| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:24:45 PM | I seem to have an extreme "luck" to attract people who sooner or later find themself in some need and ... in my pocket one way or another.
I have just handed a whole chicken (yup, chicken - from my freezer) and few tins of tuna to someone who let it slip that she has nothing for the kids for dinner.
Considering I saw the same person with 2 750 cl bottles of Smirnoff only last night...still I could not go to sleep knowing that she really has nothing to feed the kids (12 and 14).
The woman is out of work, does not speak English and her b/f who brought her here about 10 months ago (and her 2 kids from a previous relationship) has left last week (after beating her up black and blue) in a flat with 1050 per month rent-which is due on the 4th.
For the past week she has been at mine nearly every evening - smoking my fags, drinking my coffee and generally complaining about life while giving all hints that eventually she will get back with her b/f.
I try to help as much as I can, she is a nice person and I really like her but....I am on my own myself and work my arse off to try to make decent life for myself and my daughter.
Apart for the material things - I call places for her from my phone (she does not have a landline and mobile not topped up) and now she has asked me to go with her to the other side of London for the parent's evening in her kids school (language) and to benefits office on my day off to help her sort out possible housing benefit etc. I know for a fact that she has no money for the bus to go to either.
Now, I do not have much spare time and taking a day off want just crash out and recharge my batteries as my work is draining me completely - as much as I love it, even GOW needs a break sometimes.
How far would you go to help someone - at the cost of your own expenses, time etc? | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:32:58 PM |
How far would you go to help someone - at the cost of your own expenses, time etc? That would depend on how well I knew the person that needed my help, and how much I like and respect them. Generally I wouldn't help someone if I felt they were trying to take advantage of me, and I wouldn't necessarily offer the help they want or expect.
From what you have said it strikes me that the best help this woman could get would be help to go home. The only thing she has to keep her here is an abusive relationship, and a neighbour who she can get favours from. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:39:26 PM | Thanks - the problem is she does not want to go back "home" as she feels that when she gets the benefits, she is better off here.
Now that is something I am tottaly against in principle so it makes it all worse.
As she lives one floor above me, she sees me coming home from work and knocks within minutes of me arriving home.
As much as I like to help, I do feel a bit trapped with the situation as I do quite enjoy my peace and quiet at home after work.
I pay her for walking my dog - that started a month ago when they moved in here but as far as I know at the moment this is the only money she has and I feel awful to change a dog walker as I know she needs the money.
Also that means that she has a key to my place and access to it when taking the dog out while I am at work so obviously sees my full fridge, extra packets of fags etc etc.
At the same time I have to say I do feel a bit trapped. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:00:34 PM |
how far would you go?
Not as far as you....... really....
Let her know that you do not have much spare time and taking a day off want just crash out and recharge my batteries as my work is draining me completely - as much as I love it, even GOW needs a break sometimes Why shouldnt she know this?
If she was your sister, say, wouldnt you tell her how you felt? I know I would. So therefore I would feel OK telling neighbour {inadvertently taking the p***} the same, wouldnt you? Put yourself in her position, wouldnt you want to know ~ clearly, comprehensively, utterly ~ that a person helping you wanted to but at the same time had other equally important things to do? | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:06:55 PM | Talking about "sister" - well, her brother lives with her and works.
He went for a long weekend back home, is coming back on Tuesday.
Maybe that is why I feel worse - feeling he should have helped her/left her enough money to live on till he gets back.
Or that he did leave her enough money which she has consumed in liquid form with a friend of hers last night - mind it , it was her birthday.
Maybe that is why I do not particularly want to go with her to the benefits office to "translate" as I know she wants to claim as single mother living alone with her kids....
Difficult one for me really - as much as I have 3 prospective dog walkers to take over from her at a day's notice.. still do not want to cause problems as she only lives one floor up from me and this is her only income at the moment.
I guiess this wouold have been much easier if she did not live as close as she does.
When I get home and want to have a nap - I turn off the phones and put the intercom on silent.
Her knocking on the door puts my rather large dog in a happy barking mode so no escape at all.
Where is the "banging my head against a brick wall" icon? | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:36:07 PM |
Where is the "banging my head against a brick wall" icon?
That is where, or how, you want it to be.
I lived in a hostel for about a month and the understanding amongst all that shared was - if a door was shut - not necessarily locked but just shut, door against door frame - then a person/family was not to be disturbed. An open door - whatever degree - indicated to others they could knock/call on/go in.
You need time to yourself ~ as does anyone ~ let them, and everyone else know when it's OK to knock on the door and when it's not. Just think what you would need to know to go banging on others doors any old time.... and apply the same the them...
Again
Where is the "banging my head against a brick wall" icon?
There is one... ha ha.... just wish (if I could be bothered to find it) it would help.....!!! | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:22:52 PM | Hi there GOW, I have a lot of sympathy for your situation, I also have a tendency to take other people's problems on my own shoulders and get taken for a mug into the bargain, usually. Over the few occasions it has happened I have learnt to harden myself up and would no longer stand for being taken as a soft touch. It's one thing helping a good friend who is genuinely in need, (and I really would do anything I could to help a true friend), but to me it sounds as though this woman is a bit of a leech and the fact that she is a victim of domestic abuse is inadvertently being used as a form of emotional blackmail against you and a very effective tool for manipulating you  which makes me angry FOR you ! 
