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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:18:26 PM | In todays world, it is often noted that there are people who are perpetually single. These people, guys and girls, seem to have it all. Looks, income, assets, friends and all, yet, they have no dates and no relationships to speak of. So what gives? In comparison, there are those who appear to be undateable, definitely not relationship material, who are in relationships and happy as can be, they don’t take physical care of themselves, no jobs, no assets, no incomes, horrid lives filled with drama, yet they are in secure loving relationships.
As I read through the different forum topics, I see people complaining of lack of response to e-mails, not getting past first couple emails, first phone call, first meet. Then, I go to the Success Stories forum, and I see tons of people who have found what they wanted. They have entered into loving committed relationships with others from this site, and they are not considered gods/goddesses by any stretch of the imagination. Rather, they are ordinary people. Some physically attractive by anyone's standards, others are not. But, they have managed to pull it off.
Then I see people on here who appear to be God's gift to the opposite gender, male and female, complaining of horrid first dates, getting text messages of peoples genitals via cell phone, posting threads complaining, making posts of how mean/bitter/rude/inconsiderate others are. Some even swearing they are giving up on dating forever.
Then I see threads/posts by people talking about how great their success is. I have had the good fortune to talk to people of both genders/mindsets who 100% believe their position is gospel. They will/have found someone or they will never find someone. Then, being a psychology student, I obviously begin to look at the different types of mindsets each has and compare them. This is the analytical part of my mind at work, and I begin to notice similarities within each mindset.
There does appear to be a pheromone at work with those who are successful, and at the same time this pheromone, for lack of a better word, is working against others. It seems this pheromone is confidence and it has a huge effect on how people think and act. Is this what we mean when we say an alpha male? It seems that women as a whole are begging (maybe a poor choice of words there) for confident men to sweep them off their feet, while many men are just sitting back waiting for a woman to make all the moves. Often, the men are looking for a confident woman to walk in with a sign on her that says I Like You before they will make any move.
Now, please keep in mind, there is a difference between confidence, and c0ckiness/arrogance. Many will call it a fine line. But to me, a confident guy does not need to brag about his successes, a c0cky/arrogant man will. A confident guy will offer to help others be successful, a c0cky/arrogant guy will only work to keep all others down in an effort to hide his lack of confidence. This is not about those individuals, although they too could learn from this.
So, if confidence is a pheromone, the pheromone of chemical attraction, and it can be taught, then why are so many fighting the opportunity to learn it? Otherwise, if confidence is the only reason you are not getting dates and eventually into the relationship you want, why not start being confident in who you are and just taking advantage of all there is out there? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:26:42 PM | Absolutely can be..I found myself attracted to a man that I had never seen a picture of and had not even read his profile by the way he carried himself in the forums...
Confidence is something NG's lack (Nice guys, in case you did not know).
Confidence is sexy, arrogance or cocky is not. Some men don't seem to get the difference.
NG's are the ones that start threads whining about how they can't get emails, dates, etc. Those with confidence don't feel the need to whine. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:37:07 PM | Men are suppose to be alpha males, but some women insist they'll take that role. Two alpha's don't mix for sure.
Confidence...yes, but so much more is needed don't you think? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:39:27 PM | Is it the pheromone? Sure it is, but it can also be used as a tool; an excuse to pick the other person apart until it gets to the ponit you don't want to be with them anymore. There is confidence, but there is also over confidence.
I'm confident in the fact I know what I'm looking for, what I can bring to a relationship, and if someone doesn't like me for who I am then we weren't meant to be. But maintain confidence is the tricky part. It's easy to "get lost" in someone you're really into and forget to maintain the values within yourself that helped bring that person to you in the first place.
Your last sentence is somewhat interseting :
"why not start being confident in who you are and just taking advantage of all there is out there?"
Why use confidence to "take advantage" of another human being? Sure get a better deal on a car or plasma tv, but using confidence as an advantage in the dating world would ellude to the fact you're better than everyone else before you even met them.
