| The "no kids" issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:10:41 AM | Something I have always wondered about, which is somethign that happened to me once long ago, and I ran across the other day once again.
Why is it that many women say they don't want to get to know, even on a purely friendship level, a guy that has kids.....when they have kids themselves......and use the excuse "I don't want any kid drama"? I mean....is that being a little bit hypocritical?
To me that's like looking at a rock star and hearing them say "Look...I like the job, but please....no sex or drugs please."
Just curious as to why women do this. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:14:56 AM | Well I dont understand it either. Unless her kids are grown and yours are still at home.
The other thing is........if you have girls, sometimes they dont want to share their daddy.
But what do I know..............ASK................... | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:26:05 AM | Some people (and guys do this too) just don't want to deal with the baby mamma/daddy drama. Personally, I've never had to deal with any drama like that from my ex, but there are some that do.
Some people just don't like to share or they want to be "number one" on the totem pole and they know that kids always come first.
It's all about preferences......  | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:35:59 AM | Someone told me the same thing once about the whole "momma drama" issue.....but couldn't there also be "daddy drama", or how about "kid drama" itself?
I just hate when someone uses kids against you as a reason not to even give you a chance.....I mean how are they to know if there is even any drama there without even trying? It's almost a defeatist and negative attitude to have.
I accepted long ago, like in my early 20's, that virtually any woman I would ever be in a relationship with would have kids already. I just acceterd it and deal with the issue thaty come along with that. I know there will be daddy drama and kid drama.....but that automatically comes with being a parent. I don't know why anyone with kids themselves actually expects otherwise from anyone else. But thats just me. Maybe I am just odd that way. lol | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:36:47 AM | Doesn't bother me, my kids are grown but I have family and friends with young children, as long as they don't ask me 2 child mind its all good | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:54:59 AM | I can't understand ruling someone out just because he/she has kids. I've dated guys with kids, either living with them all the time, some of the time or mostly just weekends. The only time dating a guy with kids has been a problem for me is if he allows them to run around like wild animals or if there is major drama between him & their mom. I get along with my ex and his wife and even do things with them and the kids on occasion. Not everyone can be that cordial, but being civil for the kid's sake is a MUST for me.
Anyone who will disqualify someone just for having kids without knowing them is not worth knowing in my book. I think it shows a lack of emotional and mental maturity. Aside from that, once you get past 30 it's hard to find someone who hasn't had kids already, so you're loosing out on a large number of worthwhile people. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:02:16 AM | | Just another in a long list of reasons why people don't want other people..as well as judgements made about them | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:04:18 AM | | I have had more than one man with children say to me he prefers to date someone without children, it just makes it easier. I actually prefer to date men with children. "Dads" just seem to be nicer guys. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:20:33 AM | I appreciate if my partner has children, for it means we might have shared similar life experience and responsibility. Also, how they are with their children really shows their character, their compassion, their love, I think. And I like getting close to my partner's children, too, for they are part of him. By the way, please understand I am not prejudiced against those who have not had children, for some are just naturally wonderful with them. So, I am open to all possibilities.
But, I can understand some of the reasons I have felt myself and heard why others stay away from other single parents - there are never any guarantees your children, or their children are going to like the new person on the block and if not, they can really make things very awkward for everybody....just like they might not get along with each other, though I have not had that problem. (And I am mixed on when to introduce them, but that is not this thread, so I will stay away from that issue here.)
But the subject of the ex's sometimes can still be so negative and the ex could have a real issue with you too. In those cases where your b/f or g/f does not get along with their ex, if there are children, then that ex will indirectly be part of your life.
(To me it's a good indication again of your partner's character how they are with their ex.)
And the other issue I've heard is time and money too. Some just don't seem to want to share the little free time they have with you (and your children). So, if they don't want to include them, then they become exluded - and that again could be a conflict. And financially, since so many men have been taken to the cleaners by their ex's, it seems, they automatically are dubious about getting deeply involved with someone who might start relying on them to help financially.
