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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????      Home login  
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 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 1
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Well ihear alot of ppl tell me yes god is great and he loves you. he loves you...but how can anyone or anything love when you kill?

Is there a good reson for killing ?? no matter the reason or the situation ? is there a rule which says i am allowed to kill because of X factor. At what point do you step back and say Ummmm yea that was not a good enough reason. there is no good reason to kill a person let alone an entire village or society.

Now i ask you is there a reason you accept for his killings in the bible ???

I say no,
 bluezoot_riot
Joined: 5/21/2007
Msg: 2
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:12:37 AM
.
 AwP
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 3
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:12:01 AM
I think there can be morally good reasons to kill, though rare. Imagine if you will, someone about to shoot a little kid in the head, it's "good" to kill that person before they pull the trigger on the kid. Regarding the bible more specifically, from my understanding, "Thou shalt not kill" is really supposed to be translated as "Thou shalt not murder", which changes alot.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 4
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:54:47 AM
Ok well more less i was referring to the bible killings and if they were done with good reason. I mean yes if there is another way to get that man to put down his gun instead of shooting him. Yes if there is no reasoning with this man about shooting the kid i why not shoot to injure not kill if at all possible. Like shoot of his hand or something.

Anyways yes this is the main point...is killing in the bible jusitified ?


Ohh and how is this thread Redundant ?? i looked up the topic and found nothing...no one else is talking about this.....if there is show me link thx
 SR C
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 5
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:54:41 PM
If my life were in danger or someone i loved were in danger then yes... i think killing someone would be appropriate.

It's probably the only time i'd be able to live with myself..... knowing that it was either him/her or me/someone i loved.

I can't really think of any other situations but there could be.
 braduz
Joined: 1/9/2008
Msg: 6
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 4:54:54 PM
yes and anyone who disputes the context is mentally challenged. Everyone has a legal right to defend themselves with sensibly used self defence. It is down to the individuals judgement and moral fibre to decide when that limit is overstepped.

I have just got back from Afghanistan and the rules of engagement can be put into practice in everyday situations (without a machine gun) at home.
I had a man in my sights and he wasnt aware of it out there, he posed no threat ....until he pulled a pistol from his underarm...with this presenting a threat to a colleague of mine I had no choice but to open up on him. % men were firing indirectly on our location whilst on a routine patrol....they moved into a cave to take cover. So what was once a threat then ceased to be one...that didn't stop me from firing a 66 rocket into the cave off of my OWN judgement.

There always has and always will be a GOOD reason to kill someone. Fighting/soldiering and all the roles within have been the basis to any society since recorded history can record...our society has moved so fast people forget EVERYONES instincts. Kill or be killed. Get the raise or dont. Ask that girls you saw earlier out or not. Very few people in this world understand how to control their instincts...i.e. guncrime,stabbings bla bla bla. I fully understand that someone will say "but your a soldier" but the truth of the matter is , if you were in those shoes at the wrong time in the wrong place you would do what man as a race does best.....SURVIVE.
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 7
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 6:50:44 PM
There may never be a good excuse to killing.
You can always teleport em to dreamland!
But there is always a reason.

When someone is killed it's because of what lead up to it.
You can't change an action that is a proven faithful reaction.
Especially when all things proven to work are born from proving what didn't work.

How many of us would go back and kill our wicked great grandmother because she killed people.
You can't win that way. You can only look backward and learn from the past, in order to try and guide the final outcome.
 consigliere31
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 8
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 7:36:13 PM


Now i ask you is there a reason you accept for his killings in the bible ???

I say no,


OP

What we see, hear, touch, and experience in this present state of being, doesn't qualify us to make judgments against God who sees everything in the fulness of what will be.

And truthfully, when we get to the place where we see and experience the fulness of the plan that God has laid out, the judgments and opinions we make that are based on this present stage of humankind's development..... won't even be considered any longer.
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 9
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 8:41:23 PM
Perhaps being omnipotent requires a wee bit of discipline if you wish to be everlasting.
And being disciplined is knowing when not to break the rules.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 10
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/10/2008 9:16:53 PM
what do you do when left with the decision between ending a life or prolonging suffering?
 skypoetone
Joined: 3/24/2005
Msg: 11
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:32:22 AM
No, I do not believe it should be acceptable or appropriate to kill another human being. The bible has "God" being the X factor/decision maker for the taking of life... I'm a pacifist so don’t believe *Love* would do this or that mortal beings such as us should do it either. If violence teaches us anything, its how futile and self-destroying we are. There are morally good reasons to facilitating a death, such as a close relative wanting the dignity to pass on, but this is not the same thing.

I think the argument of protecting yourself or a loved one is weak, I would use only minimum force and look to effectively incapacitate - NOT kill.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 12
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:39:43 AM

I think the argument of protecting yourself or a loved one is weak, I would use only minimum force and look to effectively incapacitate - NOT kill


OK this is a good outlook.

I was thinking that to kill someone would it not be an evil act ? Sure someone is holding a gun to someone elses head. This person is doing an evil act, now should i be brought down to this level or should i look for a different approach?

