it so. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 1:37:48 PM | Miss Contemplative,
Re message 149. [One thing I find particularly troubling is the underestimation of women's capacity to abuse men. Sadly, many of their mechanisms go unnoticed and the men suffer silently for shame that they were not "strong enough" to handle her manipulations. You want to talk about sexual abuse? I've seen women use sex as a means of controlling men. I have seen men literally tortured by very diabolical females who are nothing short of predatory in how they emotionally blackmail their victim. I've seen horrible mothers deny a good man his children when the issue was never his. All she needs to do is cry some form of abuse, real of fictitious, and people will question him and absolve her. It's infuriating to watch her at some shelter absolving herself of having thrown that chair at him because "he was going at me again" or many such excuses for acting AS brutally as a male abuser would.
I've seen women use crying as a way to manipulate men into not confronting them about their own abusive tendencies. I've seen women clean out guy's bank accounts, leave him coming home from work with no furniture left (keep in mind the guy has worked many years and contributed to the home and relationship) and all she has to do is cry some lame story that he neglected her or abused her in some way and society coddles her. Meanwhile her male counterpart hurts in silence if he's not fortunate enough to have good friends and family he can rely on to get him through (usually she has isolated him from them too)...BUT, if a man is an adult, it is time for him to put his "big boy" pants on and get the hell out of such relationships. Staying and then using that sob story to get you into and out of every future relationship is inexcusably weak minded of him IMO.
I have many sweet female friends but I have had the displeasure of being raised by one such woman and I can't believe the shit she got away with. Even to this day, no one has held her accountable for the damage she did to our lives, to my father (God rest his soul) and to my siblings. I however, have no intention of enabling it further. ]
one word for you. BRAVO!!!!!!
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 1:51:35 PM | My ex I felt was an emotional abuser.
He constantly put me down, but did it in such a jokey way, but i felt horrible, and when I got upset he would say, it was my own fault, I dont help myself.
He said i looked better with long hair, I should exercise more, I should be more tidy, I should remove all my pubic hair, because thats how it should be. I should not ask for sex, the list is endless.. Ha ha i laugh now, i can't be beleive i stayed in that!
He was addicted to skunk, smoked all day every day, yet if i lit a cigarette he would waft his hands in front of his face telling me cigarettes are horrible. Oh, he smoked them too.
He used to get angry for no reason. ON the road, because of the weather, if i was invading his space in his bedroom, standing too close, he'd just blow up. I'd have to get out of the room, because he would shout at me. He did not see his anger as a problem, he called it passionate?!! WTF?
If I ever lost my temper with him, or had a go at him, usually from one of his jibes, he would not talk to me for a week or more. pfft.
I would cry myself to sleep sometimes, because hed said something so hurtful. But he was tell me it was my own fault, and never consoled me. Yet apparently he told me he loved me? Mmmm...
He was cold, could not show emotion or very much love at all.
Does he fit this catorgary I dont know.. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:01:20 PM | | I dont think he was an abuser really actually, im not sure, it's like he had no clue he was doing anything wrong at all?! he was angry, but physically a gentle man, he wouldnt have hurt me. I think he had insecurity and abandonment issues. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:02:46 PM | | There is some very sinister plot in the works on the fundamental level that most people are not even aware of. There is an elaborate plan to enslave and to control humanity and this is being achieved through us without most people not even being aware of the agendas they are absorbing and passing on. Has anyone else noticed how it is so cool to be "cold-hearted" and "without emotion" these days? Anyone who expresses "remorse" or "conscience" is viewed as being weak while those who exhibit robotic-like qualities are viewed to be superior. That is no accident. You have the internet liberate yourself, the battle is real but all is not hopeless. You can do your part by looking in the mirror and refusing to perpetrate these ideas that dehumanize us and turn us into mean robots. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:06:26 PM |
I dont think he was an abuser really actually, im not sure, it's like he had no clue he was doing anything wrong at all?! he was angry, but physically a gentle man, he wouldnt have hurt me. I think he had insecurity and abandonment issues.
I wish I could just message you with this:
Abuse is about control. He didn't have to hit you to control you, so he didn't. You still walked around on egg shells and had to go to great lengths to avoid his wrath. He also kept you insecure and dependent. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:06:58 PM | I dont know, its a question I try and ask myself, who really does know if someone is over sensitive or is someone is abusive or a mixture of the two? We often aren't our own best judge of charachter.
Yes im am sensitive, truth be told, whether im OTT I'm not sure.? I doubt it.
Im not bitter, we split for a reason. I am an optimistic girl.
:-) | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:09:15 PM | Halftime Dad, thanks for you input.
I do see it, but then i make excuses I suppose for everyone, I see good in everyone, and do excuse people. It's just me I guess.
But I cant reiterate enough, how he REALLY thought he didnt have a problem at all! | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 5:05:30 PM | I do see it, but then i make excuses I suppose for everyone, I see good in everyone, and do excuse people. It's just me I guess.
But I cant reiterate enough, how he REALLY thought he didnt have a problem at all!
When they deny it, it's like they're abusing you a second time.
They take no responsbility for their own actions.
There was some crap in the bible about if you cause someone to sin you are the one headed for hell. My mother would curse and scream a blue streak at me when I was 6 years old, and then quote that stupid crap to me and tell me it was my fault and I was going to hell for it.
So tell me mother - is it hot there?
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 5:44:39 PM | When people grow up, "normal" and "acceptable" are archetyped by that which they are exposed to in their upbringing.
That's not true at all. Violent people just use their past to justify their behavior. I grew up with violence and I find it TOTALLY unacceptable. If a boyfriend even so much as raises his voice at me, he's done, and I would never treat anyone the way I was treated growing up. I believe in the golden rule. | |
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