| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:23:27 PM |
A US marine in Iraq has been removed from duty following claims that he handed out coins inscribed with biblical verses in Arabic. Residents in Falluja had complained that the coins were being distributed at a checkpoint, the US military said.
US troops are forbidden from proselytising any religion.
The case comes a week after US President George Bush made a personal apology over a US soldier in Iraq shot holes into a version of the Koran.
In the Falluja incident, a military statement said a service member had been discharged "amid concerns from Falluja's citizens regarding reports of inappropriate conduct". A report from McClatchy News Service carried a photo of a silver coin it said had been distributed in the Iraqi city.
Written in Arabic script on one side of the coin were the words: "Where will you spend eternity?" On the other side, the news service said there was a Bible verse referring to Jesus: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16."
Military spokesman Mike Isho told McClatchy that marines at the western gate in Falluja had been searched following a report about the coins. One man found with the coins was reassigned and would no longer be working in the central Anbar province, he said.
The military said coalition forces were prohibited from "proselytising any religion, faith or practices, and our troops are trained on those guidelines before they deploy". It is still investigating the incident and says "appropriate action will be taken" if claims about the coins are substantiated.
WTF was the idiot thinking? | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:59:54 AM |
*- I'd like to know myself. And as this was the only thread of it's type, voting to have it removed as "redundant" certainly sends up a red flag for me. Certain individuals...and keep in mind the moderators can see exactly WHO you are and how you are voting on thread deletion, are in danger of losing your voting privileges for abuse of that privilege. It is meant to be a community self monitoring tool. It is NOT meant to be a tool to allow you to club people over the head for your partisan politics or jingoism. If you cannot exercise a little self control and judgement in how you exercise your vote to delete ability, that ability will be removed from you and you will be given rounded plastic scissors, crayons and a sippy cup so you can't hurt yourself and others. I trust that is clear. - TheMadFiddler* | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:42:53 PM | ~ It's all news to me. ~
It's my sincere belief that clergy that practice politics for the pulpit should be tared and feathered and the church loss it tax exempt status.
I believe any agent of arms of government that singles out and openly supports one faith ~ is equally in error and subject to correction. ~
There is ways to reach the Iraq~ people with "Jesus" ~ but it must require off duty and out of uniform engagement of soliders or civilians.
My feeling of seperation of church and state run high ~ dance | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:50:39 PM | | Hey, if anyones giving coins away, can I have some, preferably British, and relatively high value...... | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:03:38 PM | ummmm he was thinking that his god is bigger than their god.......see that's the deal with a holy war. When you have the RIGHT god on 'your side' then all the pagans in the universe are going to hell cuz they're not SAVED and you are.....see? So THEN (are you following this power point, dear?) we get to KILL them cuz our god says it's ok. Because our god's gonna reward us with.....well wait this Marine guy doesn't even get the 8 squillion virgins.......
This article makes me shudder to think of the extent of this person's stupidity or perhaps a bit more graciously, incredible grasp of the naive. Ohhh dearrr.....can't he just come on home and go around and knock on people's doors like all the rest of those wonderful folks? | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:24:28 PM |
The military said coalition forces were prohibited from "proselytising any religion, faith or practices, and our troops are trained on those guidelines before they deploy". It is still investigating the incident and says "appropriate action will be taken" if claims about the coins are substantiated.
If this is found to be true this Marine needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the UMCJ AND anyone who was found to be working in collision with him, (financing the coins, ordering them, sending them to the marine) needs to also be made very aware of the heighten tensions such actions brought about.
Knowing how Muslim countries feel about Christian proselytising, and to still do this, in those circumstance, putting his fellow Military members in even more danger for the chance to spread Christianity,, that makes him as nuts as the militany Islamists. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:02:46 PM |
Let me just say that I was the one who originally voted to remove it as redundant as this topic was covered in another thread. If you'll refer yourself to message #56 on http://forums.plentyoffish.com/9990973datingPostpage3.aspx, you'll see this exact story was posted. I apologize if this was not the intended meaning of the rules, but that was my interpretation of the rules.
ezzee, you don't have anything to worry about.