So let me say that there has to be balance along with confidence. Knowing and loving who you are, but also knowing and loving who you aren't. Are you confident enough to be vulnerble when you need to be?
Just my thoughts.
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:40:20 PM | | Pheromones play a big role in intial attraction... Confidence takes it further. You might have pheromones that are just bouncing all over the place, but if the person has lacking or no confidence, they fade quickly.. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:45:20 PM |
In comparison, there are those who appear to be undateable, definitely not relationship material, who are in relationships and happy as can be, they don’t take physical care of themselves, no jobs, no assets, no incomes, horrid lives filled with drama, yet they are in secure loving relationships.
This kind of counteracts your theory. The things you speak of here are typically signs of codependency and enabling which is usually indicative of one (or both) individuals lacking in confidence. These people usually keep partners around through fear, pity, etc.
I like the idea behind the confidence thing, but meh... it has nothing to do with how much success one will have in finding relationships, it is merely one of many attraction factors. It's not a factor that is attractive to everyone. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:54:24 PM | Your last sentence is somewhat interseting :
"why not start being confident in who you are and just taking advantage of all there is out there?"
Why use confidence to "take advantage" of another human being? Sure get a better deal on a car or plasma tv, but using confidence as an advantage in the dating world would ellude to the fact you're better than everyone else before you even met them.
To make it clear, you absolutely misunderstood "take advantage". When I referred to taking advantage of all that is out there, I refer to taking advantage of opportunities to work on your confidence. Absolutely nothing to do with people whatsoever.
This kind of counteracts your theory. The things you speak of here are typically signs of codependency and enabling which is usually indicative of one (or both) individuals lacking in confidence. These people usually keep partners around through fear, pity, etc.
I expected this to be pointed out when posting this OP. Yes, they are often signs of very negative behaviours. This OP contained extreme examples to highlight the point being made. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:00:57 PM | That's a huge factor for sure, but it's rather more complicated then that!
Some people are simply not physically attractive to much of the opposite sex.
There is much documented research on the effect of height and various other
physical dimensions.
Then, many people lack even basic relationship skills, especially when
it comes to matters of romance.
Many don't dress in a manner that is attractive!
Then there is of course a huge host of compatibility issues. Many people
have put themselves or find themselves in situations and circumstances
that are less then attractive to others.
Some are plagued by geography.
The list goes on and on! | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:51:10 PM | Actually, Vancer, I have been single for over 2 1/2 years now, and have been quite happy that way... Only recently, have I started considering entering a monogamous relationship again.
The OP wasn't really about me, though. It was an interesting topic, to me at least and in email discussion as well, and evolved from personal observations and experiences. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:01:05 PM | I was only just seeing if you did, as I'm thinking the first group of people you were wondering about, are partly made up of people who have everything and are quite happy with just lots of friends as you have been in your life. They aren't relationship unworthy, but they aren't requiring a relationship to feel worthy either.
It's a state of mind I sometimes think not everyone is familiar with, but since you've shared it, I understand now that you can relate to it. I guess it's best described as when someone is very confident in who they are and they don't see being single as being less than adequate.
As to how the other group you mentioned get relationships, I'm thinking it's confidence on their part and desperation on the person they are currently seeing. I could be wrong though, and it's kind of a cynical way of me thinking about it, but it would make sense.  | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:05:17 PM | | I think instead of confidence, I would rather associate it more with being emotionally stable or at peace, relaxed. Confidence might arise out of being peaceful but I know some confident people that aren't very stable or relaxed. Having a high emotional IQ helps you look at dating from a different perspective, perhaps in an analytical fashion like yourself, for example. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:35:29 PM | Also silver calla, I think the last paragraph of your OP is about the people who are more capable of managing to make what's around them work in their favour, not only for the betterment of themselves but also for whomever is around them.
It's a very attractive quality indeed, and you might find it curious that it's also a behaviour paralleled in nature, right down to elemental interactions even.
