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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/3/2008 9:14:08 PM | So I picked up this book yesterday, called Selling Sickness. It's a lengthy essay about the pharmaceuticul industry using their influence in medical science to widen the boundaries that define illness. This means that they're drawing on our fears, creating new illnesses, expanding upon old ones, turning mild problems into serious ones, and common complaints into medical conditions.
Some examples given are adult ADD, menopause, social anxiety disorder, sexual dysfunction, and so on. These are things, that, 30 years ago, were mild concerns. Now, they've become conditions that require prescription drugs to "fix".
Coincidentally, I read an article today on the "big bad outbreaks" and what has happened to them. Sars, Mad Cow, Lyme Disease, West Nile virus, etc. What I was astonished to find was that there are major pharmaceutical companies working on a vaccine to prevent Avian Flu (H5N1) deaths, in North America. Since it first appeared, there have been 206 human deaths, worldwide, from H5N1. 108 of those deaths were in Indonesia. It seems like this is a perfect example of how drug companies are creating "necessary" drugs, for rare problems, that are hardly a blip on the radar, in the grand scheme of things.
So, while I may not be a believer, I have certainly experienced examples of this theory, on a regular basis. My question to you all, is this:
Do you feel that pharmaceuticul companies are exploiting our fears for profit, or working for the common good?
*I do realize there was another thread discussing a similar topic, but it seems to have died off pretty quickly. Thought maybe my wording might get a better response* | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/3/2008 9:43:47 PM | I think the author is using the very same tactics of promoting and profiting from fear that he/she claims the pharma companies are doing.
Our understanding of the human body has increased signficantly since the 60's, which means, that many of the illness that we couldn't treat before we can now. ED, ADD, menopause - whatever, can now all be treated - and if that means making a buck in the process - then why not?
As for your latter point, the problem is reversed - the companies are not working on drugs that are aimed at small populations of subjects because there is no money in it. That's why the gov't has to keep prodding them to do so. Bird flu is being worked on not because of the number of people that did die, but because of the potential number of people that could die. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/3/2008 10:29:32 PM | All I can say is I know drug companys have a captive influence over us via practicians.
I think people should be open to all sources of Info...EG the net, Friends,books... | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 1:31:41 AM |
All I can say is I know drug companys have a captive influence over us via practicians.
I think people should be open to all sources of Info...EG the net, Friends,books...
The problem is that "friends" as a general rule don't know shit about medicine unless they're educated in the field. Same with random people posting things on the internet, or books that are written by people who have 0 expertise. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 2:26:14 AM | In one sense it is so sad because it is a part of the dumbing down of america -- control our minds through the "education" we get and through beliefs and you control where we spend our money.
I think kevin trudeau proved it right with his example on scurvey being cured by vit C. And there are dozens of such examples. Vit D now being routinely tested in my state of MN because it is feared as linked to breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, and many minor illnesses as well. It also proves what the Bible said -- that every plant and animal is put on this planet for man's use. ( but I personally believe that reciprocates into us being the protector of the planet and its species and its environment as well -- common sense to my way of thinking)
But in the case of the avian flu it is well known that these illnesses DO cross over from animals to humans. The data shows most originated in China, actually, particularly where sanitation practices are poor. Perhaps lack of running HOT and cold water could even help significantly.
We also have to stop the cannibalization of animals in our food industry. And the un needed hormones. Even grain fed beef has brought about trillions of dollars to medical companies when an ounce of prevention is a pound of cure. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 4:19:27 AM | Do you feel that pharmaceuticul companies are exploiting our fears for profit, or working for the common good?