In the bible Yes God created man and does that give him the right to kill man. Not only one man but many. Like a whole city. Now picture someone nowadays destroying a whole village could they just say well they were Living in Sin so they deserved it. They were not living up to standards. So basicly you generalized that whole City.


What about the killing of every 1st born? The childern who lived without Sin....they are innocent. Is there a good reason to kill a child??
 consigliere31
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 13
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:02:53 AM

Perhaps being omnipotent requires a wee bit of discipline if you wish to be everlasting.
And being disciplined is knowing when not to break the rules.


The rules were meant to be broken....Moses was the first to break them by smashing them into the rocks and destroying them completely...Of course that is a hidden shadow of how temporary the law was meant to be. Then God ordered Moses and Israel to break the commandments soon afterwards .............. The law in itself was only a temporary dispensation and wasn't meant to be eternal laws applying to God or anyone else.

Because,, the only nation or group of people who was ever placed under these regulations was the nation of Israel. They simply do not apply to anyone else. Of course the rules of the government where you live do apply, and if the governing law says murder is illegal, then that is who you are subject to follow...and it has nothing to do with God or the commandments He gave to Israel.
 Guy Named Ray
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 14
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:25:13 AM
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?
No, Only consequences.

"The rules were meant to be broken....Moses was the first to break them by smashing them into the rocks and destroying them completely... "

I thought breaking a rule meant doing what the law prohibited or not doing what it required.
I didn't know a law could be broken by destroying what the law was written on.
 David3634955
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 15
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:25:38 AM
The biblical examples of murder that I have read are sometimes admittedly things I believe to be immoral and wrong.

Example: Offering to let a tribe join yours in return for them circumcising themselves, and waiting until they have and killing them all while they are defenseless from the pain. That's just wrong, and is one of the reasons I don't identify with Judeo-Christian values. You can't pick and choose your opportunities to kill.

~ David
 skypoetone
Joined: 3/24/2005
Msg: 16
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:28:02 AM
Whatever the rationale the biblical God had (and I do not pretend to understand it nor would I ever accept) for ordering and/or presiding over killings, my answer would be the same... NO, there is NEVER a good reason to take lives and yes, you are correct OP, children and the unborn ARE ALWAYS innocent.
 consigliere31
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 17
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:58:29 AM
"The rules were meant to be broken....Moses was the first to break them by smashing them into the rocks and destroying them completely... "



I thought breaking a rule meant doing what the law prohibited or not doing what it required.
I didn't know a law could be broken by destroying what the law was written on.


We learn something new every day then!

The point is the entirety of the law was destroyed by Moses before it was even given to the people of Israel.....some may think Moses was merely acting out of his emotions and that is all we can understand, but I see a hidden meaning here. The laws were written on stones(signifying thier permanence, while Moses destroying them, signifies the temporary essence ofthe law and its ability to be destroyed.



The 6th Commandment: Not Killing
Look at the 6th Commandment: “Thou shalt not kill.” 5 It is a beautiful command. It is something that you and I ought to heed to this very day. But do you know something? We still do not know by those two Hebrew and four English words what is meant by “Thou shalt not kill.” We need to have interpretation given somewhere else. The command is deficient of itself. We need other teachings of God to inform us what He means by “do not kill.”

The 6th Commandment of the Decalogue is very decisive in its statement. It said that no one was to kill. Should there be any argument over the matter? The statement is plain and simply put. But is it? In fact, there have always been problems with the 6th Commandment. When the 6th Commandment said not to kill, does it mean not to kill anything at all?

All right, what about killing a tree? If you cut down a tree, that is killing it. It means you could not even step on an ant, I guess because that would be killing. Obviously we are getting silly here, but if you do not have interpretation you cannot know what it means.

And what about killing an animal for food or sacrifice? True, these questions may seem ridiculous, but I have known several people who have asked those very questions — and they were serious! God does not mean not to kill animals because you have to eat. Of course, we can know that the command was not intended to include animals because they were allowed to be killed. Some people do not feel you should even do that (1 Timothy 4:3–4).

“If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. …

If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.”

Exodus 21:28–32

Humans Could Be Killed
Of course people say, that is absurd, it means do not kill man. That is true; so we are getting closer to the meaning. What does it mean, do not kill man? In the body of interpretation coming along in Exodus chapter 21, it says if any man kills another person, he himself shall be executed (Exodus 21:12). Capital punishment is throughout the Bible, so obviously if you have laws saying to kill someone if they have committed a capital crime, when it says “do not kill,” it could not mean death as legal punishment.

The 6th Commandment allowed murderers (Exodus 21:12), witches (22:18), sodomites (22:19), and idolaters (22:20) to be judged for these capital crimes. All such people could be legally executed — and the 6th Commandment was not violated.

