| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 1:29:05 AM | I have an interesting situation.
A woman that I know was having marital problems. Married 20 years and she is a real straight arrow Christian, whose husband left her for a woman he was singing on the worship team at their church with. I suspected there had been cheating, as she had been complaining often before the split that he was "working late" or rehearsing an awful lot.
So, being the allied health major that I am... I told her to go get checked ASAP. I would tell any woman whose husband was cheating on her, the exact same thing, regardless of who they were or how well I knew them.
So, I get a call from her, and she is crying. She thanks me for sending her to the doctor and told me that has chlamydia.
I tell her that she immediately needs to inform her husband of this fact.
And suddenly, her entire demeanor changes. She almost growled at me. She refuses to tell him. I try and explain to her that it is a health risk to the entire community, and she will not budge.
I most assuredly did not want to be smack dab in the middle of this. Because I know about it and it's a bigger issue than just her, I feel a responsibility to let him know. Part of me says "tell him" and the other part says "butt out Miss Nosy Boots this is not your business."
I do know her husband, just in passing. Enough to say "hi" and "how are you" to him. But I do know where he works and where he goes to church, so if I really wanted to seek him out, I could do it relatively easily. I am just not sure what I would say to him if I did see him. How do you say... "Oh incidentally, you gave your soon to be ex wife an STD", in a way that is not going to get you smacked in the dome?
Any suggestions? | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 1:56:42 AM | tread lightly and wear protective clothing and headgear.. (seems even thinking something these days can get you in trouble)
not sure if a bullet proof vest is in order.
there may be other reasons that your friend , just isnt ready to confront him. Be patient, I am sure it will be played out sooner then you think. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 2:05:36 AM | | You've done enough, and any more will be too much. It's not up to you to keep the community free of chlamydia, and if this woman doesn't see fit to tell her husband--for whatever reason--that's between them. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:08:52 AM | Maybe you could appeal to her sense of outrage at his infidelity. That she could have the satisfaction of telling him that his behaviour has consequenses beyond his own selfishness, knowing that this "other woman" may have cheated on Him.
If she wants to consider herself a "Good Christian" (whatever that means), she should speak up.
It is a public health issue and you would be within your rights (responsibility) to manipulate her a bit to do the right thing. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:24:59 AM | | An anonymous letter with a county letterhead should solve the problem. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:36:06 AM | It would be a hard call for me...
What I understand about the disease says it can cause serious damage, but not death...
If I was in your boots...
I would probably go with this thought...
I protected my friend to the best of my ability...
It is not deadly from what I understand, if it was I would feel obligated to protect a semi stranger I knew in passing even if it would jepordize a friendship...
Most women I have known in my life who have not had kids want them. My best advice would be to talk to her and focus on bypassing her hatred for the lady he's cheated on her with. Get her to think about the next lady who may get the disease, the potential friend, who wants children that could have this ability taken away from her if she does not do the right thing. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:51:03 AM | Anyone ever consider that it just might be the wife that is also having an extra marital affair here? Why would she get vituperative? Is she afraid of losing him that much? Just a thought, but only a thought.
Back to the original question:
You've served your role as a friend and have done enough. It's time to back away and let them make their own adult decisions. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:03:40 AM | You've served your role as a friend and have done enough. It's time to back away and let them make their own adult decisions.
She's right Momi. You made a suggestion, she listened. It is now between her, the slimeball and God.
Just yesterday, a friend told me how her friend who had been married 20 years and out of the job market for 19, had been given an STD by her husband. It turns out that he had been cheating on her all along and had rang up $200k in debt. It is quite sad for they have nothing to show for it and she's in her late 50's. No retirement money for her.  | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:37:35 AM |
Is she afraid of losing him that much
um, he's already gone.
It's time to back away and let them make their own adult decisions
OP makes clear that this kind of behaviour has a larger societal implications. Her friend should be encouraged to do what is right for her own well-being, not lower herself to his cheating-azz ways by holding back potentially damaging information. That's Not being vituperative. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:45:21 AM |
OP makes clear that this kind of behaviour has a larger societal implications. Her friend should be encouraged to do what is right for her own well-being, not lower herself to his cheating-azz ways by holding back potentially damaging information. That's Not being vituperative.
Correct and she has done what she should do as a friend. She calls this a moral dilemma, not a larger societal one.
ummm.