...Are we talking prevention or cure, ...and by "exploitation", do you mean the drug companies falsely implying, to have a product answer to a problem ...for example hot lemon drink products for cold symptoms... when there is actualy no cure!, and you can get the relief by simply taking an asprin and a beverage!? | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 5:30:03 AM | Well if you know how the ALL MIGHTY dollar works then you would know its influence on what gets approved and what does not make a major difference you our health. The motto wealth before health i believe is the saying for ppl who run the drug companies. This should go with out saying, greed is more powerful then maybe you think. If ppl will turn on their own family for mere hundreds of dollars what do you think these ppl will do for BILLIONS. I read a GREAT book recently called "Health Myths Exposed". Its a Fantastic book and i would recommend it. Here is a link for the PDF
www.health-fx.net/eBook.pdf
I believe this is just a sample of the book. If ppl are turning for DR for their daily drugs then do realize that majority of these drugs are more addictive then Heroin or even Crack. Sometimes they even have these sort of elements in the pills themselves. I will try not to make this post any longer. One more thing is alot of the studies done for these pills that lower your choles. or thin your blood or whatever else.....the tests results are never really fully put out to the public. If they were then 60%(or higher) of these pills we consume daily would not be on the market. The trials done have fixed to show the results the drug companies want you to belive. As well Your family Dr gets paid a nice some of money for writing alot of these Prescriptions for you. SOmetimes the stuff you get is still on trial and has not been fully tested so consider yourself a Guinea Pig. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 9:54:01 AM | The health care system (mainly drug companies) don't get rich keeping you healthy.
They get rich when you are SICK!!!
For the sake of profits, what do you think their true agenda is? | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 10:12:58 AM | Pharmaceutical peddlers..
Physcians are ultimately responsible to know what they are peddling.. interactions as a result of their commonly perscribed co c k tails.
Nearly everyone you talk to has a story..
Let's hear stories. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 3:22:25 PM | Why the dichotomy?
I should have thought that there was nothing particularly incompatible with simultaneously exploiting our fears for profit, AND working for the common good.
All of it is a matter of degree and description.
Take treatments for male-pattern-baldness, for example. Now, I can certainly think of, well, more **important** priorities, that are apparently less profitable, and do not involve exploiting anxieties (and vanity) for profit.
But would the world be a better place if no guy (well, no guy with the $ and the desire to spend it on that) had to go bald unless he chose to? I guess. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/4/2008 5:03:08 PM | Yer slybandit, Thats just about exactly "It"
You see people; Its all about judgment ...be a judge... Ask around ...IE..For the benefit of the meak, the weak, and the plain Dumb...If FOUR say its Good , but ONE says its Bad ...DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT ...Satistics my friend...Make a decision...You Dumb Nut! | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:21:11 PM | Okay, after reading the original post and browsing the responses thus far, here is my position on the topic.
First, the pharmaceutical companies are in business for profit and their business is to sell drugs - not sickness.
Secondly, it is a combination of the marketing of the respective drugs via educating and such the medical professionals that gets these drugs to the patient.
Thirdly, medicine has become so finitely specialized that the days of a patient being passive about the meds they are prescribed are long over.
Now, there are abuses within the process and one such example comes to mind, regarding a specific anticonvulsant drug that reportedly physicians were paid to promote for off-market non-FDA approved use. Actually, in 2004 the pharmaceutical company was fined and also assessed substantial punitive damages for their role.
However, there are also abuses at the patient level.
These are things, that, 30 years ago, were mild concerns. Now, they've become conditions that require prescription drugs to "fix".
Keep in mind that 30 years ago, life overall was much different than it is now. As technology was progressed at a rapid rate, as have the perceptually everyday life stressors substantially increased. The very conditions that the OP mentions in a slower-paced lifestyle would not be life-limiting yet in today's lifestyle environment, they can in fact be very life-limiting. Prescription drugs to treat the referenced "conditions" don't "fix" the conditions, rather, they manage them at a level that is less life-limiting.
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:48:29 PM | I went to post secondary school for pharmacy technitian and as far as I can tell it has alot to do with money. There are alot of cures out there that the drug companies dont want to let out. Like other have said already on this forum they wont make any money if your cured because you wont buy any more drugs. there are a few things that the drug companies claim are uncurable but alternative medicine can cure. Think about that now. Why do you think the health board and drung company's want to put a cap on alternative medicine? Because they wont make any money. Most doctors comming out of med school have not been trained in alternative medicine and know very little about it so they dont prescribe it. thats because the drug companies have there say in the medical schools too.