So, if somone does not want to get involved with me because I still have one I'm raising at home, then I really don't want to get involved with them either.....for I know how great it is when they have a compatibility with your children, and vice versa. It's so fulfilling (imo) and really adds so much to the relationship for everybody. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:25:43 AM | ~I think the jury is still out on this one. The main factor being the age of your kid(s)
I get this question all the time...Seems the men I meet have children that are grown/left the nest. They had children in their younger years(some VERY young). They seem to prefer if a lady has children, 1 foot should be out the door...My kids have their own life now, and being with me is NOT a priority. But I get painted with the same brush...under the category of: kids=no time to be alone with this women. Yes, kids can take up your time, but there can be balance. It can be done. Don't forget, women are the #1 multi-taskers.
Then there's the men from the camp of: I don't want to be a dad again. Hey! No one asked you to.... 
The bottom line is, there's some real cool fishy's out there that are mom's...don't let that stop you  | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:26:59 AM | | Well I don't have any kids so I guess I am not qualified to answer this. But I would think it's because they already went through it with their own offspring, so don't want the 'drama' of another woman's offspring. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:39:24 AM | This isn't just a woman thing. I see guys do this too. I actually have a close guy friend that made this choice actually...and further understand the reasoning since hearing his view. (not saying it is right or wrong...just his reasoning). In his case, his kids are older...the youngest is 16 ...his daughters are both in college. He chooses not to date women with children for a couple of reasons. One, because the free time he has, he doesn't feel it is really fair to be spending it with someone else's kids and not his own. (even though that is time they are normally with their mom...I think he still feels guilty about it). Two...he's come to a place in his life now where he admits...he wants to be able to have the freedom to pick up and go whenever...he has the means to do this..and this is more difficult with children. Plus, there is the "will the kids get along" dynamic"....AND...what if the relationship *doesn't* work....and you get close to the kid(s)? He already felt like his heart was ripped when he didn't get to see his own kids every day anymore when he divorced...and if it would happen again (as there ARE no guarantees in life--as much as we'd like to think a new relationship will last forever)...he doesn't want to become close to to a child and then lose that relationship as well as the partner relationship (again).
I think it is a personal choice...and yes, it does very much limit the dating opportunities...but I think usually the person making the decision is aware of this, and probably has reasons for choosing this. And it may not just be as selfish as we initially think at face value. I know I used to think that before really talking about it with him more and understanding it more over time. JMO. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:41:04 AM | To me that's like looking at a rock star and hearing them say "Look...I like the job, but please....no sex or drugs please.
Seems to me that Aerosmith actually became MORE popular once they actually said those words and went to REHAB. And after meeting Joey Kramer a couple of weeks ago..he still has his act together......I'm bummed to hear Steve fell off the wagon though.....
But I DIGRESS!!!
OP.....most times the problem really doesn't have anything to do with the kids SPECIFICALLY....the biggest hurdle for most anybody who goes into 'the kid zone' has to do with whether or not the parenting styles MATCH. BOTH fathers and mothers are very guilty these days of 'spoiling' their kids, particularly the divorced ones who have feelings of 'guilt' in regards to their kids. This then prohibits parents from actually.......wait for it....wait for it.....PARENTING!! Most tend to give kids far too many things now, never teaching them disciplines or doing 'without' to keep a kid, supposedly, in line. When a new person comes into the picture, the KID seems to be the one calling the shot....NOT the other GROWN UP. And this is the main cause of most of these problems today...... The two ADULTS are not 'joining minds' and forming a 'union' on the home front. Each parent ends up playing 'buffer' for their kids.....which shouldn't be done.
Add to that the myriad amounts of BULLSHIT given by any EX in the picture. Plenty of women get a little fed up with being classified as the 'wicked step monster' by the 'kniving' ...(yes...I KNOW it's misspelled.....Hello!!) ex wife who just can't stand the thought of somebody else CORRECTING their little darling if their is shared custody on the bio parents....or the battle of the CHILD SUPPORT...... and Yada....yada....farickin YADA!!!