When interactions between elements relate those elements into a whole capable of allowing greater conservation and use of all elements involved, the whole will last longer and actually become further attractive to other elemental interactions, even ones that were not attracted to each individual element on their own.
There's power in exploring that law of attraction. 
Someone else on these forums mentioned it's not really a secret at all, it's just that most people haven't been in the situation that allowed them to explore why things work and why they don't, from a more larger and distant perspective. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:47:11 PM |
I expected this to be pointed out when posting this OP. Yes, they are often signs of very negative behaviours. This OP contained extreme examples to highlight the point being made.
What point? I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but:
So, if confidence is a pheromone, the pheromone of chemical attraction, and it can be taught, then why are so many fighting the opportunity to learn it? Otherwise, if confidence is the only reason you are not getting dates and eventually into the relationship you want, why not start being confident in who you are and just taking advantage of all there is out there?
It appears as though you are saying that confidence is the catalyst to finding the dates or relationship we want. So if you are also saying that the people you see having the most success at dating and finding relationships are co-dependents and enablers, how then is it that you believe confidence is THE pheromone? Obviously it's not, otherwise none of these people would be having the success you speak of. And whether any of us think they're healthy or not, those may just be the relationships those people want.
So I don't really see the point to saying, "I think confidence is like this super-power," just to turn around and say, "The people without this super-power seem to have at least as much success, if not more, when it comes to finding a long term partner." So perhaps you could further elaborate on the point that was trying to be conveyed, because I'm obviously missing it. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:01:14 PM | Well, the original post certainly makes confidence seem like the most important thing a guy can have going for him, but in response to the subject-question: I've never picked up on its particular scent; I guess it's kind of a strong masculine muskiness.
I don't find confidence attractive because I don't find it endearing or relatable. I may not find insecurity attractive when it comes out as whining or aggression, but when it's just plain old-fashioned self-doubt? I find that both endearing and relatable.
Confidence might get your foot in the door, but I don't think it gives you an invitation to stay. The things that attract people initially are rarely the same things that make them want to stick around.
I think a lot of hogwash is slung on the subject of confidence anyway. Unfounded confidence is arrogance or delusion, right? So a confident person must have the qualities/talents/looks to back up his attitude, right? Okay. Well, I don't understand why confidence is this evanescent thing that people get caught up in. A confident person is a person worthy of his self-confidence; why isn't it his worthiness that's attractive? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:21:20 PM | Molesworth maybe you are referring to a type of confidence that is self-serving, and that is not necessarily an attractive trait.
When a person's securities are merited, and they are capable of accepting their flaws without getting upset, then that is confidence too. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:33:28 PM | | Vancer, my whole last paragraph was about confidence being a security based on worthiness of that security (i.e., merited security). I wasn't talking about self-serving confidence, just confidence. It's not a universal aphrodisiac even if it's awfully nice; it does nothing for me. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:54:04 PM | | I think I understand now. You find shyness endearing when it has a genuine/modest person behind it. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/30/2008 11:33:50 PM |
Mr B, it’s often noted by “Nice Guys” on these forums how some guy who is horrible has the girl while they are left sitting at home on Friday night alone, no matter how great of a guy they are to her. We all refer to them as NG’s on the threads, I’m sure you know this. These guys consistently make comments about how they can’t take a chance, they can’t make the move because of whatever reason….
Then there are guys on the same threads who are getting emails, dates and such, who I notice are very confident in their posts, and it seems in their lives. I have talked to a few of them. One of them didn’t even have a picture up, and I found him extremely confident and relaxed. This guy did not push for a phone number or email/messenger or anything. He was content to just chat on the system IM and let me be myself. Suddenly I found myself wondering what it was about him, and that is when I started to notice the confidence factor.