In the Old Testament up to the coming of Christ it was quite proper for Israel to go to war and kill people. That was not a violation of this 6th Commandment at all. Israel was not only allowed, but they were commanded by God to wage war against other nations and this meant the killing of people (Deuteronomy 20:10–18). Specifically in the time of Joshua, God told the Israelites to go into the land of Canaan and to slaughter all the people that were there and take over their land. When they went to war — and God commanded them to do so — they killed people! 6

The Commandment said they were not supposed to kill, but God ordered them to kill. Well, this can be answered very carefully and quickly by saying that the phrase really means (and this is what the Jews have always interpreted it to mean), “Thou shalt not murder.” Clearly, that is really what it means. Now when you say “murder” it means to kill illegally. 7 You must have interpretation on all of these things or else you are in trouble.

I understand the principle, and that is proper if you apply it correctly. Whether it should be applied in this case or not is a matter of opinion. All I am saying is that the Ten Commandments are full and replete and beautiful, but they are deficient because when it says “Thou shalt not kill” because from time to time the understanding and meaning may change. This shows that the 6th Commandment of itself was meaningless unless other laws define it. The commands of the Decalogue are not elaborate enough to explain what they mean.

For many of our Christian friends today, some feel they should not go to war at all. I hate war. I do not want to go to war. I do not want to kill anybody by any means, but you know that. The thing is that many of our Christian friends say, well, we should be pacifists. We should not kill at all. Why do they say it? It says in the Bible “Thou shalt not kill.” They are not interpreting it correctly, or if they are, what they are doing is taking sections out of the Bible that might apply, coming out of the Sermon on the Mount, and avoid all the other things about killing a criminal who has killed somebody else, or going to war if God ordains it. What they say is, well, that was for that time. For this time now we have something different.

For our friends who believe that the Ten Commandments are still in force today, it would seem to me that God is the one who must interpret what He means by these things.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 18
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:03:12 AM
Thank you....

Ok well then how can GOD say he loves us if he kills childern ? what would you do to someone now if they had killed childern they way it was done ???

Sure who cares it was so long ago, it does not change the fact that they were murdered.

So is this God not a God of war not a God of love?

What really is the differnce between G Bush killing childern in Iraq as to God killing the childern in Egypt to release the Jews ?
 consigliere31
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 19
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:20:35 AM

What really is the differnce between G Bush killing childern in Iraq as to God killing the childern in Egypt to release the Jews ?


The motive!

By the looks of the price of gas today, I am thinking that the war for oil is about selfishness, while releasing the children of Israel from being tortured and beaten as slaves by Pharoah was done out of love and for the purpose of displaying justice and mercy.

You got your characters misplaced, imo George Bush is more like the Pharoah and is motivared by selfishness.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 20
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:05:32 AM
Well no matter what the motive killing childern is still killing childern. The death cannot be justified by any means.
 Guy Named Ray
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 21
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:41:56 AM
The commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill applied only to the Israelites.
It was given to keep the Israelites from killing each other when
the National of Israel was growing and any death meant less children.
If you really read the commandments you will see that all of them applied
only to Israel as did the rest of the Old Testament.

When Jesus came, he came not to destroy the law, which puts to rest the theory that Moses destroyed it, but to fulfill the law. The law stated it would end when it was fulfilled. The Jewish leaders knew this and it was one of the main reason they wanted to get rid of Jesus. Call it job security.
 Guy Named Ray
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 22
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:56:54 PM

What really is the differnce between G Bush killing childern in Iraq as to God killing the childern in Egypt to release the Jews ?
The motive! . . . while releasing the children of Israel from being tortured and beaten as slaves by Pharoah was done out of love and for the purpose of displaying justice and mercy.

Killing the children of Eqypt was done out of love?
I would hate to think what god does to people he doesn't like.
I also don't think the Egyptians would call it justice and mercy while they heard the wailing of their dying children..
 consigliere31
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 23
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IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:01:08 PM


Killing the children of Eqypt was done out of love?
I would hate to think what god does to people he doesn't like.
I also don't think the Egyptians would call it justice and mercy while they heard the wailing of their dying children..


Justice and judgement was delivered to the Egyptians, and this laid the groundwork for many events that would usher in the Messiah and mercy that would be unlimited.....

Exodus 1:22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: "Every boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live."

!1 Corinthians 10:1-11
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

When considering the promise given to Abraham, and the plight of the Israelites from bondage, to deliverance, to battling the armies that stood in the way of thier inheritance of the promised land....these are all shadows of a greater spiritual reality that the christian faces through thier own journey to the spiritual sabbath rest of God in Christ. The natural is first and then the Spiritual. As a christian we are first called out, delivered from the bondage of darkness, and then we are led into spiritual warfare against everything that stands between us and our spiritual sabbath rest in God.
 Guy Named Ray
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 24
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:57:45 PM
Exodus 1:22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: "Every boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live."

It's one thing when a bad guy (Pharaoh) does evil things.
HE should be punished, not innocent children.

But why does a good guy kill innocent children and then tell the world he did it out of love?

Edit: So only gods can kill innocent children?

 Fleur_de_Lis
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 25
IS THERE EVER A GOOD REASON TO KILL ?????
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:04:15 PM
I don't like the thought of children dying but God gave us life and he can take it away



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