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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:38:26 AM | So I've been thinking lately about changing up my routine at the gym... I'm already getting pretty bored with the usual free weights and machines. I have been changing my workout roughly every 2 months to avoid plateaus and general boredom but obviously the latter hasn't worked out for me.
I've also been thinking about what my true goals are at the gym, originally I just wanted to put some weight back on since I looked sickly I was so thin (155 lbs @ 6'3 at my worst). This was largely due to my job (I was framing houses at the time, very tough work) and my lack of appetite. Now that I've put some serious thought into it over the last little while I think I have a pretty good idea of what I want (and I'm not just talking about appearances here).
Not to sound vain but I want to have a body like what Bruce Lee had (sounds corny but pound for pound he was one of the strongest men alive in his time, and he was absolutely shredded without an ounce of fat). Not only was he strong but he was insanely agile and could generate ridiculous amounts of power from his small frame (his famous 1 inch punch proves this point quite well). Now I'm not a martial artist nor do I plan on becoming one, but to have the kind of athletic ability and strength that he had would be amazing. And to top it all off, I don't think he ever trained with weights.
So I've been thinking that I'd like to start doing a more "natural" (can't think of a better word) routine by replacing almost all the exercises I've been doing with bodyweight type exercises. So basically only doing things like push-ups, reverse push-ups, dips, pull ups etc etc etc and I was wondering what others thoughts are on this and if anyone has a good routine for these exercises.
I want to boost my endurance like crazy since I've never been able to do many push-ups in a row (topped out at 30 at my best, but would like to do 50+ in a row), and I was wondering what are some good ways to do this. I don't think doing push ups every single day will help as it will lead to over training but does anybody have a good method out there?
Sorry if this was a hard post to follow but I hope you can get the idea and help me out here, thanks! | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:53:27 AM | Body weight exercise are good for endurance. They are no more or less 'natural' than weights.
Trying to do this without bragging, largely because +60 is nothing to brag about, but I do +60 perfect form pushups, at 270lb, and most of my upper body training is low rep heavy weights. By low rep I mean 3x8 is the absolute highest reps I go to for work sets, 3x6 has been the standard when not doing shoulder rehab. The moral is strength training begets muscular endurance as well.
Your goals are haphazard, your planned methedology poor and your Bruce Lee example is a straw man. Try and explain precisely what you want- and I can tell you now that the answer is not body weight exercise. The answer is always proper nutrition and a balanced plan of resistance training and cardio, with weight and reps depending on goals. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 7:07:23 AM | Bruce Lee did train with weights.
I'm also not sure what your goals are. You seem to want explosive power as well as endurance? You're not going to be able to generate the sort of power Bruce Lee could by doing 4 million pushups.
Look to olympic lifting to build a physique built for power (rather than strength), and obviously martial arts training is going to be essential as well since punching and so on is more about technique than power.
Obviously if you want to be small and powerful then the answer lies with your diet, not your routine. Don't go into a calorie excess and you won't gain weight. Simple. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:55:45 AM | Sorry for being so vague with my goals... let me try to explain myself a little better this time (hopefully)
It's really hard for me to put this into words and not random flashes in my head of what I would like to achieve. Anyways to start off with, I think my biggest problem is my diet... since I absolutely refuse to count calories, I do eat healthy 90% of the time and in general don't like many sweets or desserts (but I do like my hot wings and bar food every now and then).
I guess what I'm really looking for help on is a good routine using mostly bodyweight exercises that I can eventually start adding weights to once I get better with them (weighted dips etc..). I think it's impressive as hell when I'm in the gym and I see somebody doing these exercises but with absolute perfect form (watched a guy do a set of 20 flawless pull ups and I was amazed, most people just go through the motions not caring about their form too much, especially with pull-ups and dips etc.). I would definitely like to have more explosive power and endurance and it seems counter-intuitive to me to do low rep/high weight sets to gain endurance (although I'm probably wrong). I don't want to exclude weights completely but I would like this to be a routine I can switch to for a couple months when I get bored of just lifting weights, although it can (and must) include some weighted exercises for things like legs. Also, to do with endurance, I don't want to be able to do an endless amount of push ups, but I've always been embarassed by my lack of ability with them (I used to blame it on being so tall but I know that's just a shitty delusional excuse). Same with my bench press, I always found it really difficult to up my weights on my bench.