I was reading his forum posts, and those of others out of curiosity. I noticed he had a large group of followers and wasn’t afraid to speak his mind. I even noticed him trying to help some out who were complaining of not getting responses. It then began to dawn on me that confidence might actually be the key to dating. While not the end all, be all of it, but definitely a very important part of it. Then I began to think what I, as a person and a woman, want in a partner, and I realized that confidence was actually the number one item. And as I looked over past dates and relationships, I realized the guys that I was most strongly attracted to, were in fact confident, not arrogant.
Now, while there are co-dependent individuals out there who might stay in a relationship out of fear of being single, neediness, or what not. Not all individuals who lack income/assets/looks/physical attractiveness are people who lack confidence. Many times you will hear someone who is overweight say she is confident in who she is and comfortable with herself. Or someone who is temporarily out of work who is unaffected in confidence by that. Co-dependent/needy individuals are often defined by their situation and surroundings in life. Confident people are not defined in this manner. Instead they are defined by themselves, the things they stand for, ie principles, and you will find them compassionate and empathetic, yet unwavering.
An arrogant person often sees the need to flaunt themselves to the world, profession, belongings, looks or what not. A confident person is humble and comprehends humility, yet uses their skills/knowledge when it’s called upon to do what is needed to be done, and does not seek approval or praise. It’s like the country song about Thunder and Lightning. Arrogant individuals will stand around talking forever about how they can do something, like thunder rolling through. A confident person will just step up, fix the problem and not need so much as a thanks. In and out like lightning, they just get the job done (I’m sure you will have something to say about that. LOL!!)
There is no double talk here, as we all know that many times co-dependent people will find other co-dependent individuals and attach themselves like Saran Wrap to a nudist colony, they simply know no better. But, what we are talking about here is how confidence is a pheromone, or how it could be a pheromone. In online dating we do not have face to face contact as the initial means to decide if we want to date someone, so we rely on pictures and written words. But this time, I found a person who did not even have a picture up, from only written words to be the most attractive guy on the site to me, all based upon his confidence.
So again, is confidence a pheromone? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:27:18 AM | Molesworth, I totally see what you're saying. Not everybody is attracted to the same things or has the same perspectives, obviously. I did not intend to suggest in the OP that everybody should be attracted to confidence.
And absolutely not, confidence alone is not the only factor that will keep a relationship going. But it is an important factor for many people.
But I'm just curious on your perspective on this, so you do not see self-confidence as being anything other than merited confidence? The first description, I understand what you meant after seeing your second post, but I was not talking about confidence from material things at all, I mean self-confidence, which I do believe comes from the individual, and not from their circumstances.
Vancer, the points you made are interesting. So, in your example, applying the logic of the law of attraction to the idea of confidence as a tool for the betterment of others and the self, is the point you are making that it is resulting in the continued betterment of the whole by the continuous positive action? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:40:32 AM |
it’s often noted by “Nice Guys” on these forums how some guy who is horrible has the girl while they are left sitting at home on Friday night alone, no matter how great of a guy they are to her.
True dat!
Many times you will hear someone who is overweight say she is confident in who she is and comfortable with herself.
In far too many cases it's all window dressing. You'll know how truthful such people are by simply disagreeing with them once. If they're truly confident, they'll discuss. If they aren't... kneejerk defense mechanisms kick in faster than you can say "I".
So again, is confidence a pheromone?
To some people it might be. I'm sorry... I'm not trying to be arguementative, but this is what I'm talking about:
But this time, I found a person who did not even have a picture up, from only written words to be the most attractive guy on the site to me, all based upon his confidence.
Confidence is attractive to you, but to those lacking confidence it's more of a repellent than a pheromone. That's why abusees always seem to find abusers even without the word "Sucker" tattooed on their foreheads.
I could be wrong, but if I understand what you're getting at, you're suggesting that people should try exuding more confidence in an effort to attract better partners. That would change who is attracted to them. However, does it change who they're attracted to? If they've simply changed who's attracted to them and nothing has changed as far as what they're looking for, it's like using a wooden duck decoy to go deer hunting. You're sitting up in your tree watching all the mallards fly in and you're wondering, "Where are the white tails at?" | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 8:02:16 AM |
Men are suppose to be alpha males, but some women insist they'll take that role. Two alpha's don't mix for sure.