I said this in another post....but I'll keep hammering it in.... Until the two ADULTS form a WALL that prevents the KIDS from getting in BETWEEN the two....then there will be problems. Because whether any parent likes to know this are not.......kids are NOT stupid....and believe it or not......kids have one ONE agenda in life when they are kids.....to GET WHAT THEY WANT.......they will go to GREAT LENGTHS to do it!! And sometimes, breaking up two ADULTS is what they will WANT to GET.....Kids need to learn that it's the PARENTS who make the decisions....NOT THEM.....EVEN if it involves 'steps'.....
And again....I recommend books by John Rosemond on this issue.....feel free to Google him.....and make sure that you print out a copy of CHILDREN'S RIGHTS on his webpage.....and then post it to the FRIDGE....and then LIVE by it....and watch those kids suddenly make a face like BUCKWHEAT on the Little Rascals.....
Better yet.....here they are.....please feel free to copy and paste
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John Rosemond's Bill of Rights For Children
Because it is the most character-building, two-letter word in the English language, children have the right to hear their parents say "NO" at least three tirmes a day.
Children have the right to find out early in their lives that their parents don't exist to make them happy, but to offer them the opportunity to learn the skills they - children - will need to eventually make themselves happy.
Children have a right to scream all they want over the decisions their parents make, albeit their parents have the right to confine said screaming to certain areas of their homes.
Children have the right to find out early that their parents care deeply for them, but don't give a hoot what their children think about them at any given moment in time.
Because it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, children have the right to hear their parents say "Because I said so" on a regular and frequent basis.
Because it is the most character-building activity a child can engage in, children have the right to share significantly in the doing of household chores.
Every child has the right to discover early in life that he isn't the center of the universe (or his family or his parents' lives), that he isn't a big fish in a small pond, that he isn't the Second Coming, and that he's not ever - in the total scheme of things - very important at all, no one is, so as to prevent him from becoming an insufferable brat.
Children have the right to learn to be grateful for what they receive; therefore, they have the right to receive all of what they truly need and very little of what they simply want.
Children have the right to learn early in their lives that obedience to legitimate authority is not optional, that there are consequences for disobedience, and that said consequences are memorable and, therefore, persuasive.
Every child has the right to parents who love him.her enough to make sure he/she enjoys all of the above rights. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 10:01:29 AM | Why would you want a woman who's not interested in your kids? It's a pretty safe bet that a woman who's been married before and yet doesn't have kids of her own just don't care for children! Doesn't mean she hates them or you...why take it personally? You're just not at the same stage in life, she either doesn't want or feels her family is complete at this point...
Besides, there are far more women who have kids and ARE sympathetic to the issues of a dad...concentrate on them rather than complain about the few you can't have! | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 12:00:35 PM | Here's a question I would ask, why would you want to force someone to do something they don't want to do? Especially someone that you don't even know yet. If they don't want any drama, "kid drama" or otherwise, then that's what they want. I don't think it's hypocritical at all. They love their own kids and don't really want to add you and your kids to the equation (or any guy and their kids for that matter). There are probably at least an equal number of men that do this same thing. So, your query:
Just curious as to why women do this.
should be "Just curious as to why PEOPLE do this."
And the answer is, because they want to. Imposing your will on someone else does nothing for either party.
Also, generalizing a situation based on your limited 2 time scenario makes no sense either. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 12:01:48 PM | For someone without kids of their own, it can simply be a lifestyle decision...
But I also think the potential that in many jurisdictions the person could find themselves forced to pay child support for someone else's spawn if things didn't work out might dissuade many from pursuing a relationship with a single parent. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 12:07:16 PM | | I love kids and if a guy as kids, it does not bother me at all, The women that say they dont want to get to know you are stupid. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 12:22:15 PM | I myself have never dated a man with children...I don't have any myself. (My biological clock is blinking 12:00) - I don't know how I'd feel about dating a guy with children. I'd be nervous - I read enough Dear Abby to know that there is possible conflict there, I like kids well enough - I like that I can have fun with them for a short time and send them back to their parent(s).