I hate to sound cynical but if you can possibly try to look at this situation from a detached point of view, I predict you'll find that when her benefits come through she'll drop you like a hot potato, which hopefully will come as something of a relief to you.
Thus speaks the cynical voice of experience !
Here's a hug for encouragement 
Be Strong !!  | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:24:22 PM | | for me there is helping someone who is in need and then there is someone taking the P**S out of me. i think she is taking the latter with you.. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:34:09 PM | I was in a similar position about 6 yrs ago, I pointed the lady in the direction of the DSS office - 6 weeks later she was being deported to America. I never realised she was an illegal immigrant. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:46:06 PM |
At the same time I have to say I do feel a bit trapped. You need to get your key back off this woman. Even if it is only to gain a sense of control over the situation. Ideally I think you ought to cut ties with her as much as is practical given how close she lives to you. If you feel trapped then you are being emotionally abused, as daft as that may sound to some, and the longer you let this continue the harder it will become to stop. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:14:41 AM | i would say that if you have already promised her to go help out with the school thing and the DSS thing, then go if you feel you should, then there has to be a limit.. you must tell her from then on you are not her first point of call.. that you have not minded helping out but you have to put your own self /family first..
AND STICK TO IT..
sometimes its hard, but you are not responsible for her, and the more you do for some people the more they expect you to do..
i think you have done more than enough for her, and really she as an adult has to be made aware that you cannot afford the time money or personal unheaval of keep helping her out..
try calling social services and make a hypothetical enquiry as to wat to do to get her help, im sure there must be some sort of help available for her... | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:59:31 AM | | be true to yourself - if it is not done with a willing heart and you harbour any sort of resentment then dont do it - it is not on your shoulders to save the world and if it was inspired you would do it gladly - dont feel guilty about how you feel as there are government agencies she can turn to - she sees you prepared to help and is now abusing that help | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:13:57 AM | Grumpy, you are really a sweet person, and have helped as much as you can, but you have boundries to set, knock on her door when you get home, tell her you are going for a sleep, recommend she looks for a job now, I know the language will be a prob. but a good way to learn, plenty of people in the tourist industry looking for workers.
I would do the same to help someone, but then I would like to see them start to stand on their own two feet. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:15:41 AM | Find out from the police the contact details for the local women's refuge. A few days there would help her keep safe from the abusive partner until brother returns. The refuge would probably be able to help with the benefits claims too.
Benefits claims are made over the 'phone and they are able to get a translator online and on the 'phone in the office when she has to go in, so you don't need to take time off work to go, look in the 'phone book for the number (Freefone 0800 0 556688 I think but do check, she can call from a callbox). They will also deal with the Housing Benefit claim at the same time. Don't do it online - it takes a few more days to take the claim and you both need to get this sorted ASAP.
Tell her that her dog-walking income may cut her benefits and so you don't think it would be advisable for her to continue with it (actually true only if you pay her more than £25, but hey! Needs must...) and get your key back.
Post a postit note on your door when you come home from work saying you have had a bad day and need a nap to recover from the headache.
Look up the Local Housing Allowance for your local council and find out if she is going to be able to stay where she is at that rent, she may well not be able to afford it and have to move, if so then just grin and bear it until she does go.
On the other hand, a bit more positive help you may be able to give:
Try to find out if she has the right to stay here on her own or if she came in as a "family member" - she may have "no recourse to public funds" in her vignette in her passport.
If she came into the UK within the last 9 months, find an ESOL course at the local college she can enrol on, even though it may be full-time study she will be able to claim benefits and it will help her stand on her own feet later.
Call 0845 300 3 900 for her (Local Call Rate) to make a Child Tax Credit claim OR help her do it online (Google HMRC for the starting point) at no cost if that isn't already in place. Get her to get a Child Benefit claim pack (write the request out on paper for her to show) from the local Post Office if necessary. Of course, if she does have those in place she already has an income of over £120 per week - and if she doesn't, did her partner claim those for her? If so, she needs to tell the Tax Credit people and the Child Benefit Centre of the break-up and make her own claims.
Hope all that helps! | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 3:19:56 AM | I have learned the best way to help someone is not to "do for" but to "enable to do for themselves".
So my advice would be to put her in touch with CAB who can help to do all the co-ordinating of local and statutory services, arragne interpreters and language line etc, maybe even access a support service which will help her to sort it all out. Benefits will arrange interpreters when CAB make her an appointment so you dont need to be there!
No food for the kids...... she sure knew where to find some though didnt she!
No credit on phone........ she sure knew where to find some though didnt she!
No transport .................. ditto!
No money....................... ditto!
I would make it clear to her that I dont want her to knock on my door between certain times, just because she knocks doesnt mean you have to let her in!
