| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 7:51:14 AM | Ok I have another car question, and I'm not sure how much advice I will be able to get but I'll take whatever you have to offer.
My 2001 ford focus went into the shop because of a loud squeaking noise (I've assumed it to be a bearing problem) Took it to the mechanic who said it looked like a timing belt bearing. I thought ok good he'll replace that end of story.
Of course, just like every other mechanic in the world gives me the story of: If we do this we should check the timing belt because that might be the problem, and the timing belt is connected to the water pump so we might have to replace that to, and then it could also be the pulleys, etc. Hey, let's just order the whole timing belt kit. Might as well because I charge you to put the part back in anyways, might as well replace it.
The technique they use is always fishy because the mechanics I've been to have all been the exact same way. Is it reasonable to spend $700 max price including labor on a little squeaking noise?!
I got gipped last place I went and the guy was very similar. How to know you're getting ripped off? I don't have any car guy friends available today...he says he will explain only what needs to be put in and what doesn't, but I'm worried because I always cave under pressure... | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:07:42 AM | Well, here is my thing...most cars water pumps do have to be removed to fix the timing belt and connected parts. So, it usually is best to go ahead and fix the water pump at the same time. Because what's the point of getting the TB fixed and then the water pump goes out a month later...you are out of a car AGAIN.
Here is what I do. I take it to my mechanic...he tells me what needs to be fixed and gives me a break down on price for parts and price for labor. I call and find out the prices on parts. Then I call around and find out what people are charging for labor at an hourly rate. Now, my mechanic is fair and his prices always add up for the parts and his labor charge is about half of what everyone else charges. But, then again he is also a family friend and gets all of my dad's company business.
Prior to using him though...someone tried to charge me $150.00 for a serpentine belt. I bought it myself for about $18.
If you see that the parts are cheaper...buy them yourself. And if they are a decent mechanic you could probably work with them on the price for labor.
Oh...and if you get 2nd or 3rd opinions...never tell them what the other guys have said is wrong and needs to be fixed!
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:54:11 AM | I don't think he meant timing belt. I think he meant serpentine. That's usually what the squeeking is and it doesn't cost $700 to replace the serpentine and the water pump.
Here's how to tell, go get some belt dressing at the auto parts store spray your serpentine, if the squeek goes away you need a new belt. The belt dressing makes the belt softer so it stops the squeek but the squeek means the belt is worn or not adjusted well. It should be replaced when you get a tune up.
Get more opinions, I think you're being gyped again.
The timing belt is internal to the engine and you'd probably not hear it. It does need to be replaced every 90 thousand miles or so. Because if it breaks your engine can be totaled. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:08:35 AM | | it does sound like timing wich is not internal and you should hear i am an auto tech and 700 for timing is a bit high a kit depending on if it is a stick or not is around200 water pump 80 without core....150 labor...not 700always go around until you find an honest mech.... | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:19:57 AM | Good responses folks! 
As a previous shop owner, I can, without hesitation; tell you thatmany folks are weary when going to a repair shop, especially women. Just goes to show you what kind of people are out there.
As for the timing belt and or water pump; a timing belt/chain will NOT make noise unless coming apart or the tensioner is bad. On such a new car, replacing the water pump, regardless of the other would be pointless. Unless of course you have money to burn, or NO additional labor is involved, and I seriously doubt this is the case.
Squeaking and/or squealing, as with any mechanical problem, should be dealt with in simplistic form. First, go to Autozone or Advance, and get a free opinion. Usually the belt or idler pulley, or maybe an accessory (Pwr steering pump, Alternator etc).
Many times I have sent phone calls from customers, to Advance or Autozone because I was just too swamped and couldn't get another car in the driveway!! More times than not, it was something simple.
The key to saving money and getting a fair shake is this; be crucial and investigative, as previously mentioned. Make no on the spot decisions until you have priced the part(s) yourself, and understand that most shops boost the price, even if from a junk yard. I never did, I always charged what the part cost me.
AND...If you buy the part yourself, then there will be no warranty on the job done, only on labor, and 99% of the time, in a court of law, the part will be to blame. The parts stores will only warranty the part with a new one. No other resulting damages will be held liable. (Depending on state etc I am sure, but for the most part.)
If the shop charges $10.00 more for a $20.00 belt, then buy your own. But if they charge $300.00 for parts that you could buy for $250.00 I would suggest allowing the shop to obtain parts, as they will have to warranty the entire job AND parts and any/all resulting damages incurred from a possible faulty part.