Part of my worry right now is that I want to gain about another 15 lbs gross body weight (I'm sitting at 13% body fat right now and would like to drop another 5%) eventually stopping at around 205 lbs with 5% bmi. What I really don't want to do is add % points to my bmi while obtaining those last 15-20 lbs and I don't know of any good way to do this without being a nazi about my diet which I really don't want to do (I'm busy enough as is, I don't need to add calorie counting to my list of daily chores).
I don't know if this is any clearer for you guys to understand but I hope so, if not I'll try again lol | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:16:08 AM | | Yes and no... I would love to if I actually had the time or the money, but since I have neither at the moment (just bought a new car and have too many other activities already outside of work) I'll have to forgo the martial arts for now. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:32:35 PM | If you want to look like Bruce Lee, sign up for a martial arts class! Pretty sure that won't get boring very quickly...
Rock Wall Climbing is also great for something that really can't compare to other activities, also doesn't get boring if you look down...
I'm still personally a big fan of kayaking... sure it's not a huge work out but you can really enjoy your time doing it because you can see so many neat things when you're out on a coast or river. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:31:04 PM |
Part of my worry right now is that I want to gain about another 15 lbs gross body weight (I'm sitting at 13% body fat right now and would like to drop another 5%) eventually stopping at around 205 lbs with 5% bmi. What I really don't want to do is add % points to my bmi while obtaining those last 15-20 lbs
LOL WUT
What on earth are you on about? BMI has nothing to do with what you are talking about... I have no idea what you are trying to do with it. Your goal of getting to 8% body fat without careful monitoring of the diet will never work either.
guess what I'm really looking for help on is a good routine using mostly bodyweight exercises that I can eventually start adding weights to once I get better with them
LOL WUT
Why on earth bother? Body weight exercises have their place, as do weights. Trying to avoid weights because they are not 'natural' is bizzare. You are already fighting an uphill battle against diet and lack of knowledge, why try and make your life even more difficult?
I would definitely like to have more explosive power and endurance and it seems counter-intuitive to me to do low rep/high weight sets to gain endurance Nearly any form of training will improve strength, endurance and power, particularly in beginner/novice levels. The rep range you are talking about is still floating in the strength endurance category, this is benefitted substantially by strength training. There is always crossover, but you get more strength endurance out of strength training then you do strength out of endurance training at these kinds of rep ranges.
Being taller does make pushups harder, all the people I know in the 100 range are short stubby little things. It however does not make them impossible. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/23/2008 5:22:25 PM | CT, I didnt know you were that huge. You must be scary as hell in real life, lol.
OP for the first year or so, just do something. Anything. Doesn't matter what.
Bruce Lee never took an elevator, always parked at the far end of the parking lot, and walked instead of driving where ever he could.
He was a real big advocate of incidental exercise in ordinary life. Take the stairs. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/23/2008 7:47:55 PM |
Being taller does make pushups harder, all the people I know in the 100 range are short stubby little things.
I beg to differ on the short and stubby part. Im 6'4 270lb myself and I generally crank out 100 push-ups with a weight vest as part of my warm up before jiu-jitsu every day.
I agree with you about all the rest though. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/23/2008 8:36:38 PM | Smitty, do you know what 8% bf really looks like?
On someone will not much muscle, it looks like Mary Kate or Ashley Olsen.
On someone with lots of muscle, it's only a few steps away from the stage.
It's also extremely hard to maintain for any length of time, and not necessarily healthy.
You can do some searches on the net, but beware: most folks who "claim" to be in the single-digit range, aren't. Take it with a grain of salt.
If you are trying to gain 15lbs bodyweight, as you mentioned, yes, there will be some fat involved. That's just how it works. And few people get down to single-digit bf% without counting calories and micromanaging their diet, which you say you don't want to do.
I think switching up your routine is a great idea, variety is always good! | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/23/2008 11:04:43 PM |
sure it's not a huge work out but you can really enjoy your time doing it because you can see so many neat things when you're out on a coast or river.