While this thread topic was mentioned in another thread, it is a seperate news story itself and is worthy of its own discussion. There was no other discussion of this specific story in existence and therefore it was not specifically redundant. However, you were, obviously voting in at least the spirit of interpreting the rules...there are others - and as I noted they know who they are - who in a series of threads involving US politics and foreign policy, have been using their "vote to delete" ability in a rather partisan fashion to simply quash discussion of subjects they don't like.
That will not be tolerated any more than it would be from the other side. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 6/2/2008 3:33:56 AM | While this story of a particular Marine makes most of us shake our heads  it is but one tale of a disturbing coziness between the U.S. military and Christian evangelism.
DOD Stops Plan to Send Christian Video Game to Troops in Iraq
August 15, 2007 11:19 AM
Anna Schecter Reports:
Plans by a Christian group to send an evangelical video game to U.S. troops in Iraq were abruptly halted yesterday by the Department of Defense after ABC News inquired about the program.
Operation Start Up (OSU) Tour, an evangelical entertainment troupe that actively proselytizes among soldiers, will not be sending the "apocryphal" video game in care packages as planned, according to the department.
"Left Behind: Eternal Forces" was inspired by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins' best-selling book series about the battle of Armageddon, in which believers of Jesus Christ fight the Antichrist.
The game has inspired controversy among freedom of religion advocates since it was released last year.
"It's a horrible game," said the Rev. Timothy Simpson of the Christians Alliance for Progress. "You either kill or co[n]vert the other side. This is exactly what the Osama bin Ladens of the world have portrayed us."
Troy Lyndon, the producer of the game, said the game's "warfare" is not violent, and that it emphasizes "spiritual battles" over fighting with guns. The game gives incentives to recruit believers instead of killing the forces of the Antichrist, according to Lyndon.
Lyndon added, "There is no forcible conversion to Christianity, and killing is never an objective in any of the 40 missions in the game."
...
To view the entire article:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/08/dod-stops-plan-.html
More about the group from Aug. 16, 2007 Marine Corps Times online article:
...
Operation Straight Up is an official member of the Defense Department initiative “America Supports You,” as one of more than 250 home-front groups that have joined the effort to support troops by sending letters, e-mails and care packages, and by giving assistance to military families, including the wounded and their families.
On Aug. 15, the OSU Web site continued to report that the group is raising money to send “Freedom Packets” to troops in Iraq — but it has removed any reference to the “Left Behind” video game. Those packages were also to include a Gideon’s pocket-sized New Testament, and the book “More than a Carpenter,” by Josh McDowell, printed in English and translated into Arabic.
The OSU motto on its site is: “Until Every Soldier Hears the Truth.” The site encourages donors to give to the nonprofit foundation, to make “an enormous difference in the lives of thousands of lost men, women, and children.”
“Support our sons and daughters in the military by introducing them to the eternal salvation that can only come from God,” the statement continues.
OSU is active in the military in other ways. It sends entertainment troupes with the likes of actor Stephen Baldwin, the Flying Wallendas, pro football and wrestling stars, and others to perform free for military audiences. At the shows, they invite troops to attend events a week later called “Tough-Man Meetings,” described as “boot camps for the soul.”
“These meetings are all about training to live life to the fullest, God’s way,” the Web site states. “Some would call it discipleship.”
Many of the personalities sent out by the group “speak at these events,” according to the Web site. It notes that the group has performed at Fort Hood, Texas; Fort Bragg, N.C.; and at the Pentagon. The Fort Hood concert was held off-base in Killeen.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and, PLEASE take a look at this YouTube piece about Campus Crusade at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kbpBVyGYBE
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 6/2/2008 8:22:09 AM | What an idiot.
Handing out Christian-themed coins in a Muslim country.
And people wonder why we are losing in Iraq | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:36:22 AM |
If this is found to be true this Marine needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the UMCJ AND anyone who was found to be working in collision with him, (financing the coins, ordering them, sending them to the marine) needs to also be made very aware of the heighten tensions such actions brought about.