I would take my key back in a shot... send the dog to my moms or a friends for a few days, if you feel awkward telling her how you feel, send out lots and lots of "back off" signals which make your position really clear....... I dont think you are doing this at all........this woman is taking advantage of you
Come on grumpy....... your conscience is clear...... time to let go!!
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 4:29:45 AM | OMG - thanks a lot everyone for so much advice and support
I have a day off today so told her not to take the dog out, need time to figure out what/how to do and will use quite a lot of the advice above given.
BTW, I have already tried the note on the door thing - did not work.
She is well aware that I have a problem with neighbours opposite me who forever complain about my dog barking even if it is just for a second and will still knock, then few minutes later her 13 yo daughter will knock, then again few minutes later her 12 yo son will knock - all causing my dog to bark and giving me stress about another possibility of the neighbours complaining.
They only have one set of keys for their place so if she is not at home and her kids come from school - they buzz my number again.
I do not have any family here myself so can not send the dog anywhere for a few days, I do have some people who are interested in dog walking for me.
You are all absolutely right, I have to take the key off her for a start as soon as possible to detach myself.
As I have paid her in advance, I will arrange for someone else to dog walk from 1st July.
No, I have not promised her to go with her to school or DSS - she assumed I would.
Yes, I am aware of various language lines (and so is she) etc as she was calling those from my phone.
No, she would not go to a refuge as she "loves her flat" etc....
She is from Poland so yes, has the right to stay here.
Never mind, will start with taking the keys off her.
Thanks again everyone. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 6:15:51 AM | GOW - please mail me, I can't bypass your restrictions for an initial mail.
I can't be totally sure because I am not at work today but even if she is from Poland (why did I take that as read anyway?) she may still not have the right to claim benefits. I need to access my work intranet site to be able to say for sure.
But the advice to point her towards the CAB is a very good one! Shortcut to the end I was aiming for in my post! | |
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cargy
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Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 18 | |
| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 6:44:22 AM | There's a fine line between being a friend and being a doormat.
Some people instinctively cotton on straight away if they find an easy mark, and start to take it for granted.
Helping someone through a temporary blip is one thing, but it's wasted effort if they use it as a means of evading a need to take action.
Sometimes, the best thing you can do is say "No! No more". | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:55:10 AM | Anniesea - thanks but I really do not want to bother you with personal emails/advice.
She simply does not want to be "pointed in the right direction", she wants to have things done/sorted for her.
Yes, she has right to benefits, not income support or jobseeekrs allowance but working families tax credits as she has 2 kids and "works" some hours per week (on paper only) which would entile her to WFTC and HB/CTB.
Just negotiating another dog walker, will take the keys off her on the 1st and advice to contact CAB.
Thanks again. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 9:49:21 AM | "She simply does not want to be "pointed in the right direction", she wants to have things done/sorted for her."
= end of help! you have done more than enough. tell her not to knock again unless she is willing to help herself | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 10:45:09 AM | Hmmm ... tough one.
From your description I would guess that she is a woman who presently has little self confidence or self worth. I'd guess that she has trapped herself by her previous poor choices and now is unable to see any way out of the trap.
If that is the case then you need to empower her to solve her own problems. Keep asking her how she intends to solve her problems, what did she do in the past 24 hours towards a solution? Offer help with her ideas but don't provide free solutions. Praise what she does well, ignore what she does badly. Help her to see a better future, help her to see a route out, walk that route with her when you can and are happy to do so, but don't try to *carry* her along it.
One problem with friends who help without questions (and also with a liberal benefits system), is that for the chronically lazy, selfish or immature, or for people who have dug a pit of despair and fallen into it, the endless supply of free gifts provides no incentive for them to grow as people. They just lose whatever self confidence and self-respect they had and become incapable of breaking the dependency on the gifts. That being the case, it could be helpful for somebody else to break the dependency for them. Being cruel to be kind and all that.
Ultimately we are each responsible for our own lives. Its her life ... *she* has to live it, and if she won't you cannot live it for her.
Hope you manage to play a constructive role in her life. Good luck. | |
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| Helping out - how far would you go?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:57:01 PM | Thanks again everyone.
I have spoken to her today and explained that I can not go to places with her on my days off for a start.
I have also told her that just because I seem to have money - I am always stuck a week before payday (teenage daughter LOL) to which she replied "Well, at least you do have salary. At that point I have slightly lost it as I won't allow anyone sending me on a guit trip about me working and having means to support myself while that person had a brand new, unopened packet of Marlboro (£5.43 here) on the table but winged about having no money to feed the kids the night before
So told her a few things, set some ground rules and will see how it goes.
To the person mentioning her suposed low self esteem etc - I am not sure about that.
I was poor once, living off benefits in a homeless bed and breakfast for nearly a year with my then young daughter and maybe this tought me how to be humble.
She is in a 1050 per month flat that she can not afford, talks about top of the range make up and simply wants to have high life at the expense of others.
Ah, I will get over it and no, it does not mean I will never help someone else out again.
Thanks everyone again, all advice very much appreciated. | |
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