Money talks. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:48:54 PM | I"m all with angelheart3. I can't believe someone here is praising Kevin Trudeau, one of the biggest conmen on the planet.
All corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize profits. End of story. The accusation that the pharma industry is creating disease is like saying the soft drink industry is creating thirst. Remember, you can always tell your doctor that you don't feel there is a remedy for your problem. Keep on suffering and don't try the offered medication. Why should the rest of us care?
With evolving screening methods, more medications are found to have side-benefits for many other conditions. Viagra was originally a blood pressure medication, y'know. If you don't want it, don't take it. Stop ranting about people who have a disease that you don't finally having possible relief. If it doesn't work, it doesn't sell. In the US, the FDA demands overwhelming evidence for all label claims. Registration runs upward of $15 million. Would you gamble that kind of money if your molecule didn't do what you say it does? | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:51:52 PM |
Why do you think the health board and drung company's want to put a cap on alternative medicine?
Because it's a scam and doesn't work?
Can you produce for us one peer-reviewed study where alternative medicine has cured a condition where "traditional medicine" did not? | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:52:40 PM |
If it doesn't work, it doesn't sell. In the US, the FDA demands overwhelming evidence for all label claims. Registration runs upward of $15 million. Would you gamble that kind of money if your molecule didn't do what you say it does?
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:31:39 PM | Interesting responses on this one!
I myself am sort of neutral on this matter. There are certain conditions out there, that I feel are total BS. The only reason I can see for the drastic increase in diagnoses, is the money that can be made off of telling a person they are sick.
That being said, i've spent most of the last 6 months in the hospital, and have taken drugs that were imported from the US, yet to be approved in Canada, and can say that regardless of the controversy, they are truly effective. They also cost about $200 a pill.
I'm not trying to discredit the effectiveness of the drugs being released, but rather question the necessity.
10% of American males, and 4% of American females have been diagnosed with ADD. The most common symptoms of ADHD are distractibility, difficulty with concentration and focus, short term memory loss, procrastination, problems organizing ideas and belongings, tardiness, impulsivity, and weak planning and execution. Most "normal" people suffer from at least 3 or four of these things, on a regular basis. I myself can say that I run late, procrastinate, have difficulty concentrating at times, and am the least organized person I know. Somehow I get through my days without medication to control these things.
The population of the US is around 304,250,000 (I'm rounding down) This means that some 30, 425,000 people are diagnosed with ADD (Rounding down again) With the average month long prescription for Ritalin (which over 80% of those diagnosed with ADD are prescribed) running at $60 (roughly) this means that the makers of Ritalin stand to make $17, 524,800,000 (That's almost $18 billion...rounded down!) annually off of ADD. Seems hard to believe that they're not exploiting people.
For the record, the $15 million registration fee seems like pennies in comparison.
Just putting that out there. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:44:42 PM | 10% of American males, and 4% of American females have been diagnosed with ADD. The most common symptoms of ADHD are distractibility, difficulty with concentration and focus, short term memory loss, procrastination, problems organizing ideas and belongings, tardiness, impulsivity, and weak planning and execution. Most "normal" people suffer from at least 3 or four of these things, on a regular basis. I myself can say that I run late, procrastinate, have difficulty concentrating at times, and am the least organized person I know. Somehow I get through my days without medication to control these things.
Excuse me, but have you ever been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and subsequently been treated for it? If not - kindly do not go there.
For the record, my youngest daughter was off the charts ADHD and it wasn't until Ritalin was introduced at age 7 that she could learn anything, even basic language. After she started on Ritalin, she blossomed like a rose in ALL areas. I had no idea how off the charts difficult it can be (and was for her) to filter everyday environmental distractions internally until post-TBI that same vulnerability was ignited in me - her mother. I will be on Adderall the rest of my life and I thank God it's there because I cannot filter without it - takes circuit overload to unimaginable levels without it.