They probably don't care.
They will find another idiot to do their dirty work. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 6/8/2008 5:27:20 AM | Oh man! There I was, following a link somewhere else, where someone was citing "evidence" in an argument over Barack Obama's purported evil African/Muslim/Communist/etc connections. This link is to World Net Daily. Out of curiosity I began to look around the site--pretty creepy--and I found this story on our coin-handling Marine. Oh man.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66399
Gates hears worries about restricting Christians
Humanitarian group writes Secretary of Defense about Fallujah soldier's case
Posted: June 07, 2008
12:50 am Eastern
A humanitarian organization has raised the issue of a Christian soldier's rights and responsibilities to just short of the White House, telling Secretary of Defense Robert Gates that the soldier's actions in handing out coins bearing a Christian message "did not warrant the harsh punishment" that was imposed. ...
...officials with Christian Freedom International say they have written to Gates about the case, protesting the harsh retaliation for the soldier's expression of his faith.
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The incident sparked outrage among local residents as well as Sunni leaders, who met with U.S. officials to demand "the harshest punishment" possible for those who were responsible for the coin distribution.
CNN has reported the U.S. military removed the soldier from duty.
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A McClatchy News report quoted "Anad," who told of being handed the coin as he entered Fallujah.
"They are trying to convert us to Christianity," Anad, a Sunni Muslim, said.
Sheik Mohammed Amin Abdel Hadi, who heads the group overseeing Sunni places of worship, demanded the Marines stop.
"The occupier is repeatedly trespassing on God and his religion," Omar Delli, 23, told McClatchy. "Now the occupier is planting seeds of strife between the Muslims and Christians. We demand the government in Fallujah have a new demonstration to let the occupier know that these things are humiliating Islam and the Quran."
What part of "sparked outrage among local residents as well as Sunni leaders" do these morons not understand?
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:05:54 AM |
US troops are forbidden from proselytising any religion.
And yet our female troops have to dress according to local custom when the leave the base for public places.And any locals who work on base are provided ample time and place for their prayers.Something smells here.....
Perhaps this Marine should be punished as long as this is proven that he disobeyed a given directive.Maybe it's time we stopped being all accomidating. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 2:22:05 PM | As part of the indoctrination process all soldiers, sailors, airman and marines go through before entering this theater, they (we) are counciled in very clear terms about such things. Sure, this marine may have been sleeping during the session or may even have missed the session altogther for some reason, but that does not excuse his actions. The military has an effective Department of Redundancy Department, and messages like that are conveyed over and over, ad infinitum. He knew he was doing wrong.
Punish him? Sure. But in accordance with the UCMJ, no more, no less.
(The UCMJ is the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is the set or laws and regulations that govern conduct in the military, and punishment for misconduct.) | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:20:51 PM |
And yet our female troops have to dress according to local custom when the leave the base for public places.And any locals who work on base are provided ample time and place for their prayers.Something smells here.....
The females are just showing respect of local custom, they aren't preaching a bunch of religious hooey. How do you think things would be in Iraq or Afghanistan if the US told the locals who work on Base to stop praying?
How about if we get a bunch of muslims to send korans to all those muppets that buy into the 700 club? How do you think that would go over?  | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:37:45 PM | If you ask me ... passing out money with "In God We Trust" on it ... is already wrong. But then, I think it's wrong for us to have that on the money here. 
They might have just been p!ssed that it was "Monopoly" money ... and they couldn't spend it?
On the other hand ... I bet they still don't have any problem spending any "REAL" American money they get their hands on.
To a couple of posts below:
And its adherents are commanded to spread the faith by any means necessary ... I'd like to see that in writing. I have worked side by side with these people and not once did they try to preach their beliefs to me or convert me. I think you are mixing things up. It's the Christians that are out there trying to shove their religious beliefs down others' throats ...
we are a christian natian, theme solders are heros for tryign to save some of theme people from hell First of all ... we are NOT a "christian nation" ... we are a nation of a vast array of different beliefs. But if we were a so-called "Christian" nation, then I guess I can freely say that it is the "Christians" that go in and invade sovereign nations.