Until you get eaten by a shark or alligator.  I'm actually thinking of buying a kayak, it would be great upper body workout. Unfortunately I only have a fast flowing river (and a dirty one at that) at my disposal, so going upstream might be a little too difficult. Maybe a rowing machine would be better. That way I could alternate between the stair stepper one day and the rowing mahcine the next, so I can give my poor legs a break.
OP: Most martial artists will favour endurance over mass almost always, after all going full out for 2 minutes at a time is almost all endurance.
I have experimented with various techniques or approaches to building muscle and/or endurance. I would suggest reading up on the weider training principles, regardless of your goals.
If you want to be built like a martial artist, you want to stay lean. Nothing looks more rediculous than a really muscular body trying to throw a side kick or roundhouse.
Agility and mass don't typically play well togather.
You are already a lean guy and getting huge is not your target, so your on the right track.
No matter what kind of excersize you do, you are going to develop some muscle and strength.
Low weight/high reps = endurance
High weight/low reps = mass
I have heard this preeched a million times over the years and practiced it myself and I say in confidence that it's pretty accurate.
I've never tried any kind of power lifting techniques, so I can't say what the effects would be of doing that, I'm not even sure what it is.
You probably want to avoid doing heavy lifting if your goal is agility and endurance. When I was in martial arts, which I have been pretty much my entire life (TKD, Judo, Karate, Kung Fu) I trained everyday only resting when my body demanded it and that training life style served me well.
This is contrary to what most body builders will tell you, in that you need to periodcially rest in order for muscle tissue to recover/regrow stronger and bigger. I tried applying that "train daily" philosophy in weight lifting when I first started getting into it as a young teenager and it resulted in injury and failure to grow. When I stepped back for a few days and tried again, I was actually stronger. I repreated this mistake several times over the next 10 years, only in the last 5 or 6 have I forced myself to rest every second day or 2 days of a 7 day week.
When excersizing, you need diversity. Another mistake I made for ages, doing the same thing, same weight, etc -- a technique which kind of transfered over from endurance training in martial arts. Muscle confusion, whatever you want to call it is absolutely essential when weight training. The same rule applies to endruance training, but it's more subtle. You can't really change the way your run, but you challenge yourself to run farther, faster each time.
Nothing wrong with using just your own body weight, so I don't know why crazytimes thinks this is a bad move. I've known lots of guys who did nothing but push ups, chinups, etc who were ripped and strong.
Charles Atlas pioneered an entire industry behind "self resistance" (aka: no weights at all):
http://charlesatlas.com/
I have always been a big Bruce fan...I have posters hidden away in my closet somewhere and I'm sure I've heard him mention Charles Atlas training principles before. Many martial artists will give credit to Charles Atlas, as they are dynamic people and train in every place concievable, not just the gym -- which is where self resistance comes in handy.
If pushups become to easy, try doing them inverted or a gentle decline. Bruce Lee did the two finger push up -- give that a try when your stronger.
What really made him powerful, was that he likely worked muscles most body builders don't even know they have. Finger muscles, who would think of that?
Smitty, do you know what 8% bf really looks like?
On someone will not much muscle, it looks like Mary Kate or Ashley Olsen.
On someone with lots of muscle, it's only a few steps away from the stage
I heard that Sylvestor Stallone has 4% body fat. Not sure if thats accurate or not, but I also read that one needs about 6-8% body fat *before* abdominal muscles begin to show. So you need a low body fat % if your goal is to have visible abs. In fact every guy I know that has visible abs is either skinny or maintains a really low body fat %. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:55:40 AM |
I heard that Sylvestor Stallone has 4% body fat. Not sure if thats accurate or not, but I also read that one needs about 6-8% body fat *before* abdominal muscles begin to show. So you need a low body fat % if your goal is to have visible abs. In fact every guy I know that has visible abs is either skinny or maintains a really low body fat %.
Stallone is usually low bodyfat, but not 4% low, 4% is competition bodybuilder lean.
Depending on genetics abs will usually come in around 12% and unless you have REALLY crappy genetics they should be very visible at 10% | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/25/2008 4:09:19 AM | Originally posted by bigkhanz
I beg to differ on the short and stubby part. Im 6'4 270lb myself and I generally crank out 100 push-ups with a weight vest as part of my warm up before jiu-jitsu every day.
I agree with you about all the rest though.
One example does not a trend make. I do not even know you.