Again, use A-Zone and Advance to your benefit, for they have nothing to gain by selling you something you don't need. And again, that too is discretionary, dependent upon the individual.
The belt dressing is a good start in diagnosing and finding the problem. Even removing the belt and starting the car for only a moment will yield results pertaining to pulleys and belt(s).
And yes, timing belt/chain needs to be replaced as routine maintenance. And NO, it doesn't cost $700.00 bucks to do it.
Good Luck, and let us know if we can help further.
God Bless,
Scott. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:52:32 AM | OP- I was going to say too that the only time I've had a squealing noise under the hood was the serpentine belt.
Also...for a timing belt and water pump for my car (92 Honda Civic)...with parts AND labor it usually runs me about $275.00. But like I said...my mechanic is honest. I know here in NC a lot of places charge around $100-200 per hour of labor. When in actuality it will only take them 30 min to do something...they will still charge you for the whole hour. The highest quote I ever had for those two things was $530.00.
My tie rod broke on my car once...they were going to charge me $300.00 to fix it...then another $90.00 to align the car. I went and got the tie rod for about $30.00, my SO put it on.....so I saved a bunch of money. Took him maybe 45 minutes to do it.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 10:17:32 AM | Alright guys so I went to the mechanic, and after alot of reading and opinions...here's the breakdown
He wanted to replace:
Water Pump
Timing Belt
Ilder
Tensioner
Pullys
While he suggested strongly to replace the water pump, as it was making some noise and the bearing should be replaced, I said no - there was no leak, and from what I have read - the chances that the water pump is f*cked is pretty low. He scared me by saying get it done or come back in a cuople months maybe to have the bearings seize, break the timing belt and screw up your engine costing you thousands. I said no, but I'll look into it at a later date.
I told him to do everything else. While he says the squeal may not improve or even get worse, at least the bulk of it is done.
Sigh. Then he shows me that my struts springs and linkets all need to be replaced. Knew that was coming, but that's a whole different ball game :(
Do you think I made proper decisions as of now? The prices all seem decent, and labor is $80 an hour, which is about right. I'm looking at $430 to replace all but the water pump.
And thanks for your help guys - very appreciative | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 12:57:35 PM | From Wikipedia
In the internal combustion engine application, the timing belt connects the crankshaft to the camshaft(s), which in turn controls the opening and closing of the engine's valves. A four-stroke engine requires that the valves open and close once every other turn of the crankshaft. The timing belt does this. It has custom teeth to turn the camshaft(s) synchronized with the crankshaft and is specifically designed for a particular engine. In some engine designs, the timing belt may also be used to drive other engine components such as the water pump and oil pump.
Timing belts are typically inaccessible and difficult to inspect. Engine manufacturers recommend replacement at specific intervals. The manufacturer may also recommend the replacement of other parts, such as the water pump, when the timing belt is replaced because the additional cost to replace the water pump is negligible compared to the cost of accessing the timing belt. Failure of the timing belt will seize the engine and often leads to damage that is uneconomic to repair.
Some indicators that the timing chain may need to be replaced include: reduced engine power and poor economy, intermittent back-fire, as well as a rattling noise from the front of the engine.[1] | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 1:57:24 PM | I don't know about where you live, but here in Michigan we have automotive classes at technology schools.
I recently took my car there and had new brakes put onto my car, the parts cost me $38.00. The school is not allowed to charge (by law) for the repairs.
Students do the work on the cars and the teacher oversees what they are doing. They will also diagnose your problem for free. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 6:53:23 PM |
MSG#1,April wrote:My 2001 ford focus/Took it to the mechanic who said it looked like a timing belt bearing/
Never heard of a "Timing Belt Bearing".There is an idler pully with a sealed bearing .(Timing belt tensioner pully).
April wrote:Hey, let's just order the whole timing belt kit/Is it reasonable to spend $700 max price including labor on a little squeaking noise?!
$700.00 is too much. $300.00 -$350.00 including parts/labor would be more like it.
I would make sure it's not the serpentine belt idler pully/alternator bearing/AC pump bearing. My guess would be the Idler pully on the serpentin belt($40-$60 total). But it's impossible to know with out being there to check it out in person. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 7:53:53 PM | A noise coming from a particular bearing does NOT necessarily mean that component that is making the noise is not functioning properly. I've had a noise in my truck for 4 years and still don't know where it's coming from. Some day it will break and I'll have it fixed.