It was the friend's behavior once the OP told her she should tell the husband I was calling vituperative. Not the OP. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:49:16 AM | Try to understand the nature of her deep hurt... finding out that not only is her "holier than" husband cheating, but she's also been stricken with a disease as a result of it.
I think she'll probably do the right thing, but you might consider backing off and apologizing to her about telling her how to deal with it.
Obviously her life is out of control right now and she's probably barely got a grip on anything, least of all her own sanity... so I don't think we can expect people undergoing that type of stress to be calm and rational.
It is up to her to tell him, but he'll find out one way or another... | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:52:54 AM | OP said,
it's a bigger issue than just her
She Is Society. We all are. The soon-to-be ex-wife has a responsibility to others than herself. If not, where will we be? | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:04:00 AM |
She Is Society. We all are. The soon-to-be ex-wife has a responsibility to others than herself. If not, where will we be?
This thread was put up to ask a question and invite opinions. If it was actually a game of "dog pile", perhaps I need to find the rule book.
She asked. I gave, and so be it. You are entitled to your take on it, as am I.
Where will we be? We will be where we are already heading. Society telling us what we can eat, drink, smoke and where; up to and including, the confines of our own home. I am waiting for the day the "concerned citizens" lobby blood pressure machines and scales outside grocery stores and take blood pressure readings and weigh them in. An assessment is made of their health and they are free to go in the store. Once they leave they will be subjected to cart inspection and anything that is bad for their heart, blood pressure, or weight is discarded.
It's a societal problem and a fact that heart disease is the number one killer of Americans and obesity is running, huffing and puffing behind trying to catch up. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:23:10 AM | With her defensive demeanor it seems to me that maybe she has been getting a little on the side as well. Or after the split?
Your work here is done. If this is just someone you know you could toss out the, " you tell him or I will." Depending on whetther or not this is a friendship you care about or more of an aquaintance? | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:31:10 AM | I would recommend to her that she go talk to her pastor and get some compassionate counseling. If the husband is still in the church (which I doubt), the leadership should be informed as to the situation since it impacts more than just the 3 parties involved.
And kudos to Mominatrix for recommending that she get tested. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:55:08 AM | Oof!
Kudos for talking her into getting checked. The rest is really tough. The STD is already here, and can't be stopped, so saying nothing is justifiable. In a seven generation spread, stopping one instance can be a lot. Got any anonymous phone numbers? Like the local health department? | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:20:58 AM | I tell her that she immediately needs to inform her husband of this fact.
And suddenly, her entire demeanor changes. She almost growled at me. She refuses to tell him.
Since she is a friend, I would be press her (confidentially) for the reason she won't tell him...
Her stubborn growl begs these two questions:
Does she have concerns that she was actually the one to bring it into the relationship?
Or, more likely, she is simply wanting to punish him (and therefore everyone he comes into contact with until he is treated) for being a cheat in the first place?
She may need to do a lot of soul searching for an answer to this...
Since chlamydia has fertility and other health consequences, it is simply a matter of being a being a decent human-being even if her ex lacks decency.
If she still refuses to DO THE RIGHT THING, I would question her W.W.J.D? policy since she is a Christian...
Allowing disease to go unchecked when you, personally, have the power to prevent its spread is VERY un-Christian like, and neither is playing the part of the vindictive, scorned woman.
Tell her that she IS better than that.
In her hurt and anger, she may need to be reminded of that fact.
edit: Good job on the quick thinking, Trix! | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:46:30 AM | I know she did not cheat. That would not even be on the table for discussion. It was not something she would have ever conceived of. Added to this, she is a home schooler and rarely out alone without her kids. When I met her, she had her kids with her. It takes a literal act of God to get her to come out alone with the girls for dinner every so often. A big part of the reason I like her so much, she is very dedicated to her kids and family and very active in the community.
In fact, when he said he was leaving, she did not even believe he was cheating, it took a several of us to convince her. For a week he stayed in a hotel after he told her, then he moved in with this other woman, removing all doubt.
The church that they are serving in is a very large and well known church. No one in leadership has taken any action and the naughty parties are still serving, despite the fact that the pastoral team has been informed. The excuse given was... "We don't have replacements for them." She has not informed the pastoral team yet about the disease, but honestly I don't think it should make a difference. She is looking for another church and stopped going there as a result of this. I think that is an excellent choice.