OP - I would highly suggest that you limit your subjective judgments to conditions you have personal, direct and/or professional experience in, rather than promote the ignorant hype propagated by people who have no clue what the h*ll they are talking about.
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 5:40:34 AM |
The accusation that the pharma industry is creating disease is like saying the soft drink industry is creating thirst
WOW is all i can really say. I mean come on have you all been spoof over and over to the point you cannot make out BS from real FACTS ????
Ok for one FDA does not call for all kinds of this or that for a pill to be put on the market. If anything its the total opposite, they do anything they can to get it to you as fast as they can even not fully put thru trials. Your family Dr is writing them up for you without them being fully examined. The money is the drive. Why would they care. Do you even realize the amount of ppl that die every single year from adverse reactions from these so called CURE ALL PILLS. Do you even know that the pill for ADD or whatever cause suicide in teens and young ppl or pretty much anyone who is taking these drugs.
Like i said before its WEALTH BEFORE HEALTH AND IF YOU THINK they have your best interest at heart then you should go get your head examined sorry to say. As for peer reviewed crap do you know that they are all funded by Drug companies. There are so many other facts showing the negative side effects on the majority of drugs right down to your friendly old aspirin that is said to be good for your heart.
So before you assume go have a nice read of Health Myths Exposed. There are many other eye opening books
Aspirin use has been shown to increase the risk of gastrointestinal bleeding. Although some enteric coated formulations of aspirin are advertised as being "gentle to the stomach", in one study enteric coating did not seem to reduce this risk. Combining aspirin with other NSAIDs has also been shown to further increase this risk. Using aspirin in combination with clopidogrel or warfarin also increases the risk of upper GI bleeding. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 6:58:17 AM |
Aspirin use has been shown to increase the risk of gastrointestinal bleeding. Although some enteric coated formulations of aspirin are advertised as being "gentle to the stomach", in one study enteric coating did not seem to reduce this risk. Combining aspirin with other NSAIDs has also been shown to further increase this risk. Using aspirin in combination with clopidogrel or warfarin also increases the risk of upper GI bleeding.
I'm curious, where do you think this information that you just provded comes from? You know... the "study" that you just cited? | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:17:43 AM | | Yup exactly what i posted it.....There are much much more side effects then this....much more and why are they not posted anywhere ??? | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:03:24 AM | They are, search engines are fickle entities.
It's funny you bring up warfarin. I was thinking about that one myself.
I have a friend who was put in great danger this past week because of a perscribed co c k tail from her doc.
It made us wonder how many have died prematurly via these blunders.
"In 1994, Wells et al (11) attempted to better categorize which medications interact with warfarin. Recognizing that extensive clinical trials into drug interactions are rarely conducted, they performed a systematic review of several databases, searching for articles reporting original data on drug interactions with warfarin.
The authors found 120 references outlining 186 reports of food or drug interactions and independently rated each article on strength of evidence for the interaction, using a complex model incorporating information such as the objectivity/purity of the data, pharmacologic plausibility, and reproducibility of the effect.
Antibiotics, cardiac medications, and drugs active on the central nervous system (eg, anti-epileptic agents) were the most common drug groups reported to potentiate the effect of warfarin.
Antibiotics are generally thought to be the most common group of drugs to interact with warfarin. (2,8,23) Indeed, antiinfectives comprise more then 25% of the medications thought to be at least possible of potentiating the effect of warfarin."
The elderly come to mind first.
Many people who have undergone surgeries, are perscribed warfarin., then pain meds
Infection afterward, is not uncommon, so antibiotics are the next action.
Viola.. c o c k tail!
I've watched a great many of them go down hill immediately.
Dementia is a big side effect of some of the brews, and of course, this distresses the families.
One day they are 'okay' the next, they don't know what year it is.
Was I rambling again?
