| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:51:06 PM |
WASHINGTON (AFP) — US interrogators of "war on terror" detainees were instructed to destroy handwritten notes that might have exposed harsh or even illegal questioning methods at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a lawyer for one of the prisoners said Sunday.
"If handwritten notes were destroyed in accordance with the SOP, the government intentionally deprived Omar's lawyers of key evidence with which to challenge the reliability" of alleged confessions made to military interrogators, Kuebler said.
He cited in particular one passage of the directive to military interrogators stating that "this mission has legal and political issues that may lead to interrogators being called to testify."
"Keeping the number of documents with interrogation information to a minimum can minimize certain legal issues," the policy statement said, according to Kuebler.
Now, I thought that when you destroy evidence of a crime, that is a crime in and of itself.
Violation of the Federal Records Act, three years in prison.
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http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i-zyzl9b2BIadvTXq9nLKc4AePGg
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080608.wkhadr09/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080608.wkhadr09 | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:55:26 PM | The terrorists held in Gitmo should be thanking Allah they they didn't get shot on the battlefield as they could rightfully have been.
If they get any rights at all, it is more than they should expect, and far more than they would have been granted from their own government under the same circumstances. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 7:02:34 PM | | It's destruction of evidence, and what about innocent till proven guilty. These tactics of willful destruction of evidence is frightening. The first step in rewriting history is to destroy evidence. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 7:17:38 PM | first you have to be P R O V E N to be a terrorists,....
something that helps no one if ANY evidence is destroyed,....
I saw a doc u-movie yesterday that was about 3 British nationals who found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, having traveled to Afghanistan to be at the wedding of a friend also a British national,....they found themselves at Gitmo and telling the truth did nothing for them and only got them tortured,....or harshly questioned,...and imprisoned for more than 3 years,....
There is NO PRESUMPTION of GUILT!!!!
These kinds of comments get my ire up,....for many reasons, you want to bring the wold democracy but define that as what? Guilty until proven innocent???? And treat them as their dictators treated them????and define freedom as do as I tell you?????and rule with disrespect?????
you all need to define freedom, democracy and respect again because somewhere over the years the meaning has been distorted,.....
try leading by example,...but an example as you would want your soldiers treated???? | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 5 | |
| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 7:38:29 PM | | America has clearly lost the moral high road, if it has had it much since WWII. The activities starting with the invasion and occupation of Iraq, then the torture at AbuGhraib becoming known, and the entire existence of the Guantanamo Bay prison camp in and of itself, are all things that will remain permanent stains on the US's record. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 9:38:21 PM | I think this is too much left wing groupthink. Terrorists have no issue torturing us with their constant threats. I dont have any issues with torturing them to get information. And i really object to the notion that the invasion of Iraq is a moral low road. Saddam Hussein with his rape chambers and gassing of Kurds and torture of his people ranks MUCH higher on my scale of evilosity!
The US is standing up to a viscious gang of thugs. They have to use every method in the books to do so. If that means dripping cold water on some Talibans head for hours to find out where he got trained and who he knows, so be it. They go on and on about martyrdom; so heres their chance to be martyrs!
Love and compassion sometimes means carrying a big stick to protect the weak. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 8 | |
| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 9:50:33 PM | Msg 6, that looks like you are holding the US to the same morality code (or lack thereof) that terrorists and / or Arab despots adhere to. In other words, they do it, why should we take any kind of morally higher "road"? Terrorists also had no issue, clearly, with flying commercial jetliners into skyscrapers. If it would help break the will of a belligerent Muslim nation, let's use one that has a lot of skyscapers (Dubai in the UAE for instance .... pretending for a second that they were a belligerent nation ...and not an investor in the US economy), should the US likewise employ perhaps ex-military mercenaries to strong arm several Arab commercial planes all at once and slam them into the World Trade Center Dubai? After all, the terrorists had no problem with it, why should we, especially if it works?