A good mechanic would take a doctor's stethoscope to the problem area and pinpoint the proper diagnoses before changing anything. I know of a mechanic that lost his hearing in one ear using this method when the car back fired but that's the way to go. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:11:20 PM | On one side I agree with the mechanic about the water pump. IF it goes bad later it will cost a shitload to fix and since he's already in there now it might be a good idea to replace it. It would save you on labor later.
The other side is even IF you did replace the water pump now, there's no guarantee that the new one will last any longer than the one thats aleady on your car. Even brand new parts can take a shit at any time.
Yup, it sucks to be in that position.
I'd go with what you are doing now. Do it without the pump and let it ride. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 3:08:19 AM | I know little about the internal workings of cars. I had my what I assume to be timing belts and fan changed for $175 at the dealer. They showed me the cracked fan blades and nearly torn apart belt but my car still made squeaking noises when it was cold.
Btw are there specific car thermostats for certain makes? | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 4:00:31 AM |
While he says the squeal may not improve or even get worse,
Then he isn't fixing the problem. Theoretically, if a part is bad and it gets replaced, your car should return to 'normal'. My older sister had an issue with her car once and took it down to a mechanic. Cost her around $800 for whatever it was that was wrong. She goes and picks the car up and lo and behold it is doing the same thing that it was doing before. She took it to the guy that my dad uses and guess what? Not only did they not fix what they said they were going to fix...that wasn't even what was wrong! For $800 all they did was give her new spark plugs and wires. Nothing else had been replaced or repaired.
Now, I will say this...which this isn't an engine or tranny issue. But, on my car I have a tire that squeals sometimes. I've had it checked out by 5 different people and have had everything replaced once (tie rods, etc). But none of them have ever found anything wrong with it. Doesn't effect how it drives, etc. But that's a quirk about my car that I know about. I did have one guy one time try to tell me that he could fix it for around $500 (this was after getting a brake job done). Told him 'no thanks' b/c I know nothing is wrong with anything.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 9:17:02 AM | | sounds like a total rip to me, the mechanic should have a stethoscope just like a doctor and should be able to narrow down the squeak to one or 2 parts, not 5 or 6. get a 2nd opinion. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 9:52:33 AM | | An honest mechanic could make himself a fortune, just fixing things that are broken, and not making women feel like idiots. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:22:18 PM | | i do this repair for 350.00. the water pump is 50.00,belt is 35.00,1 gal. anti freeze and i change the oil and filter.most of the smaller fords have the timing belt tensioner made onto the water pump itself.unless you have the high performance twin cam,which this repair is about 100.00 more. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 2:26:05 PM | EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A DIY MANUAL FOR THEIR CAR whether it be chilton, haynes etc. it contains valuable information on how to make the car last as long as possible. step by step instructions on doing preventative maintenance and repairs.
when it comes to the timing belt: there are two types of engines: "clearance" and "non clearance engines" if your car has a "non clearance engine" -you should be sweating...
remove the timing belt cover and inspect the belt -any cracks or wear at all REPLACE IT IMMEDIATELY!. the manufacture has specific intervals when this belt is replaced. you should strictly follow the manufacture specs on replacement of the timing belt.
since the timing belt controls the timing of the valves/pistons, if the timing belt breaks the pistons will most likely slam into the valves -reducing the top end of your engine to twisted rubble. -costing you thousands to repair/replace the engine.
REPLACE THE TIMING BELT WHEN YOUR CARS ODOMETER HITS THE RECOMMENDED REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE... even if it looks ok. you should also replace tensioners, pullys, cogs, guides and anything else that looks worn, or is recommended by owners manual. -its a good idea to replace the water pump (if its driven by the timing belt) -if the water pump fails later -they have to go back in and do the same job over. -a new water pump shouldn't cost more than $75. if its being done with the timing belt.
fan belts aren't as big a problem, however if yours is old/cracked, you should replace it or at least buy and keep a spare in your trunk.  | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/6/2008 10:44:48 PM |
He scared me by saying get it done or come back in a cuople months maybe to have the bearings seize, break the timing belt and screw up your engine costing you thousands.
There-in lies the hook sweety. This is not only a mans way of manipulating another, but a mechanics sure fire way of manipulating many.
The odds of this happening to your engine, based on what you've told us, would seem low. This is how mechanics try to coerce customers, thereby insuring their own income.