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:52:14 AM |
OP - I would highly suggest that you limit your subjective judgments to conditions you have personal, direct and/or professional experience in, rather than promote the ignorant hype propagated by people who have no clue what the h*ll they are talking about.
I knew that was coming! I kind of thought it would come from you, as well.
It was more an observation. I find it scary that suddenly nearly 15% of Americans cannot focus without the help of medication. Again, not saying the medication isn't effective, nor am I saying that it doesn't help some people, but it seems these problems are taken way too seriously in some cases.
Not that my own medical history has anything at all to do with the topic at hand, but for the record, my doctor did tell me I presented several symptoms of adult ADD and tried to refer me. As I said before, I manage to get by without medication. Probably because my doctor was definitely pushing it, trying to pin ADD on me. Which is exactly my point.
I am not saying that there aren't cases that truly are extreme, where medication helps. (We could all use a medication to numb us, sometimes.) What I am saying, is that too often doctors are handing out that diagnosis and writing a prescription that doesn't help. Seems many children with behavioural problems suddenly have ADD, and their parents pump them full of drugs, thinking this will solve all of their problems. (Before you tell me you don't know what i'm talking about, I have family who have gone through it as well.)
I chose ADD as an example, because it is the most obvious, but hey...for kicks, and because I hit a nerve, let's try depression (and see how many people hate me for that! ha!)
Apparently 14 million Americans have been diagnosed with depression. What does it take to get a diagnosis of depression? Simple. You tell your doctor that you're depressed. Yep, that's pretty much it. "Diagnosis is based on the patient's self-reported experiences and observed behavior". The symptoms? Mood swings, sadness and loss of interest, restlessness, irritability, pessimism, difficulty thinking, remembering, concentrating and making decisions (Sound familiar? Guess they have ADD as well!)
It's been my observation that every person i've come across in my life, has felt some or most of these things, at times. Again, not trying to discredit those who feel it more intensely, or more often than others. 14 million is a mighty large number. It seems that if anyone has more than one episode of depression in their life, they are officially clinically depressed. Seems a bit harsh.
I calculated the average cost of the four most prescribed brand name meds used to treat depression (Zoloft, Paxil, Zyban, Prozac) and it works out to about $85 a month, per person. (or $1020 annually) The pharmaceutical industry racks in about $14.25 billion a year from depression. (In America, that is. Apparently depression is much less common in Canada)
I'm not trying to be offensive, but rather trying to spark discussion. I imagine i'll get many more responses about how i'm insensitive or don't know what i'm talking about, but really, i'm just putting numbers out there. I already said I was neutral on the matter. I just find it interesting. | |
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 9:42:09 AM | "(ADHD), a disorder that prevents children from being able to focus on tasks for extended periods of time, a particularly detrimental condition for school performance."
Fer fuks sake, it gets better.
Impulse control: deferred gratifcation or delayed gratification is the ability to wait in order to obtain something that one wants. This ability is usually considered to be a personality trait which is important for life success.
Daniel Goleman has suggested that it is an important component of emotional intelligence. People who lack this trait are said to need instant gratification and may suffer from poor impulse control.
Psychoanalysts have argued that people with poor impulse control suffer from "weak ego boundaries".
I say we medicate Wall Street.
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| Selling Sickness
Posted: 6/6/2008 10:20:37 AM |
I say we medicate Wall Street.
Better yet, let's propose that the pharmaceutical companies research a drug that prevents "willful blindness" and subjective, categoric judgments.
Not directed at the poster quoted.
I just love people who practice medicine without ever examining the patient, particularly when apparently they aren't licensed.
To hoop: the simple bottom line for ADD/ADHD is that the area of the brain that is impacted processes much slower than the non-ADD/ADHD brain. No two ADDers are the same. Some can strategize without meds, but that in no way diminishes those that require meds - particularly when there are other health factors impacting on the individual.
It' s on thing to speak to one's personal experience, OPoster, and quite another to categorize ALL such individuals on the exclusive basis of your own experience. Where did you say your degree was from? And where are you licensed to practice medicine?
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