Some women have HAD to take on that role out of necessity. Those of us who are single moms with no support from former husbands, who have all the responsibility of raising a family, paying the bills, sending kids to college, and not complaining about it etc. don't have the luxury of being anything less than that. It's very difficult to "turn off" that part of our personalities once that trait is established. Is it natural? I'm not sure anymore. A gentleman I met online recently told me that my confidence was attractive. He's the first to say that. Of course HIS confidence is high as well and I'm having a great time chatting with him. Will it go anywhere besides here online? I have no idea. He lives across the country from me and only time will tell. Do I WANT an alpha male? I want a partner...someone who is a good match for me. Confidence is very attractive. Arrogance is NOT, I agree. What I find interesting is the amount of men who SAY they want a confident, independant woman but when presented with one...back off.
Would I want to lose my confidence in order to "catch" a man? Absolutely NOT! I just have to accept that this trait has become part of my personality and it's an attribute not a flaw. It wasn't always this way...it's something I had to learn to develop. Do I feel the need to always be in control? NOPE...I would LOVE it if someone else took the reigns every so often. Not ALL the time, but the reigns are nice to share...and it's kind of exciting to trust someone else to lead you. Eventually, it will all work out. How? I have no idea...it's a mystery.
Confidence...yes, but so much more is needed don't you think?
you said a mouthful brother. MUCH more is needed. Humor, intelligence, the ability to get beyond sticky situations in life, attraction, financial compatibility, common values, social compatibility, common long term goals, did I say humor? Just to name a few...it's amazing we can ever find ANYONE! But again...I'm forever hopeful. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 8:25:21 AM | Obviously you're talking about TDZ. TDZ, while he did try and help nice guys, doesn't have a clue as to why they are the way they are. And teasing and berating them, which he did sometimes, was not the best way to go about it. Witness the hatred some of these guys have for him.
And BTW, why is he banned? Nobody has been able to tell me why.
Also notice that angelaisthegreatest is not around as well. What happened to her? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 9:40:38 AM |
Obviously you're talking about TDZ. TDZ,
who id TDZ? Some of us haven't been around as long as others. Oh while I'm at it...what does OP mean? I see that a lot too.
Regarding nice guys. I like nice guys...nice guys are ... well... nice! And to all those nice guys out there who have no confidence...we wouldn't be chatting with you if we didn't find you attractive on some level...so feel GOOD about that and about yourself. Maybe read some personal growth books...take a seminar. Confidence is something you are born with...and then most of us lose along the way depending on how beat up we feel by others...OR how little social interaction we've had. I'm raising a son and daughter (16 year old twins). I keep telling my son I'm raising a Man...which is hard for me becaue I'm NOT one! Last night we went to the drive in with a bunch of people from my movie meet up group. He was horribly shy, you could tell by his posture but he "personed up" and started engaging in the meet and greet game and found them to be nice, fun people. My daughter stayed with the car and by herself most of the time until the movie started then she came and sat with the group. They are in that awkward teenage time, so I cut them a lot of slack but the more I get them out with people they don't know, the more opportunity they have to interact and test their social skills. IMHO I think that a LOT...and I mean a LOT of the men here online spend MOST of their time online and have great bravado here, but not in real life. Just my opinion and experience. Nice guys are great...mean people suck...you can have confidence in knowing THAT!
And before I"m jumped all over....I know there are women who like jerks...maybe their dad was a jerk and that's all they know love is. They will either grow out of that phase, or not. But while they are IN that phase...you don't want them. They may be cute, and sexy etc, but they aren't ready for you. Nice guys are the prize at the end of the day. But confidence is reassuring...as women, we want to know you will be there for us. If you can't be there for yourself, what chance do you have in standing up to a bully for us? | |
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