The Muslims did not invade our nation, we invaded theirs. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:38:47 PM | Just remember, folks, that Islam is NOT just a religion....it is both a religious practice and a form of religious government. And its adherents are commanded to spread the faith by any means necessary, including employing the practice of deception when militarily/politically weak in a country. When local Sheiks believe it is in their advantage to be more agressive, it usually leads to all out religious war as the faithful demand either Submission (the actual meaning of the word, Islam) or conversion. In Islam, it is perfectly acceptable to "convert" at swordpoint, and have this be considered a valid conversion. Despite the anti Christian opinions of my fellow posters, I strongly suspect that they wouldn't much care for Sharia Law....and that suddenly, Christians would seem awfully light handed and gentle. To reiterate: Its not just local custom that our female troops must kowtow too, its to religious/political demands. And any sign of submission to Islam is to signal your willing weakness and acceptance that their faith/ political system is superior to your own.
The west is in a great deal of trouble, and I think Limey over in Britian (with a name like that, he should be!) will be wondering what the hell happened to his country before long.
In a religious war, it really IS my God is better than your God.
And in post-Christian Europe and America, the Muslim is the only one with a God left to worship....and that makes him stronger than you can possibly imagine.
The Marine who handed out coins is braver and more spiritually in tune with his faith than any of the posters have given him credit for. Possibly not the smartest cookie in the world, but certainly brave. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:42:46 PM | | He should've known better, but what can you do. Its a shame that his actions will probably irreparably damage his military career and delay any future promotions. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:49:09 PM | (What part of "sparked outrage among local residents as well as Sunni leaders" do these morons not understand?/)
As usual...a little troop denigration to go with your freedom.
I'm sorry....when do we have an example of overjoyed and pleased local Muslims? I'd look forward to it if the media ever gave an example of this. Christains have our various holidays, all of which are enjoyed peaceably. In the US, Muslims seem to get along just fine with everyone else...because they know they are in a real minority. But this getting along with others nicely thing doesn't seem to hold true everywhere else. All around the world, Hindus, Jews, Atheists, Confucians, Tree Huggerists, etc... all manage to celebrate their various holidays without blowing anyone up. When some people call this the "Religion of Perpetual Outrage"....I think there might just be a point to it.
A sharp one.
Personally, I'd rather deal with a TV preacher with bad hair and dimples than angry Omar with an AK47 any day. | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:01:08 PM |
Personally, I'd rather deal with a TV preacher with bad hair and dimples than angry Omar with an AK47 any day.
I'll take Omar & his AK over any of those asshat TV envangelists. At least with Omar you get brutal honesty..... & can deal with it appropriately | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:43:06 PM |
*- Keep the flamebait, offtopic nonsense and other junk off the thread. As to speculations about the nature of Islam, unless mainstream citations are provided to back up some of these claims, posters are advised that they are treading close to violations of the Terms Of Service/Code of Conduct by making blanket unfounded generalizations about a faith/cultural group. Keep it on point and factual or see your posting rights removed...the PoF Forums are not a soapbox for your personal agendas. -TheMadFiddler-* | |
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| US marine removed over coin claim
Posted: 8/7/2008 2:58:50 AM | I vaguely remember this war started because Sadam had WMD, oops that wasn't true. Then it was because of his links to Al Qayeeda, ooops not true either. So then it became a war to liberate the people of Iraq from an evil dictator not convert them. The same people this marine is trying to convert to christianity which makes it a crusade now (at least for him I guess).
In a religious war, it really IS my God is better than your God. Two problems with this quote the first being this was not a religious war - if it was you haven't even started winning yet, how many converts so far? How come the christians living there in peace before the war had to leave? What is the definition of victory in this war?
The second should be obvious The God of the Christians, the Jews and the Muslims is the same god so how can my god be stronger than your god in this case?
I do agree that this soldier was stupid though I question his bravery if he was brave he would be on his own in the market square proselitizing and giving out those coins when out of uniform Not sneaking around a checkpoint with all his buddies fully armed to back him up if he got into trouble. | |
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