I do however regularly participate in fitness tests with generally 10-30 other participants of varying heights and weights. The short muscular people always score higher on pushups. Situps are equal across the board, tall lanky people do best on the run, short skinny best on heaves.
You can beg all you want, it changes neither the biomechanical leverage of pushups or my empirical evidence. I will get to 100, hopefully by years end, this does not make it easy. Then we can really have a pissing competition, maybe pull out our penises or something, see who is really packing. Compare my Tae Kwon Do and weapons skills against your Jujitsu skills or something like that, threaten to beat each other up and stuff. I bet chicks would come running to the raw sexuality in the air as we meet in a clash of titans.
Or... we could just pretend you did not try and bring a pissing competition in here.
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:45:53 AM | | Wow, holy overreacting, Batman. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today, Crazytimes? | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:40:43 AM |
Wow, holy overreacting, Batman. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today, Crazytimes?
From pretty much everything I've seen him post, he appears to be a total penis.
Apologies if I am incorrect, however. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/25/2008 2:12:53 PM |
From pretty much everything I've seen him post, he appears to be a total penis.
Apologies if I am incorrect, however.
Apology accepted. Nice of you to do it in advance before the trouble started. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:43:18 PM |
Compare my Tae Kwon Do and weapons skills against your Jujitsu skills
Ummm...I was in Tae Kwon Do for long time GI. Many martial arts, since age 6 or so actually. Never did I see a big man do very well in any kind of foot work. Your biophysical advantage or whatever you called it doesn't support such movements as gracefully as shorter individuals.
Spin kicks are clumsy, side kicks are horid and the require agility to be effective at foot work just isn't there. While I won't argue that larger oppoents were hell as hard to "beat" they are also equally easy to avoid and it's true what the say: "The bigger they are, the hardert they fall".
Juijitsu would most certainly be the better art to practice at your size, as grapling, arm bars and throws are more about pure strength and size than agility and endruance.
I was in Judo for several years until I finally gave up because I always got slammed into the ground and my natural instinct was to kick and punch and avoid getting handled at all costs.
Then I joined Tae Kwon Do and started schooling anyone that came near me.
I don't think I have ever heard of anyone in any of the traditional martial arts (TKD, Kung Fu, Karate, etc) ever winning a MMA fight. Sure there are occasional Muay Thai fighters, but those fights almost *always* end up on the ground with some kind of choke hold winning the match.
The point is, I'd have to put my money on whats his name, with a 19-0 record he's on the right track.
p.s-The super heavy weight fights are always boring. They end faster because of the pure power in hits is far more likely to knock someone unconscienous within minutes of starting and movement is almost always restricted to typical power type wreslting. No offsense, but I think the smaller, middle/welter weights are the most intense fights, as the guys are leaner, faster and more elegant in technique. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/25/2008 11:41:57 PM | Ummm...I was in Tae Kwon Do for long time GI. Many martial arts, since age 6 or so actually. Never did I see a big man do very well in any kind of foot work. Your biophysical advantage or whatever you called it doesn't support such movements as gracefully as shorter individuals. LUL WORDS!
Are you quite finished explaining why I am not going to do 'well'? Assuming that I run out of ammunition, grenades expended, bayonette snapped, my knife broken and rifle butt smashed, then I will worry about whether I will 'do well' with my weights and martial arts training. I am unlikely ever to be in a firefight, let alone a pitched battle in those circumstances, but I will personally be putting my money on me in such a situation.
Thank you for your opinion. Do you want to compare penis sizes as well? These internet pissing competitions are the best, the 'my martial arts is better than yours' one always rocks. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:48:49 AM |  How did you snap your bayonette?
Should probably get back to Bruce Lee topic. He used katana. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:21:58 AM |
How did you snap your bayonette?
Poking muslim extremist communist Labor voting terrorists in the eye. Some of them have glass eyes from when I poked them before but they got away, they can snap as a result of said glass eye. | |
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| New routine idea, thoughts?
Posted: 5/26/2008 9:16:57 AM | | Bruce used nunchucks. Martial arts is an art, self defense, not to see show off and kick someone's butt for no reason. What style of taekwondo you practice? Can you speak some Korean? Who is your master? A true martial artist will show respect with all people. | |
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