I am not glad to hear from MissW that she is not the only woman with this problem. However I rest happy in the notion that they are very well off and she will be taking him to the cleaners. Half of everything, including his very lucrative pension and 401K. She has been a stay at home mom who gave up her career to raise the children. He is not going to have a leg to stand on in court next month when they get there.
I spoke to her this morning, and the reason she is not telling him, is that she is waiting for mediation and court to bring the paperwork in and bring this up to a judge. Now that is something I can put my mind around. I can sit on this for a while. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:13:28 PM | ^^^She didn't sound like the perp...
Is "gave me an STD" outside of the California "No Fault" divorce definitions in court?
...I think my own vindictive, ugly side is showing a little bit!
"We don't have replacements for them."
Sounds a little like the Catholic Church scandal excuses to me...
If mediation is months off though, the cheating, little trouser snake could infect a lot more people by then... I hope she remembers enough of her humanity to let him know instead of savoring the delicious revenge and embarrassment of a court revelation --although I can see the temptation.
The rest of the world shouldn't have to suffer for his lack of common sense, though I hope his d!ck falls off!
Good Luck to your friend...
She sounds like she has her hands full.  | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 1:05:01 PM | Trix
I honestly think that the friendship is clouding your judgement. The whole time defense is, well thin at best. Maybe she was cashing in her favors on a trist rather than going out with "The Girls".
There is no defense for not informing the other party. Just excuses! | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 4:11:13 PM | I think your bitterness is clouding your judgment.
She is one very good and decent person. And for a woman as Christian as she is, she also spends time working for the AIDS project locally. I met her at a doctor's office when I was volunteering for the project, where she was home schooling 2 of her kids in the waiting room and waiting for a man who was very ill, so she could drive him home. She often brings meals to patients that are too sick to cook for themselves.
Her house is immaculate, her kids are polite and well spoken, she spends the home schooling, her kids are better at Latin than I am, she bakes her own bread, has a huge vegetable garden that she loves, and sews dresses for her daughters.
Her oldest boy just made Eagle Scout, she is active in the home school group, church and scouting for both genders. She is at church 2 nights a week and scouts 2 nights. She takes the kids and visits her mom in the nursing home 2 days a week. For arts education she puts on little shows at this nursing home with her home school group.
Last semester, it was she who ran my flash cards with me getting ready for finals, in between helping her son with his math.
Her husband was hardly ever home, which left her with the kids most of the time. The reason she did not come out, was because he was "working late" and left her to have to cancel out at the last minute. Just exactly who was going to watch her kids when she was out on these trysts?
I guess you just cannot imagine a nice person who truly lives their faith and does what she believes to be right, day in and day out.
And yeah, her husband is pretty much regarded as a giant slimeball now. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 4:19:36 PM | Bitterness- how laughable. I don't know you or her. Nor am i discounting the fact that her husband is a slimeball.
There is simply no possible justification for not telling him.
For all we know she could have been playing hide the sausage in the back during scouts. You clearly hold have this person up on a pedestal, from every thing you have said for great reasons. However none of what you said eliminates the possibility of her getting some love and comfort on the side, too ease the pain of a loveless marriage.
I guess you cannot imagine someone you hold in such high regard as being human. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 5:22:22 PM | For all we know she could have been playing hide the sausage in the back during scouts. You clearly hold have this person up on a pedestal, from every thing you have said for great reasons. However none of what you said eliminates the possibility of her getting some love and comfort on the side, too ease the pain of a loveless marriage
Someone sounds like they have issues. Sorry sketchness, but you are muddying the water with superfluous nonsense. Her morals were brought up only to question whether she should feel an obligation to inform said Slimeball that he may be carrying/spreading a disease. Not how he/she got it.
Here Fido....woof, woof. | |
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| A moral dilemma
Posted: 5/30/2008 5:45:06 PM | >>>Someone sounds like they have issues. Sorry sketchness, but you are muddying the water with superfluous nonsense. Her morals were brought up only to question whether she should feel an obligation to inform said Slimeball that he may be carrying/spreading a disease. Not how he/she got it.<<<<
Me issues are you kidding I am the perfect human. LMAO
Seriously, though we can talk about what a great person someone is all we want. It still does not broach the actual question should she tell him or not? My opinion is that she should tell him, regardless. Because it is the right thing to do. | |
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