Reminds me of the time I was supposed to replace a fuel pump for a customer, and the pump was $350- sum bucks, and the labor to drop the tank was around $200-...The repeat customer trusted me, brought me the truck and every bit of cash to do it. He was told he'd have his truck by Monday evening. This was Friday afternoon. I called him Saturday morning and told him to come and get it. He was delighted because he didn't have to bum a ride for the weekend etc. He was even more delighted to be handed back $481- bucks!! He couldn't believe it!! I told him their was nothing wrong with the pump, and his other mechanic misdiagnosed, and all I had to do was replace the relay. Part was $49- from the dealer, and I charged him $20- bucks for my time...
He's one of my best friends now...I've made many this way.
$80- hr is steep, this must be a dealer. If so, stay away. Dealer is only good for warranty repairs from purchase, and for parts unobtainable elsewhere.
As for suspension and springs??? Deal with firestone, Meineke, Goodyear, Sears and other major manufacturers.
Good Luck, take your time and make the right choices, trust no one in the shop, unless they nend over backwards for you.
P.S. Whatever *** 85032luck*** says, I also endorse.
God Bless,
let us know. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/7/2008 6:08:49 AM | He wanted to replace:
Water Pump
Timing Belt
Ilder
Tensioner
Pullys
While he suggested strongly to replace the water pump, as it was making some noise and the bearing should be replaced, I said no - there was no leak, and from what I have read - the chances that the water pump is f*cked is pretty low. He scared me by saying get it done or come back in a cuople months maybe to have the bearings seize, break the timing belt and screw up your engine costing you thousands. I said no, but I'll look into it at a later date.
You should have replaced the pump as well. It's easy to access at this point if everything else is out of the way. If you do have to replace it down the road, it's going to cost the same amount that you just paid so do take that into consideration. The timing belt will have to come off again so you're really not saving any money and you just basically will have had the same work done on the car twice. Other stuff you mentioned like the pulleys don't need replacement unless they are damaged. Tensioner yes, but the idlers only if they don't spin smoothly.
OP and others, a water pump that isn't leaking doesn't necessarily mean that it's still good. The impeller inside the pump that moves the water around can become corroded and rust away making it virtually useless. This is especially true if you've never replaced the coolant on a high mileage car. So if it's easy to access when other items are being replaced at the same time, why not just save yourself from future headaches and get it done then. The mechanic was being straight up when he recommended you do it.
My advice to you is to get a detailed estimate and then ask the guys for help. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/7/2008 7:11:16 AM | | Whoa!!....I've done all my own wrenching since I was a kid and I had to...then I learned to appreciate machinery, be careful what advice you get. At your age you ought to be taking these problems to your Dad and having him fix it for you. Eaglescry might be a bit overzealous to "help" but you need to find someone you trust and work with them. ....However...."As for suspension and springs???? Deal with firestone ( Why?, they make tires ) Meinke ( Why?? , they sell cheap mufflers and WANT to fix everything else but they only hire kids that go thru their own internal "training" programs and not a reputable trade school ) Goodyear ( Why?? another tire manufactor) Sears ( WHAT??..they sell everybody's seconds and make nothing ) and other major manufactors.......well, unless you need tires, none of those people ARE "major manufactors" | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:29:59 PM | Overzealous????
I am a mechanic, and have lived along the entire east coast. **OP** has a couple dozen good advice posts to go on, and seems intelligent enough to coo berate the similar.
As for the aforementioned repair facilities in my post??? All of which, and Sears and Kmart, have extensive mechanical training, some of which you must go away for a few weeks. What each endorses and exploits in "parts" means nada, for all of them are experienced with **OP**'s mechanical problem. They ALL have ASE class 1,2, and 3 on the roster. Even if they have to send to another county/town, they are reliable and honest..But with discretion to the individual themselves. But there again, I suppose it depends on what neck of the woods you're in... 
No reason to throw daggers **Moon**, I have nothing to gain, by simply sharing my professional insight, and spiritual demeanor.
Good Luck to **OP**!!
And Blessings to the rest as well....
Scott. | |
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| Help! Car question.
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:32:05 PM |
An honest mechanic could make himself a fortune, just fixing things that are broken, and not making women feel like idiots.
AMEN to that BROTHER!!!! Providing said mechanic didn't/doesn't take on a dishonest partner, then everyone gets screwed!!!  :cry:
Good, short post, and full of wisdom.
Scott. | |
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