This topic gave me food for thought, because I don't know how I'd like to date a man with kids :) cheers! | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 2:32:01 PM | ~YIKES! People, people....What is up with the negative labels???
Kid drama? Unpredictable baggage?? There human beings for krikey sakes....YOU were once a kid too! Wow, I've seen some kids have more brains and common sense than adults! Lighten up....
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 2:51:54 PM | | You sure it's "many" women that say that? | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 3:11:58 PM | My son was born when I was 21, but his mother and I split up when he was only 9 months old, so I became one of those weekend dads. Always had him around on weekends and took good care of him, making sure I was part of his life and that he grew up knowing his father. Thankfully, in the group of people I hung out with then there were also quite a few girls who loved having him around too, and were occasionally helpful with babysitting on the rare occasions I had a date, or helping me with him if we were all at a gathering. But none of them wanted to date me, because I had a child, and they explained it just wasn't a steady responsibility they were ready for yet. Included in that group was my future sister-in-law, who met my brother again (they had gone to grade school together) at a party at my place. It worked out very well just the way it did, for all three of us...lol I wasn't thrilled by being turned down by these gals, but I understood. And yes, ironically enough one or two of these women found themselves in the same situation, divorced with little ones, several years later and were having a tough time finding a guy that wanted to date them, but by then I had moved on.
Dating someone with children isn't always easy, because it is indeed a package deal, and the kids have to come first. I don't look at children as baggage or drama or any other such negative connotation, but let's face it, it can make the process more complicated. For me, my first preference is to date someone without children, since its hard enough to get to know one person without having to get to know 2 or 3 or more. But then again, I never say never, and if I meet a woman who has children that I am interested in, well, the children are just part of the equation. The hard part for me on occasions when I have been seriously involved with a woman with kids is that I get attached, and so do they, and when their mom and I split up I miss the kids too. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 3:28:03 PM | it is tough, its already tough enough to have children get used to a new person; its even more difficult to have kids adjust to and get to know other kids, if your kids don't get along there can be a myriad of problems that are harder to resolve than issues tween kids and an adult.
some people just don't want to deal w/the extra sh*t necessary to make it work; just like some people w/out kids don't want to date someone w/kids, it just makes things even the basic aspects of relationships more difficult.
some people know how hard it is CUS they have kids and don't want to have to deal w/those things w/someone else.
hyprocritical to a point, but we all do it; people who are heavy don't always like heavy people, people who are unemployed don't like unemployed people, etc etc | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 3:31:15 PM | It is a pot and kettle situation for sure. If one does not have kids or wants kids or only wants to have their own kids, good for them. But if you have own kids living at home, how dare you have the nerve to say, "the man I want cannot have kids" That is pot and kettle. A lot of single moms complain that they cannot get a date because they have kids and men assume they are looking for a new 'baby daddy.' I am sure that is true in some cases, not in most though as I know many single mothers who can support themselves and their kids too and do it well.
If you have kids at home why can't the man have kids at home too? Je ne comprend pas.
~Carrie | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 4:45:59 PM | My child is grown. But you would be surprised (or maybe not) the many men in their 40's AND 50's who have infant/toddler/pre-school children who have primary custody of said children.
I've raised mine and I don't particularly want to rewind and do it again. I loved raising my daughter, I was younger, I already did that. I'm an empty nester now and have been for a while and I like it now. I don't particularly want to be in my late 60's or 70's for those infant/ toddler kids to leave the nest. But that's just me.
While I highly commend single/primary custodial fathers in today's world......not for me. Older children, fine. | |
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| The no kids issue
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:06:11 PM | | I would welcome a man who had children; however, I pull up the welcome mat when the ex and him can't act like adults in their divorced state. That to me is just too much drama. I would have thought that the lines of the divorce were written before the court granted the divorce, but it seems that sometimes one of the partners eventually wants to change the rules (on their own). I just don't want to be dragged into the disputes between someone I am dating and the custodial spouse. Just too darn much drama and too darn many cancelled plans!!!! | |
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