Saddam Hussein tortured prisoners, why should the US be afraid to let their civilian contractors or CIA agents give the green light for torture to sadistic West Virginian simpletons (who will also conveniently take the fall for everyone else if pics of it ever leak out) ? The US was standing up to vicious gangs of thugs and their "evilosity" by employing vicious gangs of thugs (Blackwater, CACI, et.al.) and behaving in like manner. That's "24"-based foreign policy, and it looks bad enough when it's only fiction. In real life it looks like the bad guys have in fact "won" by succeeding in lowering the US to the point that it's willing to measure itself now by their moral standards. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 9:54:28 PM | I am posting this even though most political opinions I voice get deleted by those who do not agree with me. I guess some so called "patriots" do not believe in freedom of speech.
First and foremost, if no laws or rules were broken, they would not be concerned about what was in the notes.
Bottome line is , if we expect our men to be treated humanely in prison, we should do the same.
I have two huge problems with torture tactics used in interrogations. One being it is inhumane . Two being: There is always room for human error so a prisoner could be innocent and torturing them can cause them to say untrue things.
We are a great, powerful country and we need to set a good example. We need to hold true to our own standards. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/8/2008 10:01:59 PM | | Its funny to see so many pacifists trying to tell others what works in a violent environment....set a good example or turn the other cheek or just wimp out no matter what you call them its the same...extremists have no standards of behavior to hold yourself to some higher standard places you at a distinct disadvantage. Imagine a street fight, you limit yourself to the Queensberry rules while the other guy uses whatever he wants to cause you great bodily harm..how do you think that will work out? | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:29:28 AM | [quote/] Imagine a street fight, you limit yourself to the Queensberry rules while the other guy uses whatever he wants to cause you great bodily harm..how do you think that will work out?
We re not talking about street fights or how civilians react to one another. We are speaking about our country staying true to it's standards and rules.
It is wrong to blatantly violate human rights. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 12 | |
| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:36:24 AM | ^^ True.
Msg 10, if you want to make the inane comparison between nations' behaviour(s) and interactions and civilians reacting to one another, as msg 11 put it, then consider the notion of "pre-emptive strikes", or the "Bush doctrine". Imagine a man is positively convinced another man is going to strike him or his family. He believes this other man is armed to the teeth and is waiting to launch an all-out strike. He's even heard word-of-mouth rumours about it which he takes to be believable. So he decides to act pre-emptively in his family's self-defense and invades the neighbor's home, ties the family up, executes the man of the house and his eldest sons, then says he's not coming out of the house anytime soon or not until the situation calms down or stabilizes. In civilian terms this would be considered a home invasion / execution / hostage situation. Yet the aggressor insists that if he had not acted his own family and home would have been in similar danger. I doubt his argument about the defensive necessity of his strike will carry much weight with any judge in any court of law. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:06:36 AM | Its funny to see so many pacifists trying to tell others what works in a violent environment....set a good example or turn the other cheek or just wimp out no matter what you call them its the same...extremists have no standards of behavior to hold yourself to some higher standard places you at a distinct disadvantage. Imagine a street fight, you limit yourself to the Queensberry rules while the other guy uses whatever he wants to cause you great bodily harm..how do you think that will work out?
I don't know,....I wish we could ask Martin Luther King Jr,.....
where are the Martins of today?,.....we sure could use one or two,....
I do know this much when you are indistinguishable from your enemy,.....you have become him
however what does this have to do with destroying evidence? | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 11:28:24 AM | What ever happened to leading by example?
Do on to others as you would have them do on to you.
You know the golden rule and all those silly little things our parents tried to teach us when we were kids about being good people. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 12:40:38 PM | | When lawyers demand enormous needle-in-a-haystack-fishing expeditions, they aren't trying to find out the truth or serve justice, they're trying to intimidate their opponents, in this case the government and government employees, by threatening them with a never ending audit and a drawn out series of cross examinations, slander and innuendo that will cost millions and ruin careers. Under these circumstances, people are pretty well forced to be very careful about what they write down. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 12:56:30 PM | | It's not just what they write down, it's the suspected torture that's against the law. If we were an example for the rest of the world, a shining beacon on the hill, we'd have full disclosure. But no, these people are destroying evidence. Does one destroy evidence that would vindicate themselves from any suspicion of war crimes? | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:11:46 PM | Innocent until proven guilty? Give me a break.
These people are illegal combatants. They murdered, or attempted to murder American soldiers in an evil and nefarious way.
They should have been put up against a wall and shot on the battlefield.
I suppose you want to send lawyers to fight our wars instead of soldiers?
Or maybe a legal opinion should have to be issued by a court before every shot a soldier is permitted to shoot to make sure we don't violate the enemy's rights?
The seeds of our own destruction are being sewn by some of our own citizens. Who needs terrorist attacks?! | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:55:36 PM | Destroying that which you claim to defend is the destruction of all things equally. You neither gain victory nor suffer defeat. Only the commission of suicide by the least noticeable of options.
M.Good | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/9/2008 11:36:20 PM | | >LIKE THE RAIN:Lawyers should fight our wars.....it would be more humane......and it actually makes more sense than countless people dying........But we humans are too barbaric for that....:-( | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:24:39 AM |
The terrorists held in Gitmo should be thanking Allah they they didn't get shot on the battlefield as they could rightfully have been.
The First 2 Words is 'Where' that Falls Apart.
Without a TRIAL , Without ANY ... EVIDENCE ? The ...
"The Terrorists" can NOT be Proven , Deemed 'Accurate' OR _TRUE_
(Or...? is this 'One Of Those instances' - in which...)
"If THEY're Locked Up , There - in the First Place = Must Be GUILTY" ???
Surely there has NEVER Been Anyone
_Jailed
_Imprisoned
_Etc
Then, Later PROVEN to have Been ... INNOCENT (Of The Crimes They were ...)
???
If they get any rights at all, it is more than they should expect, and far more than they would have been granted from their own government under the same circumstances
AH, i See a 'Commonality' - in the 'speech,wording'
"THEY"
It is Always a Very Dangerous Line Of Thinking to Take. Far Too Easy to Remove One's SELF - From Any Situation , Scenario , with the 'Use Of'...THEY.
While I AM Concerned with/about 'The State Of The WHOLE World'. I find that Focusing my Energy on 'My Own Back Yard' (Before 'Poking around Others') is Prudent at the Present Moment.
'WE' All ... HAD ...
RIGHTS.
And? WE Used To ... EXPECT those Very RIGHTS.
To 'This/That' ^ : I could Only suggest the 'Revisiting' the POIGNIENT (sp? apologies)
'POEM'
"And Then They Came For Me" (May Not Be 'THE Name' - but...) | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:30:40 PM |
I suppose you want to send lawyers to fight our wars instead of soldiers?
If lawyers were forced to serve their country as soldiers, they might begin to appreciate the sacrifices and service of people who have to do a difficult job in the real world, often at the risk of their lives. I'm all for rounding them up and sending them over. Heck, make them walk the beat as a cop for a few years, or even teach school in some of the rougher neighbourhoods, and they might quickly lose their taste for frivolous complaints and vexatious litigation. | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:52:41 PM |
Innocent until proven guilty? Give me a break.
These people are illegal combatants. They murdered, or attempted to murder American soldiers in an evil and nefarious way.
Well maybe if we had gone in killed the people that were actually responsible for 9/11 and left we wouldn’t be having to deal with “illegal combatants” you know occupying a persons country tends to make them want to shoot at you.
We are still talking about Afghanistan right? You know the country that actually did have something to do with 9/11.
They should have been put up against a wall and shot on the battlefield.
Hey it worked for the Nazi’s so why not… oh wait… | |
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| Gitmo interrogators told to destroy handwritten notes
Posted: 6/10/2008 1:23:13 PM | Hay it is what it is. Time takes care of most issues. We just need to pertend we are holyer than now for a little while and we are doing all in the name of our children and the world will think we are the best. Just ask the indians- We invaded this country and we now own it. We are a aggressive nation--- need to quite pertenting. Just do it! | |
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